February 18, 20232 yr While the tone of the quotes in this article are negative, I think reading between the lines, it’s either encouraging or neutral. You can learn a lot from the airing of grievances. There is ALWAYS something to complain about. The staffing issues are (I’m sure) annoying, but I don’t get the impression they actually threaten any projects. If Whalen needs to get approval this year, he has 10 months to do that. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and I read his complaint as a (legitimate) attempt to get to the top of the pile. The complaints about the standard abatement are also to be expected. But the new program is comparable to what already exists in many similar markets. If you look at how much rents have gone up here, I’m pretty confident the impact of the lower abatement will be minimal. The city needs revenue. Maybe the lower abatement will let the city address the staffing shortages down the pike. 🙂
February 27, 20232 yr Author Yep, my bad. Here it is... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20232 yr We can legally bet here now people!! Lets get the odds rolled out. Start with Bedrock/Nucleus site at +150?
February 27, 20232 yr Rumor floating around is a Haslam threat of moving the Brownies and using the stadium as bait.
February 27, 20232 yr 16 minutes ago, GISguy said: Rumor floating around is a Haslam threat of moving the Brownies and using the stadium as bait. Good riddance.
February 27, 20232 yr The information behind this story has leaked. Here it is. https://fox8.com/news/rare-deer-spotted-in-north-olmsted/
February 27, 20232 yr If the Haslams are about to whine about being too poor to invest money because they just bought the Bucks...Maybe they should sell the team. That'd be short-term devastating for lakefront plans but a long term win for the city.
February 27, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, GISguy said: Rumor floating around is a Haslam threat of moving the Brownies and using the stadium as bait. Fingers crossed
February 27, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said: If the Haslams are about to whine about being too poor to invest money because they just bought the Bucks...Maybe they should sell the team. That'd be short-term devastating for lakefront plans but a long term win for the city. I can't imagine both tower city and lakefront plans happening. I think it will be either one or the other. If so, I'd rather see tower city. Edited February 27, 20232 yr by LibertyBlvd
February 27, 20232 yr If it was the Lakefront or Tower City plan, would the bomb have been place in those threads. Could we assume with it being in the Random Thread, that it is something new? Edited February 27, 20232 yr by scg80
February 27, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, scg80 said: If it was the Lakefront or Tower City plan, would the bomb have been place in those threads. Could we assume with it being in the Random Thread, that it is something new? Maybe @KJP doesn't want to reveal too much until the bomb drops.
February 27, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Cleveland said: Maybe it is a new headquarters moving to Cleveland? I'm crossing my fingers it's this, but based on the Twitter interactions, seems much more likely Jimmy Haslam is going to torpedo lakefront plans, or ask the city to give him two billion dollars, or move the stadium to Berea or some bull**** like that...
February 27, 20232 yr 10 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: 23 minutes ago, Cleveland said: Maybe it is a new headquarters moving to Cleveland? I'm crossing my fingers it's this, but based on the Twitter interactions, seems much more likely Jimmy Haslam is going to torpedo lakefront plans, or ask the city to give him two billion dollars, or move the stadium to Berea or some bull**** like that... lol yes - always underestimate the Haslam's Help Cleveland! I just bought a quarter of an NBA championship winning team in another City (for ~$900 million!) I don't have money to help with your lakefront. Go build me a stadium so I can draw even more revenue out of your fandom.
February 27, 20232 yr Yeah I get the sinking feeling that they’re now pursuing a new stadium in Richfield, Independence or Berea. The timing of this incoming bomb still has me confused. One thing I know for sure if there’s money to be made by developing the lakefront the Haslam’s will do it. Our views of what’s feasible and their views of what’s feasible I’m betting differ drastically.
February 27, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: One thing I know for sure if there’s easy money to be made within a short timeframe by developing the lakefront in a way that also doesn't make them feel like they're giving up any control of current assets the Haslam’s will find someone else to do it for them. FTFY ;)
February 27, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: FTFY ;) LOL. Nothing like having a good lawyer on hand to clean up my affirmations.
February 27, 20232 yr My guess, based on the tidbits I’ve seen so far: Haslam wants/wanted the the St. Clair Avenue that @KJP alluded to last year in this article. Instead, the city rejected his idea and they’re moving onto Plan B. Is that the Main Post Office? On the lake at the current site? Somewhere completely different? I guess we’ll have to find out! Edit: I could also seen him using the lakefront plans as leverage for a new stadium, as someone mentioned above. That would be disappointing. Edited February 27, 20232 yr by BuckeyeNative
February 27, 20232 yr Pretty sure the Haslams cannot legally move the Browns out of the city so I wouldn’t worry about that one.
