Ever notice how it is usually the shorter, skinnier kids who get sucked in to this kind of nonsense?

 

Thanks for the videos all over youtube, fellas.  That was probably the easiest indictment the prosecutors are going to get this year.

Ever notice how it is usually the shorter, skinnier kids who get sucked in to this kind of nonsense?

 

Thanks for the videos all over youtube, fellas.  That was probably the easiest indictment the prosecutors are going to get this year.

 

They may not even be that short/skinny for their age considering they don't look a day over 13 years old.

^I was hardly limiting the comment to the kids in that video, but I would guess those specific kids are older than 13.  Although I would hate to give them more 'hits', check out some of their other videos.  Most of them kind of fit that mold.  They certainly are not the more athletic/muscular looking types.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  Strength in numbers is especially appealing to those with LMD

I hope this plow-truck driver experiences months of restless nights over this.  Grow a pair and be a man!

 

Cleveland cops shoot man with a Taser after he hops into driver's seat of a squad car

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Cleveland police shot a 36-year-old man with a stun gun in the driver's seat of a police cruiser after a violent fight with his girlfriend, according to a police report.

 

* * * * *

 

The woman lost control on the snow-covered road and crashed into a traffic control box at the intersection of East 30th Street from Payne Avenue. Richards appeared at her window within seconds. He grabbed a jack from the bed of the truck and smashed the window, spraying broken glass into the cab.

 

A plow truck approached, distracting Richards long enough for the woman to escape. She ran to the plow to ask for help, but the driver wouldn't let her in. Richards came from behind, grabbed her by the neck and threw her to the snow-covered pavement. He started punching her.

 

A police sergeant was about a block away when dispatchers broadcast that a man was in the road beating a woman. He pulled up and saw the woman clinging to the plow and Richards punching her in the face.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_cops_shoot_man_with.html

I have to think that the driver is not permitted by terms of his employment to let anyone else into the plow truck. I obviously think extreme circumstances would warrant making a different choice but a lot of people are not willing to get themselves into trouble by helping someone else. But he should have gotten out and tried to stop the guy, you know? Pretty awful to just stay inside your truck and call.

Good luck to the public relations department of any company who would terminate or even discipline a driver for opening the door of the truck to a woman in such a state of distress.  If the driver is a union guy or otherwise under contract, there would be no 'just cause' presented.  If he was an 'at-will' employee, he still would likely be safe because of the exception under Ohio law for termination which offend public policy - e.g. your boss terminates you for jury duty. 

Completely agree. But I'm sure many are uninformed about stuff like that and fear of losing the job takes precedence over helping a stranger. which is a real shame.

 

I wonder if there is more to the story. What if the driver was scared the nutty dude would also get in to the plow truck and that could be a disaster. We weren't there, it's hard to say. It looks on the surface like a really bad decision but it probably wasn't as simple as just popping open the door and letting her in and then going on their way. I'd like to know more about the story, but probably never will.

 

Just like I'd like to know more about the story of the elderly woman who was raped at the Westerly last week in Lakewood, but zero information has been forthcoming.

Or he could have been in a panic after stumbling upon a violent crime instead of a traffic accident, and feared for his safety. Possibly even fearing the woman trying to get into his vehicle.

 

(^ yeah all that stuff from RnR that I should have refreshed this page for)

I'm sure it was because he feared for HIS safety.  That's no excuse in my book.  Maybe I was raised differently.

Completely agree. But I'm sure many are uninformed about stuff like that and fear of losing the job takes precedence over helping a stranger. which is a real shame.

 

I wonder if there is more to the story. What if the driver was scared the nutty dude would also get in to the plow truck and that could be a disaster. We weren't there, it's hard to say. It looks on the surface like a really bad decision but it probably wasn't as simple as just popping open the door and letting her in and then going on their way. I'd like to know more about the story, but probably never will.

 

Just like I'd like to know more about the story of the elderly woman who was raped at the Westerly last week in Lakewood, but zero information has been forthcoming.

 

There's so many ways this could have gone horribly wrong for the plow driver.  Even cops hate responding to domestic disputes more than anything else. 

Maybe that is why some self-defense instructors teach women to scream "fire" instead of "help" or "rape".  A bunch of heroes come running to a fire.

 

http://www.justyellfire.com/

Yes, I heard that a long time ago. Sad.

wow WTF.

 

7 dead in 12 hours?

Not a very good day. Not good at all. The two guys shot in the car from behind sounds like a gangland-style execution. I couldn't even hazard a guess at what the four-person shooting was all about. A horrible Friday night.

And now a 12 year old shot by police.

And now a 12 year old shot by police.

