^^ The problem is that unlike you, the prosecutor has to actually prove their case instead of just making assertions unsupported by fact.

This is a pretty moving article. And the very brief comments about Dr. Sherman (ask anyone in Cleveland's medical community for their opinion of his "character") and the older brother Joshua (whom I've only met a few times and don't have much of an impression either way) do somewhat stand out.

 

 

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local/article_d16f0154-2613-11e3-8a89-0019bb2963f4.html

 

‘I just couldn’t stop screaming'

 

 

According to Facebook's Ohio City Crime watch, there were bullets flying at 32nd and Whitman last night...right near Momocho.  I still cant understand how this can happen.  Ohio City, while a great neighborhood still has ridiculous issues that need to be resolved in terms of crime.  When is local leadership going to start coming up with solutions?

According to Facebook's Ohio City Crime watch, there were bullets flying at 32nd and Whitman last night...right near Momocho.  I still cant understand how this can happen.  Ohio City, while a great neighborhood still has ridiculous issues that need to be resolved in terms of crime.  When is local leadership going to start coming up with solutions?

 

Ohio City's growth & development progress has created a significant wealth disparity, placing "haves" & "have nots" in close proximity to one another.  Would take some major policing and officers on the street to stop the random street violence and round up the troublemakers

According to Facebook's Ohio City Crime watch, there were bullets flying at 32nd and Whitman last night...right near Momocho.  I still cant understand how this can happen.  Ohio City, while a great neighborhood still has ridiculous issues that need to be resolved in terms of crime.  When is local leadership going to start coming up with solutions?

 

Ohio City's growth & development progress has created a significant wealth disparity, placing "haves" & "have nots" in close proximity to one another.  Would take some major policing and officers on the street to stop the random street violence and round up the troublemakers

 

Ohio City is also home to or surrounded by some of the roughest public housing, such as Lakeview Estates, transitional housing, homeless shelters, and is bordered by some rough areas. It is probably viewed as a hangout too which draws people in looking for trouble.

 

University Circle probably doesn't see this to the same extent, although bordered by some very rough areas, because it is not viewed as much of a place to hangout to people looking for trouble. Additionally University Circle is served by several police forces, patrolling on foot, bike, car, and those strange little vehicle things.

 

I agree with a statement Hts121 made awhile ago that Ohio City and other neighborhoods would benefit greatly from increased foot patrol. Maybe Ohio City and Tremont residents and businesses can team up to create their own police force?

According to Facebook's Ohio City Crime watch, there were bullets flying at 32nd and Whitman last night...right near Momocho.  I still cant understand how this can happen.  Ohio City, while a great neighborhood still has ridiculous issues that need to be resolved in terms of crime.  When is local leadership going to start coming up with solutions?

 

Ohio City's growth & development progress has created a significant wealth disparity, placing "haves" & "have nots" in close proximity to one another.  Would take some major policing and officers on the street to stop the random street violence and round up the troublemakers

 

In other words, “mixed income” communities need heavy police presence in order to put a stop to the random crime and violence that seems to accompany a significant part of the “low-income” population. 

 

If the problem can’t be solved in this existing community, why do planners think anyone with options is going to want to move to new ones?

 

According to Facebook's Ohio City Crime watch, there were bullets flying at 32nd and Whitman last night...right near Momocho.  I still cant understand how this can happen.  Ohio City, while a great neighborhood still has ridiculous issues that need to be resolved in terms of crime.  When is local leadership going to start coming up with solutions?

 

Ohio City's growth & development progress has created a significant wealth disparity, placing "haves" & "have nots" in close proximity to one another.  Would take some major policing and officers on the street to stop the random street violence and round up the troublemakers

 

Ohio City is also home to or surrounded by some of the roughest public housing, such as Lakeview Estates, transitional housing, homeless shelters, and is bordered by some rough areas. It is probably viewed as a hangout too which draws people in looking for trouble.

