Am I the only person who HASN'T ever been to a Chipotle?

 

No dear, you're not alone. I've never eaten there.

 

TouCHÉ!!! :laugh:

Laaaaaaaaawd.

 

It's not an MTS approved restaurant.

What?? But it's burrito-licious!!

If East Ohio Gas building is empty, Then where are the offices of Dominion East Ohio Gas Co.

East 55 near St. Clair.

 

MTS: When did Dominion East Ohio move to E.55/St. clair

If East Ohio Gas building is empty, Then where are the offices of Dominion East Ohio Gas Co.

East 55 near St. Clair.

 

MTS: When did Dominion East Ohio move to E.55/St. clair

 

It's been a while now.

Hey, I love Chipotle as much as the next person, so I'm all for it.

 

If I'm "the next person", then you hate Chipotle with a passion.  Mayday, MTS...you're not missing out on anything.

It's Mexican Subway.  You pick your own stuff and somehow it all still comes out the same.  My cravings for it are rare.  But I think they're good for developing corners because they get so much traffic.

 

MTS: When did Dominion East Ohio move to E.55/St. clair

 

They've had facilities there for more than 60 years. That's where the large tank of liquefied natural gas exploded during World War II and leveled the entire neighborhood and killed 130 people. Folks thought it was sabotage from our enemies but it turned out to be an accident.

 

Read more about it here:

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1605

 

Here's some photos:

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/general&CISOPTR=1270&CISOBOX=1&REC=14

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/general&CISOPTR=1269&CISOBOX=1&REC=18

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/general&CISOPTR=1273&CISOBOX=1&REC=9

Thankfully it looks like they're taking down more than just the one level of scaffolding :-)

 

 

 

Notice that there's more to go on the left side of this image:

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Does anyone know to what extent the TT will be scrubbed/restored?  Will it be the whole tower or just the part that presently has scaffolding on it?

 

What really needs similar exterior TLC is the Landmark Office Towers... those buildings are dirty as hell.

Does anyone know to what extent the TT will be scrubbed/restored?  Will it be the whole tower or just the part that presently has scaffolding on it?

 

What really needs similar exterior TLC is the Landmark Office Towers... those buildings are dirty as hell.

 

I vaguely remember it being cleaned when I worked in that building. I want to say it was cleaned Back in 86 or '87 or around the time TC opened. 

19ActionNews has been busy. Actually I always thought a Horse Track downtown would be cool-so check this out.

 

Derby Days: Unique Plan Poised To Revitalize Ailing Downtown

Posted: Oct 21, 2008 05:24 AM EDT

Updated: Oct 21, 2008 05:48 AM EDT

 

2:24  Cleveland, OH - Downtown Cleveland needs big time help.

Where or when are we going to find that big economic boost to revitalize this city?

19 Action News Investigator Scott Taylor has uncovered one very unique plan.

It might sound a crazy but we're saying - why not?

Watch the video:

http://www.woio.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=3047849&at1=News&h1=Downtown

 

 

Yeah, the horseracing crowd is really one that brings up ailing urban areas.  I like horse tracks as much as the next person, that is if I'm looking to get shitfaced and gamble away my Christmas bonus.

^The PANTHER District? What possible relevance does the Muni Lot and horseraces  have to do with a PANTHER? Oh, and a mall at that site? BRILLIANT! :roll:

Charles Scaravelli,

 

I'm dumber for having seen that.  What little planning acumen remained in my skull just went running out my ears.  If anything, wouldn't we be better off bringing the MLS stadium to that site, instead of moving Thistledown so we could have the MLS stadium there?

Existing horse tracks can barely stay open.  They've been declining for decades.  I don't think horse racing has ever been less popular.  This is not a good idea.

But it'll have a mall near it!

 

Never mind that one up the hill on East 9th and St. Clair...

More importantly, redeveloping muni lot does not give Clevelanders access to the LAKEFRONT. 

 

A mall?  We already have two malls downtown, one right where this flawed idea is planned.

 

The only way to do that, is to rip out the shoreway as well?

