I was curious what folks here thought of this article last week in Crain's. Really gloomy reporting.

 

Realty development slowdown on horizon due to rising interest rates, building costs

Quote

 

With more than 1,000 additional apartment suites bound for completion in the area this year, the market-rate apartment boom is finished for now. The hectic deal pace of the past decade is slowing. Development companies are focusing on finishing existing projects, seeking financing for other proposals, working out of town on projects that still pencil and other strategies to stay busy until the Fed cuts interest rates.
 

Although downtown Cleveland has deservedly been held up as a model for solving office woes bred by the pandemic by converting skyscrapers to apartments, the region developed that track record and expertise because its office market is weaker than many. Both office building conversions and the ground-up construction of apartment buildings in the end face new challenges because of cost run-ups.

 

 

I can’t read the full article, but the excerpt isn’t particularly shocking. I can think of 4 projects just in Detroit Shoreway that don’t have much traction because of interest rates. 
 

The excerpt isn’t saying anything about demand, which appears to remain strong for the area. 
 

And on the bright side, we should expect those rates to begin coming down in late Q2.
 

How far they need to come down before we can make these projects profitable is the big question. It will be a different story if the fed has dropped the rates and we still aren’t seeing construction in 2025. 

1 hour ago, coneflower said:

I was curious what folks here thought of this article last week in Crain's. Really gloomy reporting.

 

Realty development slowdown on horizon due to rising interest rates, building costs

 

 

It's nothing new. If anything there is a light at the end of the tunnel now. This article should have been written 6-12 months ago. I've been referring to this situation in articles since last September, starting with this:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/09/22/downtown-lakewood-project-going-through-phases/

51 minutes ago, KJP said:

It's nothing new. If anything there is a light at the end of the tunnel now. This article should have been written 6-12 months ago. I've been referring to this situation in articles since last September, starting with this:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/09/22/downtown-lakewood-project-going-through-phases/

 

That's good to know because I had seen you write about this before. The way this Crain's article makes it sound, things are getting darker.

I realize this wasn't the case recently, but isn't the federal reserve predicted to lower interest rates in the upcoming quarters?

Yes - beginning in June and settling on a long term rate at some point in 2025

Where are these sections of tower crane coming from/going to? This was the scene near downtown, south of I-90, between Orange, Broadway and extended East 9th.

On 2/21/2024 at 5:57 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I realize this wasn't the case recently, but isn't the federal reserve predicted to lower interest rates in the upcoming quarters?

 

That means less activity, now.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Where are these sections of tower crane coming from/going to? This was the scene near downtown, south of I-90, between Orange, Broadway and extended East 9th.

I think it was Sherwin Williams garage crane. 

Cleveland could land NTL franchise. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/national-thoroughbred-league-could-expand-cleveland

On 2/15/2024 at 7:21 AM, GREGinPARMA said:

Cavs thread doesn't get too much action and wasn't sure where else to share this. But come on ESPN, seriously? One of the few national TV games we get and every single shot wasn't even current/live. I know this isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but this just grinded my gears last night. Ok end of my morning cup of coffee rant.

 

PS not my photo, randomly found on Twitter/X

 

 

Catching up to this thread, but the scene from 'dogs day in cleveland' ad from Destination Cleveland also used an outdated drone shot for the closing scene.

 

Big pet peeve of mine too. Sure, in the grand scheme of things it's nothing but our skyline before SHW looks a little underwhelming but WITH it it looks solid and then some.

 

And maybe it's because all of us here are just skyline nerds but still, when city promos highlight a skyline to indicate city vibrance which creates a more positive impression there has to be more to it than just a pretty picture. So everyone, just update the damn picures to reflect who we are now, not who we were.

 

Rant over.

Squash in the land. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/squash-land-set-clevelands-playhouse-square

Pickeball Courts coming to the west side. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/multi-court-pickleball-facility-cleveland-summer-2024/95-df3bc6d2-a299-4b4e-b666-26b392832c76

 

Cleveland, other climate havens win Bloomberg bucks
By Ken Prendergast / March 12, 2024

 

Cleveland was selected today by Bloomberg Philanthropies as one of 25 U.S. cities to join Bloomberg American Sustainable Cities (BASC) and be the recipient of $200 million divided roughly equally among them. BASC is a three-year initiative designed to leverage historic levels of federal funding to incubate and implement transformative local solutions to build low-carbon, resilient, and economically thriving communities.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/12/cleveland-other-climate-havens-win-bloomberg-bucks/

Great news. Thank you Mr. Prendergast @KJP

 

"Cleveland will receive a Bloomberg Philanthropies-funded innovation team (i-team) with up to three dedicated staff persons with expertise in data analysis, insight development, human-centered design, systems thinking, and project management."  

