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^^ paying to move the poor people away to places with jobs would not be popular and would probably be portrayed negatively, even racist. The media would go crazy with it.

 

Right - I think we have two real choices:

 

1. Train the poor by offering full "wrap around" services like Jeffery Canada's approach in the Harlem Children's Zone.  This has been proven one of the only transformative ways to tackle poverty by addressing it on every front.

Pros: Fixes poverty

Cons: Extremely expensive and politically unpopular with huge swaths of the county

 

or

 

2. Do nothing. (our default policy)

Pros: We don't have to do anything

Cons: American society cracks in half.

 

 

If you're not familiar, you can read about the Harlem Children's Zone here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Children's_Zone

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  • KFM44107
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    I wouldn't go as far as blaming the mayor. He's been around for four months and there's no way he's had time for the intricacies of the many departments he needs to fix. He certainly has atleast spent

  • The good neighborhoods are definitely nicer. More housing is being built in this city than at anytime in probably both our lives. Unless you were born in like the 50s.    I have seen absolut

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^^Frankly, I don't get the concept.  Where would we move them to?  China?  Mexico?

^^Frankly, I don't get the concept.  Where would we move them to?  China?  Mexico?

 

Yeah, the more I think about it - that doesn't really make sense.  Those countries have more low skilled workers than they know what to do with - why would they take more?  Logistics are a nightmare and it violates a basic sense of fairness.

^^Frankly, I don't get the concept.  Where would we move them to?  China?  Mexico?

 

Where ever they wanted within the USA. It's their choice. They can choose to use X amount of money to get training for a particular field or they can relocate for an available job.

 

It's not racism. It's classism. And the classism is to not give the poor a choice on their future. The classism is to keep the poor locked up in neighborhoods where they have no future and no way to change that fact. Nothing else has worked.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Not to sound too glum, but as much as people say crime is an issue, there doesn't seem to be much political will to address it in rational ways. We actually know of several policies likely to reduce crime, many of which gather dust: http://crimelab.uchicago.edu/page/know

^^Frankly, I don't get the concept.  Where would we move them to?  China?  Mexico?

 

Where ever they wanted within the USA. It's their choice. They can choose to use X amount of money to get training for a particular field or they can relocate for an available job.

 

It's not racism. It's classism. And the classism is to not give the poor a choice on their future. The classism is to keep the poor locked up in neighborhoods where they have no future and no way to change that fact. Nothing else has worked.

 

Its not my opinion, but the opinion of many.

 

Right now if John Kasich said he wanted to implement that exact plan, you know liberals and the african american community would be going crazy. It would be the Media's dream.

 

Personally I don't find anything wrong with the idea, besides that is probably wouldnt work  due to the lack of jobs everywhere in the country.

 

Its not my opinion, but the opinion of many.

 

Right now if John Kasich said he wanted to implement that exact plan, you know liberals and the african american community would be going crazy. It would be the Media's dream.

 

Personally I don't find anything wrong with the idea, besides that is probably wouldnt work  due to the lack of jobs everywhere in the country.

 

Ironically, Mayor Bloomberg proposed something similar, but I think that was for the homeless people. He was also ripped for it.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

I work in manufacturing and have for the bulk of the past 25 years.

 

There are manufacturing jobs out there.  However, they do require certain skills.  The unskilled stuff, assembly comes to mind, has been made even more unskilled through automation and through systems designed to make tasks as simple as possible:  illustrated directions, error proofing where the parts only fit together in one orientation, and things like that.  Those jobs can and are moved to low wage and low education parts of the globe.  It would be fiduciary neglect not to do so.

 

However….companies like machine shops are able to compete effectively with “local” competitors in Mexico and China.  The bulk of our automotive parts go there and are assembled into components that are, often enough,  shipped back here.  (Our firearms business is assembled here for political reasons as well as economic). 

 

Those jobs exist, but we have problems filling them.  The problem is basic education and values/work ethic education.  Dependability is a bigger issue than even the ability to follow directions, and the latter is not an insignificant issue.  Showing up for work, showing up on time, stuff like that. 