All his "planning" looks like it was done by a five year old with crayons on tissue paper.

 

Seriously, even if I thought a horse track "downtown" was a good idea... and I don't.  It just amazes me how many of these people don't get it in general.  This is an expansion of downtown plan.  We aren't anywhere near ready to expand.  There are plenty of buildings left to renovate, streets left to turn around.  Adding tons of new housing on East 29th street is just going to slow down all the efforts that have been taking place in the core of the city.

I would love for the MLS to build a stadium on the muni lot, especially with the waterfront line being right there, hell i would prefer an MLS stadium anywhere in the city of cleveland and a team to fill the stadium. But i couldnt see any cleveland mls team playing anywhere but Cleveland Browns Stadium. Unfortunately i dont see this EVER happening. Not with Columbus right down the road, and too many other cities that are already well ahead of cleveland in terms of trying to get a team. Why couldnt MLS/USL1/USL2 use a promotion/relegation system that would give the City Stars the chance to reach the top flight in a few years?!

You know what else they should put there?  A roller skating rink.  One that plays Meatloaf.  And a merry-go-round... oh wait, someone seriously proposed that.

We coulda got Robby Love for the grand opening too!

This is an expansion of downtown plan.  We aren't anywhere near ready to expand.  There are plenty of buildings left to renovate, streets left to turn around.  Adding tons of new housing on East 29th street is just going to slow down all the efforts that have been taking place in the core of the city.

 

Agreed.  So lets not invest anymore time into this ridiculous idea. 

WOIO is full of fucktards.

 

Even that little line: when are we going to find that next big project to revitalize this city?? Ummm .. it's because of the fact that Cleveland has looked to "the next big project" every time that the economy is where it is today. The economy doesn't thrive on "the next big project". It thrives because overall growth is happening, not just concentrated on one big thing meant to create a short-lived buzz.

 

Regarding the video: I almost feel like it's April Fool's, and someone is going to jump out at some point and say, "Haha .. GOTCHA!" The renderings are a joke. The name of the district is a joke. I mean .. are you KIDDING me?!

Scaravelli is the same guy that tried to go toe to toe with Forest City to develop Scranton Penninsula about ten years ago.  That didn't happen, and there is no way this stupid Panther District would happen either.  Hilarious, f'ing Panther District, you've got to be kidding me.  This makes the Rock-o-Meter look well thought out.  I can't stop laughing about how ridiculous this is.

Hilarious, f'ing Panther District, you've got to be kidding me.  This makes the Rock-o-Meter look well thought out.  I can't stop laughing about how ridiculous this is.

Maybe this "district" is targeting Cougars and Park Rangers. :|

wow you sure this isn't cleveland.bomb. Obviously you have to look at this proposal as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I mean Scaravelli, really? But I do think we need to be more open to different ideas. I like those who are free to think about things in a different way. I would be all for the race track portion of it, but not the rest of it. There are enough of spaces in the CBD that need the development help first. If the track is successful then the other development may come. But if done correctly and if you dropped Thistledown onto that parking lot, how cool would that be. I mean Thisledown is a beautiful track. Having spent allot of time at the track with my dad as a kid I can tell you that your view of those who attend are mostly wrong, and if you would get out a little bit more and spend some time at the great tracks across the country it can be a great asset. So I choose not to immediatly shoot something down w/o a little more thought. Thats why we are in the situation that we are in.

Probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Another stupid news story to get "Joe the Plumber" to watch channel 19. Even the headline is dumb: "Unique Plan Poised To Revitalize Ailing Downtown". In my opinion, downtown still needs a lot work, but it has come along way in the last five years. You very rarely hear that in the media outlets. However, as usual, the Cleveland media hypes the negative and outrageous.

As soon as I heard "horse track", I turned the thing off.  Dammit...

 

Scaravelli proposed turning the Scranton Penninsula into 6 islands, if I recall, with housing on them, along with believing he could net $100 million with the project.  He offered Forest City $50 million for the property and the Higbee building, but they didn't bite (thank God).  As much as I don't care for Forest City, I can not imagine what would have happened to that land if it was sold to this guy.

