January 9, 20241 yr Author You're right. The CleMag article was very good. I'm late to the party.... Blue Abyss lands next to NASA Glenn By Ken Prendergast / January 9, 2024 A Cornwall, UK-based company called Blue Abyss Diving Ltd., has acquired land in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park for a $250 million commercial astronaut training facility and hotel, according to public records and a press release from the company. According to an economic impact study commissioned from Kent State University, the British company's investment here after 30 years could create or support up to 21,800 jobs, add $1.5 billion to residents’ incomes and increase total economic output by $3.6 billion. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/01/09/blue-abyss-lands-next-to-nasa-glenn/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 9, 20241 yr This project is one of the most intriguing investments in our economy in decades. Of course it remains to be seen and the Kent impact study may be wildly optimistic BUT these are exactly the kind of investments that Cleveland needs if it wishes to remain relevant in the new economy taking shape over the next century. Welcome to Cleveland- now get started!
January 9, 20241 yr Author Cleveland seeks urban core tax-increment financing district By Ken Prendergast / January 9, 2024 Cleveland’s biggest source of tax base is its downtown which supports services and infrastructure in the rest of the city. City officials are seeking to leverage investments in its urban core to create a feedback loop to support downtown and other neighborhoods. But not everyone is convinced this is a good thing for the rest of the city and cynics are seeking more information and research before deciding. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/01/09/cleveland-seeks-urban-core-tax-increment-financing-district/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 9, 20241 yr I wish this wasn't called a TIF because it's basically different from all other TIFs. I've got a feeling there will be a lot of reactionary takes from people who don't understand what it is complaining about how it's stealing from the tax base of Cleveland to give a hand out to the Haslams and Gilbert. I still scratch my head at the fact that the General Assembly (which is usually so critical of local control) basically said "yeah, if the city wants to steal property tax from a bunch of county-level agencies, that's great!" I'm pretty optimistic that City of Cleveland will use the money well and so this will all work out nicely for everyone. The bad side is that, you're going to get increased competition between cities, because basically every community is going to look at what Cleveland is doing and say "wait a second, we have to do something like that too or we'll get left behind." So my concern would be what happens if 20 years from now the libraries and tri-c are hurting because they've had basically static revenue for the last 20 years. That could drive significant property tax levies that would artificially raise tax rates across the county and create an eco-system of artificially high property taxes and artificially high infrastructure spending. I know that may sound far fetched given how poor our infrastructure and city services are now, but it is possible to overspend on infrastructure and it is possible to overspend on city services. But, hopefully it all works great. I'm just a little concerned this launches a prisoner's dilemma situation where every city has to pass some huge TIF district and everyone also loses as a result.
January 9, 20241 yr Pro and con TIF proponents can legitimately make their case. I'll side with the pro group as l'm a believer in maximizing strengths. If investment creates something greater than what previously existed and the subsequent increased taxes are rolled back into it that can help it maintain that that progress and grow even more. A virtuous circle. Blaine Griffith said it best. Any taxes lost to the whole will be made up by growing the tax base as the entire region grows.
January 14, 20241 yr If anyone wants to have a civil conversation about street closures, we have a thread for that.
January 19, 20241 yr Here's an article on the Greyhound station, but nothing we don't already know. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/metamorphosis-coming-for-clevelands-greyhound-station-but-where-do-we-go-to-catch-a-bus.html
January 20, 20241 yr Here's an article on the Greyhound station, but nothing we don't already know. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/metamorphosis-coming-for-clevelands-greyhound-station-but-where-do-we-go-to-catch-a-bus.htmlStephanie Tubbs is the best immediate option, still located close to downtown, built to serve similar busses and is already underutilized. It is a win win for both. Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
January 20, 20241 yr 5 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: Stephanie Tubbs is the best immediate option, still located close to downtown, built to serve similar busses and is already underutilized. It is a win win for both. Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk I think the waiting area at ST might need some improvement -- are there restrooms? Is there a place for some staff for bus tickets/questions? A newstand or deli? If it already has restrooms, just a little more building might be needed to make it great.
