http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/off-duty_cleveland_firefighter_1.html#incart_river

 

WEWS Channel 5 reports the 45-year-old victim was shot multiple times in the chest. The man, a member of the fire department's fire/arson unit, had just parked his car in his driveway and was walking toward his home when he was shot, reports show.

The way to get rid of them more quickly, or prevent them in the first place, is by code.  Or require some sort of bond, repayable if certain things do not happen over a certain period.[/color]

 

How would you write the code specifically?

The way to get rid of them more quickly, or prevent them in the first place, is by code.  Or require some sort of bond, repayable if certain things do not happen over a certain period.[/color]

 

How would you write the code specifically?

 

I mean building code, fire code, that sort of thing.  Be strict about it.  As I said, many of these guys are fly by night types.  They won't want to make any investments they don't have to.  Also, work with landlords in the same manner.  Some of them enable this kind of crap, others are just sold a bill of goods.

 

As far as the bond goes, that you can tie into the liquor license. 

Interesting.

Retired FBI agent Phil Torsney returns to tackle unsolved murder of Amy Mihaljevic

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Special Agent Phil Torsney enjoyed every minute of his 29-year and two-month-long FBI career.

 

The 57-year-old didn't feel quite the same way about retirement.

 

That's why Torsney found himself standing on an isolated road in rural Ashland County just a few months after he capped off his FBI career with convictions in the case of infamous Boston mobster Whitey Bulger – a man Tornsey helped track down in 2011 after he had eluded the FBI for 16 years.

 

Tornsey's new job is about a nine-hour commute from his Northern Michigan home.

 

But he's back for one reason – her name is Amy.

amy-mihaljevic-larkin-column.JPGView full sizeAmy MihaljevicPlain Dealer file

 

Torsney was among the first agents that flocked to the Bay Village shopping strip where 10-year-old Amy Mihaljevic was last seen 24 years ago.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2013/11/post_1.html#incart_river_default

The way to get rid of them more quickly, or prevent them in the first place, is by code.  Or require some sort of bond, repayable if certain things do not happen over a certain period.[/color]

 

How would you write the code specifically?

 

I mean building code, fire code, that sort of thing.  Be strict about it.  As I said, many of these guys are fly by night types.  They won't want to make any investments they don't have to.  Also, work with landlords in the same manner.  Some of them enable this kind of crap, others are just sold a bill of goods.

 

As far as the bond goes, that you can tie into the liquor license. 

 

The first paragraph makes sense, I think.  Although I am not sure that the City HAS been lax in this area with these establishments.  And the other problem would be the dangers of 'selective enforcement' which can get the City in some deep doo-doo.

 

As for the bond, I don't think the existing bars and clubs would be too happy about that.  You couldn't tie in an increased bond to the type of music you play or the crowd you draw in..... so it would have to be an across the board increase by the state for each business which hold a liquor license.

The way to get rid of them more quickly, or prevent them in the first place, is by code.  Or require some sort of bond, repayable if certain things do not happen over a certain period.[/color]

 

How would you write the code specifically?

 

I mean building code, fire code, that sort of thing.  Be strict about it.  As I said, many of these guys are fly by night types.  They won't want to make any investments they don't have to.  Also, work with landlords in the same manner.  Some of them enable this kind of crap, others are just sold a bill of goods.

 

As far as the bond goes, that you can tie into the liquor license. 

 

The first paragraph makes sense, I think.  Although I am not sure that the City HAS been lax in this area with these establishments.  And the other problem would be the dangers of 'selective enforcement' which can get the City in some deep doo-doo.

 

As for the bond, I don't think the existing bars and clubs would be too happy about that.  You couldn't tie in an increased bond to the type of music you play or the crowd you draw in..... so it would have to be an across the board increase by the state for each business which hold a liquor license.

 

It wouldn't have to apply to existing permit holders.  I'm talking about a way to filter out the operators who have no intention of being in the business five years from now.

Interesting.

Retired FBI agent Phil Torsney returns to tackle unsolved murder of Amy Mihaljevic

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Special Agent Phil Torsney enjoyed every minute of his 29-year and two-month-long FBI career.

 

The 57-year-old didn't feel quite the same way about retirement.

 

That's why Torsney found himself standing on an isolated road in rural Ashland County just a few months after he capped off his FBI career with convictions in the case of infamous Boston mobster Whitey Bulger – a man Tornsey helped track down in 2011 after he had eluded the FBI for 16 years.

