13 minutes ago, nate said:

Jesus Christ, for all of Cleveland's problems, I thought there would be less advocates for a 40 story courthouse paid for with public funds. Are y'all dense or what? How about using some of the money to make us not the poorest city in America, rather than rewarding those who uphold a garbage system with a billion dollar shiny tower. 

 

I responded here. The existing Justice Center is part of Cleveland's problems.....

 

 

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

I responded here. The existing Justice Center is part of Cleveland's problems.....

 

 

@nateYou have to remember this site has a very vocal Skyscrsper enthusiast membership.

 

That said, as KJP mentioned the Justice Center is a huge problem, both in the conditions for inmates and the functionality of the building. Not to mention all the tax payer dollars needing to be dumped into it just to keep it functioning at its current unfunctional level. 

 

It's like a leaky roof, if you don't address it the problem is going to get bigger and bigger. The County decided its best to cut losses now by investing in a new facility. 

 

The culture and economic issues making Cleveland the poorest also need to be addressed however. That problem though is a lot more difficult to solve than just building a new building. Those issues require politicians and voters to work together to find long term solutions to change the culture and the vacuum of jobs in our poorest neighborhoods. Money will help, but is not the only answer.

15 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

@nateYou have to remember this site has a very vocal Skyscrsper enthusiast membership.

 

That said, as KJP mentioned the Justice Center is a huge problem, both in the conditions for inmates and the functionality of the building. Not to mention all the tax payer dollars needing to be dumped into it just to keep it functioning at its current unfunctional level. 

 

It's like a leaky roof, if you don't address it the problem is going to get bigger and bigger. The County decided its best to cut losses now by investing in a new facility. 

 

The culture and economic issues making Cleveland the poorest also need to be addressed however. That problem though is a lot more difficult to solve than just building a new building. Those issues require politicians and voters to work together to find long term solutions to change the culture and the vacuum of jobs in our poorest neighborhoods. Money will help, but is not the only answer.

I love a good skyscrapper as much as the next guy, but as we see inequality in our neighborhoods exacerbated by COVID, priorities must take place. I thought the Justice Center wasnt even that old? I was in there a few years ago and it looked pretty well upkept. I will say I agree the inmates need better conditions. If they cant renovate that for less than building a new building, it needs to be done as efficiently and with as little use of public funds as possible. No 40 story skyscrapper just for the hell of it. 

19 minutes ago, nate said:

I love a good skyscrapper as much as the next guy, but as we see inequality in our neighborhoods exacerbated by COVID, priorities must take place. I thought the Justice Center wasnt even that old? I was in there a few years ago and it looked pretty well upkept. I will say I agree the inmates need better conditions. If they cant renovate that for less than building a new building, it needs to be done as efficiently and with as little use of public funds as possible. No 40 story skyscrapper just for the hell of it. 

 

I understand what you're saying as far as other problems existing that should take precedent over this kind of project.

With that said, renovating the current structure is scary to think about.  Considering the time period it was built, asbestos in and of itself would be costly to abate.  I recently heard from Trumbull County that a hospital that they need to demolish in Warren will cost over $4 million in asbestos abatement.

My head is going to explode. Good God. Ok, where do we start?

1. The jail is in horrendously bad shape. That in and of itself contributes to inequities. 
2. the Justice Center is also in bad shape, out of date and does not serve the population that it deals with or the community as a whole very well.

3. This is literally a public building, there’s no way to not use public funds to build a PUBLIC BUILDING. Jesus. 
4. I agree we need to address inequities in our neighborhoods. Totally agree. However, downtown IS a neighborhood. And the Justice Center does have an impact on economic activity around it. That’s WHY it was built in the first place. (Personally I hope the new Justice Center will have even more of an impact economically on the area around it, I think one of the reasons we need a new one is to make sure that we are intentional about that, but the point stands).

5. We need the jail separated from the Justice Center. It’s hard to go as far as I would like to go in terms of making the Justice Center have a stronger economic impact with a jail right there. And the jail needs to be bigger, cleaner and actually up to the standards we expect jails to be in in this century in a first world country.

