4 hours ago, MrR said:

 

 

could SWHQ have that 30-170' of mechanical and atrium space on top? plus spire... possible

 

edit 2: "Office floors yield floor-to-ceiling slab heights ranging from 14.5 feet to 24 feet, column-free floor plates, and 360-degree views through floor-to-ceiling windows."

 

 

https://newyorkyimby.com/2020/09/one-vanderbilt-officially-opens-in-midtown-east.html

Thanks @MrRfor that info and the great link on One Vanderbilt - which I can see from my window, by the way. From a number of miles, one gets the impression there are two Empire State Buildings which is ironic since we heard that SW could “rival Key Tower” - which hypothetically could create a similar great  “double vision effect” for Cleveland. I had referenced “One Vandy” previously when other posters were projecting their favorite  towers onto Public Square because of its graduated tapered top and spire. I think a similar look would evoke both Key and the Terminal Tower in a post-modern sense. That kind of direction would likely add more verticality and an upward energy to the new HQ tower.  And I guess this post would be appropriate in the SW thread but I responded here....

Edited October 22, 20204 yr by CleveFan

Here is 1180 Peachtree, just 1 foot shorter than 200 Public Square, on the Jacobs lot. I realize now I shouldn't have left the mini OKC but c'est la vie.

 

The symmetry of that is beautiful.  

^^ I had a couple of trips to Atlanta while that one was being built. It’s in Midtown and I stayed just a few blocks away. It’s really a beautiful building. 

From KJP’s brand new article, the Sherwin skyscraper has an “East coast/NY style of architecture”. Anyone have any ideas what this could mean? Hit us up with some nice photos! 😉

Just for fun would someone be willing to do the massing of a 650ft tower on Jacob’s lot with a 400ft tower on the West 6/Superior?

Since it’s looking like SHW will probably have a second tower, and now the TMUD bill passed(although I know nothings sure, I’m guessing nuCLEus will get picked if they apply- since they helped creat the bill).
Would any of you design gurus be able to put something together showing what downtown would look like with the below?

 

-800ft SHW HQ on Jacob’s lot

-525ft SHW building on W6th/Superior

-650ft nuCLEus building

 

Thanks in advance!

1 hour ago, NR said:

Since it’s looking like SHW will probably have a second tower, and now the TMUD bill passed(although I know nothings sure, I’m guessing nuCLEus will get picked if they apply- since they helped creat the bill).
Would any of you design gurus be able to put something together showing what downtown would look like with the below?

 

-800ft SHW HQ on Jacob’s lot

-525ft SHW building on W6th/Superior

-650ft nuCLEus building

 

Thanks in advance!

While I love optimism, I think it's probably more likely to be around 600-700ft, 350-400ft, and 350 ft.

2 hours ago, NR said:

Since it’s looking like SHW will probably have a second tower, and now the TMUD bill passed(although I know nothings sure, I’m guessing nuCLEus will get picked if they apply- since they helped creat the bill).
Would any of you design gurus be able to put something together showing what downtown would look like with the below?

 

-800ft SHW HQ on Jacob’s lot

-525ft SHW building on W6th/Superior

-650ft nuCLEus building

 

Thanks in advance!

 

30 minutes ago, tykaps said:

While I love optimism, I think it's probably more likely to be around 600-700ft, 350-400ft, and 350 ft.

From previous renderings... Playhouse Square to Ohio City and everything in between...

Happy New Year to all!

13 hours ago, Geowizical said:

 

From previous renderings... Playhouse Square to Ohio City and everything in between...

Happy New Year to all!

Happy New Year everyone.  Awesome visual.  Do we know enough at this point to add a new Courthouse Tower?  Good luck in 2021!!

1 hour ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said:

Happy New Year everyone.  Awesome visual.  Do we know enough at this point to add a new Courthouse Tower?  Good luck in 2021!!

 

See the Justice Center thread. Most recent info I've heard is that it won't be a tall building ( https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/08/clevelands-next-whale-may-eat-more-land.html ). But that really limits the locations you can put it downtown. I'm speculating that might land at the Riverview phase of Tower City Center.

 

On 1/1/2021 at 12:28 AM, tykaps said:

While I love optimism, I think it's probably more likely to be around 600-700ft, 350-400ft, and 350 ft.

