How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans low-life, idiotic scum started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

That's probably a better descriptor to use.  JMO.

 

We also should probably be a little more hesitant in spreading these stories after the Sheppers episode.

I've just arranged to briefly meet them before they leave to go back home so I can shake their hands. I'm no ambassador for the city, but I will apologize for the problems they had and find out if they were actually attacked or what.

How completely embarrassing for our city.

 

So, these guys: http://www.cleveland.com/lakewood/index.ssf/2013/08/army_veterans_hike_90_miles_to.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

hiked 90 miles since Tuesday to raise awareness about military suicide rates, which are very high.

 

I went to their FB page to see how they are doing - their feet are very messed up of course, but they made it to the city last night and were going to Soldiers & Sailors' this morning.

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

On the good side, the Marriott donated them their room for the night and someone else has stepped up to drive them home, but this kind of thing is very disappointing for me to read.

 

What is the crime?  In the sense of this thread what crime was committed??  Also, who cares what alleged race/ethnicity of the people were who harassed them?  Race/ethnicity is not important, besides the poster do not mention the ethnicity or color of the person(s) only that they are "Drunk" 

 

I This posts seem more appropriate for urbanbar or off topic as no "crime" was committed.

^If they did get jumped, that would be criminal assault.  I don't do FB, so I can't read whatever is on there.

^If they did get jumped, that would be criminal assault.  I don't do FB, so I can't read whatever is on there.

 

Threats might be harassment as well.

 

I flat guarantee if someone did that to black civil rights marchers a way would be found to charge them.

^Does every issue of discussion boil down to race for you?

^If they did get jumped, that would be criminal assault.  I don't do FB, so I can't read whatever is on there.

I read the FB page, which is why I posted what I did.

^If they did get jumped, that would be criminal assault.  I don't do FB, so I can't read whatever is on there.

 

Threats might be harassment as well.

 

I flat guarantee if someone did that to black civil rights marchers a way would be found to charge them.

How do you, the owner of the facebook page posted or the person that posted here, RNR, know without a reasonable doubt, the alleged are "black"?  Again, what does race have to do with this?

 

Please use this as a learning experience, just because a person is brown, that does not mean they are Black/African American.

 

That civil rights statement is way out of context.

 

I'm going to ask that we all back off the last few posts of this thread as I think there is a lot missing from the story, based on what I read on FB.

I talked to them. Two males came over to them and verbally assaulted them and made them both feel threatened enough that they had their hands on their knives. But they were not physically assaulted. I think it's completely horrible that this happened. The guys who were talking smack said something about how the flag is a symbol of black slavery and a lot of other epithets I won't type out here.

 

I'm not going to entertain MTS by taking his bait.

I talked to them. Two males came over to them and verbally assaulted them and made them both feel threatened enough that they had their hands on their knives. But they were not physically assaulted. I think it's completely horrible that this happened. The guys who were talking smack said something about how the flag is a symbol of black slavery and a lot of other epithets I won't type out here.

 

I'm not going to entertain MTS by taking his bait.

Again, you posted about race, what does race have to do with the end result of them being verbally assaulted?  If anyone made this about race, you did.

 

Also, if what you say is true, why is it not on their facebook page?

 

I'll ask again, just because they made a comment about slavery does that mean they are black?  Yes or no?

So they came accross two idiots and got into a verbal confrontation.  Sad, but not anywhere near the initial post of getting jumped by a "group of African-Americans".  The OP should be modified, especially with the way false rumors like this spread like wildfire on the internet.  Before you know it, the Drudge Report will have a headline "Travel Alert: Local Cleveland Woman Confirms Flag Bearing Vets Beat to a Pulp By Roving Group of Black Thugs"

I talked to them. Two males came over to them and verbally assaulted them and made them both feel threatened enough that they had their hands on their knives. But they were not physically assaulted. I think it's completely horrible that this happened. The guys who were talking smack said something about how the flag is a symbol of black slavery and a lot of other epithets I won't type out here.

 

I'm not going to entertain MTS by taking his bait.

 

They did leave the race of the thugs off the Facebook page, that's true.  But according to R&R the assumptions were correct, and their comments "made it about race".

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if the Patriot Guard (the guys who drown out Westboro at military funerals) drive down this street flags flying.  Let's see if these guys have anything to say....