 

In my opinion, the whole “self esteem” thing in the schools is a big part of the problem.  It’s not just that the kids weren’t corrected when they messed up.  It’s that a lot of them don’t think anyone has any business doing so under any circumstances.  They believe that their opinions and feelings are just as important as anyone else’s, regardless of things like education and experience.  Paradoxically, when faced with a problem sometimes they go all “follow the leader”

 

They’re not all like this and certainly in many cases the issues are much subtler than I describe,  But the fact is we turned an unsuccessful plant around in a short period of time with a young bunch of late 80s early 90s HS graduates with no college or military experience, and I think you’d be really hard pressed to manage that today.

 

In general, I think it’s worse with young black men because they believe the deck is stacked against them.  Try raising a kid by saying “the powers that be hate you and you can’t beat them and you will always need our help” instead of “there’s roadblocks in your path and life isn’t fair, but you can beat it”.  See what happens.  It also leads to contempt, which IMO is more responsible for modern crime than desperation.

 

Possession of small amounts of illegal drugs should not be a permanent ticket into the underclass of unemployable convicts. People should get treatment and not have this "problem" handled by the courts and prisons.

 

Imprisonment of black men reminds me of the days of the "black codes" when unlucky black men were convicted on trumped up charges and then sold to  plantation owners. This started during Reconstruction and continued until the 20th century. There is some presumption that black people are gangsters by nature. Well, who were the first big time gangsters? What ethnic group was associated with organized crime? For that matter, does anybody remember Meyer Lansky??

^^I highly doubt anyone is teaching kids that they are screwed and there is no hope.  If anything, they are being given a distorted view via the "you can grow up to be anything you want to be" line...... no, you really can't be anything you want to be.  Everyone has their limitations.  They are learning that the hard way through life experience and it pisses them off..... which makes large portions of the lower class susceptible to the bad apples.  This is a major reason IMO why we see the majority of these crimes being committed by those young, 16-24 year olds who no longer see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I have a sister who teaches at a public school in Comptom.  She says out of a school of 400-500, she and her fellow teachers could name 20-30 kids who are effectively spoiling the whole lot.  Those kids need to be removed.  Not totally shoved out on the street a la the strategy seen "Lean on Me", but instead placed in programs like what Cleveland Heights used to have with Taylor Academy.  When I was in school, just the threat of being sent to Taylor was usually enough to straighten a kid out.

^^I highly doubt anyone is teaching kids that they are screwed and there is no hope.  If anything, they are being given a distorted view via the "you can grow up to be anything you want to be" line...... no, you really can't be anything you want to be.  Everyone has their limitations.  They are learning that the hard way through life experience and it pisses them off..... which makes large portions of the lower class susceptible to the bad apples.  This is a major reason IMO why we see the majority of these crimes being committed by those young, 16-24 year olds who no longer see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I have a sister who teaches at a public school in Comptom.  She says out of a school of 400-500, she and her fellow teachers could name 20-30 kids who are effectively spoiling the whole lot.  Those kids need to be removed.  Not totally shoved out on the street a la the strategy seen "Lean on Me", but instead placed in programs like what Cleveland Heights used to have with Taylor Academy.  When I was in school, just the threat of being sent to Taylor was usually enough to straighten a kid out.

 

Oh the kids themselves aren’t being taught that *they* are screwed up.  Not in the least.  They are being taught that the world is completely and irrevocably stacked against them.  It’s being presented not as a challenge, but an excuse.  It’s a pretty textbook example of a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

As for the small minority screwing things up for everyone, you’re starting to sound like me.  I’ve called them the “ignorance missionaries” before, because that’s pretty much what they are.  They have to be separated out, but the fact is way too many of them have parents who only step in if their kid is in trouble, and that’s to threaten to sue the school.  This is what happened at Maple Heights, by the way.

 

Your “Taylor Academy” and my downstate corn farm aren’t mutually exclusive, they’re complimentary.  Step One is the former.  CMSD used to have something like that, a friend of mine used to teach there.

 

As for the "black codes", we're really not trumping up charges.  If anything, they are reduced due to jail space.  Agreed on drugs. Hope I'm not hearing what I think I am about ethnic groups....

Oh man, my wife had so many students where unbelievably the parent or grandparent told them that, being black, they didn't have a chance to make it in society.

Oh man, my wife had so many students where unbelievably the parent or grandparent told them that, being black, they didn't have a chance to make it in society.

 

I might have said "taught" up there but I didn't necessarily mean in school.

