22 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

It would save a lot of time and money for trucks.  The recreational aspects are just an added benefit.

With the drinking age being 18 you can bet on a lot of young travelers lol. Also with marijuana legalized, heck, this could be quite a tourism draw. 

9 minutes ago, surfohio said:

With the drinking age being 18 you can bet on a lot of young travelers lol. Also with marijuana legalized, heck, this could be quite a tourism draw. 

Not to mention the notorious Windsor for its night life.

5 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

I thought your idea of a park behind Lakeside Court House and City Hall connecting W3 to E9 was interesting. But please don't advocate closing more city streets. We've lost WAY too many streets to private interests in the last few decades. E. 3 is a critical link. If you're on Rockwell and want to go to Superior, without E3 you have to go all through Public Square adding more congestion to Public Square or other streets, more safety hazards, and certainly more carbon emissions. E. 3 is part of the street grid. it does no harm and provides a meaningful public purpose. There's absolutely no reason to close it. There already is open space on THREE SIDES of it--Mall A, Eastman Reading Garden, and Public Square.

 

I don’t think we need any more underused green space added to the group plan. And yes, downtown’s grid and traffic patterns are a complete mess. Causes a lot of unnecessary congestion and carbon emissions. It seems like it’s just pieced together with no real thought to the entire downtown road network. 

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

I biked the lake about five years ago, and there are some gems of towns and great people. Port Stanley was a favorite of mine just a picturesque port town (sorry about the ipod quality photo), and there's a few other neat ports throughout. Fun fact, a lot of Long Point is privately owned. I know this is a Cleveland development thread, but if anyone's bored, here's a link to my blog from the trip (mostly for photos of the places/towns).

Must have been a great trip.  How long did it take you? 

3 hours ago, Terdolph said:

It would save a lot of time and money for trucks.  The recreational aspects are just an added benefit.

Question: would the commercial trucks share the same ferry with passengers? If so, where would this downtown ferry depart from so that it could accommodate numerous 18-wheelers queing up to board said ferry while tying up (I’m assuming) a tremendous amount of asphalt and degrading whatever waterfront property this ferry terminal would occupy. IMO, I love the ferry to Canada idea, but the trucks would have to have a separate location/ferry from the recreational passengers; there’s nowhere downtown that could accommodate the number of trucks idling in place waiting to board, and then those getting off coming in, not simpatico with a pleasant urban waterfront.

Build a consolidated marine terminal downtown that would handle:

*passenger ferry to Canada

*Great Lakes cruise ships

*Jet Express to CP/Islands

*Goodtime

*Nautica Queen

This terminal would be located either on E9 or north of GLSC to make for easy walk from future intermodal terminal under Harbor Land Bridge?.

Commercial truck’s can board their own ferry somewhere on the northern side of Burke; plenty of room there.

43 minutes ago, CleCaneFan said:

Question: would the commercial trucks share the same ferry with passengers? If so, where would this downtown ferry depart from so that it could accommodate numerous 18-wheelers queing up to board said ferry while tying up (I’m assuming) a tremendous amount of asphalt and degrading whatever waterfront property this ferry terminal would occupy. IMO, I love the ferry to Canada idea, but the trucks would have to have a separate location/ferry from the recreational passengers; there’s nowhere downtown that could accommodate the number of trucks idling in place waiting to board, and then those getting off coming in, not simpatico with a pleasant urban waterfront.

There is already acres of paved lots in "The Pit" just to the south of the current "cruise ship terminal" (aka The Port of Cleveland).

The more I think of this the less I see US truckers parking their rigs on a boat and sailing across.  They'd rather burn the fuel and earn their $1.20 a mile or whatever they make.   European truckers are very used to this, plus their very strict hours-of-service laws give them plenty of downtime to sit on ferries.  

3 hours ago, JSC216 said:

 

I don’t think we need any more underused green space added to the group plan. And yes, downtown’s grid and traffic patterns are a complete mess. Causes a lot of unnecessary congestion and carbon emissions. It seems like it’s just pieced together with no real thought to the entire downtown road network. 

More one way streets are needed like other cities.

1 hour ago, CleCaneFan said:

Question: would the commercial trucks share the same ferry with passengers? If so, where would this downtown ferry depart from so that it could accommodate numerous 18-wheelers queing up to board said ferry while tying up (I’m assuming) a tremendous amount of asphalt and degrading whatever waterfront property this ferry terminal would occupy. IMO, I love the ferry to Canada idea, but the trucks would have to have a separate location/ferry from the recreational passengers; there’s nowhere downtown that could accommodate the number of trucks idling in place waiting to board, and then those getting off coming in, not simpatico with a pleasant urban waterfront.