 

University Circle probably doesn't see this to the same extent, although bordered by some very rough areas, because it is not viewed as much of a place to hangout to people looking for trouble. Additionally University Circle is served by several police forces, patrolling on foot, bike, car, and those strange little vehicle things.

 

I agree with a statement Hts121 made awhile ago that Ohio City and other neighborhoods would benefit greatly from increased foot patrol. Maybe Ohio City and Tremont residents and businesses can team up to create their own police force?

 

I'm not a big fan of foot patrol.  An anecdote will illustrate one of the reasons why.  A good friend of mine is a Greensboro, NC police officer.  He looks something like Opie Taylor grown up, but was a college track star.  He quickly became notorious in the inner city after running down a couple perps.  Notorious, because this was considered highly  unusual. 

 

Plus, my experience at the bar is that you have to keep a certain distance from those you police.  Otherwise, they think they are your buddy and think that means they don’t have to listen when it’s time to listen.

 

Also, unless you’re going to hire a lot of cops, they need to be able to back each other up quicky.  Sometimes with serious weapons.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't have its place, but it shouldn't be the basis of a crime prevention plan.  Horses actually make a nice compromise.  Motorcycles aren’t so bad either.

 

 

Well i think this is an issue Cimperman has to fight hard for.  He love his councilzone more than any of us, but i cant figure out why he has never made an attempt to clean up the crap north of 25th and detroit.

Ha!  I lived there.  Greensboro doesn't have an "inner city."  It's all just.... well..... Greensboro.  If there are "rougher" areas, they are much more sprawly than what we consider "inner city" up north and foot patrols are very inneffective under those conditions.

 

FWIW, part of the very purpose of foot patrol IS to build those relationships.... not just with the criminal element more prone to commit crime, but also the people the police depend on to report the crime.

Well i think this is an issue Cimperman has to fight hard for.  He love his councilzone more than any of us, but i cant figure out why he has never made an attempt to clean up the crap north of 25th and detroit.

 

Because it's CMHA and they have their own police force. 

 

It's not just CMHA and the Lakeview Terrace estates, you go 3 blocks in about any direction from 25th & Lorain, and it gets sketchy fast

Wonder where this kid lives and what he was doing in Lakewood?  Seems to be a recurring theme, groups on bikes and stickups.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/10/man_wanted_for_lakewood_robber.html#incart_river_default

If there are "rougher" areas, they are much more sprawly than what we consider "inner city" up north and foot patrols are very inneffective under those conditions.

 

That's not really true.  I am familiar with Greensboro as well and know a firefighter there.  For a smaller city, they have areas of "inner city" on the south and east sides similar to many northern cities, just on a smaller scale since it's a smaller city.

 

http://goo.gl/maps/t6lKU

 

http://goo.gl/maps/UHkaU

 

Besides, it's all relative.  Cleveland's inner city would be considered sprawling to someone from NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, or Baltimore.

 

That's not too say that Greensboro doesn't have plenty of sprawl.  It has a ton.  And some of that sprawl does have a high crime rate.  But they do have plenty of inner city problems as well.

I lived there for about 7 years.  Your right, it's relative.  The point was that there aren't the type of neighborhoods in which a foot patrol would be very effective.  The "ghettos", if you must call them that, look like Bedford.  Foot patrols aren't designed for purely residential areas.  Outside of downtown, I don't think a city like Greensboro has an area in which they would be effective. 

 

What I have advocated for is increasing foot patrols in areas with high density and foot traffic, both residential and business.  Places like OC, Downtown, and even the strip of Euclid which runs through EC from Superior to Noble (if EC had the resources to man a foot patrol).

I lived there for about 7 years.  Your right, it's relative.  The point was that there aren't the type of neighborhoods in which a foot patrol would be very effective.  The "ghettos", if you must call them that, look like Bedford.  Foot patrols aren't designed for purely residential areas.  Outside of downtown, I don't think a city like Greensboro has an area in which they would be effective. 

 

What I have advocated for is increasing foot patrols in areas with high density and foot traffic, both residential and business.  Places like OC, Downtown, and even the strip of Euclid which runs through EC from Superior to Noble (if EC had the resources to man a foot patrol).