I talked to them. Two males came over to them and verbally assaulted them and made them both feel threatened enough that they had their hands on their knives. But they were not physically assaulted. I think it's completely horrible that this happened. The guys who were talking smack said something about how the flag is a symbol of black slavery and a lot of other epithets I won't type out here.

 

I'm not going to entertain MTS by taking his bait.

 

They did leave the race of the thugs off the Facebook page, that's true.  But according to R&R the assumptions were correct, and their comments "made it about race".

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if the Patriot Guard (the guys who drown out Westboro at military funerals) drive down this street flags flying.  Let's see if these guys have anything to say....

 

No, no, no.  RnR didn't have to post what she wrote, since she was not a party to it.  She wrote, "They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at....."

 

She could have just said, a group of "people", "men", "guys".  She could have edited herself, she specifically brought race into this.  PERIOD! 

 

Just by looking at someone you cannot tell their race/ethnicity.  Just because someone makes a statement, it is not indicative of their race, ethnicity, religion or sexuality.

 

The Patriot Guard has nothing to do with this, just like race has nothing to do with this.

It was black people making comments about slavery and "their" neighborhoods...seems that there was a racial component to this incident.  Maybe RnR shouldn't have speculated, but it turns out that her speculation was correct. For as much shit Cincinnati gets for race relations, it doesn't seem that the situation in Cleveland is much better. 

It was black people making comments about slavery and "their" neighborhoods...seems that there was a racial component to this incident.  Maybe RnR shouldn't have speculated, but it turns out that her speculation was correct. For as much sh!t Cincinnati gets for race relations, it doesn't seem that the situation in Cleveland is much better. 

 

Prove to me they were black.

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

Okay. I live in the building at Detroit/W28 and saw the people who harassed them with my own eyes, while they were harassing them. It was a group of two African-American males and five AA females. What I saw was the guys doing the harassing and the girls just milling about uncertainly. They said, among other things, "f$&k you, bitches. Get the f$&k out! f$&k! Bitch!" and something like "f$&k your flag" several times. One of them, shirtless, jumped out into the street several times and flipped the bird at them several times, making 'come and get it' motions. This was while they were still pretty far up the street, so he wasn't right in their face. I didn't hear any racial epithets, but I only started paying attention after it was mostly over. It was mostly two guys, who were with about five or six girls who basically did nothing. One of the girls ran across the street like she was afraid at one point, and one of the guys ran over and brought her back. They then cleared off shortly before the two soldiers actually arrived.

 

The two guys barely reacted, other than looking really, really, tired and dejected.

 

For those of you who are monumentally offended by the mention of their race, get over it. Nobody even suggested through innuendo any conclusions to be drawn from the fact they were black. There are no conclusions. There are just really sad facts. Regardless of their race, they're cowardly punks and I regret not calling the police just for the sake of making a report because I wasn't sure what was happening until it was almost over.

 

If someone links their facebook page for me, I'll let them know I witnessed it so I can add to any report they made. (done)

It was black people making comments about slavery and "their" neighborhoods...seems that there was a racial component to this incident.  Maybe RnR shouldn't have speculated, but it turns out that her speculation was correct. For as much sh!t Cincinnati gets for race relations, it doesn't seem that the situation in Cleveland is much better. 

 

Prove to me they were black.

 

See above. They were. I'll swear on whatever text you wish.

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

 

They won't do a damn thing unless and until they get embarrassed, nationally.  They lack the If this incident doesn't cause this, it will take someone "really getting hurt" to make that happen.

 

Jackson's an improvement over Calamity Jane in many ways, but willingness to take on problem areas isn't one of them.  He lacks the spine to do so.

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

 

Probably from Lakeview, but hard to tell for sure. I don't think they had a car.

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

Now we're assuming where the people live?  Do you have any proof the people mentioned lived here.

 

Come on folks. 

It was black people making comments about slavery and "their" neighborhoods...seems that there was a racial component to this incident.  Maybe RnR shouldn't have speculated, but it turns out that her speculation was correct. For as much sh!t Cincinnati gets for race relations, it doesn't seem that the situation in Cleveland is much better. 

 

Prove to me they were black.

 

See above. They were. I'll swear on whatever text you wish.

You witnessed this.  Period.  Up until now it's be speculation.  Thanks.

And just so that this is on-topic, the crime that could be complained-of would be Disorderly Conduct (ORC 2917.11) or, depending on what I did *not* witness, Menacing (ORC 2903.22). I've contacted them and if they reported it, I will make a statement for them. I won't belatedly report it myself, but I should have done it immediately.

