While not technically Circle Square, CMA is planning on improving the greenspace around the circle, adjacent to the Circle Square development.

This is from the Planning Commission Agenda for 11/5, but I don't think they got to this part before the meeting ended. See https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/schedule.php under the presentations section, November 5, pages 336-349

 

And on pages 325-335, you can see the plans for the Circle Square public parking garage.

I may be wrong but I think right now they are only seeking final approval on Fine Arts Parcel A, not the whole scheme.  Also, I viewed the presentation before Landmarks and I think the above conceptual rendering of Parcel A is the original plan and it has been modified to a certain extent due to lack of funding.

At first I thought were we losing the last remnants of the Circle (old trolley turnaround)...and making it a "square." :)

 

But now I see section D actually is creating more of a circular shape than exists presently. 

Hot damn! I like it and the wider mediums are a good look too. There's nothing like driving/walking on a street with a green canopy reaching from one side to the other. Come on Forest City, you can do it.

4 hours ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

At first I thought were we losing the last remnants of the Circle (old trolley turnaround)...and making it a "square." :)

 

 

An historical clarification -- there was never a trolley/streetcar turnaround here. The tracks went through the circle and split at the circle, with one line going up Cedar Hill and the other continuing on Euclid. The roadway for Euclid was later routed through the circle next to the tracks. 

 

 

The continuing rise of Artisan...

(12-3-21)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The transformation of Stokes / E 107th will be very impressive once Circle Square finishes up. Truly (re)building Cleveland's 2nd downtown. 

Thorough exploration!  Really appreciate the Wade Lagoon perspectives.  

Thanks for the pics.  Really great.  Totally agree with your comments and hate to beat a dead horse but somebody please light a fire under Peter Rubin.  Library Lofts groundbreaking was suppose to be in July and last report they still don't have financing wrapped up.  Unfortunately delay here delays other portions of the project because the current MKL library branch cannot be demolished until the new library is built.

Not Peter. Steve Rubin. Not sure who is to blame for the slow start. MDP or CPL?

2 variances were granted this morning at the Board of Zoning Appeals for the Hessler Street project and I believe this is the final city approval needed in order to move project forward.  NIMBYS were out in full force.  Let's see what they do next.  Possible appeal to Common Pleas Court.  Who knows.

The Artisan will soon be nearly as tall as it crane. The first of hopefully six towers in the Circle Square development. Photo by Phil Power.

I must say I love the way University Circle is developing a skyline of 7-20 story buildings. I know we start heavy breathing on this site when we think about supertalls and skyscrapers, but I really love the actual feel of walking in an area like what University Circle is becoming. The midrise buildings create a very dense feel and yet don't block out the sun and create shadows for 90% of the day. There's something so comfortable and yet energetic about it.

10 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I must say I love the way University Circle is developing a skyline of 7-20 story buildings. I know we start heavy breathing on this site when we think about supertalls and skyscrapers, but I really love the actual feel of walking in an area like what University Circle is becoming. The midrise buildings create a very dense feel and yet don't block out the sun and create shadows for 90% of the day. There's something so comfortable and yet energetic about it.

 

I noticed this even more from the new vantage points along the OC.   Would love to see this spread towards the rapid stations along the corridor.  

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

don't block out the sun

Terdolph has entered the chat

Growing next to One UC from Cedar-University platform (12-14-21)

The Artisan is continuing to rise and make its presence known.

On 11/9/2021 at 7:39 PM, tykaps said:

While not technically Circle Square, CMA is planning on improving the greenspace around the circle, adjacent to the Circle Square development.

This is from the Planning Commission Agenda for 11/5, but I don't think they got to this part before the meeting ended. See https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/schedule.php under the presentations section, November 5, pages 336-349

 

And on pages 325-335, you can see the plans for the Circle Square public parking garage.

I can't find this agenda anymore, but do you know if the plan is to keep all of the existing trees for these improvements? 

 

 

Also, does anyone if the circle square developments will preserve any of the existing trees in the circle area? Just eyeballing it, it looks like there are several healthy mature trees that could (and should) be saved.

 

 

Different view from yesterday:

City Club had mentioned a possible UC apartment building.  Might they do the later phase Circle Square apartment next to the Artisan?

🤷‍♂️

 

1 hour ago, urb-a-saurus said:

City Club had mentioned a possible UC apartment building.  Might they do the later phase Circle Square apartment next to the Artisan?

 

that would be nice if city club jumps in here too for a ressy building, wouldn't it? they do have more than one building in detroit, so maybe. we'll see. can you post where you saw they were thinking about uc?

1 hour ago, urb-a-saurus said:

City Club had mentioned a possible UC apartment building.  Might they do the later phase Circle Square apartment next to the Artisan?