 

Mount Pleasant looks like Bedford in places.  Compton looks like Walton Hills with smaller yards.

 

In any case, my point about foot patrol is that Josh became famous because he could actually catch fleeing perps on foot, despite being melanin deficient.  Sprinter speed isn't a common police job skill.  It's more about endurance.

Nobody is suggesting foot patrols in Mt Pleasant.  It's a moot point, regardless.  The effectiveness of foot patrol has very little to do with the speed of the officers.  No matter whether the cop is on foot, on horse, or in a car, the need for foot pursuit will arise

Body found in bushes near Triskett rapid station. Story is on Cleveland.com

Wow, this is disturbing.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/video-woman-shot-in-back-near-bolivar-avenue-and-east-9th-street-in-downtown-cleveland

Wow, this is disturbing.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/video-woman-shot-in-back-near-bolivar-avenue-and-east-9th-street-in-downtown-cleveland

 

That's a strip club.  I believe this was in the news when it first happened.

 

Responsible clubs treat the dancers returning to their cars almost like a military operation.  I'm way out of touch with that end of the industry, but IIRC, "Tops and Bottoms" isn't a very responsible club.

Wow, this is disturbing.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/video-woman-shot-in-back-near-bolivar-avenue-and-east-9th-street-in-downtown-cleveland

 

That's a strip club.  I believe this was in the news when it first happened.

 

Responsible clubs treat the dancers returning to their cars almost like a military operation.  I'm way out of touch with that end of the industry, but IIRC, "Tops and Bottoms" isn't a very responsible club.

 

That place needs to go - ASAP.  I don't think Heinen's and the renters paying $2.00+/sqft in the Breuer will appreciate bullet holes and bodies a block away.  I think it's time to go zero tolerance on places that attract this type of crap.

And zero tolerance on this crap behavior. If caught, lock him up for a LONG time. 

 

Hell, cut off his trigger finger  :evil:

Gut reaction from the video is that this was not a targeted shooting.  And, just judging from the way he was dressed, it doesn't look like a patron of the club.  Seems like a lunatic just shooting into a crowd.  As much as I hate conspiracy theories, there is another possibility as well.  The strip club business is a dirty game.  A rival of this club might think that the City is on the brink of shuttting it down and they paid someone to make that decision a bit easier.

It is not easy finding that article on cleveland.com. It is buried in the crime section, not even a hint of it on the front page

Gut reaction from the video is that this was not a targeted shooting.  And, just judging from the way he was dressed, it doesn't look like a patron of the club.  Seems like a lunatic just shooting into a crowd.  As much as I hate conspiracy theories, there is another possibility as well.  The strip club business is a dirty game.  A rival of this club might think that the City is on the brink of shuttting it down and they paid someone to make that decision a bit easier.

 

That's very possible.  Another possibility is he is obsessed over (or mad at) one or more of the women and thought he saw one of them in the group.  It's a dangerous business to be in as while it mostly caters to married (or taken) guys and out of towners out on a lark, it also brings in the brooding loners who don't understand that their role is "cash machine with legs".

 

Indeed, the Cocktails case might also be someone who wants the business, though not the clientele.

 

Like a gay bar, a strip club should have its own adjacent parking lot.  Indeed, the security concerns of the two differ from regular bars in similar manners.

Body found in bushes near Triskett rapid station. Story is on Cleveland.com

 

Looks like it was a drug overdose per cleveland.com.

Suspect Identified/Wanted by @CLEpolice for Felonious Assault Shooting at Tops & Bottoms Bar:

http://clevelandpolice.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/suspect-identifiedwanted-by-clepolice-for-felonious-assault-shooting-at-tops-bottoms-bar/

This comes a month after 100 were arrested for heroin trafficking. I hate to say it, but this is probably going to result in a power struggle and violence in the coming months as new drug dealers seek to fill the void....

