February 9, 20196 yr On 1/27/2019 at 3:12 PM, KJP said: Renovations for 200 Public Square include gutting empty penthouse floor once used for BP executives Updated Jan 21; Posted 5:00 AM By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio – For much of two decades, the top floor of downtown Cleveland’s third-tallest skyscraper has been underused, a reminder of the loss of once-titanic corporate tenants LTV Corp. and, before that, BP America. Now new owners could gut the space, revamping a 1980s executive-dining and meeting floor at the 200 Public Square tower as modern offices with high-rise views of the city. Changes to the building’s 41st floor are among the most dramatic investments that New York-based DRA Advisors and the firm’s local partner, developer Scott Wolstein, are contemplating in the wake of their early October acquisition of the property that many Clevelanders still call the BP Tower. MORE: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/01/renovations-for-200-public-square-include-gutting-empty-penthouse-floor-once-used-for-bp-executives.html The remodeling of the atrium a few years ago is terrible with that new box like restaurant smack in the middle. They got rid of a beautiful fountain and destroyed one of the finest interior spaces in Cleveland.
February 11, 20196 yr On 2/9/2019 at 12:28 PM, shack said: The remodeling of the atrium a few years ago is terrible with that new box like restaurant smack in the middle. They got rid of a beautiful fountain and destroyed one of the finest interior spaces in Cleveland. As a transplant in the past few years, I just googled it and wow, what a difference. Was it an active/populated space under this design?
February 12, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, GISguy said: As a transplant in the past few years, I just googled it and wow, what a difference. Was it an active/populated space under this design? No
February 12, 20196 yr Just now, FrqntFlyr said: No When it initially opened it was pretty busy, I mean the BP building is large so there were lots of workers. There were retail shops in there as well; men and women clothing etc.
February 12, 20196 yr 10 hours ago, GISguy said: As a transplant in the past few years, I just googled it and wow, what a difference. Was it an active/populated space under this design? This was never one of the finest interior spaces in Cleveland. It was a huge waste of space and had become 80's style outdated. It's better now.
February 12, 20196 yr I don't think the updated design is better than the original layout. The atrium's formality and symmetry were destroyed. I also have never understood why the need for fake bamboo trees
February 12, 20196 yr Speaking of 200 Public Square, what do y'all think of the video board they put on the parking garage facing Euclid? Not sure when it went up, but I first noticed it a few weeks ago...
February 12, 20196 yr I haven't seen that one in particular, but most video boards look like IRL pop-up ads. that you can't block.
February 16, 20196 yr I have a general question about development patterns that I’ve been wondering about and I’m not sure if this right spot to ask/or if it can be answered. Why don’t we see the same type of momentum in Downtown for new buildings that Ohio City is seeing? Church/State, Quarter, Harbor Bay’s new development, Mariners Watch, Edge 32, Clinton West, possibly Casto’s Franklin Circle, etc etc etc. also the numerous townhome developments on the inner west side? A lot of these would be pretty decent scale for parking lots downtown. A Quarter sized development would fit perfectly like anywhere in the warehouse district. I know that there has been a lot of focus on historic building conversions, but I would still think that some of these lots could be built up? Edited February 16, 20196 yr by imjustinjk
February 16, 20196 yr 28 minutes ago, imjustinjk said: I have a general question about development patterns that I’ve been wondering about and I’m not sure if this right spot to ask/or if it can be answered. Why don’t we see the same type of momentum in Downtown for new buildings that Ohio City is seeing? Church/State, Quarter, Harbor Bay’s new development, Mariners Watch, Edge 32, Clinton West, possibly Casto’s Franklin Circle, etc etc etc. also the numerous townhome developments on the inner west side? A lot of these would be pretty decent scale for parking lots downtown. A Quarter sized development would fit perfectly like anywhere in the warehouse district. I know that there has been a lot of focus on historic building conversions, but I would still think that some of these lots could be built up? There's a difference in land costs between ohio city and downtown. Downtown parking lots can generate substantial cash flows from parking revenue. This doesn't really exist in ohio city.
