"Still, if you all wanted to build a Manhattan type of dense neighborhood in the city of Cleveland, this would absolutely be the ideal spot.  Even immediately postwar, but especially now.  But you’d have to generate the political will to clean it out and I doubt that comes close to existing."

 

Yeah, we covered that extensively in another thread I started from last year about this property that I think got lost in the upgrade.  What I got out of a lot of very good information from people on here who understand the history of that  property and how HUD operates is that "it's not gonna happen".

 

Yeah, that’s pretty much a given.  When you look at the reaction to the highly limited moves the Opportunity Corridor would require, it doesn’t take any esoteric knowledge to know the usual suspects would defecate the bed if someone proposed shutting down the Lakeview complex for redevelopment.  Yes, Chicago managed it, but in this case the very suitability of the area for gentrification works against it happening.

 

It couldn’t be done partially either, because who the hell would pay market rates to live in that close proximity to a place that reinforces the stereotypes that hard?

 

Getting back on topic some, this is a classic example of how crime and the areas that breed it can do a hell of a lot more damage to the vibrancy of a city than any sprawl ever could.

 

Getting back on topic some, this is a classic example of how crime and the areas that breed it can do a hell of a lot more damage to the vibrancy of a city than any sprawl ever could.

 

Your broken record jab at density is your idea of getting back on topic? That's funny.

 

It would be interesting to see crime statistics for places like Lakeview going back to its opening in the 30's. I wonder when or if it peaked at any point when the city started its decline and exodus.

Who's talking about density here?  I'm talking about a neighborhood that is poisoning it's surroundings.  It's density is largely irrelevant

Isn't Ohio city growing in population thus making eroccs theory false?

Sprawl worsens crime. Why? In a low-growth metro area, blight invariably chases sprawl.

Isn't Ohio city growing in population thus making eroccs theory false?

 

Technically it is still shrinking, although growing in a different demographic.

 

So you don't agree that crime hurts the vibrancy of the neighboring areas?  I really don't understand how anyone could disagree with that.

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

 

Think about how fast it would be growing if these things didn't happen - you would have the best urban neighborhood between New York and Chicago, easily.

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

 

It not completely removing any demand, but it definitely isn't helping. I know of many cases where people were looking at Ohio City but ended up choosing Tremont, University Circle, Little Italy, Shaker Square, Lakewood, or Cleveland Heights due to crime being higher in Ohio City + the number of sketchy characters. Ive also read about people moving out due to crime issues. Even on UrbanOhio you can find this when you look at relocation threads from a year or two ago before this forum turned into positive thoughts only/being blind to anything negative. You can find several threads on here recommending Tremont or Lakewood over Ohio City mainly due to crime.

 

Ohio City does still have a draw though which Im not denying. Its mostly towards people who like it for its entertainment.

 

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

 

Think about how fast it would be growing if these things didn't happen - you would have the best urban neighborhood between New York and Chicago, easily.

 

Although it would be a lot better, I wouldn't go that far. You cant ignore the urban neighborhoods in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and even Columbus, all of which are much more urban in design. Even Cleveland has several neighborhoods which could compete for best urban neighborhood in Cleveland.

"So you don't agree that crime hurts the vibrancy of the neighboring areas?  I really don't understand how anyone could disagree with that".

 

Thank you ClevelandOhio for all your responses above.  You have added a bit of reason here.

 

Funny the majority of responses to E Roccs observations have been totally misconstrued simply because it isn't what people on this board want to hear.  That kind of mentality is very damaging in itself. 

 

 

 

 

For residents of Ohio City - I encourage you to join the "Ohio City Crime Watch" Facebook page.  It's a good but depressing way to stay in the know.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/442526029113236?ref=br_tf

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

 

Think about how fast it would be growing if these things didn't happen - you would have the best urban neighborhood between New York and Chicago, easily.

 

Some of these things will never completely go away. It is improving though.  I have 2nd district crime stats to back that up.  I think lack of a quality housing stock is a bigger issue as to why it's not growing as quickly as it could be.  I have a friend that has been looking to buy a house in OC or DS. He's put in offers on four different houses and has been outbid on all of them.  They (yes its a family!) gave up and are renting until more come on the market. The house I was lucky enough to buy had two other bids as well. I had to come in over asking price. The demand is here. 

