August 31, 20204 yr 43 minutes ago, OldEnough said: those of us old enough to remember Username checks out ? I agree. Skylines are nice to look at from a distance but street level is what really matters in the end.
August 31, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, OldEnough said: While we all want a spectacular building in this spot, those of us old enough to remember what it was like before the old, very average structure was demolished know what an impact adding ANYTHING will have on the overall atmosphere of the square. Having that empty lot - and lack of a "fourth wall" - totally ruined the sense of place at the central hub of downtown. I remember those bldgs as well---1 and 33 Public Square. However at that time, in terms of tall buildings, only the Terminal Tower stood on the square. Now we have a 45+ story building on each of the three quadrants. So to balance this, something substantial (at least 40 stories) needs to be on the NW quadrant as well; simply buidling "anything" won't do anymore.
September 1, 20204 yr 10 hours ago, Pleco said: Great height and density!! The only thing I'd change is the middle building, somethings fishy about that angle... I don't think it would anchor the Weston lots well....
September 1, 20204 yr NOW I get why there were marine mammals on the Superblock! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 1, 20204 yr request for geo or somebody to fit the baku flame towers on the lots. maybe you could do a lit up night version of them too? lol.
September 8, 20204 yr My 5 year old and I worked on a new SW HQ massing. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
September 8, 20204 yr Author 4 hours ago, Firenze98 said: My 5 year old and I worked on a new SW HQ massing. Sherwin Williams should be able to match those paint colors, right? ?
September 9, 20204 yr Imagine if we really did get a building like that though that was full of color? It would be bold and risky, but if it was appropriate for any company, it would be a paint or design firm. I'd take a colorful building or a modern, sleek glass one (like the Hilton) over the Key Tower/BP-type Cleveland style.
September 9, 20204 yr ^Key Tower is a handsome building and I’m happy to have it in Cleveland. Also, there is no “Cleveland style” of building. Key Tower and the BP building would fit into the vernacular of any city; it just so happens that they are in Cleveland.
September 9, 20204 yr ^I like Key too. I just meant the brown/grey look. Some color/glass on the Cleveland streets would be welcome.
September 9, 20204 yr When I took this shot the other day from Ohio City, I let myself imagine the new SW HQ and thought, “it would be great if it had that blue glass look” just to add some contrast to the light brown/grey toned skyline. I don’t think I’d want full-on LEGO but some color would be nice! Edited September 9, 20204 yr by CleveFan
September 9, 20204 yr Did someone say color? For inspiration.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20204 yr Author SWHQ Renderings Update Thanks to everyone for your response to my latest SW mockups, and thanks to @KJP as well for entrusting my "orange buildings" to appear in your superb blogposts - it means a lot to me that you all enjoy them and I'm glad I can contribute to your vision of the city as it comes to life around us. Plus, I never thought my Sketchup "skills" would one day be of use in a setting like this, but I'm glad I can help in any way I can. Sometimes, we can't do much as posters on a forum - but I like to think our voices and thoughts can have a little more sway than we might realize. That being said, I feel like you all deserve something more than just my surely repetitive "orange buildings", so this weekend I decided to challenge myself to take things up a notch with respect to the renderings. In playing around with my massing for KJP's most recent article, I thought I would go further than "orange" and create a visualization for you all that is a little more realistic than previous and closer in-line with what a real architect firm or construction company might put out there; one that gives a better idea about potential of the design and functionality of a project as well as the *realistic* goals we should set for future projects like this (finger-crossed this is only the beginning), and more more importantly, something more refined and tangible than orange blocks standing next to Key Tower. As such, I refined my most recent design for KJP and created (with the help of my graphic design skills), something which is - in my opinion - a skyscraper not only enjoyable to look at in concept, but that fits well with the current skyline, is uniquely "Cleveland", and (hint hint) takes some design ideas from a certain landmark of the city (see if you can guess haha). I