 

And now a 12 year old who was in possession of a bb gun that looked like a real pistol and was waving it around at people in a public space was shot by police when he refused to comply and surrender the weapon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now a 12 year old who was in possession of a bb gun that looked like a real pistol and was waving it around at people in a public space was shot by police when he refused to comply and surrender the weapon.

 

Yep, the devil is in the details - unfortunately the 12 year old died but of course, "where are the parents"?

And now a 12 year old shot by police.

 

And now a 12 year old who was in possession of a bb gun that looked like a real pistol and was waving it around at people in a public space was shot by police when he refused to comply and surrender the weapon.

 

And indeed reached for it when the cops confronted him.

I really don't understand how you don't get that if the cops tell you to put your hands up, you do it. I don't care if you think it's unfair or a police state, call the ACLU later and avoid getting shot now.

I really don't understand how you don't get that if the cops tell you to put your hands up, you do it. I don't care if you think it's unfair or a police state, call the ACLU later and avoid getting shot now.

He was 12 years old, not an adult.

My kid is 5. He already knows you do whatever police tell you to do.

^^ So where were his parents or guardians?

Most parents of 12 year olds are not by their side every second. By 12, you would think they'd know without you having to be there that when an officer tells you to put your hands up, you do it.

 

I know info is still coming out about this, but from what I read, he removed or scratched out whatever the orange safety tip is on this thing that brands it as "not real." What would the reason be that you'd have to do that, unless you were hoping someone thinks you've got a real gun? Well guess what, that includes the police. It's a lot of bad choices here. But from the info I've seen thus far, I don't see how this is anything other than officer's following protocol. You see a weapon, you tell someone to put their hands up, they reach for it, and you fire. I think it's very unfortunate the child died, following very unfortunate choices to mock up a BB gun so it looked like a real gun and then choose to reach for it instead of following officer direction, but I don't see this as an officer screw up.

^^ So where were his parents or guardians?

 

They already have an attorney.  Probably some guy who was at the site handing out business cards.

I think it's very unfortunate the child died, following very unfortunate choices to mock up a BB gun so it looked like a real gun and then choose to reach for it instead of following officer direction, but I don't see this as an officer screw up.

 

Nobody here is saying it was an officer screw up.  What's with the impulsive blaming of the kid and his parents, though?  I'm sorry, but that's just as myopic as reflexively blaming the officer would be.  None of us were there, and we don't know exactly what happened.  In fact, all we know is that this is a tragedy, and all of this speculation about what this kid was thinking doesn't help anyone.

 

And speaking of tragedies, SEVEN people were killed on the east side this weekend in circumstances that are far more common in Cleveland than police shootings.  At the core of all of these shootings is a culture that condones violence as a means for resolving conflict.  It's not nearly as convenient to protest or hold individuals accountable for, but it's a serious issue that nobody seems to be able to address.

At the core of all of these shootings is a culture that condones violence as a means for resolving conflict.  It's not nearly as convenient to protest or hold individuals accountable for, but it's a serious issue that nobody seems to be able to address.

 

Yep.

I really, really hope Cleveland doesn't turn into Ferguson now.... even though I guess I wouldn't blame people if it did.

 

I just saw on WKYC that the orange tip of the airsoft gun had been removed... that's a very tough situation.

I really, really hope Cleveland doesn't turn into Ferguson now.... even though I guess I wouldn't blame people if it did.

 

I just saw on WKYC that the orange tip of the airsoft gun had been removed... that's a very tough situation.

 

What are you talking about?  What about this case (besides a black kid getting killed by a police officer) overlaps with what we know about the Ferguson incident?

(besides a black kid getting killed by a police officer)

 

That's pretty much the overlap I was talking about. Yes, the kid was waving what appeared to be gun in the air, which makes the situation a little different than the Ferguson situation.

 

I'm not taking a side over whether or not the officer was justified... I can see both sides. However, the kid was 12, which is extremely jarring, and it ended up being a fake gun. Considering those two facts, I certainly think that there are plenty of people that are going to think the shooting was unjustified, and with Trayvon Martin and now Michael Brown, tension about these police shootings is at a boiling point, I don't think that protests and unrest in Cleveland is outside of the realm of possibility. Which would be terrible and I hope it doesn't happen, although the real damage is already done because a 12 year old kid is dead.

 

I am guilty of a sort of NIMBYism here because I think the uproar about these shootings is good in that it is bringing this issue to the national discussion. I just would hate to see it happen in Cleveland and undo or endanger some of the great progress that is happening right now not too far from where that shooting took place.

This is most like Beaver Creek. Except this kid may have actually been pointing the gun at people.

This is most like Beaver Creek. Except this kid may have actually been pointing the gun at people.

What do you think play guns are for???

