April 9, 20241 yr When l first read about this company buying the building l was concerned about their desire to maintain or, god forbid, actually try to make improvements. But after reading Ken's article it sounds like they will seek to manage it in a positive way. Talk is cheap though. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this turns out. It's such an important and highly visible building. We don't want to see it become an eyesore because of a cheap management philosophy.
April 9, 20241 yr https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/04/lakefront-trail-between-downtown-cleveland-and-east-55th-street-wins-preliminary-approval.html Great news. I know the city is bootstrapped but the shabby condition of this stretch has bothered me for years. We couldn't even make a prime running/biking path along the waterfront look presentable? Hopefully this includes clearing out the scrappy bushes and awful chain link fence - and should greatly enhance the view of the city from the east shoreway.
April 9, 20241 yr 27 minutes ago, OldEnough said: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/04/lakefront-trail-between-downtown-cleveland-and-east-55th-street-wins-preliminary-approval.html Great news. I know the city is bootstrapped but the shabby condition of this stretch has bothered me for years. We couldn't even make a prime running/biking path along the waterfront look presentable? Hopefully this includes clearing out the scrappy bushes and awful chain link fence - and should greatly enhance the view of the city from the east shoreway. Metroparks are tied to this one right? Hoping they plant some native trees, shrubs, and flowers along it. That should help make it look way better as well.
April 9, 20241 yr 23 minutes ago, JB said: Metroparks are tied to this one right? Hoping they plant some native trees, shrubs, and flowers along it. That should help make it look way better as well. That gives more confidence. Not sure why the default answer is always grass (that needs to be cut) and deciduous trees that are bare 6 months of the year. I'd like to see more evergreens, wild flowers, and hardscaping.
April 10, 20241 yr On 3/24/2024 at 2:09 PM, surfohio said: Perhaps it's finally time for the city to get real about a strategic parking solution that's a best-case scenario for residents and visitors alike. Imagine three or four large new garages with good accessibility and integrated with RTA. All situated to promote better transit, convenience and safer travel while also helping to keep automobile traffic out of the city core. I’m behind on this thread, but wanted to respond on the idea of parking garages at transit stations, which I think is what you are suggesting. The short: parking is NOT a good transit ridership generator and we should avoid excess costs to build parking at stations. We shouldn’t even be spending much on parking lots at stations; and garages are MUCH more expensive. Better transit generators: bus service (far and away the most important way to utilize rapid transit is from bus transfers), the development within walking distance (higher density multi family, offices, medical facilities), then good bike infrastructure to expand the station's catchment area. Better serving hospitals would be a huge ridership generator because of all the different reasons people need to get to hospitals. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
April 10, 20241 yr Author On the other hand, building parking garages at stations lets the rest of the parking lot and other land at stations be redeveloped. The garages can be used for park-n-ride riders during the day and residents at night. And make it paid parking so that there's a legal contract with terms and responsibilities. So as not to discourage ridership, have the parking ticket you get when you enter double as an RTA day pass or have your RTA fare media (ie weekly/monthly pass) double as a tap-and-go parking ticket. If you get a monthly parking pass (for tenants of the station-area development), that would also double as an RTA monthly pass. That might also boost evening/weekend ridership. These would probably also be applicable for meeting the city's Transportation Demand Strategies in developing at RTA stations. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 10, 20241 yr What a great idea Ken. Having the parking ticket double as an all day RTA pass. Is that an original idea or did you read about it being used in other cities? At any rate, l think it could be a great way to encourage people to use public transportation.
