July 9, 20222 yr Author Here's what I've got so far...... Megaproject candidates — a partial list By Ken Prendergast / July 8, 2022 While a complete list of applicants for so-called “megaproject” tax credits won’t be available until sometime next week, NEOtrans has learned who a few of the local applicants are and aren’t, including at least one surprise. The deadline was today at 5 p.m. for submitting applications to the Ohio Department of Development for the second round of Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credits that could total $100 million. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/07/08/megaproject-candidates-a-partial-list/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 18, 20222 yr I'm wondering how soon we'll get a definitive list of the TMUD applicants from the latest round.
July 18, 20222 yr Author 15 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I'm wondering how soon we'll get a definitive list of the TMUD applicants from the latest round. I keep bugging them. Latest was Friday afternoon when Ohio Department of Development hadn't compiled and summarized the list of projects yet. If I don't hear anything by Wednesday afternoon, I'll bug 'em again. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 18, 20222 yr https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/new-owner-avon-lake-power-plant-has-big-vision-citys-lakefront?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=crainscleveland&utm_content=27dc0167-d169-4fbe-90be-e7fd5ca5d09fAmazing how you can design a whole new lake front development and they still pull a road up to it…
July 18, 20222 yr 21 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/new-owner-avon-lake-power-plant-has-big-vision-citys-lakefront?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=crainscleveland&utm_content=27dc0167-d169-4fbe-90be-e7fd5ca5d09f Amazing how you can design a whole new lake front development and they still pull a road up to it… The City of Avon Lake destroyed that beach 10+ years ago with their ill-advised erosion control. They literally built a seawall when the only thing in danger from erosion was a rusted chain link fence. Edited July 18, 20222 yr by surfohio
July 19, 20222 yr Author Redirected from the SHW HQ thread... 1 hour ago, deanhorn said: What would be considered a high rise? To me, for Cleveland (in feet): high rise: > 350 mid rise: 200 to 350 low rise: < 200 So, these planned buildings would be greater than 350 feet? In your definition, probably two or three would be. For downtown Cleveland (standards are less for neighborhoods, IMHO), I consider 100 feet or less low-rise, 100-200 feet mid-rise, and 200+ feet high-rise. But I don't start calling something a skyscraper until we get to 350/400+. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 19, 20222 yr Low-rises surrounding SHW would be fine. They would blend in nicely with the existing warehouse buildings. That is what Weston had proposed. Edited July 19, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd
July 19, 20222 yr An ad for this keeps popping up on my FB and I always thought something like this would be perfect for the warehouse district.
July 19, 20222 yr Downtown’s tallest buildings give way to the low rise structures of the warehouse district suddenly. I’d love to see even a couple high rise buildings to the west of SW - it would help balance the skyline and extend the downtown vibe. Residential towers there would have amazing views of the lake, western sunsets and the cityscape. Edited July 19, 20222 yr by CleveFan
July 19, 20222 yr That photo shows what I think is a perfect height for residential in the Warehouse District. I like the look too. 6 or 7 of something along those lines in the District would pretty much finish off the place and finally create a complete neighborhood. And the best thing is it's completely doable because buildings around that height aren't nearly as expensive as trying to add...say, a 25-30 story structure like the Luman or Beacon.
July 20, 20222 yr On 7/18/2022 at 11:37 AM, KJP said: I keep bugging them. Latest was Friday afternoon when Ohio Department of Development hadn't compiled and summarized the list of projects yet. If I don't hear anything by Wednesday afternoon, I'll bug 'em again. Gee wiz. How hard could it be just to provide a list of the names of the entities which timely filed applications and then follow up at a later date with more detailed project and application information if that is going to take a while. Of course the names of the applicants would mean little to the general public but for all us little elves on the forum it would be a gold mine.