I’m basing it off the below:

 

-SHW HQ: speculation is 45-55 floors if I remember correctly. So choosing the middle 50fls X 15ft ceilings = 750ft, plus any crown/spire and taller lobby ceilings or mechanical floor on top = 800ft.

 

-SHW W6th/Superior: speculation is that they are drilling to bedrock in what could be prep for the use of caissons and a building of more than 30fls.  If that’s so, why would they spend the money to go to bedrock and use caissons only to build a 400ft building?  To my knowledge The Lumen was built on a slab without caissons and their building is like 396ft.  If SHW is only going to build a 350-400ft building, why the bedrock/caissons, why not just do a slab like the others?  Or just build a shorter wider building on the lots. However, if they’re doing the bedrock/caissons, why build right at the 30/31 story minimum for said caissons?   To me, if they’re spending the money going to bedrock and using caissons, it makes sense to build no less than 35 floors.  So 35 floors X 15ft ceilings = 525ft.

 

-nuCLEus: this is solely, purely just optimism lol.  But after all this waiting, and the TMUD bill finally passing, if the nuCLeus does get selected as one of the projects for a grant... I’d think/hope Stark would do everything he can to build his original dream tower.  It also great that the interest rates are low in regards to financing, and also that a lot of businesses are looking to move downtown more than when this project started.  Here’s hoping :)

 

No matter what, the towers that are coming to downtown CLE are going to transform our city and skyline... and I’m greatly looking forward to it!!! 

Edited January 2, 20214 yr by NR

Lumen was built with Caissons and slab.  

^I believe both the Hilton and the FEB tower were as well. It would be nice to have a 500 footer on that site though. 

8 hours ago, NR said:

I’m basing it off the below:

 

-SHW HQ: speculation is 45-55 floors if I remember correctly. So choosing the middle 50fls X 15ft ceilings = 750ft, plus any crown/spire and taller lobby ceilings or mechanical floor on top = 800ft.

 

-SHW W6th/Superior: speculation is that they are drilling to bedrock in what could be prep for the use of caissons and a building of more than 30fls.  If that’s so, why would they spend the money to go to bedrock and use caissons only to build a 400ft building?  To my knowledge The Lumen was built on a slab without caissons and their building is like 396ft.  If SHW is only going to build a 350-400ft building, why the bedrock/caissons, why not just do a slab like the others?  Or just build a shorter wider building on the lots. However, if they’re doing the bedrock/caissons, why build right at the 30/31 story minimum for said caissons?   To me, if they’re spending the money going to bedrock and using caissons, it makes sense to build no less than 35 floors.  So 35 floors X 15ft ceilings = 525ft.

 

-nuCLEus: this is solely, purely just optimism lol.  But after all this waiting, and the TMUD bill finally passing, if the nuCLeus does get selected as one of the projects for a grant... I’d think/hope Stark would do everything he can to build his original dream tower.  It also great that the interest rates are low in regards to financing, and also that a lot of businesses are looking to move downtown more than when this project started.  Here’s hoping :)

 

No matter what, the towers that are coming to downtown CLE are going to transform our city and skyline... and I’m greatly looking forward to it!!! 

 

I really don't know how tall SHW base HQ building (interesting that SHW calls it their "base" building, suggesting multiple buildings, which of course it would have to be considering the acreage they've acquired). But it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is going to challenge the Big 3 on Public Square. Consider these average floor plates of some of the more recent 'scrapers downtown:

E&Y: 27K
Key: 23K
5th 3rd: 19K 

 

With floors heights of 15-17 feet (let's average at 16 ft), it translates to:

 

37 floors, 592 feet

43 floors, 688 feet

52 floors, 832 feet

The second building will probably be smaller, perhaps a lot smaller. BTW, it appeared as though it would be sited next to the west side of West 3rd Street with corners touching Superior and West 3rd, plus Frankfort and West 3rd -- it *seemed* as if the drilling was concentrated closer to Frankfort than it was to Superior, but that's what was observed and not all drilling was observed. Smaller is a relative term. At 350 feet high, it probably won't need caissons although if a 10- to 15-level parking garage is included, 1,000-1,500 parked cars will be pretty heavy. So if you have a 100- to 150-foot-tall parking garage topped by a 220- to 250-foot tall hotel and/or training center, you're talking about a 320- to 400-foot-tall building. Either way, it's probably going to need caissons due to the weight.