^ I agree.  I don't mean to come across as a pessimist - I love Ohio City and think it's resurgence is here to stay.

It turns out the victim on Lakeview was actually transgendered (male-to-female).  I believe this is the third such murder in the area this year.

Sprawl worsens crime. Why? In a low-growth metro area, blight invariably chases sprawl.

 

Then why has violent crime decreased, regionally, as sprawl has accelerated?

It doesn't seem to be hurting Ohio city....talk to people trying to move here or local real estate agents.  Even though its not ohio city, look how quickly waverly station has filled up.  I've read plenty of articles about how the near west side needs an additional 1000 rental units.  What do I know though, right?

 

Think about how fast it would be growing if these things didn't happen - you would have the best urban neighborhood between New York and Chicago, easily.

 

Although it would be a lot better, I wouldn't go that far. You cant ignore the urban neighborhoods in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and even Columbus, all of which are much more urban in design. Even Cleveland has several neighborhoods which could compete for best urban neighborhood in Cleveland.

 

Not if you replaced the Lakeview projects with gentrified apartments and went Giuliani on the area as a whole, then connected in the waterfront line.  You'd have one of the best in America, and this is me saying this...

Can we stop pretending that thousands of residents and millions of dollars of fixed assets can be costlessly moved around (or vaporized?), and without any unintended consequences?  We get it, having tough housing projects adjacent to a fragile gentrification zone in a weak market city probably holds back development and further gentrification. I'm sure we all wish conditions were different for any number of reasons (including for the sake of the Lakeview residents).  It may be a headwind but this is probably not an intractable problem that will prevent OC from continuing to improve, which is good, because the project isn't going anywhere. Also, to correct a post upthread, Lakeview is locally owned and operated (CHMA). HUD's only involvement at this point is providing very limited funding, with strings. Just in case anyone mistakenly thought the feds were "forcing" Lakeview on us.

Can we stop pretending that thousands of residents and millions of dollars of fixed assets can be costlessly moved around (or vaporized?), and without any unintended consequences?  We get it, having tough housing projects adjacent to a fragile gentrification zone in a weak market city probably holds back development and further gentrification. I'm sure we all wish conditions were different for any number of reasons (including for the sake of the Lakeview residents).  It may be a headwind but this is probably not an intractable problem that will prevent OC from continuing to improve, which is good, because the project isn't going anywhere. Also, to correct a post upthread, Lakeview is locally owned and operated (CHMA). HUD's only involvement at this point is providing very limited funding, with strings. Just in case anyone mistakenly thought the feds were "forcing" Lakeview on us.

 

If this CHMA property is indeed as valuable as some believe it is, wouldn't it theoretically make sense for CHMA  to sell?

It's not as easy as unloading an abandoned property.  Thousands of residents would need to be relocated.  Then you have to consider that the units themselves are probably not amenable to adaptive re-use, which would mean any developer would be looking at both demolition and new construction costs (we know all too well how developers view new construction costs in the post-2008 economic climate which aren't accompanied by public subsidy). 

 

But I think I agree with your inference that the land is not as valuable as some suggest.  There is fairly heavy industry directly to the north, blocking access to the Lake and blighting the views of it.  There is no direct pedestrian connections to FEB or to the park/island.  Probably too many negatives to garner any serious consideration from the private sector.

^^I believe CMHA just extensively renovated much of the complex, so I'm skeptical the sales price for the complex would come anywhere close to allowing CMHA to purchase new sites and build replacement units or finance a similar number housing choice vouchers for that many households.

Lakeview is locally owned and operated (CHMA). HUD's only involvement at this point is providing very limited funding, with strings. Just in case anyone mistakenly thought the feds were "forcing" Lakeview on us.

 

If this CHMA property is indeed as valuable as some believe it is, wouldn't it theoretically make sense for CHMA  to sell?

 

It'll never happen.  Disposition of a property like Lakeview requires years of planning, like literally 8 years or more.  Approval from HUD is just one of the steps.  Major step is relocating residents.  These people have signed leases & don't want to move.  There's about 2,000 people that live in that complex including the highrise.  The Lakeview property itself is historically significant for CMHA & HUD for a number of reasons as well.  CMHA had big money offers from local & national developers for that property back in the late 90's early 2000's and it never happened.  It'll never happen.