Having spent allot of time at the track with my dad as a kid I can tell you that your view of those who attend are mostly wrong, and if you would get out a little bit more and spend some time at the great tracks across the country it can be a great asset. So I choose not to immediatly shoot something down w/o a little more thought. Thats why we are in the situation that we are in.

 

It's not that I have a problem with horse tracks downtown. It's that I have a problem with them ANYwhere. Especially in Cleveland, where poverty is a major issue! I don't think gambling anywhere is a good idea, because gambling plays on people's desires to get rich quickly .. but the odds are so stacked against them, it's not even funny. I'm immediately against the idea of bringing anything of that nature downtown, let alone ANYwhere.

 

Not only that, but the Scaravelli's presentation is ridiculous. It's probably one of the worst presentations I've seen for a major construction project proposal. I wouldn't even consider it based on that. I think you need to be a little more closed-minded, quite honestly, freethink. Not every idea is a good one.

We are in the situation we are in because the level of sophistication and knowledge of the urban condition of many of the developers and leaders in this city have totally dropped off the map.

This may turn out to be the greatest project this city has ever seen, but this guy is going to market this thing as "The Panther District?"  Any mildly educated person is going to laugh this guy out of the room.

Can you imagine The Van Sweringens walking into a room full of bankers, politicians, and the press and present their plans for the Terminal Tower Complex or Shaker Heights, and calling it the Wild Cat District?

City building is serious business.  This guy with his crayoned site plan and, I'm going to say it, horrible idea for our invaluable lakefront, is dangerous.

All he's missing is a mascot for the project.

Free think.  One Question, how is putting a racetrack - a huge racetrck - down there going to open up space for residents and visitors to access the lakefront?

 

The rail line and the expressway are still barriers.

 

So tell me how this is an improvement and how it will  be a benefit ALL Clevelanders?

 

Jpop -

 

I agree a horsetrack is not a good development tool for downtown. However, gambling in Cleveland does not bother me. I understand the poverty issue, but we already have a lottery that plays on those desires. My father-in-law plays the lottery everday. He has been doing this for almost forty years. Also, the RTA has a stop near Thirstledown, so people within the city already have gambling options. Plus, my eighty year old grandmother takes a bus to Detroit every month to gamble. Limiting gambling within the city will not stop those who want to gamble. Sorry for going a off topic.

Jpop -

 

I agree a horsetrack is not a good development tool for downtown. However, gambling in Cleveland does not bother me. I understand the poverty issue, but we already have a lottery that plays on those desires. My father-in-law plays the lottery everday. He has been doing this for almost forty years. Also, the RTA has a stop near Thirstledown, so people within the city already have gambling options. Plus, my eighty year old grandmother takes a bus to Detroit every month to gamble. Limiting gambling within the city will not stop those who want to gamble. Sorry for going a off topic.

 

I fully understand that. But I'm totally against playing to people's desires to do that. Obviously, I'm not in city government, and I'm not a developer. This is just my own opinion, and this is why I'm against gambling of any kind. I would be fully against any kind of new development that furthers the cause of gambling, though. I don't care if it's already been established in ths state or elsewhere.

Jeebus, I go work in the lab for 2 hours and miss a lot.....  Having lived close enough to Thistledown for 2 years (not that that makes me an expert, but I have some semblance of what it's like), all I ever saw were empty parking lots.  Maybe it draws crowds for races, but how often do those actually happen?  Enough to contribute to street life?  I think not.

At least this is generating some dialogue about redeveloping the lakefront.

Free think.  One Question, how is putting a racetrack - a huge racetrck - down there going to open up space for residents and visitors to access the lakefront?

 

The rail line and the expressway are still barriers.

 

So tell me how this is an improvement and how it will  be a benefit ALL Clevelanders?

 

 

 

 

I am not suggesting that this is a great presentation, or is it a panacea for all the problems that we have. I am asking that we approach different ideas with an open mind.