 

Tornsey's new job is about a nine-hour commute from his Northern Michigan home.

 

But he's back for one reason – her name is Amy.

amy-mihaljevic-larkin-column.JPGView full sizeAmy MihaljevicPlain Dealer file

 

Torsney was among the first agents that flocked to the Bay Village shopping strip where 10-year-old Amy Mihaljevic was last seen 24 years ago.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2013/11/post_1.html#incart_river_default

 

The Tiffany Papesh case should also still be open.  No remains were ever found, and the people close to the case are pretty close to unanimous that Flagner had nothing to do with it.

 

But shouldn't both these cases be on the "suburban" thread?

Just heard my friend was rubbed at gunpoint last night at W.58th and Detroit. He's okay.

 

Not cool Gordon Square.

^Nobody said everything would go away overnight but that's a very rare case. What time was it? Was he alone?

^Nobody said everything would go away overnight but that's a very rare case. What time was it? Was he alone?

 

I don't know the specifics yet. Probably alone, probably late. Interesting, he's a concealed carry owner. But since he was coming from a bar/restaurant he was not armed.

 

This is the fifth time that a friend has had a gun to their head at the same location. Albeit, the last four times were a few years ago.

Just heard my friend was rubbed at gunpoint last night at W.58th and Detroit. He's okay.

 

Not cool Gordon Square.

 

How about "not cool" of your friend?  At what point are people responsible for their own behaviors?  Don't walk down 58th by yourself late at night.  58th isnt what I'd call a bad street but it is the far edge of Gordon Square commercial district.  It's pretty desolate between Detroit & the Parkview & could be full of surprises south of Detroit.  The area is definitely on the upswing but you can't put yourself in unsafe situations, then be angry or surprised when bad things happen.  At the same time, I'm glad your friend wasn't hurt

^blaming the victim?!!! ;)

 

In all seriousness this is not good. We can't rip on people for not living in the city if this keeps on happening. Crime isn't just a "perceived" issue as people like to say. It's a real issue. That being said I still feel safe in Gordon Square, but I've only been there during the day.

 

As for being responsible for your own behaviors I agree. The piece of sh!t THUG is responsible for HIS behaviors.

^blaming the victim?!!! ;)

 

In all seriousness this is not good. We can't rip on people for not living in the city if this keeps on happening. Crime isn't just a "perceived" issue as people like to say. It's a real issue. That being said I still feel safe in Gordon Square, but I've only been there during the day.

 

As for being responsible for your own behaviors I agree. The piece of sh!t THUG is responsible for HIS behaviors.

 

Very good observation ClevelandOhio.

^ to Gottaplans point, there is a street smart aspect.  i have lived in the area for over two years and frequented before then.  People need to know where and where not to be at certain points.  Its surprising these things happen, but minimizing opportunity is key.  Now, if there was someone waiting right outside of happy dog to rob the next person, thats a different story.  but considering the volume of people there at 2 AM i doubt thats the case

How about "not cool" of your friend?  At what point are people responsible for their own behaviors?  Don't walk down 58th by yourself late at night.  58th isnt what I'd call a bad street but it is the far edge of Gordon Square commercial district.  It's pretty desolate between Detroit & the Parkview & could be full of surprises south of Detroit.  The area is definitely on the upswing but you can't put yourself in unsafe situations, then be angry or surprised when bad things happen.  At the same time, I'm glad your friend wasn't hurt

 

For my own sanity's sake I hope this is a tongue in cheek jab at idiots blaming the victim for getting in trouble.

 

As to your point, when should the victim accept responsibility? When there is no onsite parking at Happy Dog, most people are are going to walk some distance from Detroit for on street parking. Should he accept responsibility for walking a block to get to his car? :-o

As to your point, when should the victim accept responsibility? When there is no onsite parking at Happy Dog, most people are are going to walk some distance from Detroit for on street parking. Should he accept responsibility for walking a block to get to his car? :-o

 

I agree, there's no parking at Happy Dog.  I live close by & walk to all these bars, XYZ, Stone Mad, Parkview, etc.  But I'm 6-1, 200+ and still wouldn't do it alone late night.  There's a million ways to not be a victim.  Have someone drop you off at your car, have someone walk you to your car, take a cab to the bar & back.... 