Sigh. I was going to continue down the Lakeview path, but decided against it.

 

On topic, weren't there some major drug rings busted in the last 6 months IRCC leading to an uptick in shootings as the power structure sorted itself out?  Or was that longer ago  than I am thinking. My sense of time is shot...

For residents of Ohio City - I encourage you to join the "Ohio City Crime Watch" Facebook page.  It's a good but depressing way to stay in the know.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/442526029113236?ref=br_tf

 

Wow that is depressing. Never knew how big stealing tires was in Ohio City/Detroit Shoreway. And even worse, house break-ins.

Crime seems to be bad all over the Cleveland area.  This is pretty far west. 

 

Robbery on Cleveland's West Side leaves 28-year-old man dead from gunshot to chest

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/robbery_on_clevelands_west_sid.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

 

 

 

Crime seems to be bad all over the Cleveland area.  This is pretty far west. 

 

Robbery on Cleveland's West Side leaves 28-year-old man dead from gunshot to chest

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/robbery_on_clevelands_west_sid.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Yeah, that's out past the "Little Arabia" area.  My niece lives out there.  Often crimes in such outlying areas turn out to not be stereotypical "urban crimes" but this one sure seems to be.

 

Ironically, the West Park killing turns out that way while the Lakeview one seems to be something different, though quite tragic and representative of a possible trend. 

I'm active in Ohio Crime watch and house break ins are much more prevalent in OC than in DEtroit Shoreway. It's recommended to get tire locks on you vehicles if you can

This makes me very sad. West Park is not a dangerous place and someone has lost his life over $20.  Time to really beef up city police

I'm active in Ohio Crime watch and house break ins are much more prevalent in OC than in DEtroit Shoreway. It's recommended to get tire locks on you vehicles if you can

 

Yeah, I joined that FB group.  The tire thieves are brazen.  I like the "bait" idea.

I know at least violent crime seems to be decreasing overall the past decade or so in the US, but does anyone know the statistics and trends for Cleveland the past decade?

A summary of the bloody past few days in Cleveland.  4 of the 5 are officially on the west side (the new east side).  Another 30 year old was shot to death on W 90th street last night. 

One thing I hadn't realized was the beating death of the woman by the old Deaconess Hospital was also transgendered. 

 

Separately, there was an armed robbery at a bar on the west side. 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/fifth_homicide_in_cleveland_in.html#incart_river

 

I still find it shocking that the mayor here doesn't make some kind of statement.  Oh wait Frank Jackson is still mayor. 

While a disturbing spike on the west side...lets make one thing clear...there is no "New East Side".  Nobody will ever rip the crown off of the east side, except maybe South Chicago.  WHile 4 out 5 homicides this week occurred on the west side.  I would imagine 4 out of every 5 through the course of a year occur on the east side.  This is very sad, robbery seems to be very high everywhere, including Cleveland Hts and Shaker Hts.  Neighborhoods need to take ownership, work with police and local officials and come up with solutions.  Crime is low in Gordon Square specifically because of those reasons.

While a disturbing spike on the west side...lets make one thing clear...there is no "New East Side".  Nobody will ever rip the crown off of the east side, except maybe South Chicago. 

 

You must not travel a lot.

While a disturbing spike on the west side...lets make one thing clear...there is no "New East Side".  Nobody will ever rip the crown off of the east side, except maybe South Chicago.  WHile 4 out 5 homicides this week occurred on the west side.  I would imagine 4 out of every 5 through the course of a year occur on the east side.  This is very sad, robbery seems to be very high everywhere, including Cleveland Hts and Shaker Hts.  Neighborhoods need to take ownership, work with police and local officials and come up with solutions.  Crime is low in Gordon Square specifically because of those reasons.

 

I wouldn't be so sure.  The demographics have been shifting, and therefore the crime.  As the east side continues to become depleted you will continue to see crime go up on the west side (as well as many of the east side inner rings like Maple Heights). I have been warning about this for years (if he police were not able to keep a handle on it/contain it).  The same pattern will just merely repeat (with the glut of cheap housing here, it is just to easy for people to continually move farther out to a safer area, not forcing any real solutions).   