 

Dozens indicted in East Side heroin ring bust

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/10/dozens_indicted_in_east_side_h.html#incart_river_default

Cuyahoga has been a little bit late getting into the heroin resurgence.  It has been a huge problem in Lake and Ashtabula in recent years.  After near extinction, 'smack' is back in a big way.

Cuyahoga has been a little bit late getting into the heroin resurgence.  It has been a huge problem in Lake and Ashtabula in recent years.  After near extinction, 'smack' is back in a big way.

 

Cuyahoga and Summit too.  It just didn't gain the headlines.  There were other issues as well.

^My point was that this is a problem that is moving inwards from the suburbs/exurbs, defying the normal path of spread of drugs.  It was a huge problem in Lake before there was much of any problem in Cuyahoga.  Just talk to any Lake County cop and they'll tell you. 

What bars are operating in this area?

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/Two-shot-outside-the-Halle-Building-in-downtown-Cleveland

What bars are operating in this area?

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/Two-shot-outside-the-Halle-Building-in-downtown-Cleveland

 

None on that block that I know of.  The only eatery is the Huron Square Deli.

@jam40jeff - The shooting happened on Prospect, the victims hailed the cab on Huron.

 

Not sure it's still operating but I know the Xecutive Ultra Lounge is right there at 1222 Prospect Ave.  That seems like they only nightlife spot on that area of Prospect.  http://businessfinder.cleveland.com/13641737/Xecutive-Ultra-Lounge-Cleveland-OH

http://www.yelp.com/biz/xecutive-ultra-lounge-cleveland

The shooting happened on Prospect, the victims hailed the cab on Huron.

 

Are you sure?  The article posted must be wrong, since it said that Huron Rd. was closed off in front of the Halle Building to look for bullet casings.  (Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if the TV news article was wrong.)

"The non-fatal shooting occurred at about 2 a.m. on the 1200 block of Prospect Avenue. The victims then ran to East 12th Street and Huron Road – near the Halle Building – where they hailed a taxi to MetroHealth Medical Center, police said."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/downtown_cleveland_shooting_vi.html#incart_river_default

 

Note: I just read the other article and you're right - there is conflicting information.

I don't know who to believe but as a new downtown resident, I am sure of one thing - there can be no place for this crap anymore.  I advocate we put cameras on ever street corner.  I would rather have big brother than big exit wounds.

I'm willing to bet that's where it happened or at least where it's started. That place is a drain on that area

I'm willing to bet that's where it happened or at least where it's started. That place is a drain on that area

 

College ID night on Thursdays.  They make a point of saying "only grown folks" on Sunday and they mean 21 and over.

 

2:30 am pretty much automatically means closing time at a bar is involved.

Is this the same strip club around which the shooting happened just a few weeks ago?  Or is it a different club.

 

^18&over crowd is always trouble.  That 16-20 range always seems to cause the most problems.

Different club - the last shooting was outside of "Tops & Bottoms" strip club.

Ahhh.... Ultra is the club that had that infamous Braylon punching Lebron's friend incident?  Isn't that closer to the 600 block?  If so, wouldn't Tops and Bottoms be closer to this actual shooting?

Ahhh.... Ultra is the club that had that infamous Braylon punching Lebron's friend incident?  Isn't that closer to the 600 block?  If so, wouldn't Tops and Bottoms be closer to this actual shooting?

 

Different club - refer to links in earlier post.

Ahhh.... Ultra is the club that had that infamous Braylon punching Lebron's friend incident?  Isn't that closer to the 600 block?  If so, wouldn't Tops and Bottoms be closer to this actual shooting?

 

I thought that club was called the View, and it is/was on the south side of Prospect next to the sidewalk connecting Huron to Prospect by Gateway...so around the 600 block of Prospect (maybe even 500).

 

Tops and Bottoms is on Bolivar right by the entrance to the Gateway Parking Garage.

 

Is this club affiliated with Executive's Den in Euclid?  I think someone had told me it was at one time, but they might have been making an assumption based off the name.