 

Did you happen to learn whether Cleveland's designated i-team will be funded directly out of the roughly $8M coming here, or if the i-team will instead be paid seperately using other BASC resources?

Edited March 13, 20241 yr by ExPatClevGuy

@ExPatClevGuy The mayor's spokesperson responded after I posted the article to two questions I had. I will add some of this to the article...

 

1)  What is Cleveland's share of these funds?

-       Cleveland’s final allocation (TBD) from the overall $200M Bloomberg Philanthropies Sustainable Cities initiative will be utilized to fund an innovation team (“i-team”) with up to three dedicated staff.

-       The city will also receive multi-year, in-depth, customized policy and technical assistance in collaboration with community-based organizations to mobilize public, private, and philanthropic investments

 

2)  And how does Cleveland plan to use the funds?

 

-  A dedicated three -person BASC Innovation team* will work hand in hand with city cabinet leaders and city community partners using data driven and human centered design ( such as Climate Risk Vulnerability Assessment best practices from the Global Covenant of Mayors (GCOM) and Results Based Analysis) as a foundation to advance the equitable neighborhood level deployment of climate solutions to reduce emissions, build resilience and increase racial wealth equity in partnership with community based organizations and residents. 

 

The city will also engage with the dedicated policy and technical assistance resource partners in this program - such as PolicyLink - to attract additional federal and other climate action funding to Cleveland. 

 

*The first two BASC Innovation or “i-team” leadership jobs will be posted this week!

On 3/13/2024 at 7:32 AM, KJP said:

@ExPatClevGuy The mayor's spokesperson responded after I posted the article to two questions I had. I will add some of this to the article...

 

What is Cleveland's share of these funds?

-       Cleveland’s final allocation (TBD) from the overall $200M Bloomberg Philanthropies Sustainable Cities initiative will be utilized to fund an innovation team (“i-team”) with up to three dedicated staff.

-       The city will also receive multi-year, in-depth, customized policy and technical assistance in collaboration with community-based organizations to mobilize public, private, and philanthropic investments

 

2)    And how does Cleveland plan to use the funds?

 

-  A dedicated three -person BASC Innovation team* will work hand in hand with city cabinet leaders and city community partners using data driven and human centered design ( such as Climate Risk Vulnerability Assessment best practices from the Global Covenant of Mayors (GCOM) and Results Based Analysis) as a foundation to advance the equitable neighborhood level deployment of climate solutions to reduce emissions, build resilience and increase racial wealth equity in partnership with community based organizations and residents. 

 

The city will also engage with the dedicated policy and technical assistance resource partners in this program - such as PolicyLink - to attract additional federal and other climate action funding to Cleveland. 

 

*The first two BASC Innovation or “i-team” leadership jobs will be posted this week!

Mayor Bibb may have his flaws but I like that he is setting Cleveland up and positioning it to compete with the modern city. Combine that with Destination Cleveland attracting big events such as All Star Weekend(s), NFL Drafts, NCAA Final Four and now WWE Summerslam at Cleveland Browns Stadium (an underrated get), Cleveland is making moves both small and large to bring eyes to a sleeping giant.

Edited March 14, 20241 yr by MyPhoneDead

13 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Mayor Bibb may have his flaws but I like that he is setting Cleveland up and positioning it to compete with the modern city.

 

He's definitely setting the city up for the long-term, but I fear there hasn't been enough near-term wins for him to get a second term. 

 

Anything more and it probably belongs in the JB Thread in politics hah

 

 

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Mayor Bibb may have his flaws but I like that he is setting Cleveland up and positioning it to compete with the modern city. Combine that with Destination Cleveland attracting big events such as All Star Weekend(s), NFL Drafts, NCAA Final Four and now WWE Summerslam at Cleveland Browns Stadium (an underrated get), Cleveland is making moves both small and large to bring eyes to a sleeping giant.

I think Cleveland also benefits from having a fair amount of people that have blown up globally and have a passion to bring things back to Cleveland like summerslam for instance that’s only coming here because of the tie Logan Paul has to Cleveland 

4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Mayor Bibb may have his flaws but I like that he is setting Cleveland up and positioning it to compete with the modern city. Combine that with Destination Cleveland attracting big events such as All Star Weekend(s), NFL Drafts, NCAA Final Four and now WWE Summerslam at Cleveland Browns Stadium (an underrated get), Cleveland is making moves both small and large to bring eyes to a sleeping giant.

I believe it is the Cleveland Sports Commission (a separate non-profit corporation), rather than Destination Cleveland that is making the big gets.