What is the yellow flag the one on the right is carrying in the cleveland.com link?

It's the 'Don't Tread On Me' flag with the coiled snake. The Gadsden Flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

It's the 'Don't Tread On Me' flag with the coiled snake. The Gadsden Flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

 

Interesting.  That's a Tea Party symbol, these days. 

 

Of course, the harrasser-punks probably mistook it for something Confederate. 

 

Who's the councilman over there?

Archangel, thank you. Their FB page is Ruck For Warriors.

It's the 'Don't Tread On Me' flag with the coiled snake. The Gadsden Flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

 

"In addition, since the first Patriot Day on September 11, 2002, which commemorates the lives lost in the September 11 attacks, The rattlesnake from the flag is also shown on the U.S. Army's Drill Sergeant Identification Badge."

I only asked because there were two flags and all of the comments seem to represent that the harrasers were shouting "f%ck your flag" (in the singular).  Unfortunately, the Gaddsen Flag, which use to stand for American unity, is now used to symbolize American division/partinsanship (ever since it becoming the de facto symbol of the Tea Party in 2009/2010), and a lot of people assign a meaning similar to that of the Confederate Flag.... both those flying the flag and those shaking their heads at it. 

 

Speculation, for sure..... but as long as we're speculating.....

The first guy had the US flag. The second guy had the Gadsden. They were shouting at both of them. This was not a political statement, it was "wow I'm apparently drunk and clearly stupid and gonna take my shirt off, let's look like awesome tough guys in front of our unaccountably large group of girls who are, apparently for lack of better options, forced to spend Thursday night with us."

Good.  Then it had nothing to do with race, politics, etc.  Just a couple of drunk a%%holes (which come in all shapes and colors) trying to act tough. 

Good.  Then it had nothing to do with race, politics, etc.  Just a couple of drunk a%%holes (which come in all shapes and colors) trying to act tough. 

 

But using racially charged rhetoric.  Would you give a couple drunk rednecks in Streetstucky the same benefit of the doubt?

It would depend on what color hair the rednecks had...

 

But seriously, I am not giving anyone any benefit of the doubt.  I just was going by our only eye-witness who has commented on this site (which appears to be the only one bothering to make a story out of the racial angle of it).

 

Threats might be harassment as well.

 

I flat guarantee if someone did that to black civil rights marchers a way would be found to charge them.

 

 

 

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

Now we're assuming where the people live?  Do you have any proof the people mentioned lived here.

 

Come on folks. 

 

Come on folks is right.  Are you living in another county?  Ask anyone who lives or owns a business in this area.  The troublemakers come from Lakeview Terrace, up 28th, then they scurry back in there.  I live nearby and drive through here everyday.  Like I said, this is the 4th or 5th incident like this in the last year.  Call it speculation, but it's pretty clear speculation.  The crime, drugs, & violence surrounding that site is off the chart

 

How terrible for our city that these two veterans were harrassed when they finally got to cleveland. They were on W 28th and Detroit and a group of African-Americans started yelling at them and harrassing them and talking smack about the flag and saying they were going to kick their asses if they ever walked through their neighborhood again. They then reported "we just got jumped," but I'm not sure of the details.

 

 

That's the 4th or 5th similar type of thing I've heard of occurring at 28th & Detroit in the last year.  It's gang/thugs/punks coming out of Lakeview Terrace.  The City better get control of that area soon before someone really gets hurt.

Now we're assuming where the people live?  Do you have any proof the people mentioned lived here.

 

Come on folks. 

 

Come on folks is right.  Are you living in another county?  Ask anyone who lives or owns a business in this area.  The troublemakers come from Lakeview Terrace, up 28th, then they scurry back in there.  I live nearby and drive through here everyday.  Like I said, this is the 4th or 5th incident like this in the last year.  Call it speculation, but it's pretty clear speculation.  The crime, drugs, & violence surrounding that site is off the chart

Speculation. 

This isn't a court, and it isn't on the local residents to prove beyond a reasonable doubt where someone lives when suggesting an area may need additional police resources. The occurrence of an incident, or multiple incidents, and circumstantial knowledge of a pattern of incidents in a particular area, is enough. Enough to discuss.