 

Twenty years ago I had a black co-worker a little older than me.  The guy was no conservative and definitely had a racial mindset, but was big on personal responsibility.  Think Larry Fishburne in "Boyz N The Hood". 

 

As often happens, he was a surrogate dad of sorts to his sister's boys.  He was in quite the mood one day when the teenager had been acting up in school.  The kid told him that studying or learning anything was "acting white".  Paul replied to the kid (expletives omitted) that if the Klan could come up with one thing they wanted black kids to think, that would be it.  I guess it worked, some, for at least a little while.

 

It goes back to Washington and DuBois.  I wonder if that exchange is even discussed in public schools?

I know of a story where a guy would visit Cleveland elementary schools. He would ask the students what they wanted to do when they grew up. The top responses were Professional athletes, rappers, police/firefighters. The other top answers basically meant being in jail.  It's sad that at a such a young age these kids are already thinking this way. I believe it was second graders. Something needs to be done.

I know of a story where a guy would visit Cleveland elementary schools. He would ask the students what they wanted to do when they grew up. The top responses were Professional athletes, rappers, police/firefighters. The other top answers basically meant being in jail.  It's sad that at a such a young age these kids are already thinking this way. I believe it was second graders. Something needs to be done.

 

In jail, or dead at a ridiculously young age.

 

Chris Rock has said stuff that makes Bill Cosby's more controversial comments sound like Al Sharpton, but he gets away with it because of his delivery.  He's observed that among some,  there's sometimes more prestige associated with having done a stint in prison than a college degree.

 

You can't really blame racism.  Walter Williams has observed that a lot of this crap didn't happen when racism was real (not culturally based) and pervasive.  I'd blame the culture of dependency that has devolved into a culture of entitlement.

 

I believe the answer has to come from within the community.  Otherwise the best and brightest, and most responsible, will just continue to assimilate piecemeal as individuals and families.  That's not entirely healthy.

 

 

 

 

Just got a call about four recent armed robberies in East End of Lakewood.  Two at that Value World on Detroit, one at CVS on Clifton and W 117 and one near the railroad tracks at Detroit and Hird.

 

Suspect in the Value World pistol whipped the one victim, followed him out of the store to rob them.

 

 

 

 

All today? Have any arrests been made?

^ Don't have a time frame, was told they happened recently and that they have video of the one guy leaving CVS.

 

The only other details I was given involved the race of the victims and the assailants.  Since we don't talk about that here you'll have to use your imagination.

 

 

thats a very busy CVS, surprised that wasnt a deterrent.

Since we don't talk about that here you'll have to use your imagination.

 

We don't?  Since when?  Do you not read this thread often?  It is as much about race as it is about crime...... just review the past week or so.  Was some board rule released which I missed?

 

You may be confusing this Board's rules with the fairly common journalistic standard we've discussed before.  But I doubt it.  More likely, you are attacking the board with a strawman argument for whatever unknown motive.

" More likely, you are attacking the board with a strawman argument for whatever unknown motive."

 

Your right, I may have been conflating the media with the board however I thought the consensus of the board was that it was not worth discussing so it was an attempt to comply with what I interpreted as "the boards mores".

 

The notation was simply seeking to make the point that the racial makeup was the only other information that I was given.

 

 

I don't recall any such consensus.  As a matter of fact, I think only myself and one other poster agreed with the media's general guideline on the issue..... even though it seems to be accepted widely in the journalistic field.  I got the feeling that the overwhelming majority of commenters who posted on the issue thought race of the suspect should be identified each time the media reports on crimes.  Of course, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of members simply chose not to weigh in.  But, point being, there definitely was no consensus.  If you feel the information is useful, so that other members might be able to identify the suspects from amongst the metro's population and/or avoid contact with a particular skin color, I know of no board rule which would prevent you from sharing it.

One thing that's good--if it's on the Lakewood side of W117th the police will respond in force.  This perpetrator may not want to keep that up very long.

Its unfortunate, but I feel like we need this result to happen more often. Home invasions seem to becoming a huge problem.

 

Police: Cleveland home invasion victim shoots, kills suspect

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The victim of a home invasion on Cleveland’s East Side Tuesday morning opened fire on the two men who attempted to rob him, killing one suspect and sending the other to the hospital, police said.