created a fact sheet of sorts that highlights the breakdown of the building floor-by-floor, gives dimensions, heights, and in general a more detailed (yet still hypothetical) understanding of the building. Below is my first go at such a concept. I hope you all enjoy it - while I was able to knock this out this weekend this definitely takes a lot more time to put together than the "orange buildings" so while it may be less frequent, I hope the slightly more in-depth attention to detail makes up for that. Please let me know what y'all think - if you like this idea, suggestions, any fundamental problems with the design (but not like "the building will literally fall over dude"), etc. As always - I am NOT a professional architect (I have never designed a fully-functional building before), but sometimes rudimentary is alright ? and the goal of these are to look pretty, of course ? Sorry if that was a lot... nonetheless, please enjoy - and have a great evening! Edited September 29, 20204 yr by Geowizical
September 29, 20204 yr 13 hours ago, Geowizical said: SWHQ Renderings Update Thanks to everyone for your response to my latest SW mockups, and thanks to @KJP as well for entrusting my "orange buildings" to appear in your superb blogposts - it means a lot to me that you all enjoy them and I'm glad I can contribute to your vision of the city as it comes to life around us. Plus, I never thought my Sketchup "skills" would one day be of use in a setting like this, but I'm glad I can help in any way I can. Sometimes, we can't do much as posters on a forum - but I like to think our voices and thoughts can have a little more sway than we might realize. That being said, I feel like you all deserve something more than just my surely repetitive "orange buildings", so this weekend I decided to challenge myself to take things up a notch with respect to the renderings. In playing around with my massing for KJP's most recent article, I thought I would go further than "orange" and create a visualization for you all that is a little more realistic than previous and closer in-line with what a real architect firm or construction company might put out there; one that gives a better idea about potential of the design and functionality of a project as well as the *realistic* goals we should set for future projects like this (finger-crossed this is only the beginning), and more more importantly, something more refined and tangible than orange blocks standing next to Key Tower. As such, I refined my most recent design for KJP and created (with the help of my graphic design skills), something which is - in my opinion - a skyscraper not only enjoyable to look at in concept, but that fits well with the current skyline, is uniquely "Cleveland", and (hint hint) takes some design ideas from a certain landmark of the city (see if you can guess haha). I created a fact sheet of sorts that highlights the breakdown of the building floor-by-floor, gives dimensions, heights, and in general a more detailed (yet still hypothetical) understanding of the building. Below is my first go at such a concept. I hope you all enjoy it - while I was able to knock this out this weekend this definitely takes a lot more time to put together than the "orange buildings" so while it may be less frequent, I hope the slightly more in-depth attention to detail makes up for that. Please let me know what y'all think - if you like this idea, suggestions, any fundamental problems with the design (but not like "the building will literally fall over dude"), etc. As always - I am NOT a professional architect (I have never designed a fully-functional building before), but sometimes rudimentary is alright ? and the goal of these are to look pretty, of course ? Sorry if that was a lot... nonetheless, please enjoy - and have a great evening! Awesome. A skyscraper homage to the Guardians would be an absolute DREAM. They could get some cool building-side art or projections going and mimic the statues damn near Gundham-style lol. Edited September 29, 20204 yr by ASP1984
September 29, 20204 yr OMGosh! Subtle, almost too literal, but not. Pure genius of inspiration. Two thumbs up. What a dynamite concept. ?? Edited September 29, 20204 yr by ExPatClevGuy
September 29, 20204 yr 31 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said: OMGosh! Subtle, almost too literal, but not. Pure genius of inspiration. Two thumbs up. What a dynamite concept. ?? A Guardians homage would be a fantastic excuse to promote a bit of art-deco revival akin to these proposed skyscrapers in NYC. Edited September 29, 20204 yr by ASP1984
September 29, 20204 yr Love it! The Guardian shape goes well with the other three on the square too. I'd love to see some more Art Deco too. It's by far my favorite style, and would be so fitting for the 20s.