I dont particularly view bb guns as toys to be pointed at people. I viewed my peers that used them to terrorize and kill small animals as sadistic and cruel.

It was an airsoft gun, which shoots little plastic BB's that wouldn't hurt anyone.  They're often used for "plinking" which is to say, shooting at each other.  They're detailed replicas, and it since the orange cap was taken off, it would look pretty much perfectly like a real pistol.

Why does the police keep saying he was a young man? From the interviews I saw.

Careful not to jump the gun one way or the other on this one based purely on preliminary reports, folks.  Some of the commenting I have seen on this incident (on other sites) is absolutely shameful and legitimately has me concerned for where we stand as a nation.

 

My kid is 5. He already knows you do whatever police tell you to do.

 

Be careful with that advice.  Very careful

 

 

 

^^ So where were his parents or guardians?

 

They already have an attorney.  Probably some guy who was at the site handing out business cards.

 

Guy could lose his license for doing that.  Believe it or not, people in the inner city know attorneys too.

 

As for where his parents were, he was a 12 year old at a community rec center.

 

As for where his parents were, he was a 12 year old at a community rec center.

 

At a Rec Center with what appeared to be a real gun.  The parents should have taught him that you don't leave their own property with a gun of any kind.  That's where the parents should have been.

They should have.... but how do you know they did not?  My mom taught me never to play with BB guns, especially after a neighbor of mine had his eye shot out when we were kids, but that didn't stop more than a few of us from playing 'hunt games' in the nearby ravine with each other in the winter when we could pack on the layers of clothes.  Did you never break a rule when you were a kid?

 

Allow me to pre-empt the ignorant responses.  No, I am NOT (please take careful note of that word) 'making excuses' for this kid.  What he did was incredibly stupid and dangerous.  He is not without fault for his own death no matter how the details play out.  And oh yeah, ARGGGHHHHH!!!!!  Let me know if I need to be any clearer than that.

They should have.... but how do you know they did not?  My mom taught me never to play with BB guns, especially after a neighbor of mine had his eye shot out when we were kids, but that didn't stop more than a few of us from playing 'hunt games' in the nearby ravine with each other in the winter when we could pack on the layers of clothes.  Did you never break a rule when you were a kid?

 

I ignored my mother and broke tons of rules, including playing in a ravine in the winter with BB guns.  The difference for you and I was--if confronted by a law enforcement officer we certainly wouldn't have taken the gun out and pointed it at him.  We may very well have turned and run the other way, but I can probably speak for the both of us that we wouldn't have acted in any sort of macho bravado manner.  We would have been scared $hitless kids. And not scared of the police, but of what our moms and dads were going to do when they brought us home.  While of course we do not know all the facts yet, that, to me, is the difference.

He didn't point it at the cops.  The cops have admitted that much.  Where did you get that from?  So many assumptions being made here.  Sheesh.  The cops said he reached for the gun, which was in his waistband, but did not point it at them.  My guess, and that is all it is, would be that his instinctual reaction was to grab the gun and toss it and then, as you say you yourself might have done, run away.  He knew he was in trouble.  He was probably scared sh!tless, both of the cops and what might happen to him at home if the cops brought him there and told his parents what he was doing.  Imagine how perfectly you would have reacted had the cops come running at you with their guns drawn.

 

EDIT: I am not implying the cops should not have approached him with their weapon drawn.  Although the 911 caller told the dispatcher he thought it was a fake gun, that message was never relayed to the responding officers for whatever reason..... even still, they would have approached him in the same manner, although maybe with a little less anxiety about the whole thing.  One detail which might become relevant is one of the cops was a rookie.  The other was a 10 year veteran.  Only one of them fired shots.

It's definitely very plausible that the kid was trying to toss the airsoft gun. We will never know for sure but why else would he reach for it? To shoot the officers with plastic pellets?

 

Also, what is up with Cleveland 911 dispatchers? They didn't look so good during the Amanda Berry thing and now they failed to notify the police that the caller said the gun was probably fake. That is two national stories in two years where they have messed up or at least looked bad.

^Civilianization of dispatch centers is a cause for concern.  Privatization of dispatch centers is even more reason to worry.

 

It's definitely very plausible that the kid was trying to toss the airsoft gun. We will never know for sure but why else would he reach for it? To shoot the officers with plastic pellets?

 

Certainly a helluva lot more plausible than the thought that he was reaching into his waistband to pull it out and aim it at the cops as if to say "no, you drop your weapons, pigs!"

^Civilianization of dispatch centers is a cause for concern.  Privatization of dispatch centers is even more reason to worry.

 

It's definitely very plausible that the kid was trying to toss the airsoft gun. We will never know for sure but why else would he reach for it? To shoot the officers with plastic pellets?