Build a consolidated marine terminal downtown that would handle:

*passenger ferry to Canada

*Great Lakes cruise ships

*Jet Express to CP/Islands

*Goodtime

*Nautica Queen

This terminal would be located either on E9 or north of GLSC to make for easy walk from future intermodal terminal under Harbor Land Bridge?.

Commercial truck’s can board their own ferry somewhere on the northern side of Burke; plenty of room there.

E.55th  would be my first choice for a ferry terminal. I would do away with the truck ferry altogether.

On 7/10/2019 at 7:56 PM, shack said:

I would like to see ferry service from Cleveland to Canada for one. Also, I would like to see the top ground level floor of the Huntington Park Garage behind the County courthouse as well as the Willard Park Garage behind city Hall be converted into a park so that it connects Willard Park and Fort Huntington Park with the Mall, creating a kind of wrap around deck or T shaped park.  It would enhance the beauty of the  two historic buildings from various point of view. i think 3rd street between the old library and the Metzenbaum Couthouse should be converted into a green space as well. That street is very little used and it would perhaps steer some people away  that misaligned and awkward corner between Public square and the Mall.

Two more big ideas (I'm entitled to six): try to convince Cargill to move elsewhere and convert to high rise apartments and make the old river channel into a nice marina. There's one already  tucked back in there at the very end. Convert the salt mine into an underground neighborhood or commercial mall. Refurbish the Big Dipper wooden roller coaster from Geauga Lake and put it on Whiskey Island.

27 minutes ago, shack said:

E.55th  would be my first choice for a ferry terminal. I would do away with the truck ferry altogether.

Only if it's packaged with a new commuter rail terminal. 

9 hours ago, shack said:

Two more big ideas (I'm entitled to six): try to convince Cargill to move elsewhere and convert to high rise apartments and make the old river channel into a nice marina. There's one already  tucked back in there at the very end. Convert the salt mine into an underground neighborhood or commercial mall. Refurbish the Big Dipper wooden roller coaster from Geauga Lake and put it on Whiskey Island.

Sorry, but the Big Dipper roller coaster has already been demolished. Very unceremoniously I might add... but bonus points for creativity?

Neighborhood with the most potential in my opinion: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/07/superior-arts-district-renaissance-continues-with-conversion-of-former-garment-factory-into-housing-cafe.html

In re: Ferry proposal

 

New Cleveland Neighborhood, North Burke or NoBu

 

1) get new Mayor

2) close Burke Airport 

3) use Fred Toguchi designed MCM terminal for Ferry terminal

4) start small, 2 round trips a day on weekends

5) develop planned community around Burke old runway with link to Blue Line transit 

6) Gold Rush!

7 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I wonder why these are not step up units.  If I'm buying on the Lake, a selling feature, each unit should have a lake view.  Extending the Convention Center north and adding hotel would be a plus for the area.

Hotel is already part of the new plans it appears (gray building left of William G. Mather):

2 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Hotel is already part of the new plans it appears (gray building left of William G. Mather):

Thank you.  Is there another link to this project.  I didn't see a hotel listed.

was there any comment on breaking ground? much like NuCleus i feel like we've been talking about this for 5+ years... don't fact check that

On 7/11/2019 at 7:12 PM, JSC216 said:

 

I don’t think we need any more underused green space added to the group plan. And yes, downtown’s grid and traffic patterns are a complete mess. Causes a lot of unnecessary congestion and carbon emissions. It seems like it’s just pieced together with no real thought to the entire downtown road network. 

I think Voinovich Park is an underused green space that should be developed  with Veranda style condos. The group plan green space is there more to impress out of towners which is important. 

Burke Lakefront Airport discussion was moved here:

 

33 minutes ago, X said:

Burke Lakefront Airport discussion was moved here:

 

Doing god's work

 

I would love to post graphics of some of the projects listed in the agenda at the link below. Lots of significant projects in there. But I'm traveling starting tomorrow so I hope others will post them in their respective threads. So keep checking this link to see when the images get posted....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/07192019/index.php

Shoreway at MLK is going to start construction tomorrow and finish up sometime next May. I will be glad when this project is over.

 

This NOACA article gives more information about the project specifics ?

On 7/21/2019 at 9:16 AM, WhatUp said:

Shoreway at MLK is going to start construction tomorrow and finish up sometime next May. I will be glad when this project is over.

 

This NOACA article gives more information about the project specifics ?

I work on Lakeshore Blvd near MLK. This is going to turn my commute into a nightmare for the next 10 months, but I do believe these are necessary improvements. 