October 20, 20204 yr The SHW HQ thread has been discussing the Devon Energy Center in Oklahoma City recently, so I decided to throw it on the Jacobs lot as well as a shortened version across the street. My Hilton model went missing unfortunately but I'm learning to cope. Very happy to see 200 PS peaking out from behind when viewed from Edgewater.
October 20, 20204 yr Might be a little too tall (depending on the chosen ceiling heights, rooftop architecture, etc), but we shall see. Nice job. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 20, 20204 yr Great work! I love all the different angles! Would anyone be willing to do all those angles but with a 650ft building? I would love to see the impact on the skyline at that height.
October 20, 20204 yr Looking forward to the color that the City Club apts will bring to Euclid. There's some color now, but this rendering really brings home how conservative that stretch of road is. We don't need something crazy but just break it up a bit. I wonder how that rust colored Beacon would've looked- not complaining about what it looks like now, but 🤷♂️ lol
October 20, 20204 yr Glad you guys like them, I'll try to put a 650' tower there by tonight. My biggest takeaways were focused on how the lot interacts with the Big 3 in eliminating the gaps that start about 300' up, while also hoping it doesn't completely block one of them from key angles. That's why I'm incredibly pleased with the Edgewater Beach CLE script sign view. Additionally, it's always bothered me how popular the view from the old viaduct is, whether it's an establishing shot on ESPN or in someones twitter banner, as it hides the height and density of E. 9th. This tower helps tremendously in pulling the downtown core towards that view (I also hope you noticed my snap is hovering over where The Viaduct should rise). When looking at the shots above, a 600'-700' tower would rise above the start of the tapering, but below the top inverted triangles. I gotta say, even though the occupiable floors might not stretch the building as high as shown there, it just feels right to have this building relate directly to Key's stature, and an impressive crown would be perfect for that. Pickard Chilton's 1180 Peachtree in Atlanta utilizes a 120' crown JUST to get it to 657', so I'm hopeful we'll see something similar.
October 20, 20204 yr Nice job. I really like how the space is filled in from the view from Northcoast Harbor. The skyline looks "full".
October 20, 20204 yr @Pleco Just so it's clear - I think based on the response here, the answer to "should I post my renderings" in this thread is always 100% an emphatic YES - thank you for the effort and time you put into these. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
October 21, 20204 yr 7 hours ago, Pleco said: Additionally, it's always bothered me how popular the view from the old viaduct is, whether it's an establishing shot on ESPN or in someones twitter banner, as it hides the height and density of E. 9th. I thought I was the only one who didn't like that shot haha. The riverside looked like an eyesore.
October 21, 20204 yr I think we know even less about what the shorter building on the Superblock will look like, but wow does it make a big difference from that view down Euclid. It's almost more impactful than the actual tower from that angle. If we get a 620' tower (instead of a 800' tower) that results in more development on the Superblock now is that really a loss?