 

The armed suspects approached 24-year-old Everton Mosby outside his Rudyard Road residence about 2 a.m. and ordered the victim inside, where they beat and pistol-whipped him, police said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/police_cleveland_home_invasion.html

What I find most unfortunate is that the deceased was out on the streets despite a record that should have kept him behind bars for many years?

Based on the description of the case, "Home Invasion" sounds like artistic license. 

Its unfortunate, but I feel like we need this result to happen more often. Home invasions seem to becoming a huge problem.

 

Police: Cleveland home invasion victim shoots, kills suspect

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The victim of a home invasion on Cleveland’s East Side Tuesday morning opened fire on the two men who attempted to rob him, killing one suspect and sending the other to the hospital, police said.

 

The armed suspects approached 24-year-old Everton Mosby outside his Rudyard Road residence about 2 a.m. and ordered the victim inside, where they beat and pistol-whipped him, police said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/police_cleveland_home_invasion.html

The survivor will be charged with murder for his accomplice's death.  Hopefully there's no plea bargain.

 

Also, if there's any Arthur Buford type demonstrations of sympathy with the deceased and/or antipathy towards Mosby, that needs to be nipped in the bud right away, by the "community leaders".

 

You can't build a viable community when such things are excused or condoned.

Thieves are getting more brazen. For the first time in the 17 years I've lived in my building, a condo unit was burglarized a couple weeks ago. Interestingly, about an hour after the Browns-Steelers game Nov. 24, someone tried to open the door to my condo but ran off before I could get to the door and see who it was. I don't know if was related.

 

But I'm sure the crime-reduction benefits of Ohio's conceal-carry law will take effect any day now and scare those criminals shitless. As if they care.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Thieves are getting more brazen. For the first time in the 17 years I've lived in my building, a condo unit was burglarized a couple weeks ago. Interestingly, about an hour after the Browns-Steelers game Nov. 24, someone tried to open the door to my condo but ran off before I could get to the door and see who it was. I don't know if was related.

 

But I'm sure the crime-reduction benefits of Ohio's conceal-carry law will take effect any day now and scare those criminals shitless. As if they care.

 

Concealed carry didn't really apply here.  Mosby was not armed when he got home.  The perpetrators forced him into the house, where he was able to get to his weapon.  In essence, the deceased died of dumb. 

 

What may apply is that anyone not specifically prescribed from owning a gun in the state of Ohio may have one in their home.  If I'm not mistaken, Cleveland used to require registration but Ohio made that illegal.

Please let's avoid a gun debate.

 

Back on topic, that's a shame KJP. Does your building have controlled entry?

 

Back on topic, that's a shame KJP. Does your building have controlled entry?

 

Yes. And video cameras. And big signs saying the property is under video surveillance.

 

But I guess when a criminal can't read or just doesn't care about his/her future, none of this matters.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^ that is crazy. Any info on whether the camera got a good shot of the person and whether or not they have been caught?

I forgot to mention that last week there were at least 2 break ins in between Clifton and Baltic.

 

One was on W 102 just S of Clifton.  Broke in back window, stole laptop. I think this occurred during the day.

 

The other was on W 106 just N of Baltic.  Cased the place, used a 30 min window after downstairs and upstairs were both out of the double to break in back door, pry bar, pried both back doors open.  Took laptops etc.  This one happened at 8:30 pm.

^ that is crazy. Any info on whether the camera got a good shot of the person and whether or not they have been caught?

 

Unknown. The board, our management company and our law firm are handling it.

 

BTW, a week or two ago, a resident went down to the basement and found a non-resident male sleeping in the laundry room. So all residents have been warned to be more careful about letting people into the building or making sure no one sneaks in while the garage door is still coming down. I've had to scare off kids from sneaking in every few years or so, so now I've become the grumpy old man yelling at kids "get out of my yard!"

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Nothing wrong with the grumpy old man stance.

 

I live in a building near Lake and West.  Earlier this year a very similar story - unknown guy sleeping in the laundry room.  Noticed police in the building in the morning as I was walking down to the garage to head to work.  They were "escorting" him out.  And about this time last year a resident was stabbed to death in the building next door by - - - you guessed it, someone who didn't reside there.

 

I am constantly diligent about securing my building.  I close doors that have been left propped open, I watch the garage as I enter and exit, and I make it a point to familiarize myself with the other residents - at least visually so that I've got a pretty good idea of when someone is around that doesn't belong.