This is clearly not a politics discussion thread.  Why would you quote from the proper thread into it?  (rhetorical question to the person who's post I deleted)

 

One downtown garage down, more to go?
By Ken Prendergast / March 24, 2024

 

It’s a tough time for Downtown Cleveland parking garages built in the 1950s and 1960s. Three of them in particular, each with just over 300 parking spaces or 966 total, are having a rough go of it. One already was demolished. Two others were closed due to their worsening condition. Many other downtown garages are of a similar age and may face financial and structural uncertainty in a weak office market.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/24/one-downtown-garage-down-more-to-go/

 

 

 

Perhaps it's finally time for the city to get real about a strategic parking solution that's a best-case scenario for residents and visitors alike.  Imagine three or four large new garages with good accessibility and integrated with RTA. All situated to promote better transit, convenience and safer travel while also helping to keep automobile traffic out of the city core.   

9 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Perhaps it's finally time for the city to get real about a strategic parking solution that's a best-case scenario for residents and visitors alike.  Imagine three or four large new garages with good accessibility and integrated with RTA. All situated to promote better transit, convenience and safer travel while also helping to keep automobile traffic out of the city core.   

Please stop, you're making my sides hurt of laughter. 

I'd like to see the parking garage next to St. John's Cathedral on E 9th go away someday. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

One downtown garage down, more to go?
By Ken Prendergast / March 24, 2024

 

It’s a tough time for Downtown Cleveland parking garages built in the 1950s and 1960s. Three of them in particular, each with just over 300 parking spaces or 966 total, are having a rough go of it. One already was demolished. Two others were closed due to their worsening condition. Many other downtown garages are of a similar age and may face financial and structural uncertainty in a weak office market.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/24/one-downtown-garage-down-more-to-go/

 

 

 

The 800 Superior Garage being demolished could be a blessing in disguise. Tearing it down and rebuilding it to support a vertical addition would also allow it to have retail/commercial spaces that front Vincent Ave. Seeing what Vincent was and what it is now is insane. It is time to reactivate our streets like this.

The Hamilton Garage should also be torn down.

 

 

Edited March 24, 20241 yr by mthompson

^how in the world is the city allowing people to park in that garage?  Question number two:  Who is stupid enough to park in that garage after viewing the collapsing floor?

a bobcat fell thru one of those floors 5 or 6 years ago

1 hour ago, Whipjacka said:

a bobcat fell thru one of those floors 5 or 6 years ago

 

Whoa. Is it too obvious to blame the tons and tons of road salt we have destroying our entire infrastructure? 

11 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

a bobcat fell thru one of those floors 5 or 6 years ago

 

For a second- just a second- I thought you meant a bobcat as in a wildcat, before I realized that of course you meant construction equipment.  Still, the mental image was great!

If parking garages have a limited lifespan, what does that mean for buildings on top of parking garages, such as Beacon?

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

If parking garages have a limited lifespan, what does that mean for buildings on top of parking garages, such as Beacon?

 

From what I've read, parking garages can last much longer if they're properly maintained, including ensuring good drainage and routinely adding sealant to prevent salt and water from getting into the concrete and the rebar. But we haven't been building parking garages for that long. I think the oldest one built in downtown Cleveland is the Rockefeller garage which was built in 1925. So we really don't know what salt/water does to buildings over a 100-plus-year timeline. Do oceanside communities qualify? Are they the same conditions?

13 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

a bobcat fell thru one of those floors 5 or 6 years ago

Bobcats can't weigh more than 40, maybe 50 pounds. I def wont be parking there lol.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

From what I've read, parking garages can last much longer if they're properly maintained, including ensuring good drainage and routinely adding sealant to prevent salt and water from getting into the concrete and the rebar. But we haven't been building parking garages for that long. I think the oldest one built in downtown Cleveland is the Rockefeller garage which was built in 1925. So we really don't know what salt/water does to buildings over a 100-plus-year timeline. Do oceanside communities qualify? Are they the same conditions?

 

I've seen cars literally pulled out of the ocean after 50 years and they still didn't look as bad as typical cars you see in Ohio. I'm not joking. 

4 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

If parking garages have a limited lifespan, what does that mean for buildings on top of parking garages, such as Beacon?

It helps life expectancy dramatically if they have a roof over top, much like any building, to shed the elements. Not many do this, and I’m not sure why. Jones Day garage does, the Beacon obviously, and of course Tower City.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/03/cleveland-city-council-approves-creation-of-tax-district-paving-way-for-bibbs-massive-downtown-redevelopment-plans.html

 

"CLEVELAND, Ohio – Cleveland City Council on Monday unanimously approved Mayor Justin Bibb’s plan to create a special downtown taxing district to pay for an overhaul of the city center and the Lake Erie and Cuyahoga River waterfronts.