I don't know why they would do this unless Midwest Development Partners was giving up on completing the whole Circle Square project on its own. There are plenty of other properties in the area that City Club could be eye-ing.

I just wish Library Lofts would finally break ground.  I am sure I am just frustrated (given they were suppose to break ground last July) but this is starting to worry me.

54 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

that would be nice if city club jumps in here too for a ressy building, wouldn't it? they do have more than one building in detroit, so maybe. we'll see. can you post where you saw they were thinking about uc?

 

UC is one option they're considering for a second building, but probably the most likely

 

https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/10/city-club-apartments-breaks-ground-for-its-first-cleveland-project/

 

18 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I just wish Library Lofts would finally break ground.  I am sure I am just frustrated (given they were suppose to break ground last July) but this is starting to worry me.

 

I'm told they are way over budget. Like many developers, they are trying to find more revenue rather than cut costs. Thus, the TMUD. They are facing a potential time crunch if they don't get the TMUD. The Cleveland Public Library must expend a certain amount of bond money for their new/improved libraries by a certain date or they risk losing it.

 

 

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

that would be nice if city club jumps in here too for a ressy building, wouldn't it? they do have more than one building in detroit, so maybe. we'll see. can you post where you saw they were thinking about uc?

 

They are said to be looking for an additional site in Cleveland.  I have also heard they were looking downtown.  Im sure either place would be welcome. 

Edited January 18, 20223 yr by willyboy

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

UC is one option they're considering for a second building, but probably the most likely

 

https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/10/city-club-apartments-breaks-ground-for-its-first-cleveland-project/

 

 

I'm told they are way over budget. Like many developers, they are trying to find more revenue rather than cut costs. Thus, the TMUD. They are facing a potential time crunch if they don't get the TMUD. The Cleveland Public Library must expend a certain amount of bond money for their new/improved libraries by a certain date or they risk losing it.

Wow.  This is even more problematic than I thought.

City Club's Peter Burgoyne told me at the groundbreaking that they are not looking at downtown for a second building.

On 1/18/2022 at 10:09 AM, KJP said:

The Cleveland Public Library must expend a certain amount of bond money for their new/improved libraries by a certain date or they risk losing it.

 

I'm a huge fan of libraries, but the size of the proposed library and the fact that it is proposed as two floors tall seems unsustainable to me (just my opinion).

 

While most new libraries are being cut down to a "best sellers" section, a kids section, and a computer lab, this monster has a second floor sky walk and needlessly complex curtainwall.

 

that circle in the middle of the multipurpose area is a grand skylight dome.... i dont know why we're building the great library of Alexandria here...

 

yes, the library is beautiful and inspiring

 

but if I had to guess, i'd bet that the developer eventually pressures the library to significantly reduce size and better utilize a smaller space on the lower two levels (assuming the developer is committed to the library concept at all) as the apartments above are already relatively compact and simple. will that mean $10M in lost bond's... ??? who knows - maybe that's a good thing. maybe they could better use their funding. there is already a Hough library, and this one isn't walking distance for kids in the Fairfax neighborhood, maybe just some students at john hay. This feels like just a showpiece for people driving to the Cleveland clinic (which i fully support lol, but not if it's not economically feasible) .

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited January 19, 20223 yr by MrR

So the shortfall is with the library, not the residential? I thought the library was paid for -- ie: had funding already identified for this MLK Branch?

Didn't a tax levy recently pass specifically for library renovation and new construction? The funding for this branch would come from that pot.

I'm not saying the library doesn't have funding to build their space.

 

I'm saying that the owner committed to a concept (apartment units over a library) that inherently increased the cost per unit and limited other uses/revenue. They relied on improper cost estimates and now they have no way to hit their ROI numbers without altering the initial concept - which I'd assume includes alterations to the library component that (to me) looks excessive.

 

 

Edited January 19, 20223 yr by MrR

What do you mean unprepared? It's not like the concept was sprung on them after the fact. Apartments over a new library branch was a condition of transferring the current MLK branch property to them. The design competition for the new branch was years ago.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/architecture/2018/06/so-il_kurtz_wins_competition_t.html

 

It's more likely Midwest Development Partners is slow walking the Library Lofts because they put all their eggs in The Artisan. Not many developers have the financing to build two large projects at the same time.

47 minutes ago, Mendo said:

It's not like the concept was sprung on them after the fact. Apartments over a new library branch was a condition of transferring the current MLK branch property to them.

 

Correct, they were unprepared for the high bids they received for their concept. They took on the project with unrealistic expectations and now have sticker shock and the options to pony up more cash or revisit design.

 

They have a different general contractor and design team who's been ready to go for months. If the numbers work you have lenders lining up at your door begging to invest with you. When your numbers don't make sense then even the financing you thought you had in place can't be released. 