6. Finally, I HATE this false choice between “downtown vs the neighborhoods”. Downtown IS a neighborhood, and we need to do BOTH. If your downtown isn’t the strongest that it can possibly be (including with things like a good and efficient Justice Center contributing to the economics of the area around it) then your city is DEAD. And if your downtown is dead, your city is dead so what is that gonna do for the neighborhoods? Do you know how many office buildings downtown have a bunch of law firm tenants who are there ONLY because of the presence of the Justice Center? You don’t think those people have an impact on downtown? You’ll get no argument from me that we should do more for our other neighborhoods. I was arguing just that in another section of this forum the other day. But that doesn’t mean we neglect downtown. Downtown and UC are the only economic engines we got right now. If you want to increase inequities, neglect your job centers. That’s a good way to do it. We need more jobs, not less. And to the extent that a new JC is deliberately built to have an impact on the area around it and the fact that there are jobs attached to its presence, I’m all for it. We absolutely need to address our high poverty rate. Neglecting the few areas where you do have jobs is not the way to do it

Edited September 28, 20204 yr by inlovewithCLE

Helllooooo

 

 

Trying to post in the " Cleveland: Detroit-Shoreway / Gordon Square Arts District: Development and News" thread but it is locked for replies?

 

Wanted to see if anyone had any info on "The Gramercy" that Knez is building in Gordon Square - its listed in the coming soon section of their site (https://knez.net/townhomes/)

I’m not sure if this is it, but there is a knez sign on a small plot of land on the corner of Lake ave and (I think) W 83rd.  Prob big enough for a small townhome project. 

22 minutes ago, Morningtheft2 said:

I’m not sure if this is it, but there is a knez sign on a small plot of land on the corner of Lake ave and (I think) W 83rd.  Prob big enough for a small townhome project. 

 

Is that on the south side of Lake? BTW I see that a Los Angeles-based firm bought the NW corner of Lake and West 83rd in January for $700,000.

It's unlocked now.

2 hours ago, Morningtheft2 said:

I’m not sure if this is it, but there is a knez sign on a small plot of land on the corner of Lake ave and (I think) W 83rd.  Prob big enough for a small townhome project. 

There are some Knez homes going in on W 85th--maybe they also have some lots on 83rd and the sign is just advertising these?  

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Is that on the south side of Lake? BTW I see that a Los Angeles-based firm bought the NW corner of Lake and West 83rd in January for $700,000.

SE corner

7 hours ago, sjhruby said:

Trying to post in the " Cleveland: Detroit-Shoreway / Gordon Square Arts District: Development and News" thread but it is locked for replies?

 

Wanted to see if anyone had any info on "The Gramercy" that Knez is building in Gordon Square - its listed in the coming soon section of their site (https://knez.net/townhomes/)

I think that refers to the townhomes that went up on 45/Lorain. Although all the Knez projects are so uniformly generic it’s hard to tell. 

Good News. Heinen's to re-open. https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/10/01/downtown-cleveland-heinens-reopening-next-week/

22 hours ago, sjhruby said:

Trying to post in the " Cleveland: Detroit-Shoreway / Gordon Square Arts District: Development and News" thread but it is locked for replies?

 

Wanted to see if anyone had any info on "The Gramercy" that Knez is building in Gordon Square - its listed in the coming soon section of their site (https://knez.net/townhomes/)

 

The w47th St 'block' club was unfortunately successful in blocking this development because they didn't like the density it would bring. The investor is preparing for a court battle against said club.

Just absurd that they would block productive development like this.  These are townhomes that aren't really anymore dense than other homes in the area.  It's not like they are building a Hong Kong style micro apartment tower.

55 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

The w47th St 'block' club was unfortunately successful in blocking this development because they didn't like the density it would bring. The investor is preparing for a court battle against said club.

 

Are these the proposed townhomes on the southwest corner of 47th and Bridge then? 

^ indeed

Thanks @Clefan98That's frustrating. Bridge is a streetcar street, mini commercial corridor.  If there is any place this type of density should be built it's here, but instead we allowed a single family to take up two parcels right across the street from this. I'm going to ask around to try to get involved.

IX Center news. https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-the-untold-story-behind-i-x-centers-closing-and-whats-next/

16 hours ago, simplythis said:

IX Center news. https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-the-untold-story-behind-i-x-centers-closing-and-whats-next/

 

Interesting news.  Making the center into a warehouse, as has been suggested, is a waste of an asset.  "Logistics" operators can afford new construction; but 2.2 million sq ft exhibit halls are tough to come by.  The city should find a new operator and continue using the building as before.

1 minute ago, Dougal said:

 

Interesting news.  Making the center into a warehouse, as has been suggested, is a waste of an asset.  "Logistics" operators can afford new construction; but 2.2 million sq ft exhibit halls are tough to come by.  The city should find a new operator and continue using the building as before.

 

Except they were only using half of the 2.2 million square feet for exhibition. 750,000 SF remains on the market for warehousing, etc.

Sorry, not development related but I was out of town for the past two weeks and some (and off the forum) and fully expected SHW to be on the front page. Says something about the city that there's so much going on that SHW is essentially buried...

 

Sidenote, the trip gave me the opportunity to see similarly sized downtown cores (SLC, KC, STL, Indy) and larger spots from the car (and occasionally bike), and I've got to say our skyline is definitely unique for the midwest (or wherever we are) and is more impressive than we give it credit for...