 

Certainly a helluva lot more plausible than the thought that he was reaching into his waistband to pull it out and aim it at the cops as if to say "no, you drop your weapons, pigs!"

 

The cops did not know that, though.  They did not eve know it was a BB gun, because it did not have the safety tip.

 

Even if the dispatcher had said it "might" be fake, they would have had to err on the side of caution.

Huh?  Nobody claimed that the cops knew it was fake.  That much is clear that they were not made aware it was fake.  And, yes, even if the dispatcher had relayed that it might be fake, they still would err on the side of caution, but they also would've been more mindful of the possibility that it was indeed fake.  There are countless examples nationwide of police approaching armed suspects who refuse to put the gun down (or are hesitant at first to do so) but are not shot dead.  How about those Cliven Bundy supporters who actually aimed their weapons at law enforcement?  Would the cops have been justified in shooting them on he spot?  How about those idiots who open carry semi-automatic rifles into a restaurant?  What happens when they don't immediately comply with police orders to drop their weapon?  Don't let your stereotypes guide you to some preferred conclusion here.  There is a lot of evidence which we simply won't know for a long time.

 

On a related note, I wonder what is taking Breitbart and all of those websites so long to break into this kid's facebook page and start circulating the most incriminating photos they can find.  Any word on their progress?  Apparently, he had no juvenile record, so no luck there.

Apparently it's all on tape: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/cleveland-shot-boy/19471925/

 

I think this officer can clearly make the case that he felt his life was in danger and avoid any charges. It's all about the court of public opinion on this one... the kid is 12... and that might not go as smoothly.

 

I am just trying to imagine if a kid brought an airsoft gun without the tip to my hometown city park in Mayfield Heights. I grew up with plenty of idiots who took the orange tips off their airsoft guns and thought they were sweet because of it. Hell, it probably happens a lot... it just never makes the news because nobody dies.

Looks like Manziel and his entourage beat the living hell out of some drunk guy at the 9. One of his boys also punched one of the building's security guards. Criminal charges highly likely.

^^Certainly.  But it is going to be awhile before that video is released.  As for what might've happened when you were kid, I don't know how old you are, but judging from the 'mu2010' I assume you are quite a bit younger than me.  When I was a kid in the 80's, there were actually quite a few of these types of tragedies which led to the laws requiring bright orange tips on toy guns.  When I was 10 or so, you could buy a cap-gun revolver or rifle which looked just like the real thing.

 

EDIT(ed to add): one thing to watch for as this story develops is if it was indeed the rookie who fired the shots, questions will be raised if he was a recent combat veteran from the Afghan or Iraq wars.  To get a job with the Cleveland Police Department, you need to get extra credit / bonus points on your entrance examination.  A perfect 100% without those bonus points won't get you high enough on the list to be certified to the appointing authority for consideration as the top several hundred candidates will only be separated by a few points.  You can get 10 points for being a bona fide city resident (even though State law now says you don't have to maintain your residency to keep your job once hired).  Most new hires received those 10 points.  The other common way, which is often piggy-backed with the 10 point residency bonus, is receiving 5 points for being a military veteran.  Upwards of several thousand candidates will take a test from which they are going to hire 50-100 candidates.  Many of the top scorers are both City residents and military veterans.  How well the department screens for PTSD, especially the troops coming from war zones where children of this age were very actual threats to commit the equivalent of suicide-by-cop, could develop into a major story.  Just speculation on my part at this point as we don't even know if it was the rookie or not.

Looks like Manziel and his entourage beat the living hell out of some drunk guy at the 9. One of his boys also punched one of the building's security guards. Criminal charges highly likely.

 

Looks like the "victim"may have been involved in a money laundering scam with his family not too long ago.  Not too smart to drunkenly stumble up to a celeb with obvious security with the intent of"hugging" him. You could be carrying a weapon...

If Johnny threw punches...

 

http://deadspin.com/report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-huge-brawl-after-fan-1662687093

 

 

 

If Johnny threw punches...

 

http://deadspin.com/report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-huge-brawl-after-fan-1662687093

 

EDIT: one of the commenters made a really good point.  How could this have happened late Saturday night when the Browns were playing in Atlanta Sunday morning?

 

 

 

It happened on Friday night.

If Johnny threw punches...

 

http://deadspin.com/report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-huge-brawl-after-fan-1662687093

 

EDIT: one of the commenters made a really good point.  How could this have happened late Saturday night when the Browns were playing in Atlanta Sunday morning?

 

 

 

It happened on Friday night.

 

KJP you're too quick...I think I may have had that post up for 20-30 seconds before I realized my error and scrubbed it!!