January 20, 20241 yr Author 15 minutes ago, Foraker said: I think the waiting area at ST might need some improvement -- are there restrooms? Is there a place for some staff for bus tickets/questions? A newstand or deli? If it already has restrooms, just a little more building might be needed to make it great. There are, but I've never seen them open to the public. RTA drivers seem to believe the bathrooms are for them only. I've also never seen the waiting room be unlocked either, including back when Megabus paid RTA for use of the facility as a station stop. BTW, the Greyhound situation has also been discussed more extensively in the Ohio & national intercity bus thread..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 23, 20241 yr According to the article I shouldn't be surprised that Cleveland is in the top ten, but is that right? I know we were an early adopter of office-to-residential conversions, but but that only means we've been at it longer than other cities, reducing the available square footage of potential conversions. We also had less office space than cities like NYC and LA to begin with and now that those cities are seeing lower demand for office space they're starting to convert too. Cleveland among top cities for office-to-apartment conversions in 2024 Nazmul Ahasan, Bloomberg January 23, 2024 Quote This year, more than 55,300 housing units are being transformed from office buildings, a more than fourfold increase since 2021, according to a study out Monday from apartment listing service RentCafe. While demand for residential space continues to drive the surge, the 22% year-over-year growth is modest compared to the prior two years. And Cleveland is among the top 10 U.S. cities for this year's planned conversions. RentCafe's study estimates Cleveland will convert around 2,000 units, the sixth-most behind cities like New York and Los Angeles. That revelation is likely not a surprise to anyone who's been following the trend. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-among-top-cities-office-apartment-conversions-planned-2024 Edited January 23, 20241 yr by Luke_S
January 24, 20241 yr Personally, l dislike converting office space to residential but if the space is now obsolete due to economic circumstances then this is the best option. Remaining empty is not the answer. And a side benefit of conversions is it does help to alleviate the housing crisis. More housing should help to bring down the total cost of housing which is becoming a real problem for millions of Americans
January 24, 20241 yr If this isn't on-topic enough for random developments feel free to delete mods. Cross-posting here for awareness:
January 24, 20241 yr 20 hours ago, Luke_S said: According to the article I shouldn't be surprised that Cleveland is in the top ten, but is that right? I know we were an early adopter of office-to-residential conversions, but but that only means we've been at it longer than other cities, reducing the available square footage of potential conversions. We also had less office space than cities like NYC and LA to begin with and now that those cities are seeing lower demand for office space they're starting to convert too. Cleveland among top cities for office-to-apartment conversions in 2024 Nazmul Ahasan, Bloomberg January 23, 2024 https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-among-top-cities-office-apartment-conversions-planned-2024 One of the other factors that doesn't often find its way into the conversation is whether or not a market facilitates office-to-residential conversions, in terms of zoning, building code, etc. For instance, in NYC the maximum FAR (floor area ratio) for residential is 12. A ton of dated office buildings from the 1950s-1990s that could be perfect for a conversion would be over that FAR, meaning some portion of them would need to either remain office, or find some other non-residential use. Consolidating office at the bottom (in NYC no other use can be located above residential) sounds like it would work, but the challenge is that converting your upper portion of the building to residential necessitates emptying out the lower levels to run utilities, infrastructure, etc. which is a huge money sink while renovations are ongoing. The other issue you often see is the depth of the floor plates. In many markets, Cleveland and Cincinnati included, you are legally allowed to have interior bedrooms which borrow light and air from adjacent rooms. This means those deep parts of the floor plate away from the windows can still be valuable. In NYC and more recently in Californian cities, borrowing light and air isn't allowed. This means you are limited by the linear footage of the perimeter window line when it comes to how many rooms you can have regardless of how large the unit might be square footage wise. In NYC you also need light and air for kitchens over 80 square feet and light and air can't be provided by windows more than 30 feet away. So you often wind up with a bunch of useless square footage surrounding your building core, meaning it's not economically viable to convert. All this to say, markets like Cleveland and Cincinnati, which both have less strict zoning and building code regulations than markets like NYC, LA, etc. are conducive to conversions whereas these larger markets are slower to adapt and are not overly accommodating to these kinds of conversions despite having a pile of underperforming offices which would be perfect contenders for conversion. Edited January 24, 20241 yr by jmicha
January 24, 20241 yr I'm betting (in New York at least) there will be zoning changes to accommodate conversions simply because the number of buildings and the square footage of under-performing office space is staggering. If you can't fill the spaces and you can't tear them all down conversion will have to the best of bad choices. Current zoning be damned.