This is just a piece of the puzzle, it will not benefit everyone. But what it could do is present Cleveland as a city that explores every opportunity it can to heal itself. You need to bring money into a city, not chase it away. When someone suggested holding an auto race at Burke there were allot of people who said it was stupid, and that it cant be done. But it was a success for 25 years. There is no such thing that benefits everyone. And as far as gambling being some kind of evil, thats ridiculous. Let adults do what they want to do. Stop trying to be my moral compass. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^Your comment about the auto race at Burke made me think of the Red Bull Air Race.  Does anyone know if there's ever been an attempt by the city to attract a Red Bull Air Race to Cleveland?  We have a perfect location right on the lake with the huge breakwater to provide smooth water for their pylons.  I know it's changing the subject, but I was just curious!  I love watching those races on TV!

And as far as gambling being some kind of evil, thats ridiculous. Let adults do what they want to do. Stop trying to be my moral compass. 

 

And you don't be mine. We obviously have differing viewpoints. You're allowed to have yours, and I'm allowed to have mine. I'm not trying to push my beliefs onto you. But I will fight yours because I'm basing my beliefs on the lives I've seen ravaged by gambling addiction. You have no more of a right to your desires for gambling than I have for my desire to see it not happen. I personally see it as a fundamentally bad thing.

Free think.  One Question, how is putting a racetrack - a huge racetrck - down there going to open up space for residents and visitors to access the lakefront?

 

The rail line and the expressway are still barriers.

 

So tell me how this is an improvement and how it will  be a benefit ALL Clevelanders?

 

 

 

 

I am not suggesting that this is a great presentation, or is it a panacea for all the problems that we have. I am asking that we approach different ideas with an open mind.

This is just a piece of the puzzle, it will not benefit everyone. But what it could do is present Cleveland as a city that explores every opportunity it can to heal itself. You need to bring money into a city, not chase it away. When someone suggested holding an auto race at Burke there were allot of people who said it was stupid, and that it cant be done. But it was a success for 25 years. There is no such thing that benefits everyone. And as far as gambling being some kind of evil, thats ridiculous. Let adults do what they want to do. Stop trying to be my moral compass.

 

Its a ridiculous planning and development idea.  Why MOVE a racetrack, which isn't a money generator as is.  Why go against the overwhelming will of the public.  In earlier reports (which I don't have handy/nor feel like looking for) citizens have asked for parks and direct lakefront access.  This project would prevent that.

 

As far as "healing" itself, see McCleveland's comments.  we have plenty of spaces to rebuild/redevelop so that residents can move in followed up with core service establishments.  He want to build a mall, the galleria is in perfect condition for investment.

 

Gambling reall is a "non issue" as thistledown is currently in operation, with bus access and racetrack patrons will visit it regardless of location.

 

Its not cohesive nor does it help strengthen the city core. 

Its a ridiculous planning and development idea.  Why MOVE a racetrack, which isn't a money generator as is.  Why go against the overwhelming will of the public.  In earlier reports (which I don't have handy/nor feel like looking for) citizens have asked for parks and direct lakefront access.  This project would prevent that.

As far as "healing" itself, see McCleveland's comments.  we have plenty of spaces to rebuild/redevelop so that residents can move in followed up with core service establishments.  He want to build a mall, the galleria is in perfect condition for investment.

Gambling reall is a "non issue" as thistledown is currently in operation, with bus access and racetrack patrons will visit it regardless of location.

Its not cohesive nor does it help strengthen the city core. 

 

You are missing the point. I have already stated I am not in favor of the rest of the development until the CBD is fully rehabilitated. I don't need a Gap clothing store on the lakefront. I am not clear on how you suggest it is not a money maker. Bringing payroll and visitors to a city everyday to spend money in that city is something that should be exlpored. And how does a parking lot as it is currently situated "strengthen the city core"

 

And you don't be mine. We obviously have differing viewpoints. You're allowed to have yours, and I'm allowed to have mine. I'm not trying to push my beliefs onto you. But I will fight yours because I'm basing my beliefs on the lives I've seen ravaged by gambling addiction. You have no more of a right to your desires for gambling than I have for my desire to see it not happen. I personally see it as a fundamentally bad thing.