February 16, 20196 yr 11 minutes ago, freefourur said: There's a difference in land costs between ohio city and downtown. Downtown parking lots can generate substantial cash flows from parking revenue. This doesn't really exist in ohio city. Yes, I guess you’re right. Just kind of sad seeing all of these new buildings being constructed in Little Italy/UC, inner west side, etc and not as much in downtown. Hopefully it’ll pick up as historic buildings become more scarce to redevelop. Ohio City is doing amazing and it’s going to really represent what an urban neighborhood should be - especially when W 25th around the hospital gets filled in. I just think that the scale of some of these buildings would fit well downtown. Further Weston already owns a large portion of parking lots downtown and they’ve expressed interest in developing them.
February 16, 20196 yr Author You have to build something big with big cash flows on those parking lots to generate more profit than the parking does. The capital stack for the Lumen apartment building shows just how difficult this can be. An alternative is to reduce the value of the parking lots by reducing their demand. For what it's worth, a single 250-passenger commuter train from/to the suburbs each workday reduces the demand for 2.5 acres of surface parking lot downtown. Put five trains on five routes and you've eliminated the demand for 60 acres of surface parking downtown. That would pretty much eliminate the demand for all of downtown's surface parking inventory. Edited February 16, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 16, 20196 yr Also, between Lumen, Beacon, Halle conversion, Athlon conversion, May Co conversion, and Euclid Grand...Thats almost 1000 new apartments.
February 16, 20196 yr 7 minutes ago, Htsguy said: ^All those buildings combined are way more than 1,000 apartments. You're correct, I just did the math....It's almost 1300 Lumen 318 Halle 122 Athlon 163 Beacon 187 Euclid Grand 200 May Co. 308
February 16, 20196 yr 8 minutes ago, mack34 said: You're correct, I just did the math....It's almost 1300 Lumen 318 Halle 122 Athlon 163 Beacon 187 Euclid Grand 200 May Co. 308 Approximately 1900 new residents give or take.
February 17, 20196 yr Author 12 hours ago, KJP said: You have to build something big with big cash flows on those parking lots to generate more profit than the parking does. The capital stack for the Lumen apartment building shows just how difficult this can be. An alternative is to reduce the value of the parking lots by reducing their demand. For what it's worth, a single 250-passenger commuter train from/to the suburbs each workday reduces the demand for 2.5 acres of surface parking lot downtown. Put five trains on five routes and you've eliminated the demand for 60 acres of surface parking downtown. That would pretty much eliminate the demand for all of downtown's surface parking inventory. I continued my rant/ideas at: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 19, 20196 yr The mayor's budget includes an overview of many projects the city is implementing, starts around page 37 of the pdf, 31 of the document. http://clevelandohio.gov/sites/default/files/cleNowPDFs/2019MayorsEstimate_0.pdf
February 19, 20196 yr I just glanced at the report but it seems like most of it was very old news (often 3-4 years). Very little in the way of updates (especially for people like us who keep on top of things and even make things up in our happy little development minds LOL)
February 19, 20196 yr ^Agreed, didn't see much in there that was really new, although I found it hard to follow along as I think the document is not well put together and doesn't have a coherent structure. Come to think of it, I think they use the same template every year and just update the info.
February 19, 20196 yr Side note with the budget, I wish we would have more debit/credit meters downtown at least fill that part of the city up with them. So much more useful.
February 19, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: Side note with the budget, I wish we would have more debit/credit meters downtown at least fill that part of the city up with them. So much more useful. There's an article on Cleveland.com right now stating the city may be close to issuing an RFP for an app based service to allow people to pay meters with their Credit/Debit cards via their phones. Better than the few pay n displays we have now.