October 21, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said: I think we know even less about what the shorter building on the Superblock will look like, but wow does it make a big difference from that view down Euclid. It's almost more impactful than the actual tower from that angle. If we get a 620' tower (instead of a 800' tower) that results in more development on the Superblock now is that really a loss? Not necessarily. SHW could keep 1 million square feet on the Jacobs lot and have it be a 560-foot tower or an 800-foot tower depending on average floorplate sizes and average floor heights. Consider..... 40 stories with 25,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 560 feet tall 15 feet -- 600 feet tall 16 feet -- 640 feet tall 45 stories with 22,222-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 630 feet tall 15 feet -- 675 feet tall 16 feet -- 720 feet tall 50 stories with 20,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 700 feet tall 15 feet -- 750 feet tall 16 feet -- 800 feet tall EDIT: I just realized that I posted this in the Random Visualizations thread. This should probably go into the SHW HQ thread. Edited October 21, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 20204 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: Not necessarily. SHW could keep 1 million square feet on the Jacobs lot and have it be a 560-foot tower or an 800-foot tower depending on average floorplate sizes and average floor heights. Consider..... 40 stories with 25,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 560 feet tall 15 feet -- 600 feet tall 16 feet -- 640 feet tall 45 stories with 22,222-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 630 feet tall 15 feet -- 675 feet tall 16 feet -- 720 feet tall 50 stories with 20,000-SF average floorplates and floor heights of: 14 feet -- 700 feet tall 15 feet -- 750 feet tall 16 feet -- 800 feet tall EDIT: I just realized that I posted this in the Random Visualizations thread. This should probably go into the SHW HQ thread. Geez Louise 16' !!! I can't imagine it would be greater than (nor less than) 14'-8" the next residential high rise in Cleveland will be 9'-8" deck to deck :-0 Edited October 21, 20204 yr by MrR
October 21, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, MrR said: Geez Louise 16' !!! I can't imagine it would be greater than (nor less than) 14'-8" the next residential high rise in Cleveland will be 9'-8" deck to deck :-0 Residential floor heights are much lower than office floor heights. Average floor heights are 16.5 feet in Fifth Third Tower, 15.7 feet in Ernst & Young Tower, 15.5 feet in Key Tower and 14 feet proposed in One nuCLEus Place. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Residential floor heights are much lower than office floor heights. Average floor heights are 16.5 feet in Fifth Third Tower, 15.7 feet in Ernst & Young Tower, 15.5 feet in Key Tower and 14 feet proposed in One nuCLEus Place. I just looked back at the elevations. E&Y tower is 13’-6”... I worked on it in 2011...the lower level parking levels are even less, and the hotel floors are 9’-8”. edit: also I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’ve been reading your blog for years and so I guess I’m by default a huge fan! Lol Edited October 21, 20204 yr by MrR
October 22, 20204 yr I think what it comes down to is whether SHW is going to do a crown like a 53 or key or a spire like the Great American in Cincy or nothing at all like 200 public square. KJP’s estimates might not the actual story height but what the actual height will be of the building divided by the number of stories in which case 15ft or 16ft is not at all out of the question.
October 22, 20204 yr 14 hours ago, MrR said: I just looked back at the elevations. E&Y tower is 13’-6”... I worked on it in 2011...the lower level parking levels are even less, and the hotel floors are 9’-8”. edit: also I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’ve been reading your blog for years and so I guess I’m by default a huge fan! Lol I took the 330-foot height of the E&Y office tower and divided it by 21 stories = 15.7 feet. Parking is subterranean and not part of the building's height. Hotel is a separate building. Thanks for reading the blog! 🙂 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 22, 20204 yr 19 hours ago, MrR said: Geez Louise 16' !!! I can't imagine it would be greater than (nor less than) 14'-8" the next residential high rise in Cleveland will be 9'-8" deck to deck :-0 Just to put in a few fairly recent towers... Salesforce Tower in SF. is 970 feet to the roof(1070 total)and 60 floors so that would be 16.16 per floor. Devon Energy in OKC. is 844 feet with 52 floors for 16.23 feet per floor. The Comcast Center in Philly..974 feet to top with 58 floors for 16.8 feet per floor. 13 feet seems to be the very minimum for new towers and none of this is including possible spires or crowns either(and hopefully the SW tower will have both.
October 22, 20204 yr New Class A office towers are typically in the 14'-16' floor-to-floor range these days. Older buildings could get away with 12'-14' for a variety of reasons, but I would be very surprised if the Sherwin Williams tower is less than 15' floor-to-floor. I'd imagine something hovering around 16' is what we'll likely get here. Even for a fairly conservative corporation, this is still a headquarters tower. It's going to have a dramatic lobby, more public facing levels with higher ceilings (such as those where high level meetings are held, etc.). Even with a fairly low floor count, this is going to be a large building simply by way of being a modern Class A office tower..