 

Do realize there was a time when the east side (when they were largely eastern European neighborhoods) couldn't imagine the crime that was occurring in x place (I worked with a few of them during my time in DC).  We are seeing that pattern replicate itself over and over. 

 

Neighborhoods need to take ownership, work with police and local officials and come up with solutions. 

 

Any ideas?  It's easy to piss and moan about needing "solutions"..... it's much harder to actually state what those solutions might be.  Platitudes don't help.  Realistic, pragmatic solutions to crime are difficult.  That said, there are plenty of people doing much more than simply stating there is a problem, but they are vastly outnumbered by those who uselessly expend all of their energy trying to get people to recognize that the sky is blue and water is wet.

While a disturbing spike on the west side...lets make one thing clear...there is no "New East Side".  Nobody will ever rip the crown off of the east side, except maybe South Chicago. 

 

You must not travel a lot.

 

well, i do, but poor areas all over the country arent shoved in my face like what goes on in our city.  I lived in CHicago, so i saw the worst of that as well.

15 years ago we thought the answer was decentralizing public housing and section 8 in order to decentralize the poverty and its associated ills and therefore lift-up those in poverty by surrounding them with a diverse and productive population.  That a "rising tide would lift all". 

After some implementation of certain programs and a somewhat "non-planned" dispersion of section 8 (do to the worthless state of the local housing market), we are merely seeing much more "bad apples" pulling down the neighborhoods they have relocated to.  Truth is, this approach was explored a generation too late to succeed as a general approach. 

 

If anything is going to change with the trajectory of urban America and the black community, the damaging culture has to be dealt with above all.  It is well beyond the state of economy or available opportunities.

 

I've spent over 20 years working on this, frankly I'm spent. 

Neighborhoods need to take ownership, work with police and local officials and come up with solutions. 

 

Any ideas?  It's easy to piss and moan about needing "solutions"..... it's much harder to actually state what those solutions might be.  Platitudes don't help.  Realistic, pragmatic solutions to crime are difficult.  That said, there are plenty of people doing much more than simply stating there is a problem, but they are vastly outnumbered by those who uselessly expend all of their energy trying to get people to recognize that the sky is blue and water is wet.

 

I invite anyone who is interested in growing their neighborhood and tightening things up to swing by our block meeting.  Our block is the Edgewater Hill Block Club, a sub neighborhood of Gordon Square, we meet once a month on the second Monday Night.  We have grown our block and its very strong.  Not just in terms of community, but everyone knows one another, we have events, look out for one another, etc.  The exposure to one another has promoted a closeness and as a result our crime has just about flatlined.  We did have a stolen car over fall, and i believe a stolen package, but its tough to get away with anything right because eyes are everywhere, and when something looks off, we do something about it immediately.

BelievelandD1, thank you for saying that. 

As opposed to denying the issues (which only allows you to put blinders on as the neighborhood around goes completely down hill), you have mentioned one of the best ways that local citizens can contribute to stabilizing their neighborhood and keeping things at bay.  Its so vital in these situations to have a tight knit community, and that's one thing that I think Cleveland does well.  Its true there is strength in numbers, and it helps when communicating with local law enforcement as well as elected officials.   

^I don't recall anyone ever coming anywhere close to saying that crime is not a problem and should be ignored with the use of "blinders."  As far as the "black community" is concerned, the sooner everyone (particularly including the black community) stops treating it as a separate community with separate problems that need to be dealt with within the community, the better off it will be (now, of course, I'm speaking in platitudes since we know that won't happen during our lifetimes).

 

^^That's an admirable effort.  I'm not so sure about its effectiveness in non-Edgewater type neighborhoods in the City proper.  I think the community I live in does this well, although certainly not in such an organized manner..... but there is a good bit of self-policing through people knowing people and not being such strangers with their neighbors.  I just don't realistically see that happening on a larger scale.  Realistic solutions are going to have to come through programs that aren't dependent on volunteers.  I have mentioned making more effective use of police presence many times.  It's really the only model that has any historical success rate on a large scale that I know of.

Nor did I say that anybody said that.  Its a matter of simple observation. 

 

Ultimately, it is a problem most embedded in the black community that has certainly seen some aspects become disturbingly mainstream. 