April 10, 20241 yr Author 13 minutes ago, cadmen said: What a great idea Ken. Having the parking ticket double as an all day RTA pass. Is that an original idea or did you read about it being used in other cities? At any rate, l think it could be a great way to encourage people to use public transportation. Don't remember. Probably read about it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 10, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: The short: parking is NOT a good transit ridership generator and we should avoid excess costs to build parking at stations. We shouldn’t even be spending much on parking lots at stations; and garages are MUCH more expensive. I don't know. Parking at Wash DC area Metro stations is jammed despite fairly decent bus feeder routes. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
April 11, 20241 yr 22 minutes ago, surfohio said: Drab = depressing. And I don't even dislike the silver/grey, it's kinda cool...I get it, it's an homage to "industrial." But do any search like "happiest cities in the world" and you'll constantly see Helsinki, Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm. I wish more builders here would emulate how those cities utilize colors in context to their cloudy northern climate. I'd take any and all studies on happiness with a grain of salt, many of those same countries have high suicide rates (at least relative to their European peers). For that matter, many gorgeous European cities utilize a more muted color pallet. I personally kind of like the more reserved color pallet of Cleveland's downtown. When the materials creating that color pallet are nice it can create a stately, or even gothic effect. I think at least some parts of Cleveland manage to create that. Not that I have anything against color, just saying that a reserved color pallet can be done well. I moved this to the random thread as I realized I wasn't really on topic for the thread. Most structures going in to Tremont aren't built with the kind of materials (stone for instance) that can justify a more stately, reserved facade. I don't have an argument against utilizing bold color in basic wood/steel framed structures.
April 11, 20241 yr On 4/10/2024 at 9:56 AM, KJP said: On the other hand, building parking garages at stations lets the rest of the parking lot and other land at stations be redeveloped. The garages can be used for park-n-ride riders during the day and residents at night. And make it paid parking so that there's a legal contract with terms and responsibilities. So as not to discourage ridership, have the parking ticket you get when you enter double as an RTA day pass or have your RTA fare media (ie weekly/monthly pass) double as a tap-and-go parking ticket. If you get a monthly parking pass (for tenants of the station-area development), that would also double as an RTA monthly pass. That might also boost evening/weekend ridership. These would probably also be applicable for meeting the city's Transportation Demand Strategies in developing at RTA stations. This is a great idea. I've said the Muni Lot should do this too, but that requires actually running the WFL. Maybe have it at $10-12 and include 2 all day passes, with additional passes for another $3-4. Have an RTA employee on site to help people who aren't familiar with the system, and to make some people feel safer knowing someone is there watching their car. This could help generate extra business around town on Guardians/Cavs/concert days. Some people would take advantage of the pass and pre/post game in the Flats, Ohio City, maybe even Little Italy. The WFL loop through Downtown or running the B-Line more often would make this even more useful. It could then easily be used for Playhouse Square events too.
April 11, 20241 yr 25 minutes ago, Ethan said: I'd take any and all studies on happiness with a grain of salt, many of those same countries have high suicide rates (at least relative to their European peers). For that matter, many gorgeous European cities utilize a more muted color pallet. I personally kind of like the more reserved color pallet of Cleveland's downtown. When the materials creating that color pallet are nice it can create a stately, or even gothic effect. I think at least some parts of Cleveland manage to create that. Not that I have anything against color, just saying that a reserved color pallet can be done well. Thanks for responding! Okay so what's the first image that comes into your mind when you hear "drab, cold war era East German building" or "depressing Soviet era architecture." Is it muted or colorful? Anyhow I completely agree a reserved color pallet can be done well. And also that the wrong colors can be worse than no color at all (don't get me started on purple lol). You would think in a city that has SHW there would be some kind of suggested color pallet specifically for Cleveland. They had one for my neighborhood in Lakewood.