Oh wow! This image-heavy agenda should be split up into appropriate threads but here is the general link: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/07192019/index.php#myGallery

15 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

Oh wow! This image-heavy agenda should be split up into appropriate threads but here is the general link: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/07192019/index.php#myGallery

I think much of it was last week with significant follow up discussion on some projects.

16 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

Oh wow! This image-heavy agenda should be split up into appropriate threads but here is the general link: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/07192019/index.php#myGallery

From the prior week as the Scranton design was tabled and going to be redone.

6 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

From the prior week as the Scranton design was tabled and going to be redone.

 

Are you talking about the project listed as "peninsula" on the Planning site?  If you are, I am pleased that they are going to be re-worked.  I am no architect or developer, but the images look more like something ripped from Pinecrest or Crocker Park and not something that embraces the river or the city.

1 minute ago, PaxtonMarley said:

 

Are you talking about the project listed as "peninsula" on the Planning site?  If you are, I am pleased that they are going to be re-worked.  I am no architect or developer, but the images look more like something ripped from Pinecrest or Crocker Park and not something that embraces the river or the city.

Take a peek at the Scranton Peninsula thread last week.  Members of the board (as well as design review) did a pretty good job of trashing it on and on as well as cheering the fact that the project was withdrawn.

I'm sorry I'm taking everyone to memory lane, but how did Ohio Bell Bldg. go from this:

 

To this:

 

And then to this historic garbage:

 

The first one is a rendering of an earlier version, according to this page: https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/794#&gid=1&pid=2

 

 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 31, 2019

Here come Cleveland's mid-rises!

 

Proposed skyscrapers invariably overshadow smaller building projects when it comes to attracting media attention. But mid-rise new-construction projects far outnumber their loftier counterparts in Greater Cleveland.

For purposes of this article, "mid-rise" means buildings in the range of 5-15 stories tall. They are presented below in alphabetical order. Some have been reported here at NEOtrans before. Other new-construction projects that are already well underway are not included or are mentioned in passing, such as Church+State.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/07/here-come-clevelands-mid-rises.html

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 31, 2019

Here come Cleveland's mid-rises!

 

Proposed skyscrapers invariably overshadow smaller building projects when it comes to attracting media attention. But mid-rise new-construction projects far outnumber their loftier counterparts in Greater Cleveland.

For purposes of this article, "mid-rise" means buildings in the range of 5-15 stories tall. They are presented below in alphabetical order. Some have been reported here at NEOtrans before. Other new-construction projects that are already well underway are not included or are mentioned in passing, such as Church+State.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/07/here-come-clevelands-mid-rises.html

Isn't Richard Pace of Cumberland Development?

KJP:   Great article.  Glad to hear that there could be a phase 2 avenue district tower/mid-rise.  

Do we have enough constructions workers around here if most of these projects take off?

30 minutes ago, Eastside said:

Isn't Richard Pace of Cumberland Development?

 

Yes. Got my wires crossed in part of that article. Fixed it.

 

14 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP:   Great article.  Glad to hear that there could be a phase 2 avenue district tower/mid-rise.  

Do we have enough constructions workers around here if most of these projects take off?

 

Probably could use some more.

@KJP does this mean the Market District mid-rise is already underway on W25th?

No, it just means I forgot it. FIXED -- now added.

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by KJP

@KJP, Everytime I begin to realize I can't remember all the middling to smaller development going on you come out with a fantastic article summarizing most of it. Thank you for this. 

I believe the foundations are already built for the next phase of The Avenue District, no?

@KJP I guess it's good to forget, because there's a few more you forgot to add. Too much stuff not enough space, but you need to add Franklin Circle and FEB Phase III. I know FEB has been malingering for a while. Both of these projects have gone relatively silent.

9 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

@KJP I guess it's good to forget, because there's a few more you forgot to add. Too much stuff not enough space, but you need to add Franklin Circle and FEB Phase III. I know FEB has been malingering for a while. Both of these projects have gone relatively silent.

Are you referring to another Franklin Circle project other than Dexter Place (which @KJP mentioned in his introductory paragraph and indicated that he was not discussing it along with State and Church since they both are already under construction-Church and State for more than 6 months and Dexter Place for over a month-there are some pics of construction in the Ohio City thread). 

Was totally unaware of it being renamed to Dexter. Are we implying that it's already under construction, or was there too much backlash from the NIMBYs?

I should have included FEB phase 3, but I'm getting expressions/senses of doubt from sources that it will get built. Not information, mind you, just "feelings." Could be unwarranted pessimism. We'll see. 