^I am not on a good roll as far as being right in identifying these clubs, but I 'believe' that Tops and Bottoms used to be called the Executive Den or Executive Lounge and did have some connection to 'the Euclid Ballet'..... this would have been about 5 years back

^I am not on a good roll as far as being right in identifying these clubs, but I 'believe' that Tops and Bottoms used to be called the Executive Den or Executive Lounge and did have some connection to 'the Euclid Ballet'..... this would have been about 5 years back

 

The Den did have a downtown branch a few years back when I knew several dancers there.  I think it was on Superior by 15th, so I don't think it was the same place.

 

(By the way, the women I knew hated to work downtown.)

 

 

^Pretty sure you are confusing that with the Downtown Crazy Horse (or Golden Horse..... whatever).  I seem to remember passing by the Executive [something] on Bolivar when cutting though the garage to get to the Q..... right where Tops and Bottoms is now

E Rocc is right, there was an offshoot of Exec Den on Superior but it was at E 12th. Not on St. Clair like the Crazy Horse. I remember seeing it as I used to park in that lot across the street when I worked near there, and wondered if it was related to the larger place on the E side.

Larger place?  Was it the size of a coat closet?  Idk if things have changed in the past 10-15 years, but the Exec Den on Marginal was never known for its shoulder room. 

 

There definitely was one on Bolivar where Tops and Bottoms is now.  http://m.yelp.com/biz/downtown-den-gateway-cleveland. Maybe it moved around before closing

Executive Ultra Lounge or whatever it's name is is not a strip club, it is one of those trashy hip-hop clubs that advertises with a bunch of flyers (which become trash blowing around on the street) promising "exclusive", "upscale", "VIP", etc.  Those clubs invariably have an approximate 18 month lifespan before they become the scene of shootings and get shut down.  But another one always pops up to replace it.  It must be part of the business model.

 

As a general rule of thumb, the more a club uses executive/upscale/VIP/etc, the trashier the clientele ends up being.  I wish there was some way to keep the garbage out in the first place.

^I am not on a good roll as far as being right in identifying these clubs, but I 'believe' that Tops and Bottoms used to be called the Executive Den or Executive Lounge and did have some connection to 'the Euclid Ballet'..... this would have been about 5 years back

 

The Den did have a downtown branch a few years back when I knew several dancers there.  I think it was on Superior by 15th, so I don't think it was the same place.

 

(By the way, the women I knew hated to work downtown.)

 

 

 

Thanks for the obligatory downtown slam. BTW, considering their comments, if accurate, came from strippers working for mobsters, why should anyone assign any value to them?

^I am not on a good roll as far as being right in identifying these clubs, but I 'believe' that Tops and Bottoms used to be called the Executive Den or Executive Lounge and did have some connection to 'the Euclid Ballet'..... this would have been about 5 years back

 

The Den did have a downtown branch a few years back when I knew several dancers there.  I think it was on Superior by 15th, so I don't think it was the same place.

 

(By the way, the women I knew hated to work downtown.)

 

 

 

Thanks for the obligatory downtown slam. BTW, considering their comments, if accurate, came from strippers working for mobsters, why should anyone assign any value to them?

 

Because when it's all said and done, their concerns are the same as other people's.  I found it ironic.

Executive Ultra Lounge or whatever it's name is is not a strip club, it is one of those trashy hip-hop clubs that advertises with a bunch of flyers (which become trash blowing around on the street) promising "exclusive", "upscale", "VIP", etc.  Those clubs invariably have an approximate 18 month lifespan before they become the scene of shootings and get shut down.  But another one always pops up to replace it.  It must be part of the business model.

 

As a general rule of thumb, the more a club uses executive/upscale/VIP/etc, the trashier the clientele ends up being.  I wish there was some way to keep the garbage out in the first place.

 

The main thing about places like this is they're never in it for the long haul, so they skimp whenever and wherever possible.  They'll be glad to tell you they aren't responsible for what goes on outside their property.  While this is technically true, and most bars will say this, they take it to another level.

 

The way to get rid of them more quickly, or prevent them in the first place, is by code.  Or require some sort of bond, repayable if certain things do not happen over a certain period.