April 11, 20241 yr 19 minutes ago, surfohio said: Thanks for responding! Okay so what's the first image that comes into your mind when you hear "drab, cold war era East German building" or "depressing Soviet era architecture." Is it muted or colorful? Anyhow I completely agree a reserved color pallet can be done well. And also that the wrong colors can be worse than no color at all (don't get me started on purple lol). You would think in a city that has SHW there would be some kind of suggested color pallet specifically for Cleveland. They had one for my neighborhood in Lakewood. That's a fair point, but those buildings are ugly and depressing because of brutalism more so than the color pallette. When I think of Paris or Rome, the color pallette is muted, but because the architecture is classical in style, it's beautiful. Some cities such as Tel Aviv or those on Santorini are nearly all white and gorgeous. A reserved or simple color scheme pairs well with beautiful buildings that have detail and beauty waiting to reveal itself on closer inspection. The YouTube channel "The Aesthetic City" has some phenomenal videos on reviving classical architecture in the modern era. I highly recommend basically all of their videos. I like your point about city wide color pallets. When cities look good there is some agreement on colors. And it may not be in the standard sense, some cities like Murano, or the Nordic ones you highlighted, use almost every color, but stick to a similar vibrancy of color. That can work, as can an all white city, or a stone colored city, but some form of consistency goes a long way. Bringing it back to Cleveland, I'd personally love it if the look of the Terminal Tower / Landmark building (Which is to say Art Deco) ran throughout downtown. That isn't going to happen, but it would be nice if the bedrock development treated it's new builds as a sort of Tower City District, sort of like Rockefeller Center in Manhattan. That would make me very happy.
April 11, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, Ethan said: Bringing it back to Cleveland, I'd personally love it if the look of the Terminal Tower / Landmark building (Which is to say Art Deco) ran throughout downtown. That isn't going to happen, but it would be nice if the bedrock development treated it's new builds as a sort of Tower City District, sort of like Rockefeller Center in Manhattan. That would make me very happy. I wanna say Forest City's original vision for TC expansion would've done something at least very similar to what you're suggesting. I was a big fan of the concept.
April 11, 20241 yr Does anyone have any information on the most current City of Cleveland population trends (post 2020 census; which I believe to be inaccurate) ? Would be really interesting to see neighborhood by neighborhood level population trends. What are peoples’ opinions; are we still losing population or has it finally leveled off and dare I say increasing ? Edited April 11, 20241 yr by ClevelandNative
April 12, 20241 yr Author This could go in multiple threads but I'll keep it to just two..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 12, 20241 yr The Greyhound station being repurposed is the greatest thing to happen to Stephanie Tubbs TC.
April 13, 20241 yr 17 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: The Greyhound station being repurposed is the greatest thing to happen to Stephanie Tubbs TC. Does the STJTC need improvements to actually serve more long-haul buses? -- the interior portion seems small compared to the current Greyhound station building.
April 13, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Foraker said: Does the STJTC need improvements to actually serve more long-haul buses? Not if you don't care about the comfort of your passengers!
April 14, 20241 yr Sorry if I missed the discussion but did anyone see Steve Litt’s recent article on the Greyhound station? Dreams of a Lumen 2 are likely dashed according to Craig Hassall, Playhouse Square’s president and CEO: “That’s an important point,” he said. “We’re not going to make it a façade for a block of flats or anything like that.” So any building will have to happen around the Greyhound building which will remain architecturally as-is. full article: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/04/heres-why-playhouse-squares-purchase-of-cleveland-greyhound-bus-station-is-such-a-big-deal-analysis.html?gift=1dbcaecf-4aa2-4265-86af-6751ab05d902
April 14, 20241 yr ^ I wouldn’t think that statement would preclude a set-back tower on site. It sounds like he’s just assuring the building will mostly remain intact.
April 15, 20241 yr Author I reported a source who said the same in my first article on PHS buying Greyhound. And while new housing on the bus station's parcels is probably kaput, keep an eye on neighboring parcels. 😉 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 15, 20241 yr ^Hoping for some 5-10 story buildings vs. taller along Chester/Payne, which funny enough would likely be a throwback to the past before all of the parking lots popped up.
April 15, 20241 yr Dense mixed use development > Another 30 story tower with only 1500 sq. Feet of retail with limited use surrounding it.