October 22, 20204 yr yeah the ceiling heights tend to run larger these days. just for comparsions i poked around -- it could be off or not consistent, but this is what i found --- the norman foster hearst tower, built in 2004, averages 4m or 13'2" ceilings. the new one manhattan west is 13'8" ceiling heights. 50 hy runs 15'2" to 17'8". one vanderbilt has a whopping 24' ceilings. the hy spiral will have "soaring" ceiling heights. and lastly, 1 wtc has a 50' lobby and here is what is available there now: >OPPORTUNITIES FROM 9,000-155,000 RSF >PREBUILT OPPORTUNITIES FROM 5,000-25,000 RSF COLUMN-FREE, CORE-TO-WINDOW DEPTH RANGES FROM 35 TO 45 FT 13' 4" SLAB-TO-SLAB HEIGHTS 9' OF FLOOR-TO-CEILING GLASS DOUBLE-HEIGHT SKY LOBBY FOR ACCESS TO UPPER FLOORS https://www.onewtc.com/leasing Edited October 22, 20204 yr by mrnyc
October 22, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, jmicha said: New Class A office towers are typically in the 14'-16' floor-to-floor range these days. Older buildings could get away with 12'-14' for a variety of reasons, but I would be very surprised if the Sherwin Williams tower is less than 15' floor-to-floor. I'd imagine something hovering around 16' is what we'll likely get here. Even for a fairly conservative corporation, this is still a headquarters tower. It's going to have a dramatic lobby, more public facing levels with higher ceilings (such as those where high level meetings are held, etc.). Even with a fairly low floor count, this is going to be a large building simply by way of being a modern Class A office tower.. I think I miss understood that you're doing an approximate calculation. cuyahoga county HQ is 14'-0" swagelock is 15'-0" all newer hospital buildings in clevleand all have 15'-0" above the first floor gensler did PNC's headquarters in pittsburgh 7 years ago... which could be similar size to sherwin williams... at the top is a beautiful 2 story atrium and then we had a 3 story mechanical floor... again giving you 15' per floor. salesforce is 901' to top occupied floor which is the 61st ohana garden level - 100% worth a visit if you have a chance - (again 15'/floor) plus 70' mechanical and 100' of screening 16' floor to floor would probably be the first thing to get a big red X through it when the cost came in could SWHQ have that 30-170' of mechanical and atrium space on top? plus spire... possible edit: yes, mrnyc, i also see that the herst is around 13'... id have to dig deeper for one vanderbilt edit 2: "Office floors yield floor-to-ceiling slab heights ranging from 14.5 feet to 24 feet, column-free floor plates, and 360-degree views through floor-to-ceiling windows." probably lots of fancy shared conference room floors on the lower levels and cafeteria space to entice renters. i haven't been wandering out during the pandemic, but next time i'm in nyc i'll have to sneak in... https://newyorkyimby.com/2020/09/one-vanderbilt-officially-opens-in-midtown-east.html Edited October 22, 20204 yr by MrR
October 22, 20204 yr 5 minutes ago, MrR said: I think I miss understood that you're doing an approximate calculation. cuyahoga county HQ is 14'-0" swagelock is 15'-0" all newer hospital buildings in clevleand all have 15'-0" above the first floor gensler did PNC's headquarters in pittsburgh 7 years ago... will be similar size to sherwin williams... at the top is a beautiful 2 story atrium and then we had a 3 story mechanical floor... again giving you 15' per floor. salesforce is 901' to top occupied floor which is the 61st ohana garden level - 100% worth a visit if you have a chance - (again 15'/floor) plus 70' mechanical and 100' of screening 16' floor to floor would probably be the first thing to get a big red X through it when the cost came in could SWHQ have that 30-170' of mechanical and atrium space on top? plus spire... possible Great info "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 22, 20204 yr yes and if you want to save more money, you can put the mechanicals below like the hearst tower. lots of ways to shrink a tower lol, but then again you could also grow it by making it mixed use with a hotel or chicago it up higher with parking. we needn't worry though --- i cannot imagine the time they are having with this now, this is the fun part!
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