 

Being the grumpy old man is a good thing where warrented.

I forgot to mention that last week there were at least 2 break ins in between Clifton and Baltic.

 

One was on W 102 just S of Clifton.  Broke in back window, stole laptop. I think this occurred during the day.

 

The other was on W 106 just N of Baltic.  Cased the place, used a 30 min window after downstairs and upstairs were both out of the double to break in back door, pry bar, pried both back doors open.  Took laptops etc.  This one happened at 8:30 pm.

 

Worrisome. Was considering buying a house very near there. Does this happen a lot? It showed up as a pretty safe area on crime maps that I looked at.

Several air conditioner units stolen in Ohio City. I guess that is a big thing over there in the winter as people don't necessarily notice right away.

Worrisome. Was considering buying a house very near there. Does this happen a lot? It showed up as a pretty safe area on crime maps that I looked at.

 

I'd like to hear DeanSheen's opinion, too, but from what my brother who lives at W. 112 and Clifton tells me, the neighborhood is still good.  There's been an uptick recently (including a homicide on 112 that sounded drug-related), but so far it's a blip.  I really hope that Matt Zone is proactive in protecting this area when he officially takes over from Westbrook, since it's one of the few areas of the city that have never really declined, but maybe that's a discussion for a different thread...

Worrisome. Was considering buying a house very near there. Does this happen a lot? It showed up as a pretty safe area on crime maps that I looked at.

 

I'd like to hear DeanSheen's opinion, too, but from what my brother who lives at W. 112 and Clifton tells me, the neighborhood is still good.  There's been an uptick recently (including a homicide on 112 that sounded drug-related), but so far it's a blip.  I really hope that Matt Zone is proactive in protecting this area when he officially takes over from Westbrook, since it's one of the few areas of the city that have never really declined, but maybe that's a discussion for a different thread...

 

It is still mostly good--but the bad elements are ranging further from the proverbial "other side of the tracks."  Lots more break-ins with cars and homes these days--but still no where near the volume of neighborhoods like Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway. 

A quick overview of crime in the area. You can tell where the safer pockets are. Reported crime within the past 90 days.

 

 

Well, the one we're looking at is right in the good area on that map, so I guess a couple break-ins aren't the end of the world.

Worrisome. Was considering buying a house very near there. Does this happen a lot? It showed up as a pretty safe area on crime maps that I looked at.

 

I'd like to hear DeanSheen's opinion, too, but from what my brother who lives at W. 112 and Clifton tells me, the neighborhood is still good.  There's been an uptick recently (including a homicide on 112 that sounded drug-related), but so far it's a blip.  I really hope that Matt Zone is proactive in protecting this area when he officially takes over from Westbrook, since it's one of the few areas of the city that have never really declined, but maybe that's a discussion for a different thread...

 

If you are considering moving to the area, join the local block club's Facebook page.  You can find them by searching for CBNA - Clifton Baltic Neighborhood Association which is mostly centered around the boundaries of  Clifton/Baltic - West Blvd./W110th.  There have been several events centered around the Baltic Children's Park and there are more planned in the coming year.  Regular meetings and events as well as local news.

 

Things are a little more dicey than they used to be but it all depends of course.  The W112th shooting a couple months ago, kids on bikes assaulting people on West Blvd. between Baltic and Clifton a couple years ago and I remember a few years back some drug dealers just happened to be chasing and shot each other at Baltic and West Blvd.

 

I've lived over there for 22 years, right in that pocket.  I like the neighborhood but you still have to take common sense precautions.  A recent CBNA campaign has been to leave your porch light on at night.  That's helpful for the resident and the people walking on the street.

 

If your shopping for houses over there, good luck.  Not sure what you are looking for but it's a slightly competitive market.  It's really nice that the Metroparks have come in and cleaned up the park.  Clifton blvd will be updated and completed by this time next year and we should have a new grocery store plus other amenities on the parcel at the corner of W117 & Clifton.

A quick overview of crime in the area. You can tell where the safer pockets are. Reported crime within the past 90 days.

 

 

 

Are Lakewood crimes not included, or is the line that stark?

 

Some serious concentrations on the violent crimes.  It would be interesting to break down if any bars are near each.