 

I concur with gottaplan based on my experiences living one block from the area in question, discussing other incidents with other residents of this building, and having lived in Ohio City for the last 3 years. That's enough for a casual message board discussion - we're not going to produce video and statistical analyses. I provided facts as a beginning because it happened and I found it was obviously relevant. They are the beginning, but not the end, of the 'Crime and Safety Discussion'.

This isn't a court, and it isn't on the local residents to prove beyond a reasonable doubt where someone lives when suggesting an area may need additional police resources. The occurrence of an incident, or multiple incidents, and circumstantial knowledge of a pattern of incidents in a particular area, is enough. Enough to discuss.

 

I concur with gottaplan based on my experiences living one block from the area in question, discussing other incidents with other residents of this building, and having lived in Ohio City for the last 3 years. That's enough for a casual message board discussion - we're not going to produce video and statistical analyses. I provided facts as a beginning because it happened and I found it was obviously relevant. They are the beginning, but not the end, of the 'Crime and Safety Discussion'.

 

I had a good friend who lived in the Knitting Mills who said they constantly had problems with car break-ins and even direct armed robberies in and around their parking.  The suspects were never seen driving away--always leaving on foot.

I hate speculation as much as anyone here, but having been at that intersection a fair amount, I think it's pretty safe to say that 99% of the trouble comes to the corner store from the other side of the bridge.

It's pretty obvious when you spend even a little time there.  In fact, someone would have to be being willfully obtuse or maybe stupid not to see it.

Is Lakeview Terrace the same thing as Lakeview Estates?  Is the tower and the cluster of lower-rise building all part of the same projects?

This isn't a court, and it isn't on the local residents to prove beyond a reasonable doubt where someone lives when suggesting an area may need additional police resources. The occurrence of an incident, or multiple incidents, and circumstantial knowledge of a pattern of incidents in a particular area, is enough. Enough to discuss.

 

I concur with gottaplan based on my experiences living one block from the area in question, discussing other incidents with other residents of this building, and having lived in Ohio City for the last 3 years. That's enough for a casual message board discussion - we're not going to produce video and statistical analyses. I provided facts as a beginning because it happened and I found it was obviously relevant. They are the beginning, but not the end, of the 'Crime and Safety Discussion'.

 

I had a good friend who lived in the Knitting Mills who said they constantly had problems with car break-ins and even direct armed robberies in and around their parking.  The suspects were never seen driving away--always leaving on foot.

 

Other residents of FKMB have told me the same thing. Thankfully, nothing has happened to me, but I'm basically never on the street after midnight and we have gated parking - have never seen anything happen to cars/things inside the gates.

 

Is Lakeview Terrace the same thing as Lakeview Estates?  Is the tower and the cluster of lower-rise building all part of the same projects?

 

I think so - Lakeview Tower is the tall apartment building, Lakeview Terrace is the 2-3 blocks worth of low-rise old brick buildings. I don't know if they're the same administrative unit for CMHA or if they house different populations (like Riverview on W.25th is targeted towards older people), but they are right on top of each other. Lakeview Terrace (the tall building) is where we vote for this precinct. It's very densely populated and I've always felt it was a bizarre place to put CMHA properties, it's terribly isolated and not near anything other than the Spectrum of Supportive Services center that is next to our building on Detroit, but I don't know what the area was like when they were first built. You can check out the various CMHA properties here: http://www.cmha.net/tours/index.aspx, and see the relevant crime statistics here: http://www.cmha.net/aboutus/docs/CMHAPDAnnualReport2012.pdf

^It's all the same.  The tower is for elderly, the estates are family units.  Some are 3-4 bedroom units, lots of teenagers, which is where the trouble begins.  That complex was built back in the 1930's...  the tower was added in the 70's I think

Cleveland police investigate after man found dead in Ohio City

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland police are investigating a homicide after a male was found dead in the backseat of a vehicle in the Ohio City neighborhood.

 

Officers located the body at about 12:00 a.m. Wednesday on W. 44th Street near John Avenue. The victim was taken to the Cuyahoga County medical examiner for identification, authorities said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/08/cleveland_police_investigate_a.html

 

 

Reward for information in downtown Cleveland murder of mother of four Aliza Sherman now at $50,000

CLEVELAND - The daughter of murder victim Aliza Sherman announced Tuesday that the reward for information leading to an arrest is now up to $50,000.

“My mother deserves justice and the monsters who killed her must be found and held accountable,” Jennifer Sherman said.