February 19, 20196 yr This is just the preliminary budget estimate, the actual budget will be released sometime early March. Sorry to interrupt the Cleveland bash session. Carry on.
February 20, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: There's an article on Cleveland.com right now stating the city may be close to issuing an RFP for an app based service to allow people to pay meters with their Credit/Debit cards via their phones. Better than the few pay n displays we have now. Yeah, I saw that, talk about perfect timing.
February 22, 20196 yr Scaffolding up on the Prospect side of the Rose/Medical Mutual Building. Anyone know what this is for? Always thought the upper details could use a power wash.
February 22, 20196 yr 10 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: Scaffolding up on the Prospect side of the Rose/Medical Mutual Building. Anyone know what this is for? Always thought the upper details could use a power wash. I'll look again today, but when I walked by the other day there wasn't any scaffolding that went directly up to the building, there was about a 8' gap between this and the windows of their cafeteria, made me think that it'd be for work higher up (if something fell, it'd probably float outward), maybe I'm overthinking it lol
February 22, 20196 yr 13 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: Scaffolding up on the Prospect side of the Rose/Medical Mutual Building. Anyone know what this is for? Always thought the upper details could use a power wash. They are preparing for Some Facade work on the building.
March 1, 20196 yr Author This is great news with the county running out of affordable quality housing.... Cuyahoga County Council approves $30 million housing program https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/02/cuyahoga-county-council-approves-30-million-housing-program.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 9, 20196 yr Anyone have any insight into the ETA of TopGolf? I figured they would want it open by summer, but it looks like they are still a ways away.
March 9, 20196 yr This is an interesting read: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/clevelands-bid-for-amazon-offered-prime-downtown-real-estate-and-unprecedented-city-and-county-tax-breaks.html "Cleveland’s bid for Amazon offered prime downtown real estate and unprecedented city and county tax breaks" But how about these fantasy renderings??? Maybe if Google is coming to Tower City they can just slap their logo up top and start construction? ?
March 9, 20196 yr Looks like they've been playing SIM city. That it is pretty much all of our dream development.
March 10, 20196 yr NO F***ING WAY! I'm sorry but this is big news that they actually released pre-renderings. And it looks like absolute "PRIME" real estate!
March 10, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, JohnSummit said: Looks like Cleveland's answer to Hudson Yards. Funny you say that, NYT today has a frontpage article on HY and their crazy tax breaks in lieu of the Amazon deal (don't mean to derail this thread Haha). If anything then article highlights how it's been 20 some years in the making. Amazon’s Tax Breaks and Incentives Were Big. Hudson Yards’ Are Bigger.
March 10, 20196 yr 15 hours ago, tastybunns said: NO F***ING WAY! I'm sorry but this is big news that they actually released pre-renderings. And it looks like absolute "PRIME" real estate! Amazon Prime.............sorry I'll go.?♂️
March 10, 20196 yr So we were giving them more breaks? Unbelievable! What happened to "the money is always right?"
March 10, 20196 yr 20 hours ago, tastybunns said: NO F***ING WAY! I'm sorry but this is big news that they actually released pre-renderings. And it looks like absolute "PRIME" real estate! Those fantasy renderings of super tall skyscrapers occupying what is now a vast and unsightly sea of surface parking lots in the n.w. quadrant of Public Square has me absolutely SALIVATING!!!!! Too bad those renderings do not represent reality for Cleveland. ??? Oh, and speaking of these aforementioned parking lots, what has ever become of the proposed WESTON super block at this locale? I've not heard any mention of that project in quite sometime ... Anybody out there know anything? ? Edited March 10, 20196 yr by John D. Baumgardner
March 11, 20196 yr Just dead news at this point. I havent heard or seen anything for this project. For the amount of competitors for Jacob's lot it seems like Weston isn't a large priority on that quadrant. If they were willing to give it up to Amazon, Sherwin Williams could easily sweep it from Weston. It's really there for when the time comes since it's right on Public Square. I guess they were trying to save the portion of land to fully tower over Public Square.