January 25, 20241 yr CLEVLOT website and tool aims to streamline the process of repurposing Cleveland’s vacant land BY JENNA THOMAS JANUARY 24, 2024 It’s not often that educational panel discussions are standing room only, but that was the case last month when experts weighed in on the future of the Cleveland Land Bank at a forum at Cleveland State University’s Levin College of Public Affairs and Education. Why so much interest in vacant land? Well, for one thing, there’s a lot of it. In fact, according to presenters at the forum, the city’s vacant lots could cover three airports, with a combined 30,000 lots spanning 6,000 acres. That works out to about one-eighth of the city. Be sure to bring out that handy fact next time you’re trying to sell your in-laws on moving here (or not). ... Now, Mayor Justin Bibb’s administration is trying to reform the land bank to make it more responsive to the needs of individual neighborhoods and more effective at repurposing land. Their main tool for doing so is called CLEVLOT, or the Cleveland Vacant Land Opportunity Tool. CLEVLOT is a website and online tool aimed at helping people search for and buy vacant land in the city (if you’re interested in learning more, fill out this contact form or call 216-250-2638). As the room filled and CSU staff dragged out stacks of additional chairs, it quickly became apparent that there was a deep and widespread interest in making better use of the city’s empty land. https://thelandcle.org/stories/clevlot-website-and-tool-aims-to-streamline-the-process-of-repurposing-clevelands-vacant-land/
January 25, 20241 yr 17 hours ago, cadmen said: I'm betting (in New York at least) there will be zoning changes to accommodate conversions simply because the number of buildings and the square footage of under-performing office space is staggering. If you can't fill the spaces and you can't tear them all down conversion will have to the best of bad choices. Current zoning be damned. There will very likely be building code changes, but the FAR limitation is a state regulation, one the city has tried to remove to no avail. So for now, that aspect is still going to seriously complicate some larger buildings from being converted.
January 25, 20241 yr I've posted this link before, but here is an article talking about problems in coversion: This may be behind a NY Times paywall https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/03/11/upshot/office-conversions.html The summary - older buildings are easier than newer buildings And the article has a great use of graphics
January 29, 20241 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/clevelands-playhouse-square-valor-acres-in-brecksville-getting-millions-in-tax-credits.html TMUD winners announced
January 29, 20241 yr \ 12 minutes ago, nokoeeee said: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/clevelands-playhouse-square-valor-acres-in-brecksville-getting-millions-in-tax-credits.html TMUD winners announced I can't read the article, but based on the graphic, it looks like most are going to central and southern Ohio.
January 29, 20241 yr Other than Bridgeworks who else would have applied? Of course the pessimist in me thinks, both Cleveland TMUD winning projects may not even happen .... so a lot of good that did 😆
January 29, 20241 yr For people unable to read the Cleveland.com article. https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/ohio-mixed-use-development-projects-expected-to-spur-2-billion-in-community-investments Downloadable full list at link. Edited January 29, 20241 yr by Ethan Updated link
January 29, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, Mendo said: Link leads to a 404. Any grab the download before it disappeared? Weird, just updated it, try it now.
January 29, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: For people unable to read the Cleveland.com article. https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/ohio-mixed-use-development-projects-expected-to-spur-2-billion-in-community-investments Downloadable full list at link. So what is the Playhouse Square one for? Looking at the description it seems the only thing not done yet is the Bulkley Building rehab and that isn't going to cost $185M?