The so-called “Shore-to-Core-to-Shore” tax increment financing district will allow the city to tap increases in property taxes downtown over the next 30 years."

On 3/24/2024 at 3:20 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

The 800 Superior Garage being demolished could be a blessing in disguise. Tearing it down and rebuilding it to support a vertical addition would also allow it to have retail/commercial spaces that front Vincent Ave. Seeing what Vincent was and what it is now is insane. It is time to reactivate our streets like this.

 

I lide the idea. Vincent and/or E. 6th could have been like another E. 4th Street had it remained intact. Unfortunately it would also require taking out the Fifth Third Center garage to really make this work, which would really take a major endeavour to make happen.

Edited March 26, 20241 yr by Rustbelter

On 3/25/2024 at 9:58 AM, KJP said:

 

From what I've read, parking garages can last much longer if they're properly maintained, including ensuring good drainage and routinely adding sealant to prevent salt and water from getting into the concrete and the rebar. But we haven't been building parking garages for that long. I think the oldest one built in downtown Cleveland is the Rockefeller garage which was built in 1925. So we really don't know what salt/water does to buildings over a 100-plus-year timeline. Do oceanside communities qualify? Are they the same conditions?

If salt is such a concern air entrain the concrete. Secondly, and to your point, these problems are maintenance issues. Like at Roman ruins. Concrete can certainly last that long with the proper mix and maintenance. Sadly, most owners don't maintain their garages or pay attention to the warning signs of failure. At 30-60k per space for a new garage, it's a costly mistake. It's the same paradox with anything - spend the money now or spend 10x of it later.

1 hour ago, columbus17 said:

If salt is such a concern air entrain the concrete. Secondly, and to your point, these problems are maintenance issues. Like at Roman ruins. Concrete can certainly last that long with the proper mix and maintenance. Sadly, most owners don't maintain their garages or pay attention to the warning signs of failure. At 30-60k per space for a new garage, it's a costly mistake. It's the same paradox with anything - spend the money now or spend 10x of it later.

See that attitude every day here in Cleveland Heights! 

4 hours ago, columbus17 said:

If salt is such a concern air entrain the concrete. Secondly, and to your point, these problems are maintenance issues. Like at Roman ruins. Concrete can certainly last that long with the proper mix and maintenance. Sadly, most owners don't maintain their garages or pay attention to the warning signs of failure. At 30-60k per space for a new garage, it's a costly mistake. It's the same paradox with anything - spend the money now or spend 10x of it later.

 

Maryland highway engineer told me the same thing about roads. "They don't have to fall apart as quickly as they do.  It's a question of paying for quality vs paying for miles of road."

5 hours ago, columbus17 said:

Secondly, and to your point, these problems are maintenance issues. Like at Roman ruins. Concrete can certainly last that long with the proper mix and maintenance.

A critical difference between Roman and modern concrete construction is the use of rebar. As it rusts it expands adding new internal stresses to the concrete which can cause it to crack and fail. Epoxy coated rebar is commonly used to mitigate this, but it only takes one hole in the coating for water and salt to get in.

14 hours ago, Henryefry said:

A critical difference between Roman and modern concrete construction is the use of rebar. As it rusts it expands adding new internal stresses to the concrete which can cause it to crack and fail. Epoxy coated rebar is commonly used to mitigate this, but it only takes one hole in the coating for water and salt to get in.

Also don't forget the whole gold dust thing too. 

Cross-posted from the Cleveland TOD thread

 

 

On 3/24/2024 at 6:07 PM, mthompson said:

The Hamilton Garage should also be torn down.

 

 

You inspired some exploring - they're redoing where the floors collapsed in here but phew this garage is a mess lol

 

 

 

Looking up: 

 

You'll have to take my word for it but ESPN has done the city justice this time around. Lots of great live and current skyline shots and creative shots of the city throughout the Women's Final Four broadcast this evening. I tried to grab what screenshots I could...

 

(Property of ESPN or whatever lol)

 

Also I drove through downtown about a hour before NC/USC tipoff and it was poppin. Iowa fans EVERYWHERE lol

 

Edited April 6, 20241 yr by Geowizical

13 hours ago, Geowizical said:

You'll have to take my word for it but ESPN has done the city justice this time around. Lots of great live and current skyline shots and creative shots of the city throughout the Women's Final Four broadcast this evening. I tried to grab what screenshots I could...

 

(Property of ESPN or whatever lol)

 

Also I drove through downtown about a hour before NC/USC tipoff and it was poppin. Iowa fans EVERYWHERE lol

 

Driving by BKL there was probably 40-50 private aircraft parked at Signature.   

Thanks @Geowizical. Those shots will look better once that skyline changing hotel/residential development is completed.

Building improvements are planned at 200 Public Square especially for enhancing retail