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by GISguy

9 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Sorry, not development related but I was out of town for the past two weeks and some (and off the forum) and fully expected SHW to be on the front page. Says something about the city that there's so much going on that SHW is essentially buried...

 

Sidenote, the trip gave me the opportunity to see similarly sized cities from (SLC, KC, STL, Indy) and larger spots from the car (and occasionally bike), and I've got to say our skyline is definitely unique for the midwest (or wherever we are) and is more impressive than we give it credit for...

 

And lots of stuff percolating just out of view right now. There are five high-rise apartment buildings in various stages of development. Two are downtown (City Club & anonymous), three in UC (two at CircleSquare, one at a site I reported about in August ? ). There's another in UC that may come about, but I don't know how serious it is yet. And there are a ton of office-related moves in the very early stages although I don't know how many will actually result in new construction downtown. In addition to SHW, there's CrossCountry Mortgage is moving their growing HQ downtown from Brecksville. Cleveland-Cliffs will require a move from 200 Public Square to somewhere. A North Olmsted-based company is looking for larger office space. A growing local bank is looking for larger HQ space. So is a big, growing accounting firm. A Beachwood-based manufacturing company is looking for new offices and plant. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The wildcard in all of this is the 496,000 SF 45 Erieview Plaza (aka The Ellipse) which sold for a bargain $14.9 million at auction in late August but the buyer walked away during the due dilligence period. The building's average floorplates are huge -- 32,000 SF. That's apparently proving to be a tough sell for most end users.

27 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

And lots of stuff percolating just out of view right now. There are five high-rise apartment buildings in various stages of development. Two are downtown (City Club & anonymous), three in UC (two at CircleSquare, one at a site I reported about in August ? ). There's another in UC that may come about, but I don't know how serious it is yet. And there are a ton of office-related moves in the very early stages although I don't know how many will actually result in new construction downtown. In addition to SHW, there's CrossCountry Mortgage is moving their growing HQ downtown from Brecksville. Cleveland-Cliffs will require a move from 200 Public Square to somewhere. A North Olmsted-based company is looking for larger office space. A growing local bank is looking for larger HQ space. So is a big, growing accounting firm. A Beachwood-based manufacturing company is looking for new offices and plant. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The wildcard in all of this is the 496,000 SF 45 Erieview Plaza (aka The Ellipse) which sold for a bargain $14.9 million at auction in late August but the buyer walked away during the due dilligence period. The building's average floorplates are huge -- 32,000 SF. That's apparently proving to be a tough sell for most end users.

So that’s a done deal for Cross Country? I know there was a little bit of back and forth there for a minute. And can we get excited, is it certain that Cliff’s are gonna be looking for a new HQ?

2 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

So that’s a done deal for Cross Country? I know there was a little bit of back and forth there for a minute. And can we get excited, is it certain that Cliff’s are gonna be looking for a new HQ?

 

Nothing's a done deal until there's shovels in the ground, but I'd say that things are moving forward very seriously about CrossCountry relocating downtown. As for Cliffs, it's my read of the data that they are going to be looking for a new HQ. I may be wrong, but I spelled out my reasoning why at: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/10/could-cliffs-acquisitions-bring-another.html

2 hours ago, KJP said:

A North Olmsted-based company is looking for larger office space.

 

I assume this can only mean Moen

4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

And lots of stuff percolating just out of view right now. There are five high-rise apartment buildings in various stages of development. Two are downtown (City Club & anonymous), three in UC (two at CircleSquare, one at a site I reported about in August ? ). There's another in UC that may come about, but I don't know how serious it is yet. And there are a ton of office-related moves in the very early stages although I don't know how many will actually result in new construction downtown. In addition to SHW, there's CrossCountry Mortgage is moving their growing HQ downtown from Brecksville. Cleveland-Cliffs will require a move from 200 Public Square to somewhere. A North Olmsted-based company is looking for larger office space. A growing local bank is looking for larger HQ space. So is a big, growing accounting firm. A Beachwood-based manufacturing company is looking for new offices and plant. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The wildcard in all of this is the 496,000 SF 45 Erieview Plaza (aka The Ellipse) which sold for a bargain $14.9 million at auction in late August but the buyer walked away during the due dilligence period. The building's average floorplates are huge -- 32,000 SF. That's apparently proving to be a tough sell for most end users.

Does the other UC project include the Meijer store or something else?

4 hours ago, infrafreak said:

 

I assume this can only mean Moen

That would be huge 

7 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

That would be huge 

 

As for alternatives...you decide https://www.north-olmsted.com/download/Planning/Business and Development/North Olmsted Largest Employers.pdf

3 hours ago, scg80 said:

Does the other UC project include the Meijer store or something else?