What the hell is wrong with you. How about a little compassion and empathy.

Shot dead in a car, W112th 8pm.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/man_19_fatally_shot_on_clevela.html#incart_river_default

 

The Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's office confirmed the man, Dominique Walker, 19, was then taken to MetroHealth Medical Center where he died.

 

Badger937

 

Hmm. Quick look at the County Court website shows he was involved in attempted trafficking and another case for a concealed weapon. I take it he wasn't on his way to choir practice. Maybe if the court didn't slap these criminals on the hand he would be alive.

 

" 06/21/2013 IT IS NOW ORDERED AND ADJUDGED THAT SAID DEFENDANT DOMINIQUE WALKER, IS SENTENCED TO THE CUYAHOGA COUNTY JAIL FOR A TERM OF 180 DAY(S). EXECUTION OF SENTENCE SUSPENDED. "

Just heard my friend was rubbed at gunpoint last night at W.58th and Detroit. He's okay.

 

Not cool Gordon Square.

 

If we know this Gordon guy's name, how come nobody has reported it to the police.

 

Now that WAS tongue in cheek.  I see it like this - it does no good to simply report and lament these episodes, with the usual "what the hell is going on"....."something needs to be done"...... etc.  In his own way, gottaplan was offering some thoughts on what might be a component of the overall solution.  Predators need prey and they highly prefer easy targets.

I agree, there's no parking at Happy Dog.  I live close by & walk to all these bars, XYZ, Stone Mad, Parkview, etc.  But I'm 6-1, 200+ and still wouldn't do it alone late night.  There's a million ways to not be a victim.  Have someone drop you off at your car, have someone walk you to your car, take a cab to the bar & back....

 

He wasn't walking through East Cleveland with a pocket of cash looking to score smack from the gangs. You can't blame the victim for doing something most people consider perfectly reasonable. Their response would otherwise be to get the hell out of the area. Can't convince the masses to move back into the city while continuously making excuses for the criminals.

^Do you know what he was doing, Mendo?  I dont think its fair to speculate on either end. 

^Do you know what he was doing, Mendo?  I dont think its fair to speculate on either end.

 

Fair enough. All we know is that a friend of an UO'er was jacked near a busy intersection in an area trying to rebrand itself. Which is why I think it's a bit silly to place blame on anything other than the douche bag with a gun. Am I unfairly assuming he didn't do anything to deserve getting robbed?

^blaming the victim?!!! ;)

 

In all seriousness this is not good. We can't rip on people for not living in the city if this keeps on happening. Crime isn't just a "perceived" issue as people like to say. It's a real issue. That being said I still feel safe in Gordon Square, but I've only been there during the day.

 

As for being responsible for your own behaviors I agree. The piece of sh!t THUG is responsible for HIS behaviors.

 

The perception out in the suburbs is this isn't the type of crime the city is willing to do much about.  How true or untrue that is is a matter for debate.  The crime itself, as you say, is a hell of a lot more than "perception".

 

I don't think I'd want to own, work at, or frequent a bar in the city or parts of the inner ring that doesn't have either its own parking or a secured route to same.

Just heard my friend was rubbed at gunpoint last night at W.58th and Detroit. He's okay.

 

Not cool Gordon Square.

 

How about "not cool" of your friend?  At what point are people responsible for their own behaviors?  Don't walk down 58th by yourself late at night.  58th isnt what I'd call a bad street but it is the far edge of Gordon Square commercial district.  It's pretty desolate between Detroit & the Parkview & could be full of surprises south of Detroit.  The area is definitely on the upswing but you can't put yourself in unsafe situations, then be angry or surprised when bad things happen.  At the same time, I'm glad your friend wasn't hurt

 

Agree he shouldn't have been in that situation, and he knows that - lives in the area. He's not angry or upset, just glad to be alive.

Just heard my friend was rubbed at gunpoint last night at W.58th and Detroit. He's okay.

 

Not cool Gordon Square.

 

How about "not cool" of your friend?  At what point are people responsible for their own behaviors?  Don't walk down 58th by yourself late at night.  58th isnt what I'd call a bad street but it is the far edge of Gordon Square commercial district.  It's pretty desolate between Detroit & the Parkview & could be full of surprises south of Detroit.  The area is definitely on the upswing but you can't put yourself in unsafe situations, then be angry or surprised when bad things happen.  At the same time, I'm glad your friend wasn't hurt

 

Agree he shouldn't have been in that situation, and he knows that - lives in the area. He's not angry or upset, just glad to be alive.