April 16, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: Dense mixed use development > Another 30 story tower with only 1500 sq. Feet of retail with limited use surrounding it. I was just in Nashville a couple weeks ago and noticed a recently created project I think would be perfect for Cleveland. The Fifth and Broadway development had the perfect mix of entertainment, shopping, and living. Would have loved to see something like it incorporated in the warehouse district, but I think it would be amazing over near PHS too. https://www.gensler.com/projects/fifth-broadway
April 16, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, ASPhotoman said: I was just in Nashville a couple weeks ago and noticed a recently created project I think would be perfect for Cleveland. The Fifth and Broadway development had the perfect mix of entertainment, shopping, and living. Would have loved to see something like it incorporated in the warehouse district, but I think it would be amazing over near PHS too. https://www.gensler.com/projects/fifth-broadway Oh this is absolutely amazing, this sort of development is great to have in multiple areas throughout the Downtown area, I would even like this in the west bank.
April 16, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, ASPhotoman said: I was just in Nashville a couple weeks ago and noticed a recently created project I think would be perfect for Cleveland. The Fifth and Broadway development had the perfect mix of entertainment, shopping, and living. Would have loved to see something like it incorporated in the warehouse district, but I think it would be amazing over near PHS too. https://www.gensler.com/projects/fifth-broadway I would absolutely love this. Being right next to CSU, Playhouse, Reserve Square, and the new stuff along Superior would give this part of Downtown more to do while adding to that population.
April 16, 20241 yr Yeah Nashville is booming. Seems like much of the foot-traffic downtown is from visitors too. As much as I want to see local growth I am really intrigued by out of towners livening up our sidewalks, hotels, bars and other sundry establishments. Love getting that free money.
April 16, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, cadmen said: Yeah Nashville is booming. Seems like much of the foot-traffic downtown is from visitors too. As much as I want to see local growth I am really intrigued by out of towners livening up our sidewalks, hotels, bars and other sundry establishments. Love getting that free money. At 5th/Broadway most are visitors except on game nights. Most locals don't want to go near that mayhem. As an aside, I just looked it up and was surprised to learn there are 20,000 + residents in Nashville downtown and the Gulch.
April 17, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Cleburger said: just looked it up and was surprised to learn there are 20,000 + residents in Nashville downtown and the Gulch. To Segway back to Cleveland, live music is a hell of a drug. Being able to reliably jump into a bar and find someone playing music can make up for a lot of subpar urban form. That's one thing I think Cleveland is lacking in, which is unfortunate given that (similar to Nashville) we have a music hall of fame. Nashville, Austin, and New Orleans really punch above their weight in that regard, they are mid sized cities with big city entertainment, I'd love for Cleveland to join those ranks. Getting there will likely require leadership from invested and civic partners like the Rock Hall and Playhouse Square. I'm hopeful that music is a part of the plan for the Greyhound terminal, and I got the impression it likely is, so hopefully that is starting to turn around again. The Rock Hall's expansion should help as well, hopefully after it's completed they can spread their influence into the city a bit more. Not that I think any of this is likely, but I'd love to see it!
April 17, 20241 yr Would be great - but those cities have a culture of music that supports live performances. And in the case of Nashville it’s where folks go to be discovered. Cleveland just doesn’t.
April 17, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Ethan said: Getting there will likely require leadership from invested and civic partners like the Rock Hall and Playhouse Square. I'm hopeful that music is a part of the plan for the Greyhound terminal, and I got the impression it likely is, so hopefully that is starting to turn around again. The Rock Hall's expansion should help as well, hopefully after it's completed they can spread their influence into the city a bit more. Cleveland used to have quite the cover band scene. It has slowly gone away since the 1990s. What would it take to jump start this again? Figure out how to pay musicians a decent wage for playing these gigs. Nashville musicians are pros--that's all they do.
April 19, 20241 yr Author Already being discussed in the streetscape thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 19, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said: New Superman statue going in front of the previous medical mart I think Superman should by flying in the direction of TT. Also, that way everybody is looking at side versus rear view of Superman
April 19, 20241 yr Maybe just me, but I think the whole thing is pretty hokey. I wish they'd kept the birch tree garden.
April 19, 20241 yr Maybe it'll look better in person. Bigger. And actually like Superman as opposed to Tom Thumb.