February 27, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, JB said: Pretty sure the Haslams cannot legally move the Browns out of the city so I wouldn’t worry about that one. The city every day of the week the state maybe not
February 27, 20232 yr Yep, my bad. Here it is... Are you dropping it today or are you being asked to wait til tomorrow?
February 27, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, JB said: Pretty sure the Haslams cannot legally move the Browns out of the city so I wouldn’t worry about that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns_relocation_controversy Technically, the Browns never moved. They were deactivated and Baltimore was granted an expansion team. But to get back on topic, the tweets seem to be from Comprehensive Zoning Services which is an environmental/surveying company, so I'd guess the news is about site selection for a new stadium. They consider it bad news, so I would think that might mean potentially abandoning downtown.
February 27, 20232 yr 40 minutes ago, Dino said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns_relocation_controversy Technically, the Browns never moved. They were deactivated and Baltimore was granted an expansion team. But to get back on topic, the tweets seem to be from Comprehensive Zoning Services which is an environmental/surveying company, so I'd guess the news is about site selection for a new stadium. They consider it bad news, so I would think that might mean potentially abandoning downtown. Meh while I like it downtown, should we really be concerned with a building that gets used 10 days a year?
February 27, 20232 yr This is me speculating by trying to piece things together. But could the team be looking to build a stadium way south ... like Lodi south? There is land all around the 71/76 interchange. 76 is convenient for the Akron and Youngstown areas. It also chips off 45 minutes from northern portions of Columbus, an area the Browns probably feel like they are losing their grip on. It would suck for everybody in Cuyahoga County, especialy eastsiders, but 271 does merge with 71 in Medina (10-15 miles north of 71-76). On top of that, there is the revived 3C corridor talks. Could a stop be added in that area if there would be plans to build a stadium way out there??? Again, just speculating and I would personally hate it, but the team did look to move to Strongsville in the 70s/80s (where South Park Mall now is), so "going south" wouldn't be a brand new idea.
February 27, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Rando Sinclair said: This is me speculating by trying to piece things together. But could the team be looking to build a stadium way south ... like Lodi south? There is land all around the 71/76 interchange. 76 is convenient for the Akron and Youngstown areas. It also chips off 45 minutes from northern portions of Columbus, an area the Browns probably feel like they are losing their grip on. It would suck for everybody in Cuyahoga County, especialy eastsiders, but 271 does merge with 71 in Medina (10-15 miles north of 71-76). On top of that, there is the revived 3C corridor talks. Could a stop be added in that area if there would be plans to build a stadium way out there??? Again, just speculating and I would personally hate it, but the team did look to move to Strongsville in the 70s/80s (where South Park Mall now is), so "going south" wouldn't be a brand new idea. It would be awesome if they moved out of the county and were no longer entirely our financial burden. edit: worst case is they move to the fringes of Cuyahoga and still get all of their funding from a countywide tax. That is why I am betting my (meager) 401k on that happening. Edited February 27, 20232 yr by bumsquare
February 27, 20232 yr if they leave downtown, I prefer that they move out of the county. Reallocate the sin tax dollars elsewhere
February 27, 20232 yr Author Posted here.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27, 20232 yr I was starting to panic that they were ready to flee for Strongsville after those posts. I think we are a good bit before that is a consideration. Remember Haslam played a big part in the Crew moving Downtown. Thats his idea, a stadium anchoring a mixed use district in an existing built up setting. I preferred the Post Office site personally, the sweet spot for an NFL stadium is on the edge of Downtown, i.e. Pittsburgh or Seattle. Its definitely not Orchard Park, New York surrounded by a sea of parking.
February 28, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Dino said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns_relocation_controversy Technically, the Browns never moved. They were deactivated and Baltimore was granted an expansion team. But to get back on topic, the tweets seem to be from Comprehensive Zoning Services which is an environmental/surveying company, so I'd guess the news is about site selection for a new stadium. They consider it bad news, so I would think that might mean potentially abandoning downtown. I am Comprehensive Zoning Services... Also involved in many downtown developments, as well as various deals in Tremont, Hough and Glenville. I spoke with Ken at length about this and we were both hearing the same things. It's worse than the article made it out to be with the city, trust me on this one. I don't spew out bulls**t info on any deals, and Ken can attest to that
February 28, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, zbaris87 said: I am Comprehensive Zoning Services... Also involved in many downtown developments, as well as various deals in Tremont, Hough and Glenville. I spoke with Ken at length about this and we were both hearing the same things. It's worse than the article made it out to be with the city, trust me on this one. I don't spew out bulls**t info on any deals, and Ken can attest to that As far as I can tell you haven't actually "spewed out" anything really specific so it is hard to determine whether it is bulls**t or not.