 

That section between 110th and 117th is all industrial.  I used to work there.

A quick overview of crime in the area. You can tell where the safer pockets are. Reported crime within the past 90 days.

 

 

 

Are Lakewood crimes not included, or is the line that stark?

 

 

No, this is for Cleveland only.

Worrisome. Was considering buying a house very near there. Does this happen a lot? It showed up as a pretty safe area on crime maps that I looked at.

 

I'd like to hear DeanSheen's opinion, too, but from what my brother who lives at W. 112 and Clifton tells me, the neighborhood is still good.  There's been an uptick recently (including a homicide on 112 that sounded drug-related), but so far it's a blip.  I really hope that Matt Zone is proactive in protecting this area when he officially takes over from Westbrook, since it's one of the few areas of the city that have never really declined, but maybe that's a discussion for a different thread...

 

If you are considering moving to the area, join the local block club's Facebook page.  You can find them by searching for CBNA - Clifton Baltic Neighborhood Association which is mostly centered around the boundaries of  Clifton/Baltic - West Blvd./W110th.  There have been several events centered around the Baltic Children's Park and there are more planned in the coming year.  Regular meetings and events as well as local news.

 

Things are a little more dicey than they used to be but it all depends of course.  The W112th shooting a couple months ago, kids on bikes assaulting people on West Blvd. between Baltic and Clifton a couple years ago and I remember a few years back some drug dealers just happened to be chasing and shot each other at Baltic and West Blvd.

 

I've lived over there for 22 years, right in that pocket.  I like the neighborhood but you still have to take common sense precautions.  A recent CBNA campaign has been to leave your porch light on at night.  That's helpful for the resident and the people walking on the street.

 

If your shopping for houses over there, good luck.  Not sure what you are looking for but it's a slightly competitive market.  It's really nice that the Metroparks have come in and cleaned up the park.  Clifton blvd will be updated and completed by this time next year and we should have a new grocery store plus other amenities on the parcel at the corner of W117 & Clifton.

 

Competitive, maybe, but we got it! :)

  • 2 weeks later...

Another home break-in in Ohio City, but the victim was home this time which is even worse. The man was tied up and pistol-whipped. Luckily he is alright. The neighborhood needs a bigger police presence.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/442526029113236?ref=br_tf

Another home break-in in Ohio City, but the victim was home this time which is even worse. The man was tied up and pistol-whipped. Luckily he is alright. The neighborhood needs a bigger police presence.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/442526029113236?ref=br_tf

 

I saw that.  It sounds like they have some solid suspects.

 

Where are the police going to come from?  How will they be paid for?

 

What Cuyahoga County needs are judges willing to put habitual offenders away for a long time.

^Same questions would be asked.  Where is the jail space going to come from?  Who is going to pay for it?

 

You'd also need to address sentencing guidelines.  Regardless, I doubt you would find much probative evidence to suggest that having a take-no-sh!t judge has much effect on crime.  Just take a look at Euclid during the times of 'Stick-em-Nickum'

 

I think one repeated theme in most of these "why wasn't this guy still in jail" scenarios is a complete and utter failure in the mental health sector of the rehabilitation system.  I sometimes look up the past court dockets of these repeat offenders and it appears at simple glance that the mental health programs and follow up is poorly done once the sentencing guidelines force these individuals back out on the street.

^Same questions would be asked.  Where is the jail space going to come from?  Who is going to pay for it?

 

You'd also need to address sentencing guidelines.  Regardless, I doubt you would find much probative evidence to suggest that having a take-no-sh!t judge has much effect on crime.  Just take a look at Euclid during the times of 'Stick-em-Nickum'

 

I think one repeated theme in most of these "why wasn't this guy still in jail" scenarios is a complete and utter failure in the mental health sector of the rehabilitation system.  I sometimes look up the past court dockets of these repeat offenders and it appears at simple glance that the mental health programs and follow up is poorly done once the sentencing guidelines force these individuals back out on the street.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Niccum was a municipal court judge who sent felonies to Cuyahoga Common Pleas.

 

I'd go back to the work-farm idea for early offenders to keep them from simply turning prison into a higher education for crime experience.

 

As for mental health, I largely agree....but that would mean a return to institutionalization in many cases.  Some mentally ill people actually prefer being that way to taking their meds, or take too many of them at once and run out later.

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