April 19, 20241 yr On 4/16/2024 at 6:31 PM, Cleburger said: Cleveland used to have quite the cover band scene. It has slowly gone away since the 1990s. What would it take to jump start this again? Figure out how to pay musicians a decent wage for playing these gigs. Nashville musicians are pros--that's all they do. There is a lot of original musical talent in NEO. There are still good shows all the time! One issue I see is that the print media that once shouldered all the publicity for the music scene has not been replaced.
April 19, 20241 yr Author 2 hours ago, gruver said: Maybe just me, but I think the whole thing is pretty hokey. I wish they'd kept the birch tree garden. Superheroes hokey?? 😮 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 22, 20241 yr Wasn’t sure where to put this but the WSJ has an interesting article about all the work Detroit (Dan Gilbert) is doing to revitalize their downtown. This section caught my eye featuring Richard Florida: Rock-bottom office rents long ago forced developers to come up with other things to build. They added casinos and sports venues and restored aging theaters. That made downtown less office-dependent, an advantage in the age of remote work. “An allegedly smart urbanist would have probably said don’t do that—billions of dollars on stadiums and casinos,” Florida said. “It sounds odd to say this, but in a way their downtown looks more like a Miami or Las Vegas.” This got me thinking about our region and the debates about a new football stadium, waterfront, etc. What Florida is describing sounds like what we did in the 90s with Tower City, which we all know wasn’t a sustainable solution to creating a vibrant downtown. On the flip side, there are things that really have benefited downtown like protecting our theaters, hosting sports, casino (maybe I’ve never been), nightlife. Seems like the question isn’t whether we should invest public resources to generate activity but more that we should prioritize what is most effective. Edited April 22, 20241 yr by coneflower
April 22, 20241 yr Taking the long view here. Getting Progressive out of some of their large suburban office park in the short-term - would hopefully give us a chance to see them grow and need more space in the future (ideally downtown) https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/04/progressive-is-officially-putting-its-former-main-headquarters-on-the-market.html
April 22, 20241 yr They do have two locations downtown albeit small, one for their Level20 division and another for their data warehouse near masthead that said and Ken already mentioned it campus 2 is pretty large and can be developed further if needed it. Plus we have to realize the impact for AI for a company like progressive is huge as most of their employees are CSRs Edited April 22, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes
April 24, 20241 yr Cleveland got mentioned during Brightline’s event in Vegas today as a place where it makes sense to build another high speed rail “There a lot of city pairs that are attractive so the too far to drive, too short to fly with two big population centers that’s the secret sauce…so we look around the country there’s very obvious ones…in the Midwest even like you look at places from you know Cleveland to Columbus” starts talking about other opportunities at about 6:14 also semi worth noting he is also part owner of the Bucks like the Haslems which this would obviously benefit
April 25, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Cleveland got mentioned during Brightline’s event in Vegas today as a place where it makes sense to build another high speed rail “There a lot of city pairs that are attractive so the too far to drive, too short to fly with two big population centers that’s the secret sauce…so we look around the country there’s very obvious ones…in the Midwest even like you look at places from you know Cleveland to Columbus” starts talking about other opportunities at about 6:14 also semi worth noting he is also part owner of the Bucks like the Haslems which this would obviously benefit Cleveland to Columbus would be amazing but I'd love Cleveland to Chicago.
April 25, 20241 yr 14 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Cleveland got mentioned during Brightline’s event in Vegas today as a place where it makes sense to build another high speed rail “There a lot of city pairs that are attractive so the too far to drive, too short to fly with two big population centers that’s the secret sauce…so we look around the country there’s very obvious ones…in the Midwest even like you look at places from you know Cleveland to Columbus” starts talking about other opportunities at about 6:14 also semi worth noting he is also part owner of the Bucks like the Haslems which this would obviously benefit My guess is if Ohio does get "on this train" Cincinnati would also be included, it's just very obvious to connect the 3 at high speed. Also, love that they did a great drone shot of Columbus when this was mentioned :)
May 6, 20241 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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