I'm assuming it's either that or where ORCA House was demolished across the street from the planned Mews on E 90th. Not UC but the greater UC area...

EDIT: Nvm KJP says it's Meijer. Never expected this to turn out to be be a high-rise!

Edited October 7, 20204 yr by tykaps

3 hours ago, scg80 said:

Does the other UC project include the Meijer store or something else?

 

Meijer store

30 minutes ago, infrafreak said:

 

As for alternatives...you decide https://www.north-olmsted.com/download/Planning/Business and Development/North Olmsted Largest Employers.pdf

 

BTW, you just reminded me that FM Global is also looking for space. They considered moving to One Lakewood Place before Carnegie pulled out. 

I don't have any insider knowledge, but I can't see Moen moving into the City.  They'll probably stay put and expand there, or move out to North Ridgeville or Avon or someplace like that.

7 minutes ago, X said:

I don't have any insider knowledge, but I can't see Moen moving into the City.  They'll probably stay put and expand there, or move out to North Ridgeville or Avon or someplace like that.

@KJP what are u hearing?

^I know some former employees and agree with you. In fact, it might be a win simply keeping them in NEO. 

29 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

@KJP what are u hearing?

 

Just that Moen USA doesn't want to stay in their existing HQ.

9 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Just that Moen USA doesn't want to stay in their existing HQ.

 

KJP, you mentioned a month or so ago that there was some potential office high rise talk due to spin off from SW HQ construction.  Are you still hearing about possible office high rises?

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Just that Moen USA doesn't want to stay in their existing HQ.

Moen has outgrown their space. They’re renting a lot of space in the low-rise office buildings just south of the mall on country club Blvd for the next few years; but it’s definitely not optimal. 

32 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

KJP, you mentioned a month or so ago that there was some potential office high rise talk due to spin off from SW HQ construction.  Are you still hearing about possible office high rises?

 

Nothing definitive. Just speculation -- such as where all of these office users might end up. If some developer can convince a few of these companies to co-locate, then we might see a high-rise or two.

22 hours ago, KJP said:

 

There are five high-rise apartment buildings in various stages of development. Two are downtown (City Club & anonymous)

Is the anonymous downtown development further along than The Viaduct?

1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Is the anonymous downtown development further along than The Viaduct?

 

Hard to say. I know that The Viaduct hasn't received its financing from the port authority yet but I don't know if the anonymous tower has its financing. I will say that the anonymous tower is backed by a developer that drops 30+ story towers on the landscape with apparent ease compared to The Viaduct's developer that has no experience with even moderately sized new construction projects.

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Hard to say. I know that The Viaduct hasn't received its financing from the port authority yet but I don't know if the anonymous tower has its financing. I will say that the anonymous tower is backed by a developer that drops 30+ story towers on the landscape with apparent ease compared to The Viaduct's developer that has no experience with even moderately sized new construction projects.

 

Hmmm. I wonder who that could be.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Hard to say. I know that The Viaduct hasn't received its financing from the port authority yet but I don't know if the anonymous tower has its financing. I will say that the anonymous tower is backed by a developer that drops 30+ story towers on the landscape with apparent ease compared to The Viaduct's developer that has no experience with even moderately sized new construction projects.

 

 

Sounds exciting and promising!!  Hopefully that tower will lead to other spin-off towers much like SHW has done. 

 

A couple questions in regards to this tower:

1-is there any location speculation?

2-is there any size speculation, above you mentioned 30+ story's, is that what you're hearing?

3-is there an estimated time until you can reveal more in detail, or that they will announce it publicly?

 

Thanks for sharing and all you do to keep us in the know about the exiting things in CLE!

No speculation as to location needed. I know where it is proposed to be built but I cannot say because it will out the source. But I can tell you that the project would be a spinoff of the Sherwin Williams headquarters.

 

I was also told the approximate size. But I do not know a start date yet. In fact I don't even know if it's going to be built. If I get more definitive information that it will be built, then I will write the article.

it is obviously one of the vacant lots close to SHW headquarters

My money is on a 50 story condo building by Realife with a minority investment stake by Optima.

Ken, I'm trying to figure out what is an example of spin-off development. Hotel? Sure but we don't need another hotel and other than that what is an example of spin-off development vs. regular development?

18 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

My money is on a 50 story condo building by Realife with a minority investment stake by Optima.

 

Ouch....

39 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

My money is on a 50 story condo building by Realife with a minority investment stake by Optima.

Can we get Stark to develop it? As always with these projects, you need to strike while the iron is hot. I wouldn’t want it to languish in development purgatory.