February 28, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, zbaris87 said: I am Comprehensive Zoning Services... Also involved in many downtown developments, as well as various deals in Tremont, Hough and Glenville. I spoke with Ken at length about this and we were both hearing the same things. It's worse than the article made it out to be with the city, trust me on this one. I don't spew out bulls**t info on any deals, and Ken can attest to that So you’re the one that overhyped the story? Seeing a lot of backlash the way this was presented before the article dropped.
February 28, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, zbaris87 said: I am Comprehensive Zoning Services... Also involved in many downtown developments, as well as various deals in Tremont, Hough and Glenville. I spoke with Ken at length about this and we were both hearing the same things. It's worse than the article made it out to be with the city, trust me on this one. I don't spew out bulls**t info on any deals, and Ken can attest to that So when you are saying that it is worse than the article made it out to be WHAT exactly do you mean
February 28, 20232 yr i didn't overhype the story, Ken toned it down to avoid pissing certain people off
February 28, 20232 yr Author @zbaris87is who he says he is. Regarding the evolution of today's story, I will comment on it in the Lakefront thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 1, 20232 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/03/public-meeting-scheduled-march-7-to-address-physical-isolation-of-lakeview-estates-caused-by-west-shoreway.html
March 1, 20232 yr There is a crazy amount of trucks that drive up and down those streets in the West Bank Flats every day. I drive through every morning and the traffic is constant so I agree this needs to be addressed. I believe for now they were told not to drive through Lakeview Estates and go around it up Main Ave but that is just me remembering reading that somewhere. Also I thought I remember hearing that Ontario Stone put up their property for sale a bit ago? Could help solve a part of the problem for the truck traffic. Found an article about the Ontario Stone property being listed: https://www.crescorealestate.com/blog/ontario-stone-property-downtown-cleveland/ Edited March 1, 20232 yr by dwolfi01
March 5, 20232 yr Author Cross-posted in the downtown Cleveland office thread More downtown firms making moves By Ken Prendergast / March 5, 2023 Three legal and financial service firms in downtown Cleveland are on the move to new addresses in the central business district, with two firms seeking smaller spaces as part of an ongoing trend by many office-based employers to downsize their work spaces after the pandemic. The third firm moved to accommodate significant new growth in Cleveland. And each firm is staying downtown, investing in their new office locations, with none of the three seeking a reduction in employment. Indeed, even as some office spaces shrink, the number of employees at those tenants’ aren’t shrinking. Instead, they are taking advantage of remote working and web-based contact with clients. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/03/05/more-downtown-firms-making-moves/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 7, 20232 yr Author Cross-posted in the Cleveland Business thread Chicago builder expands to Cleveland By Ken Prendergast / March 6, 2023 Chicago-based Leopardo Companies is already making a name for itself in Cleveland by serving as the construction manager of two major development projects in downtown. But while some construction companies might be content with overseeing a couple of big building projects in a secondary market like Cleveland before moving on to the next opportunity somewhere else in the country, Leopardo has different ideas. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/03/06/chicago-builder-expands-to-cleveland/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 8, 20232 yr Why America's Biggest Cities Are Littered With Vacant Lots http://youtube.com/watch?v=gJqCakIMv6M&t=54s Edited March 8, 20232 yr by TR
March 10, 20232 yr A snippet from today's Crain's Snip..."The city of Cleveland is pulling back on economic development incentives and rethinking the ways it supports real estate and business projects. That shifting landscape — at a time of higher interest rates and labor shortages — is putting the real estate industry on edge. Developers and consultants say the city is reducing aid for projects at the wrong moment, when the central business district is still suffering from the pandemic and an uneven economy is slowing deals. During budget hearings in February, Tessa Jackson, the city's economic development director, told Cleveland City Council members that public spending on loans, grants and other incentives over the last decade-plus has not meaningfully impacted residents' lives. "When you look at historic poverty rates, historic unemployment rates, that money hasn't really moved the bar," she said during a public meeting. "You can't spend a half a billion dollars on economic development and not move the bar for anybody." Jackson is eliminating a popular loan program that supports private investments in vacant buildings and land. She's also rethinking the city's approach to tax-increment financing, a powerful tool that captures new property-tax revenues generated by development and uses them to pay off project debt. Snip... More at the link below. Warning, paywalled. Cleveland's economic development department pulls back on incentives Moderators, if this post is in the wrong thread, please move it to a more appropriate thread. Thanks!
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