January 30, 20241 yr “The Project, which includes the construction of the Lumen…” Hmm… hopefully they meant “the Lumen 2…”
January 30, 20241 yr The Crain’s article only makes mention of a $185.9 million restoration. Playhouse Square, Valor Acres awarded state transformational projects tax credits https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/two-neo-projects-snag-nearly-12-million-tmud-tax-credits The redevelopment includes transforming the nine-floor Bulkley Building at 1501 Euclid Avenue into 84 apartments, with a portion available for short-term rental by cast and crew members from shows appearing at Playhouse Square. Renovations on the Hanna Building at 1422 Euclid Avenue include retrofitting the 24,000-square-foot fourth floor into a flexible co-working space called “Backstage at PSQ."
January 30, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, columbus17 said: It can apply to projects in progress... Lumen though has been completed for years.
February 6, 20241 yr I think the buildout of the interior in a commercial unit would be on the tenant to complete, but I could be wrong.
February 6, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: I think the buildout of the interior in a commercial unit would be on the tenant to complete, but I could be wrong. That's all negotiable.
February 6, 20241 yr Council pushes back on TIF proposal. Wants to see more going to neighborhoods. https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/clevelands-tif-district-plan-hold-council-wants-changes#/ I can understand why they're doing this, they need to represent their constituents after all, but it seems like wrapping these funds up in more red tape and bureaucracy can't be a good thing. Guaranteeing 50% of these funds go to "every neighborhood, with special emphasis on our middle, edge and distressed neighborhoods" doesn't seem like a good idea to me, however well intentioned it might be. Edited February 6, 20241 yr by Ethan
February 6, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Ethan said: Council pushes back on TIF proposal. Wants to see more going to neighborhoods. https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/clevelands-tif-district-plan-hold-council-wants-changes#/ I can understand why they're doing this, they need to represent their constituents after all, but it seems like wrapping these funds up in more red tape and bureaucracy can't be a good thing. Guaranteeing 50% of these funds go to "every neighborhood, with special emphasis on our middle, edge and distressed neighborhoods" doesn't seem like a good idea to me, however well intentioned it might be. The numbers (just picking 50%) seem arbitrary to me. Seems like it would make more sense to have the number tied to population, or property values, or something. But it's reasonable for council (each member of which represents a specific ward) to want to ensure that downtown doesn't just soak up 100% of the money. And frankly, if Bibb were to say "every dime of this money must go to downtown infrastructure" I would be both shocked and alarmed. So I actually see this as a reasonable and unsurprising starting point in a negotiation.
February 6, 20241 yr 58 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: The numbers (just picking 50%) seem arbitrary to me. Seems like it would make more sense to have the number tied to population, or property values, or something. But it's reasonable for council (each member of which represents a specific ward) to want to ensure that downtown doesn't just soak up 100% of the money. And frankly, if Bibb were to say "every dime of this money must go to downtown infrastructure" I would be both shocked and alarmed. So I actually see this as a reasonable and unsurprising starting point in a negotiation. Totally agree! My other concern is that they'll negotiate this to the point that it becomes inflexible. There might be one year where it makes sense to direct 70% of the money downtown due to a large project, but maybe the year after that it makes sense to direct the majority of the funds towards Hough for a different project. I just don't want arbitrary, neighborhood level, funding baskets to get in the way of appropriately prioritizing projects on their own merits. Projects should be evaluated on their own based on their benefit to the city, sorting by neighborhood first complicates things unnecessarily and is very unlikely to result in the most useful distribution of funds.