July 20, 20222 yr 9 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Gee wiz. How hard could it be just to provide a list of the names of the entities which timely filed applications and then follow up at a later date with more detailed project and application information if that is going to take a while. Of course the names of the applicants would mean little to the general public but for all us little elves on the forum it would be a gold mine. This is Ohio where they have to wait for the lobbyist bribe checks to clear....
July 22, 20222 yr Author Nope. I bugged them again on Wednesday and they didn't even open my email. Probably tired of hearing from me. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 22, 20222 yr 6 minutes ago, KJP said: Nope. I bugged them again on Wednesday and they didn't even open my email. Probably tired of hearing from me. Is it possible that they put you on IGNORE because they don't want the general public to know the list of applicants. Do they have to provide the info if requested?
July 22, 20222 yr Author 2 minutes ago, simplythis said: Is it possible that they put you on IGNORE because they don't want the general public to know the list of applicants. Do they have to provide the info if requested? Yes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 20222 yr Formal public record request. Ideally should have to respond in some fashion in three days.
July 28, 20222 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 28, 20222 yr https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/ohios-tax-credit-program-transformational-deals-sees-318-million-requests?utm_source=afternoon-report&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20220728&utm_content=article1-headline While we wait for Ken's article, Crains has some good details too. Lots of repeats from round 1 it seems
July 28, 20222 yr Still some very worthy projects - I’d love to see the Erieview Tower remake to a W Hotel, residential and a new top floor restaurant happen. Erieview has never lived up to its original expectations but this plan would really kick start the district and infuse new life to this downtown neighborhood.
July 28, 20222 yr Will be interesting to see how those second attempt projects fair and whether they learned anything from the previous go around.
July 28, 20222 yr Author OMG my computer is so horribly slow. I would've gotten this done hours ago.... Ohio megaproject applications released By Ken Prendergast / July 28, 2022 When real estate developer Bob Stark thought up the Ohio Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credit several years ago, he envisioned it as a means to transition from tapping historic tax credits for renovating old buildings in downtown Cleveland to affording the construction of new ones. His rationale was that, with the supply of obsolete commercial buildings dwindling to provide new residential inventory, a new financial incentive would be needed to overcome Cleveland’s high construction costs and low rents to satisfy downtown housing demand. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/07/28/ohio-megaproject-applications-released/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 29, 20222 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: OMG my computer is so horribly slow. I would've gotten this done hours ago.... Ohio megaproject applications released By Ken Prendergast / July 28, 2022 When real estate developer Bob Stark thought up the Ohio Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credit several years ago, he envisioned it as a means to transition from tapping historic tax credits for renovating old buildings in downtown Cleveland to affording the construction of new ones. His rationale was that, with the supply of obsolete commercial buildings dwindling to provide new residential inventory, a new financial incentive would be needed to overcome Cleveland’s high construction costs and low rents to satisfy downtown housing demand. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/07/28/ohio-megaproject-applications-released/ The flats project would be great. Those buildings could use a good renovation. It would really bring the flats to life.
July 29, 20222 yr I feel like this tax credit is the lifeline, and maybe only option, for financing the Hall of Fame Village in Canton. So I am expecting that to get the credits it seeks. Otherwise, a little extra hope from me (other than just being a suburban project) that Valor Acres doesn't get it after pulling the SHW R&D away from Cleveland.
July 29, 20222 yr Pulling for Bridgeworks due to the connectivity it will help create between downtown and the W25th neighborhoods. Plus i really dig the design - it has a mid-century vibe that ties it too 55 PS and that recently refurbished building by WEWS. Yet still feels modern too - and overall right for Cleveland.
July 29, 20222 yr The Solon and Brecksville projects: Let’s move to suburbia, realize it sucks, then attempt to create a cool urban environment. I pray they get $0.00
July 29, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, HGRHS said: I feel like this tax credit is the lifeline, and maybe only option, for financing the Hall of Fame Village in Canton. Doesn't the NFL make like 10+ billion a year? I feel like they should be financing this.