March 11, 20196 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr The university / educational opportunities and the "micro-grid" actually made Cleveland's bid stronger than previously thought. Keep in mind that six months ago, the known details of the bid were limited to old office space in Tower City and free transit passes, so this bid is actually impressive. I didn't even have a problem with the financial incentives; the open secret is that pretty much every big business or employer has some sort of tax deferment or incentive tied to it. (Even dollar stores, undeniably the lowest tier of chain retail, have been known to exact subsidies to open locations.) The only real problem was that the whole HQ2 selection process was essentially a pageant where the winner was known well in advance and that all the other bids (Sun Belt and Rust Belt alike) never got a fair shot no matter how exciting or attractive. I was living in Northern Virginia during the selection process and it was very widely expected that Bezos wanted a D.C. area location, as he had other business ties and a residence there. And that's okay, I think Cleveland really dodged a bullet here, as we weren't dragged through a rigged bidding process--unlike our friends in Columbus--and even if we somehow won the bid, dealing with the reality that all those jobs would probably not be created. Edited March 11, 20196 yr by PaxtonMarley
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/9/2019 at 2:50 PM, mrclifton88 said: This is an interesting read: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/clevelands-bid-for-amazon-offered-prime-downtown-real-estate-and-unprecedented-city-and-county-tax-breaks.html "Cleveland’s bid for Amazon offered prime downtown real estate and unprecedented city and county tax breaks" But how about these fantasy renderings??? Maybe if Google is coming to Tower City they can just slap their logo up top and start construction? ? I just noticed the Jenga version of NuCLEus in the background; also, opposite The Q at Ontario and Huron there's a tower (I believe that was the Ferrari proposal?). Also, looks like Tower City Phase 2 is included on the other side of Huron... Looks like the city was playing Sim City indeed ? At least we'll get a version of NuCLEus up soon.
March 11, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said: I just noticed the Jenga version of NuCLEus in the background; also, opposite The Q at Ontario and Huron there's a tower (I believe that was the Ferrari proposal?). Also, looks like Tower City Phase 2 is included on the other side of Huron... Looks like the city was playing Sim City indeed ? At least we'll get a version of NuCLEus up soon. The main tower does look pretty awesome, but judging by the surrounding buildings, it may not have put us in the 1000-foot club.
March 11, 20196 yr Author They also built the Ferrari Tower, the Weston parking garage next Karl's Inn of the Barristers, and Stark's WHD parking crater. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr If we'd have gotten Amazon, all those things would have happened pretty quickly, I bet.
March 12, 20196 yr More Bid News. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/making-public-clevelands-amazon-bid-makes-a-statement-to-potential-future-businesses
March 12, 20196 yr On 3/10/2019 at 10:11 AM, GISguy said: Funny you say that, NYT today has a frontpage article on HY and their crazy tax breaks in lieu of the Amazon deal (don't mean to derail this thread Haha). If anything then article highlights how it's been 20 some years in the making. Amazon’s Tax Breaks and Incentives Were Big. Hudson Yards’ Are Bigger. to be fair, that nytimes article is inaccurate. for one thing hy the railyard is often confused with hy the entire neighborhood around it. the times knows that, they are just fake news/sensationalizing. anyway, amazon and hy are apples and oranges. more: https://nypost.com/2019/03/11/the-new-york-times-wild-lies-about-hudson-yards-subsidies/
March 12, 20196 yr 19 hours ago, simplythis said: More Bid News. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/making-public-clevelands-amazon-bid-makes-a-statement-to-potential-future-businesses The article mentions closing Burke as a possibility in preparing the bid. It comes up now and then, but considering that Amazon selected Crystal City based in part on its proximity to National Airport, having a downtown airport is, in my mind, more of an asset than a liability. Besides it's not like we don't have 100+ acres of unused and underused property all around downtown alone.
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