 

I'll discuss the nuCLEus project in that thread.

 

1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^I believe both the Hilton and the FEB tower were as well. It would be nice to have a 500 footer on that site though. 

 

I think FEB was built on a slab. FEB is only 330 feet high.

For boasting purposes not to mention visual impact , I’m hoping -and I think it’s very probable -that the “base building” will exceed 665’ - besting Cincinnati ‘s vaunted Great American Tower. If that happens, Cleveland will once again have the 3 tallest buildings  in the state and 4 of the top 5. 

Regardless, I do think SHW will make the skyline appear more dense. Cleve wide streets make the buildings seem so far apart from each other when viewing the skyline from most angles.

I’d like to ask the great @Geowizical  ( or one of our other talented artists) if we could have  a massing of the latest SW HQ in the skyline - the one with a 25 and a 20 story building.  Just so we can readjust our paradigms.  Thank you 🙏🏻 if that can be done. 

45 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I’d like to ask the great @Geowizical  ( or one of our other talented artists) if we could have  a massing of the latest SW HQ in the skyline - the one with a 25 and a 20 story building.  Just so we can readjust our paradigms.  Thank you 🙏🏻 if that can be done. 

 

I asked him for one as well, which he sent to me yesterday for an article I'm working on. Stay tuned!! And it won't be 25 stories..... 😉

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I asked him for one as well, which he sent to me yesterday for an article I'm working on. Stay tuned!! And it won't be 25 stories..... 😉

27?

40 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

27?

 

Yup

.....and you had a chance to raise our hopes again...

I got this at about 500' probably a little tall but hey why not.

 

Edited January 10, 20214 yr by freethink
Edit

Thanks @freethinkI don’t have the skills to do it, but would love to see the latest version of the SW HQ ad per NEOtrans on Jan 15th - a roughly 600’ single glass box tower set back from the Jacobs lot with a 4 story “museum” building on PS. Thank you, to any of our skilled rendering artists that can do that! 

👍

Thanks, Pleco!

The box shape is still hideous, but strangely, the location doesn’t look bad at all! There’s some real symmetry with the big 3. Particularly in that third photo! Holy crap, they might be on to something here.

 

You have singlehandedly changed my mind. Judging from these angles the HQ should absolutely be on this lot!

Edited January 18, 20214 yr by Silent Matt

The box honestly doesn’t look bad for whatever reason. I feel at least a little better about it. Hoping it has at least some lights at the top to make it look at little different at night.

To me, 200 Public Square is a wide building when viewed straight on and in this massing , if accurate in dimension, the SW Tower may be even wider.  It’s a bit of a harsh contrast to the elegant Terminal Tower. I wish the floor plates were more square shaped than rectangular  given that bulk.  Would love to see a terraced, tapered effect as it rises. That type of design could  preclude difficult office space dimensions while creating a more interesting and sophisticated  look.   I love that, at latest rumor it’s gotten higher  (maybe) - but its sheer bulk makes it appear a bit imposing.  When you think of the highest buildings in most big city skylines, they usually have a more slender or tapered appearance. 

Edited January 19, 20214 yr by CleveFan
Improved language

I've seen references to a BOK Tower as a reference point for SHW's new headquarters.  Thinking about this over the weekend, the tower sounds a lot like Target's headquarters to me (which is 33 stories and has a smaller tower adjacent to it):

 

I was wondering if anyone has the ability to plop the SWH Tower massing into this iconic shot used all the time

 

oops hold on I shoulda just thrown it in there after

 

Something kinda like this

 

Edited January 19, 20214 yr by Pleco

Oof! Further evidence that the rectangle box design is sh*te!

 

Wow, the forum censors out the word sh*te?!

Edited January 19, 20214 yr by Silent Matt

Ugh.  It definitely needs to be tapered a bit towards the top.

15 hours ago, Pleco said:

 

 

Something kinda like this

 

 

I'd sadly consider a design this drab to be a mar on one of the most photographed views of Cleveland. Fingers crossed we get something more than a rectangle. 

Edited January 19, 20214 yr by ASP1984

Given what we know about Sherwin-Williams HQ possible design, and since I think most all of us are in agreement we’d like for the campus to incorporate multiple colors, I hope Pickard Chilton and SW will draw some inspiration from Saffron Square in Croydon, UK.