Prior to Tuesday’s announcement, the reward, offered through Cuyahoga County Crime Stoppers, was $25,000.

 

“We’re still actively investigating the case,” said Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the Cleveland Police.

Tomba said they haven’t received any credible leads in the case, but he’s hopeful that the bigger reward will help investigators make progress.

 

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/Reward-for-information-in-downtown-Cleveland-murder-of-mother-of-four-Aliza-Sherman-now-at-50000#ixzz2dJDZ7OM6

 

Heinous heinous heinous.  I hope they find these little fu&%ers!

 

Man Said He Was Attacked ‘Because I Am Gay’

 

Posted on: 9:21 pm, September 2, 2013, by Emily Valdez

 

CLEVELAND– A mob of young men with their faces covered attacked and beat a man, who is gay, as he walked up to a gay bar on Cleveland’s west side, Saturday night.

 

“I told them I didn’t have anything and they just surrounded me. They were everywhere, and just started beating me,” said Jared Fox, 26, who has a black eye, along with bruises and abrasions all over his head from a brutal beating Saturday about 11 p.m. outside of Cocktails bar, a gay bar on West 93rd Street and Detroit Ave. on Cleveland’s west side.

 

Cleveland police are investigating the beating as a robbery and hate crime.

 

 

 

http://fox8.com/2013/09/02/man-said-he-was-attacked-because-i-am-gay/

Heinous heinous heinous.  I hope they find these little fu&%ers!

 

Man Said He Was Attacked ‘Because I Am Gay’

 

Posted on: 9:21 pm, September 2, 2013, by Emily Valdez

 

CLEVELAND– A mob of young men with their faces covered attacked and beat a man, who is gay, as he walked up to a gay bar on Cleveland’s west side, Saturday night.

 

“I told them I didn’t have anything and they just surrounded me. They were everywhere, and just started beating me,” said Jared Fox, 26, who has a black eye, along with bruises and abrasions all over his head from a brutal beating Saturday about 11 p.m. outside of Cocktails bar, a gay bar on West 93rd Street and Detroit Ave. on Cleveland’s west side.

 

Cleveland police are investigating the beating as a robbery and hate crime.

 

 

 

http://fox8.com/2013/09/02/man-said-he-was-attacked-because-i-am-gay/

 

I posted this one in the gay rights thread as well.

 

Quite bluntly, the pictures make the nature of the "mob" clear.  He might have been jumped because he is gay, because he's white, because he was perceived as an easy target, or all of the above.

 

Does it really matter?  These are people who need removed from the streets.

I saw this last night also.  The article linked at WKYC asks for help identifying the young men but offers no description even though the video clearly shows the attackers were black.  This is a bad neighborhood and it's not the first time something like this happened.  The club should have more security outside & do more to keep the sidewalks safe for patrons whether they are gay/straight, etc.  Seems like a surprisingly apathetic response from the police too.

It's a shame that the cops did not respond earlier.

 

These kids make me sick running in packs and attacking easy targets.  They are dangerous because they have nothing to lose.

 

 

I saw this last night also.  The article linked at WKYC asks for help identifying the young men but offers no description even though the video clearly shows the attackers were black.  This is a bad neighborhood and it's not the first time something like this happened.  The club should have more security outside & do more to keep the sidewalks safe for patrons whether they are gay/straight, etc.  Seems like a surprisingly apathetic response from the police too.

 

Hell, the councilman on the east side had trouble getting a thugpack rousted from near his house.  There aren't enough cops to simply "show the flag" when no crime has yet been committed.  Throw in the possibility that agitators make a big deal out of it.  Right now CPD does not feel that the powers that be have their back.

 

I'd say the bar needs security outside.  Even though I strongly advocate anyone who might be a special target of these types of people get a carry permit, you can't carry into a liquor establishment unless you refrain from drinking alcohol. 

On a more positive note my buddy saw a drug bust by Metroparks rangers using an undercover and uniformed officers at Edgewater on Monday and on Saturday I saw 4 Park Rangers who had a car pulled over on West Blvd. between Clifton and Baltic.

 

Did I say more positive?  Umm....

 

 

I feel really bad for the victim and there is no excuse for that.  Cudell is a giant cespool, and there needs to be more leadership and law enforcement.  That being said, i live about a mile from there and you have to put yourself in good situations.  Thats not the optimal place you want to be at 12 AM.  Im glad he wasnt killed.