There is also generally a disappointing attitude within the black community regarding this, little ownership or outrage that this is where things have gone.  My new black neighbors in Shaker and my olds ones in DC frankly don't understand how white people are not more racist... 

 

I know education has been an ever nagging piece but again, the quality is only a small piece of the issue at this point (and likely too late to change much anyway).

 

quote author=Hts121 link=topic=4065.msg687323#msg687323 date=1386709386]

^I don't recall anyone ever coming anywhere close to saying that crime is not a problem and should be ignored with the use of "blinders."  As far as the "black community" is concerned, the sooner everyone (particularly including the black community) stops treating it as a separate community with separate problems that need to be dealt with within the community, the better off it will be (now, of course, I'm speaking in platitudes since we know that won't happen during our lifetimes).

There is also generally a disappointing attitude within the black community regarding this, little ownership or outrage that this is where things have gone.  My new black neighbors in Shaker and my olds ones in DC frankly don't understand how white people are not more racist... 

 

Because enough of us know it's culture, not race.  Our co-workers are damned good people.  The first black families in the neighborhood?  The parents at least are just like us, hell probably better.  The media at least provides plenty of positive examples to go with the negative.

 

First of all, something has to be done about the “ghetto” culture.  For proof, one need look no further than the case of Damon Wells.  Other than the fact that he won the gunfight he was forced into, everything about that case was as bad as it could possibly get.  The community rather blatantly sided with what any civilized culture would call the “bad guy” and went after the guy who was involuntarily thrust into the role of “good guy”.  At best, the alleged “leadership” of both the city and the community  was too damn scared to say or do anything contrary to this.    This of course ties very directly into the idea of ownership.

 

A subculture this sick has to be fixed, or completely marginalized, before any of these efforts can succeed.  I’m going to assume no one here wants to do the latter, if there’s a choice.

 

One early step might be to return the idea of consequences.  Start diverting these repeat-yet-minor juvenile offenders in a different direction.  Buy up some farmland downstate, have some of the older ones start building barracks, and once that’s done start growing corn for ethanol production to fuel state vehicles.  Put these kids to work, have them go to school.  At least when they first get there, it’s a very regimented environment.  No room for establishing dominance, gang formation, etc. 

 

You won’t save them all.  Will you transform enough of them to reestablish a core that has a work ethic and decent values.  There’s a good chance of that.  Certainly what we have isn’t working.

 

Back home, it gets back to leadership.  The politicians need to stand against what hasn’t worked.  Likewise the nongovernmental community leaders.  The ministers in particular.  One thing I have noticed is the black Baptist churches are more likely to love the sinner than hate the sin, while their white counterparts are the opposite.  Start realizing more openly that while Mrs. Johnson is a fine upstanding woman, her nephew Demetrius is not a misunderstood good boy like she insists, but a cold callous thug that really needs to be incarcerated.  You may not convince her, but don’t act like she convinced you.

 

DuBois’s “Talented Tenth” has been a failure, in part because a healthy community does not need “leaders” as much as a dysfunctional one.  As Booker T. Washington has largely been vindicated, perhaps some of his proposals are worth a try.

 

 

Despite recent uptick in violence, Cleveland homicides are down from last year

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A spurt of violence across the city left five people dead in as many days, but the overall number of homicides in Cleveland is down significantly from this time last year.

According to statistics compiled by the Cleveland Division of Police Crime Analysis Unit, 77 homicides were reported in the city as of Tuesday morning. Compare that to Dec. 15 last year, when the city had counted 92 homicides, on its way to 99, according to police statistics.

 

Cleveland is on pace to see about 82 homicides in 2013, which would rank as the third lowest year's end total since 2006, statistics show.

 

With exactly three weeks left in 2013, even if the city continues to have one homicide every day through year's end, this year's homicide tally will be less than last year's - by one.

 

That the city is on pace for fewer homicides in 2013 is welcome news to City Hall, but Public Safety Director Martin Flask said each tally leaves its mark.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/despite_recent_uptick_in_viole.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

While I disagree with a lot of what former Mayor Mike White said and did, I agree 100% with him that: "The best social program is a job."

 

We have to make more jobs available and accessible to Clevelanders. It gives us "ownership" of our own lives, gives us a stake in the system, and even if the job isn't something to boast about, there is still a sense of personal pride in having work that pays the bills from the sweat of our own labor.