 

1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Given what we know about Sherwin-Williams HQ possible design, and since I think most all of us are in agreement we’d like for the campus to incorporate multiple colors, I hope Pickard Chilton and SW will draw some inspiration from Saffron Square in Croydon, UK.

 

 

Or even just from a SW paint chip display. 

 

 

On 1/10/2021 at 12:16 AM, freethink said:

I got this at about 500' probably a little tall but hey why not.

 

 

 

oh wow -- now this would just be freakin stunning.

 

and its not even the height, its the style and the badazz open base and angled siting.

 

excellent vision and work here!

 

unfortunately, i have zero confidence pickard could ever do anything this stunning.

 

but ... we have not opened the box and herr shroedinger's cat is both dead and alive at the moment, so we keep up hope!

 

18 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

 

 

This building looks like a heat map. Since it's residential, do all of the sexy people live on floors 20-32? 🤣

I present: The Prettiest "Glass Box" I Could Come Up With

 

490ft "floating" tower on top of massive cylindrical stylized supports, complete with office lobby base and attached parking wrapped in paint swatch-inspired coverings (for those of you into that kind of stuff). Enjoy! Hopefully this helps manifest some of the hopes/concerns/concepts put forth in the past couple of days for your consideration. As always I'm happy to answer any questions.

 

I wouldn't be upset if SW went this direction. Let's support our Browns, and show Pittsburgh that sports team colors have a place in our city too lol. 

 

Now you're talking. Too bad we aren't getting anything close to that.

 

if we get bridgework (and or superior viaduct), circle square, and the cleveland clinic pathology building is a tower....  I no longer care if SW is super tall...

Don't count on The Viaduct building.... The others look promising however.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Don't count on The Viaduct building.... The others look promising however.

Disappointing to hear about The Viaduct. It was my favorite project and it seemed like they had their act together. 

8 hours ago, KJP said:

Don't count on The Viaduct building.... The others look promising however.

Ugh.  I was afraid of that with the lack of any noise since last fall.  And like stated above, it was one of my favorite projects.  I guess inexperience, lack of deep pockets and financing were always an issue.  With all the work they have done so far maybe they can sell their "work product" to a developer who could get it done, although I know something like that rarely happens.

 

@KJP do you know if the same developers apartment building near Battery Park is also in trouble?  I believe that was a nice project as well.

On 1/20/2021 at 4:43 PM, Dougal said:

 

Or even just from a SW paint chip display. 

 

 

 

I love this idea!  I'm not sure how to implement it exactly, but the rhythmic grid and colors, it seems like it should be able to be adapted to a curtain wall of a skyscraper somehow.

First I'm reading about the Viaduct building no-go. Ugh! That was by far my favorite (potential) new build. It had everything. Balcony's galore, nice height, great location and outstanding views of downtown. kjp always says don't get emotionally involved until a building at least breaks ground. I know Ken, I know. But a fella can still dream can't he?

4 hours ago, X said:

 

I love this idea!  I'm not sure how to implement it exactly, but the rhythmic grid and colors, it seems like it should be able to be adapted to a curtain wall of a skyscraper somehow.

Should be easy to do. Color shifting paint coatings already exist. Residential tower in Cincy has a colorshift as you move.

Could created a more "color chip" effect by using multiple saller panels or tiles.  

Speaking of tiles, doesn't Mercy Hospitals in Cincy area and others, incorporate tiles that essentially creates this effect at most of their recently built projects?

So... its hard to get good skyline shots of UC given, well, the current lack of skyline... 

Also, there are so many buildings in UC that I didn't go down the rabbit hole of modeling/adding in every single one (although that may happen eventually) this time around, so pardon the gaps. Anyways, I just massed out the Artisan and Library Lofts (no detailed recreation, sorry) minus the office portion of the project and here's how it looks. This thing should be around 270 ft by my estimates, which is what you see here. If I have more free time in the future, I'll try and do a more faithful detailed recreation based on the blowups in the schematics (and yes, I realize I didn't put in the Pathogen Tower - I have no clue where to start with that). See Circle Square thread for recent developments!

 

Looking South

Looking East

Looking North

Aerial

From the steps of the art museum (a little fish-eyed as to get Severance Hall in the shot)

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 20214 yr by Geowizical

^Looks great, @Geowizical! I look forward to the Gehry building being added. Good luck with that one!