 

True enough and fair enough.

 

But this incident illustrates how the biggest enemy of viable urban development isn't suburbanites, freeways, or even banks.

^only when viewed in the most simplistic terms

UPDATE: Man fatally shot on Cleveland's West Side identified

Adam Ferrise, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Adam Ferrise, Northeast Ohio Media Group

CLEVELAND, Ohio— Police are investigating the suspected fatal shooting of a 19-year-old man on the city's West Side.

 

Police said the man was shot in the abdomen at about 8 p.m. Saturday in the 1300 block of West 112th Street.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/man_19_fatally_shot_on_clevela.html

UPDATE: Man fatally shot on Cleveland's West Side identified

Adam Ferrise, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Adam Ferrise, Northeast Ohio Media Group

CLEVELAND, Ohio— Police are investigating the suspected fatal shooting of a 19-year-old man on the city's West Side.

 

Police said the man was shot in the abdomen at about 8 p.m. Saturday in the 1300 block of West 112th Street.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/man_19_fatally_shot_on_clevela.html

 

Once again, Cleveland.com leaves it to the comments to bring out relevant facts....in this case, the victim's criminal record.

I hate it when Cleveland.com forgets to 'blame the victim'

Either crime is on the rise in the city and inner ring suburbs, or the new Plain Dealer loves reporting every crime to increase website views.

 

Could be a little bit of both.

Crime reporting is easy for lazy journalists. Cops do most of the interviewing and reporting. "Journalists" just rewrite the who-what-when-where-why from "copspeak" to something more newsy and, in some cases (Channel 19) into something more dramatic.

I hate it when Cleveland.com forgets to 'blame the victim'

 

Many urban homicides are people in the drug trade killing each other.  Ignoring this fact often makes city neighborhoods seem more dangerous than they really are.

I hate it when Cleveland.com forgets to 'blame the victim'

 

Many urban homicides are people in the drug trade killing each other.  Ignoring this fact often makes city neighborhoods seem more dangerous than they really are.

 

Agreed - I have to give my 2 cents because I have seen this debate more than once.  I don't see how pointing out the victim's extensive criminal history is irrelevant or harmful.  These facts may help us better understand the nature of the crime.

Of course, no one is saying he deserved to be killed.

Do we know that the killing was drug trade related?  Or are we just inferring it based on the fact this kid had a drug related arrest on his rap sheet?  I mustve missed something in the story.  A 19 year old kid is dead and you folks are worried that the PD, in releasing a follow up story identifying him by name, did not insinuate some fault of his own in his death?  Seriously? 

Do we know that the killing was drug trade related?  Or are we just inferring it based on the fact this kid had a drug related arrest on his rap sheet?  I mustve missed something in the story.  A 19 year old kid is dead and you folks are worried that the PD, in releasing a follow up story identifying him by name, did not insinuate some fault of his own in his death?  Seriously?

 

Whoa there.  I can assure you I am certainly not "worried that the PD, in releasing a follow up story identifying him by name, did not insinuate some fault of his own in his death".

 

My point, however, is the fact that the kid had a long rap sheet of drug and gun offenses is certainly not irrelevant to possibly understanding the crime.

 

Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?  "The razor states that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

 

I ask you now - what is overwhelmingly more likely?  That the kid who had a pretty extensive criminal past was shot at random or his killing shared a nexus with said criminal past?

 

Homicide is heinous and we try to rationalize it by understanding its causes/motives - that's all that is going on here.  To understand crimes like this and how they relate to Cleveland I think we may want at least consider the possible motives.  A better understanding of these motives may allow us stop future killings.  Therefore, I don't think discussing his criminal past is irrelevant or harmful.

I don't either.  Discuss away.  Throw out whatever hypothesis, suspicions, theories, etc you have.  It's a free country and this is a 'discussion' board.  I was merely reacting to the notion that the PD should do the same without direct evidence to substantiate any such theory.  This was somebody's son and, although a legal adult, he was still a child.  Regardless, I doubt the PD (after learning the ID of a victim) is in such a mad dash as some of its readers to try to dig up the kid's rap sheet.  Another possibility is that the CPD has requested that the PD not reveal certain details so as not to interfere with or hinder an ongoing invetigation.