July 29, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, HGRHS said: I feel like this tax credit is the lifeline, and maybe only option, for financing the Hall of Fame Village in Canton. So I am expecting that to get the credits it seeks. Otherwise, a little extra hope from me (other than just being a suburban project) that Valor Acres doesn't get it after pulling the SHW R&D away from Cleveland. So far the HoF project has done little to show that it is a trustworthy project. It is constantly running into financing issues while at the same time releasing new plans and dreams. I believe the last I heard was Johnson Controls was wanting to end their relationship with the HoF Village. I really don't think the project will get the money and personally I don't think they have shown that they deserve the money.
July 29, 20222 yr 17 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said: So far the HoF project has done little to show that it is a trustworthy project. It is constantly running into financing issues while at the same time releasing new plans and dreams. I believe the last I heard was Johnson Controls was wanting to end their relationship with the HoF Village. I really don't think the project will get the money and personally I don't think they have shown that they deserve the money. I certainly agree it should not, and with the issues you raised (which is my guess why it seems like the NFL isn't interested in financing it), but that's why I suggested it would, as this may be its only hope. Edited July 29, 20222 yr by HGRHS
July 29, 20222 yr Jesus Christ, give Bridgeworks the money already. I was at the HOF and they are in the middle of constructing something large. I just assumed the village was underway.
July 29, 20222 yr Author 7 hours ago, Silent Matt said: Jesus Christ, give Bridgeworks the money already. I was at the HOF and they are in the middle of constructing something large. I just assumed the village was underway. Some has already been built including the office building. But that's a very big ask they're making of the general TMUD category...more than 75 percent of the amount available for non-big city projects statewide. In the first round, the state did not provide partial awards except in one case. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 29, 20222 yr 10 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Riverfront parking lot. Awesome. Isn't that the lot that the Metroparks just acquired in the spring?
July 29, 20222 yr Author Yes. Site of past, ill-fated developments like this one from the 90s... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 29, 20222 yr ^ Don't remember that project at all. But housing above parking with an extension of the boardwalk would be awesome in my book. As for the TMUD credits if I had to choose I'd rank the (George) Flat's development first followed by Bridgeworks a close second. Like most of you I'm not a fan of the George family but if the plan as configured gets built it would make for a long seamless east side of the Flat's and I'm thinking the sum would be greater than the parts. Then maybe we'd get high-rise housing on that little lot next to the river. Density!
July 29, 20222 yr On 7/28/2022 at 1:55 PM, dwolfi01 said: :( I’m encouraged that none of the projects we’ve heard from @KJPand other forumers that are percolating applied. It indicates to me they can finance their plans without the help of a TMUD.
July 29, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, Sapper Daddy said: I’m encouraged that none of the projects we’ve heard from @KJPand other forumers that are percolating applied. It indicates to me they can finance their plans without the help of a TMUD. I don't know if "percolating" projects would qualify for a TMUD. The agency seems favor projects that are already started or are shovel ready and need a boost to get them over the finish line.
July 29, 20222 yr 15 minutes ago, Htsguy said: I don't know if "percolating" projects would qualify for a TMUD. The agency seems favor projects that are already started or are shovel ready and need a boost to get them over the finish line. True but I believe another criteria of the TMUD was to demonstrate it’s necessity to a project. I would think a developer with as deep of pockets as Bedrock for example would have a hard time explaining the need for the financial boost.
July 29, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: True but I believe another criteria of the TMUD was to demonstrate it’s necessity to a project. I would think a developer with as deep of pockets as Bedrock for example would have a hard time explaining the need for the financial boost. “Need” just means needs help penciling out. Which would include delivering funds to the developer or owner regardless of their financial standing.
July 30, 20222 yr On 7/29/2022 at 8:40 AM, Luke_S said: Isn't that the lot that the Metroparks just acquired in the spring? Wonder what they'll use it for. Maybe another HQ building with storefronts or maybe even an artsy pedestrian draw bridge that can connect Nautica, Jacobs Pavilion, and the aquarium.