1 minute ago, tastybunns said:

Was totally unaware of it being renamed to Dexter. Are we implying that it's already under construction, or was there too much backlash from the NIMBYs?

 

It's under construction. Photos are posted here at UO.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

I should have included FEB phase 3, but I'm getting expressions/senses of doubt from sources that it will get built. Not information, mind you, just "feelings." Could be unwarranted pessimism. We'll see. 

Why is is FEB constantly having issues getting stated. It is like the lakefront project. 

17 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

Because the waterfront line doesn't run frequently enough.

 

Obviously financing is the main factor, but I’m with you on your frustrations on the Waterfront Line.  How infuriating is it to hear both Wolstein and FEB visitors complaining about traffic in and out of the Flats while simultaneously getting proposals from RTA that involve eliminating Waterfront Line service? It’s just mind numbing. Run frequent WL service to the Muni lots (and Tower City) Thurs-Sat evenings. Promote the hell out of it. Flats traffic problem solved. 

Edited August 1, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Typo

3 hours ago, simplythis said:

Why is is FEB constantly having issues getting stated. It is like the lakefront project. 

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

On 8/1/2019 at 2:22 AM, Dougal said:

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

 

It's crazy to think a market the size of Cleveland couldn't handle a few hundred micro apartments. Hell, we could probably use a few thousand.

 

And downtown Cleveland isn't that affordable, even comparatively speaking.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/07/29/university-circles-rent-prices-have-grown-nearly-50-percent-over-past-year-new-report-finds

On 8/1/2019 at 2:22 AM, Dougal said:

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

 

500 sq feet really is enough space for anyone. I know plenty of people who have lived in smaller spaces, plus millennials are known for having less stuff than the previous few generations. But ultimately, price drives economic activity.  A lot of people would like to live Downtown but can't afford $2000/month--which comes with space they don't need but its the cheapest out there. Many would gladly pay $1100 for a smaller place if it were Downtown.

Just now, Pugu said:

 

500 sq feet really is enough space for anyone. I know plenty of people who have lived in smaller spaces, plus millennials are known for having less stuff than the previous few generations. But ultimately, price drives economic activity.  A lot of people would like to live Downtown but can't afford $2000/month--which comes with space they don't need but its the cheapest out there. Many would gladly pay $1100 for a smaller place if it were Downtown.

That's my thought. At $2.50 psf a 500sf apartment is $1,250 per month which is doable for renters and makes new construction more likely. 

On 8/2/2019 at 10:39 AM, freefourur said:

That's my thought. At $2.50 psf a 500sf apartment is $1,250 per month which is doable for renters and makes new construction more likely. 

 

Preface—please PM me if you know how to quote something between threads, because I wanted to quote this but move to FEB thread. Now that that’s out of the way:

 

In my personal, and possibly humble, opinion,  the issue bigger than micro-apartments is lack of neighborhood character. I’d be happy to move into a small apartment if the community around me were desirable. I’d be happy to shell out more for a bigger place for the same reason. 

 

FEB is missing fundamental components needed for a happy community. It’s a bunch of bars and clubs with no neighborhood amenities. The office tower has an overpriced, limited-selection, always closed “grocery store.” The office tower also has an incredibly subpar—and almost always closed—coffee shop.

 

If I’m moving somewhere, I’d want a coffee shop, a dessert place, a pharmacy, a bookstore, etc. The things that add variety and convenience to an otherwise mundane and hectic life. 

 

FEB has the same businesses in 30 different varieties (i.e., weekend watering holes), but nothing else. It’s just far enough away from CVS and Heinen’s—especially because of the psychological effect of the hill and WHD parking lots—that it feels like an island of futility. 

 

Increasing frequency of the waterfront line won’t help. For years, I traveled between my office in Terminal Tower, meetings at EY, and my apartment at Reserve Square. Grant you, I would walk from TT to EY most of the time since the waterfront didn’t line up with my meeting schedule, but even so, that walk isn’t bad.

 

It’s more that the waterfront line doesn’t get you anywhere from FEB. Once you get to TT, you still have to walk to CVS or Heinen’s and then all the way back (with groceries). You could also take the trolley (which I often did), but even that doesn’t get you up/down the hill—and you’re stuck going around public square and around all of downtown, to get home. It often leaves walking as the most expeditious, albeit still inconvenient, option. 

 

If I have the option of settling in the Flats and adding the walks to my chaotic life—or saving some money to be at a less nice and shottily managed apartment (here’s to you, K&D) closer to the weekly needs rather than the weekend wants—I’ll take shitty K&D every time... (or follow my GF to Cleveland Heights against my will ?).