While I disagree with a lot of what former Mayor Mike White said and did, I agree 100% with him that: "The best social program is a job."

 

We have to make more jobs available and accessible to Clevelanders. It gives us "ownership" of our own lives, gives us a stake in the system, and even if the job isn't something to boast about, there is still a sense of personal pride in having work that pays the bills from the sweat of our own labor.

 

Agreed but these basic "jobs" just aren't that readily available anymore.  Obviously manufacturing has shrunk but so many other manual labor entry-level jobs are just being replaced by technology/automation.  We are in a knowledge based economy.  Just bringing a strong back & willingness to work is not enough.  People have to seek out training & education.  If you don't, you aren't qualified to do much of anything.

What is shown throughout the world and accross the races/cultures is that violent crime is bred out of economic despair and a feeling of hopelessness.  Whether it be Eastern Europe, Central Africa, the Middle-East, wherever.... violent crime is disproportionately committed by the have-nots.  Something like 70% of our inmates here in the USA don't have a HS diploma (this fact holds true in places like Montana for those who think this correlation does not cross racial/cultural lines).  Those who don't have HS diplomas almost uniformily had poor educational foundations from the start of early childhood.  Statistics have shown a measurable increase in felonies committted by those people who didn't have quality pre-school during their childhood.

 

Investing in programs like Head Start will not rid the country of crime.  Nothing will.  But it is an investment worth making and might have the best statistical evidence of actually making a difference.

 

Making the penalties harsher or lighter doesn't seem to be doing much anywhere.  Take for instance that states with the death penalty consistently over the years have higher murder rates than states without the death penalty.  And jails are essentially breeding grounds for criminals and gangs nowadays.  What 'Andy' from Shawshank Redemption said about having to go to jail to become a criminal probably has some truth to it in more cases than we care to admit.  I'm not arguing for lighter penalties, I'm simply suggesting that adjustments to the same have little (if any) effect.

While I disagree with a lot of what former Mayor Mike White said and did, I agree 100% with him that: "The best social program is a job."

 

We have to make more jobs available and accessible to Clevelanders. It gives us "ownership" of our own lives, gives us a stake in the system, and even if the job isn't something to boast about, there is still a sense of personal pride in having work that pays the bills from the sweat of our own labor.

 

Agreed but these basic "jobs" just aren't that readily available anymore.  Obviously manufacturing has shrunk but so many other manual labor entry-level jobs are just being replaced by technology/automation.  We are in a knowledge based economy.  Just bringing a strong back & willingness to work is not enough.  People have to seek out training & education.  If you don't, you aren't qualified to do much of anything.

 

And so the chasm in our society widens more every year.  The barrier of entry into the economy to make a living wage has never been higher (excluding depressions & recessions).  The social, financial, and emotional capital it requires to produce an 18 year old ready to participate in today's knowledge economy is a cost higher than human society has ever seen to this point.  If the capital is not there to produce said 18 year old, as most parents of these broken neighborhood do not, there is almost no chance they will enter adulthood as competitive workers.  With the disappearance of middle income jobs with lower barrier of entry, these kids don't have many paths to choose from.

 

While I agree with "the best social program is a job" statement, the jobs are simply not there in sufficient numbers.  So...I have to ask like Htsguy did - what the hell do we do?

 

Article on job growth: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/09/uneven-growth-high-and-low-wage-jobs-across-america/6937/

While I agree with "the best social program is a job" statement, the jobs are simply not there in sufficient numbers.  So...I have to ask like Htsguy did - what the hell do we do?

 

Article on job growth: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/09/uneven-growth-high-and-low-wage-jobs-across-america/6937/

 

Either train the poor or pay to move them to places that do have unskilled work.

While I agree with "the best social program is a job" statement, the jobs are simply not there in sufficient numbers.  So...I have to ask like Htsguy did - what the hell do we do?

 

Article on job growth: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/09/uneven-growth-high-and-low-wage-jobs-across-america/6937/

 

Either train the poor or pay to move them to places that do have unskilled work.

 

Fair answer - thanks

^^ paying to move the poor people away to places with jobs would not be popular and would probably be portrayed negatively, even racist. The media would go crazy with it.