I don't either.  Discuss away.  Throw out whatever hypothesis, suspicions, theories, etc you have.  It's a free country and this is a 'discussion' board.  I was merely reacting to the notion that the PD should do the same without direct evidence to substantiate any such theory.  This was somebody's son and, although a legal adult, he was still a child.  Regardless, I doubt the PD (after learning the ID of a victim) is in such a mad dash as some of its readers to try to dig up the kid's rap sheet.  Another possibility is that the CPD has requested that the PD not reveal certain details so as not to interfere with or hinder an ongoing invetigation.

 

The rap sheet is public record.  This is also a neighborhood where there's still ongoing efforts to turn things around.  Whether this was a street robbery or a drug turf killing is highly relevant.

Or, the story was written and run by some sort of freelance police-scanner monitoring service.  Who is Northeast Ohio Media Group, as depicted in the byline?

Or, the story was written and run by some sort of freelance police-scanner monitoring service.  Who is Northeast Ohio Media Group, as depicted in the byline?

 

That's Advance Communications which owns the PD, Sun Newspapers and Cleveland.com through their subsidiary Northeast Ohio Media Group.

Sounds like fairly diluted journalism to me.  I'm sure they are cranking out the content. 

Whether this was a street robbery or a drug turf killing is highly relevant

 

Have the police made that determination?  We can play the guessing game all we want.  You certainly will.  But the PD is a media organization.  I'd prefer to see responsible journalism from the City's major circular.  How would've you written the article?  You would've added a paragraph to the effect of "although the police do not have any solid leads at the moment as to motive, court records suggest the deceased was a scumbag"?  Should the PD also require something along those lines in his obit?  Why don't you go and protest his funeral like that church in Kansas?

 

While we are on the subject.  I am going to request that Surf provide the name of his friend who was robbed in DS last week.  Let's do a background check to see if we can loosely imply that he deserved it.

Let's do a background check to see if we can loosely imply that he deserved it.

 

I think some people already implied he deserved it without knowing anything about what happened, let alone his name or a background check.

 

That being said, I completely agree that there is no way the Plain Dealer should be throwing in tidbits which are only possibly related to what happened or why it happened until more is known.  That would be some 19 Action News isht.

Let's do a background check to see if we can loosely imply that he deserved it.

 

I think some people already implied he deserved it without knowing anything about what happened, let alone his name or a background check.

 

That being said, I completely agree that there is no way the Plain Dealer should be throwing in tidbits which are only possibly related to what happened or why it happened until more is known.  That would be some 19 Action News isht.

 

No one is saying he deserved it. 

 

We're saying there's a big difference between normal street crime and drug trade related crime.

Let's do a background check to see if we can loosely imply that he deserved it.

 

I think some people already implied he deserved it without knowing anything about what happened, let alone his name or a background check.

 

That being said, I completely agree that there is no way the Plain Dealer should be throwing in tidbits which are only possibly related to what happened or why it happened until more is known.  That would be some 19 Action News isht.

 

No one is saying he deserved it.

 

Sorry, I can see reading that how it's confusing what I was referring to.  I was talking about how some people were implying that surfohio's friend deserved to get robbed.

Newsflash - the vast majority of homicides are not random street crimes

Thanks for enlightening us, Hts.  We're all dumb and didn't realize that.

That's not news.... dumb folk are rarely aware of their own stupidity

Deep breath.  I'm not going to get into a p!ssing match.  We aren't even really disagreeing about anything.

 

My point was that the victim should not be blamed in either case, but people seemed awfully quick to jump all over surf's friend for doing something wrong when he got robbed.  Also, I agreed that the newspaper should not be printing tangentially related, speculative information in connection to a homicide, especially before any investigation has been completed.

 

I still don't understand why the newsflash was necessary (or even for whom it was intended.)

I'm not going to get into a p!ssing match

 

Wise choice.  I gotz skillz.....

 

 

FYI - Newsflash wasn't directed to you and I was using Surf's friend's case sarcastically, particularly given the way multiple people reacted negatively (without knowing any details) to even the suggestion of the 'blame the victim' tact in that case

 

 

I wasn't referring to you in surf's friend's case.  I was just surprised at gottaplan's "not cool your friend" comment.  I mean I understand being defensive about your hood, but saying "not cool" to someone for getting robbed seems a little inappropriate to me.