July 30, 20222 yr Author A park. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 1, 20222 yr On 7/28/2022 at 7:59 PM, KJP said: OMG my computer is so horribly slow. I would've gotten this done hours ago.... Ohio megaproject applications released By Ken Prendergast / July 28, 2022 When real estate developer Bob Stark thought up the Ohio Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credit several years ago, he envisioned it as a means to transition from tapping historic tax credits for renovating old buildings in downtown Cleveland to affording the construction of new ones. His rationale was that, with the supply of obsolete commercial buildings dwindling to provide new residential inventory, a new financial incentive would be needed to overcome Cleveland’s high construction costs and low rents to satisfy downtown housing demand. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/07/28/ohio-megaproject-applications-released/ As before I am hoping that Erieview is chosen this time. I just feel it is as transformative as the program suggests. Also Bridgworks can have that same impact for OC, that would be my ssecond choice. The initial round for tmud could have went better, The 40mil for one project just was not a wise choice. The program would have been better if it would have funded more projects with that 40mil. And please I wish no money for NoValor Acres. Brecksville has money and also has zero diversity. If you want public funds from everyone you have to prove your project will be more than just a lifestyle center for the people of Brecksville.
August 1, 20222 yr Reviewing both the Cleveland and Columbus applicant lists, I just think that many of these projects are certainly less than "transformative". It looks like, at least at the application stage, hopefully not at the agency level, this program is considered just another form of government subsidies for run of the mill projects that probably would happen in any event rather than what I thought the program was going to be and what I think the goal of the original legislation was-that is encouraging very large mix use projects in the urban cores that would totally remake an area and encourage additional development-sort of like the original plan for Nucleus. While I understand the politics of what the program became, especially considering how long it took to get through the legislature, I would have preferred a program exclusive to large cities, bigger credits (more like a total of $150 million) and projects larger in size-more like 30 stories and/or a million square feet. Initiate some other program for these lesser stars. In the end you would probably only get 3-4 apps per round but the credits would be encouraging huge projects that might not normally get done in an Ohio city otherwise. Edited August 1, 20222 yr by Htsguy
August 2, 20222 yr Author So a real estate developer walks into a nice downtown bar and sits near someone who turns out to be a new arrival to Cleveland. A conversation starts. The new arrival says they were relocated to Cleveland to start work on a project and lives downtown. The developer asks where the new arrival works. The new arrival says "I can't say." The developer asks "Can you say what the project is?" "No," replies the new arrival, "but it's a large, game-changing development." The developer asks if the new arrival is under an NDA. The new arrival says yes. The developer asks "so you can't say where in Cleveland it will be?" "Unfortunately, no" the new arrival says. "Can you say where you were relocated from?" asks the developer. "I'd better not," the new arrival replies. The rest of the conversation was equally as unproductive. Unfortunately, the conversation should have started with where the new arrival was from! So I've asked a number of sources around town who or what this might be and no one seems to know for sure. There are some possibilities, however.... 1. Bedrock's riverfront and/or nuCLEus developments 2. Haslam's lakefront development 3. something related to the Cleveland Clinic, such as its new partnership with IBM for the Discovery Accelerator 4. Ford's new EV plant or something else related to the EV industry So I'm putting this out there in case anyone has heard anything. Perhaps you heard about a piece of this but didn't realize it was for something much larger. Either way, feel free to share or drop me a note in the personal messenger. As always, I will keep your insights confidential and get some corroborating evidence to support your insights. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 2, 20222 yr Nice! I love little tidbits like this. Especially if it portends a large project. And you know Ken I'm at the back end of the information line so I never know anything until I read about it. But I think you're like me in that these kind of stories excite you and you have the added advantage of being much closer to the news than me. I guess I'll just have to continue to live vicariously through your reporting. Appreciate it though.
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