1 hour ago, MrR said:

I'm not saying the library doesn't have funding to build their space.

 

I'm saying that the owner committed to a concept (apartment units over a library) that inherently increased the cost per unit and limited other uses/revenue. They relied on improper cost estimates and now they have no way to hit their ROI numbers without altering the initial concept - which I'd assume includes alterations to the library component that (to me) looks excessive.

 

 

Are you currently reviewing their pro forma lol

I thought the point of them building over the library was to save on costs? The library branch is paid for with the levy money. Since the library branch is going to be including foundation work, etc, that will also be shared with the apartments above, it causes the remainder of the project to cost less on a per unit basis than it would otherwise if they would be paying for an entire building foundation. Sounds like the price overage is coming from increased costs in supplies/labor that is effecting every project. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions that the library branch is the cause of it.

4 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

I thought the point of them building over the library was to save on costs? 

 

 

I don't know if there was cost savings. Midwest's intent was to pay over $5+ million dollars toward construction of the library for permission to develop the apartments above. And if you recall there was even some drama over the design team selection, JKurtz originally ignored the apartment component anyways.  {edit: MASS/LDA team who was not selected missed it}

 

https://www.cleveland.com/architecture/2018/06/so-il_kurtz_wins_competition_t.html 

 

Building on top of a 30' concrete structure has huge labor productivity impact (like a 3-6% adder right off the bat) plus other rigging and hoist cost increases and tying in utilities & drains up an extra 30' up in the air. A stand alone library would have had bar joists and a roof, where now you need structural steel and a poured deck - more expensive than starting at grade.

 

I hate to see it get this far and have a budget gap (regardless of what the reasons may be), but ...

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 20223 yr by MrR

Kurtz didn’t ignore the apartments. The article clearly states the MASS/LDA team ignored it.

16 minutes ago, w28th said:

Kurtz didn’t ignore the apartments. The article clearly states the MASS/LDA team ignored it.

👍

On 1/19/2022 at 6:59 PM, MrR said:

Building on top of a 30' concrete structure has huge labor productivity impact (like a 3-6% adder right off the bat) plus other rigging and hoist cost increases and tying in utilities & drains up an extra 30' up in the air. A stand alone library would have had bar joists and a roof, where now you need structural steel and a poured deck - more expensive than starting at grade.

 

 

I never understood why this library and apt bldg were to be built as two different projects. Why not juts build a residential bldg and plan (and design) for the first two floors--which may have higher ceilings--to be a library, just as an office bldg plans for a lobby and retail on its first floor? The library could have a 100-year lease in the bldg or if CPL must own it, a joint ownership of the structure could be created where one party owns floors 1-2 and other owns 3 to whatever.

Another less common angle

 

 

As excited as l am to see this building going up its offset by the continual delay with the library/apartment building. What are we missing here? As others have mentioned, it seems like this one should already be under construction - you have government money to augment private dollars plus a tenant ready to move in. The whole thing isn't all that big plus with the expansion of the Clinic nearby there would appear to be a demand for housing. 

 

Obviously the holdup is financing and the entire project is comprised of multiple buildings but you would think if any one of them would be held up it wouldn't be this one. 

 

The longer this takes the more concerned l am. If the library/apartment building doesn't happen what does it mean for the others? The entire development was an incredible shot in the arm for UC. It has the look of development you see in much bigger cities - shiny finishes, density and height. Fingers crossed that whatever the problem is it gets resolved.

(2-10-22)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eastbound on the RedLine

 

2/11

On 1/19/2022 at 12:02 PM, bumsquare said:

Are you currently reviewing their pro forma lol

 

I've heard the CPL stepped up to cover some more of the costs, which could help push the project forward without design changes. hopefully we'll see some action soon

Wow this baby is moving quick! Takes me back to seeing the Lumen rise!

Yes! I know it's not my money (unless you count the couple of bucks l kick in for the library levy) but l think this development could hinge on the library/apartment building getting done. I doubt the buildings on the next block east get built if the only structure finished is the one being built now. 

 

This is a megaproject that links the Clinic with UC and the Cultural Garden's. Without the library l'm afraid all we end up with is a fizzle.

Yeah, this probably qualifies. Thanks for the heads-up @MrR!

 

 

22 hours ago, cadmen said:

This is a megaproject that links the Clinic with UC and the Cultural Garden's. Without the library l'm afraid all we end up with is a fizzle.

 

If there is a hole in the financing, it would be nice if the Clinic would step in to fill the gap somehow.

 

Library Lofts returns from being overdue

By Ken Prendergast / February 18, 2022

 

Partners involved in the planned 11-story Library Lofts building in Cleveland’s University Circle neighborhood are finalizing a revised agreement that will allow the project to break ground as early as next month.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/02/18/library-lofts-returns-from-being-overdue/