 

I am not preaching to you. I am suggesting that adults should be allowed to make there own decisions as to what entertains them. Last time I checked gambling is legal. If I wanted everyone to live their lives as I see fit, and have the same perceived values as I view them, I would join the Republican party.

Its a ridiculous planning and development idea.  Why MOVE a racetrack, which isn't a money generator as is.  Why go against the overwhelming will of the public.  In earlier reports (which I don't have handy/nor feel like looking for) citizens have asked for parks and direct lakefront access.  This project would prevent that.

As far as "healing" itself, see McCleveland's comments.  we have plenty of spaces to rebuild/redevelop so that residents can move in followed up with core service establishments.  He want to build a mall, the galleria is in perfect condition for investment.

Gambling reall is a "non issue" as thistledown is currently in operation, with bus access and racetrack patrons will visit it regardless of location.

Its not cohesive nor does it help strengthen the city core. 

 

You are missing the point. I have already stated I am not in favor of the rest of the development until the CBD is fully rehabilitated. I don't need a Gap clothing store on the lakefront. I am not clear on how you suggest it is not a money maker. Bringing payroll and visitors to a city everyday to spend money in that city is something that should be explored. And how does a parking lot as it is currently situated "strengthen the city core"

 

Sorry, I missed that in your initial post. 

 

Also, with Jackson having a regional approach, moving thistledown from its current spot would hurt North Randall(or whatever township/'burb it's located in). It takes money away from them and you can't guarantee the vacated space would be redeveloped, when its directly across the street from a giant white elephant.

 

As I said before, that space if redeveloped should be open to the public.  People want green space.

 

I'm all for exploration and being progressive, but lets but the R&D resources to good planning uses.  The ideal alone is ludicrous. The folks here are bit more in touch with urban planning issues and tend to look at all aspects of how a project relates to it's surrounding today and in the future. No, I don't want this parcel to stay a parking lot, but this - as witnessed here - most people think this is way off base.

 

 

But where will Browns fans tailgate if the muni lot gets developed?  :roll:

But where will Browns fans tailgate if the muni lot gets developed?  :roll:

Oh please, they only do it 10 times a year now, they'll find a place.  If the WHD was smart they'd close w ninth down on game days so people could party hard.

But where will Browns fans tailgate if the muni lot gets developed?  :roll:

Oh please, they only do it 10 times a year now, they'll find a place.  If the WHD was smart they'd close w ninth down on game days so people could party hard.

 

i wasnt being serious here. The only reason i said this is because i remember hearing comments from all different people complaining that they were losing their precious tailgating grounds to the FEB. I personally wish people would hit up the bars and restaurants before games instead of buying all their food and drink out in the burbs and bringing it in the city.

And you know when this land does get serious talks about development their is going to be a huge uproar from those that do tailgate at Muni

The folks here are bit more in touch with urban planning issues and tend to look at all aspects of how a project relates to it's surrounding today and in the future.

 

 

If you are suggesting that I am naive in my thinking, and that "urban planners" have anymore credibility as far as how a project relates to the rest of the city, take a walk around downtown sometime.

The folks here are bit more in touch with urban planning issues and tend to look at all aspects of how a project relates to it's surrounding today and in the future.

 

 

If you are suggesting that I am naive in my thinking, and that "urban planners" have anymore credibility as far as how a project relates to the rest of the city, take a walk around downtown sometime.

Not in any way!  I'm not trying to make this a person issue or discredit you in any form, fashion or way.

 

i wasnt being serious here. The only reason i said this is because i remember hearing comments from all different people complaining that they were losing their precious tailgating grounds to the FEB. I personally wish people would hit up the bars and restaurants before games instead of buying all their food and drink out in the burbs and bringing it in the city.

And you know when this land does get serious talks about development their is going to be a huge uproar from those that do tailgate at Muni

I know.  The " :roll: " was a big clue.  LOL