February 7, 20241 yr Might be slightly off topic but it's funny just now scrolling through Facebook and Instagram comments from suburbanites and I'm so use to these people saying "downtown is a wasteland and ruined and barren!! There's no reason to go downtown it's awful it needs so much work!!" And then now when these articles come out about funding or something all of a sudden it's "downtown doesn't need all that help! Spread it around to all neighborhoods!!" Idk random thought I found funny lol. You can't have it both ways!! 🤣🤣
February 8, 20241 yr Idk where I saw that this building on cedar was proposed to be demolished. The confusion for me comes from this building looking like work has been done and continues to be done to it. Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
February 10, 20241 yr 4434 Warner Ave (Slavic Village or just south thereof) heading for rehab. Six apartment units and a commercial space. Financed by Upright (formerly Fund That Flip). Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
February 10, 20241 yr Cool new Cuyahoga County mapping website,it has a lot of of overlay options. Tree canopy, ground cover, demographic info, and some interesting biking info (packing to cross post). As an aside, doesn't work well on Mobile. https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/70b82141d3fb4b9e84057a482362fe7b/page/Application-Home/
February 14, 20241 yr Good news for Public Square improvements. Grants funded by General Motors the article says https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2024/02/public-square-receives-100000-grant-toward-improvements.html#:~:text=Public Square receives %24100%2C000 grant toward improvements - cleveland.com
February 15, 20241 yr Cavs thread doesn't get too much action and wasn't sure where else to share this. But come on ESPN, seriously? One of the few national TV games we get and every single shot wasn't even current/live. I know this isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but this just grinded my gears last night. Ok end of my morning cup of coffee rant. PS not my photo, randomly found on Twitter/X Edited February 15, 20241 yr by GREGinPARMA
February 15, 20241 yr Rainbow colors on Terminal Tower. Isn't it normally lit with wine & gold when the Cavs are playing?
February 15, 20241 yr 8 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Rainbow colors on Terminal Tower. Isn't it normally lit with wine & gold when the Cavs are playing? I think it was red and white last night for Valentine's Day
February 15, 20241 yr 16 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Rainbow colors on Terminal Tower. Isn't it normally lit with wine & gold when the Cavs are playing? I don't think so. Maybe for special games, but they play a lot, and I'm pretty sure Terminal Tower doesn't usually go to Cavs colors when they play.
February 15, 20241 yr @GREGinPARMA l completely agree with you. It IS a pet peeve of mine too when a company uses a stock photo that is completely out of date. I am really looking forward to seeing the view from the Flats showing the Detroit Superior bridge in the foreground with Public Square in the background. It will be a game changer as views go and will show us having a real skyline.
February 15, 20241 yr Looks like the administration and the city have reached a "compromise" on TIF: ‘Hundreds of millions’ headed to Cleveland neighborhoods: Mayor, council president reach apparent compromise on downtown TIF money https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/02/hundreds-of-millions-headed-to-cleveland-neighborhoods-mayor-council-president-reach-apparent-compromise-on-downtown-tif-money.html "The numbers floated Thursday by Bibb and Griffin are broad and lack specificity. But they would likely fall far short of Griffin’s original 50% idea. In the compromise framework currently under discussion between City Council and the mayor, Griffin said he anticipates “as much as 35% of the excess” TIF revenues would go to neighborhoods." 35% is certainly nothing to laugh at, to me it seems reasonable to still get the big waterfront and downtown projects going but also 35% of $7.5 bil over the next 40 years is over $2.5 bil in neighborhood improvements.
February 15, 20241 yr 36 minutes ago, Geowizical said: Looks like the administration and the city have reached a "compromise" on TIF: ‘Hundreds of millions’ headed to Cleveland neighborhoods: Mayor, council president reach apparent compromise on downtown TIF money https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/02/hundreds-of-millions-headed-to-cleveland-neighborhoods-mayor-council-president-reach-apparent-compromise-on-downtown-tif-money.html "The numbers floated Thursday by Bibb and Griffin are broad and lack specificity. But they would likely fall far short of Griffin’s original 50% idea. In the compromise framework currently under discussion between City Council and the mayor, Griffin said he anticipates “as much as 35% of the excess” TIF revenues would go to neighborhoods." 35% is certainly nothing to laugh at, to me it seems reasonable to still get the big waterfront and downtown projects going but also 35% of $7.5 bil over the next 40 years is over $2.5 bil in neighborhood improvements. This seems like a nothing-burger. The deal "lacks specifics," details will remain fuzzy until "after the TIF district is already established". Griffin even acknowledges that funding in the early years will go towards downtown primarily so that the investment can actually pay off. Basically this seems to have all been a political stunt for Griffin, he'll now declare victory, but nothing whatsoever has actually changed, and I wouldn't be surprised if details don't get worked out until after they're both out of office.
February 21, 20241 yr Come on now! You all know that the development threads aren't for political discussion.
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