Posted July 12, 20204 yr SUNDAY, JULY 12, 2020 Rockefeller Building to start new life with housing, offices According to several sources, a development partnership is acquiring the Rockefeller Building, 614 W. Superior Ave., in downtown Cleveland and will redevelop the historic office building with micro-unit apartments, offices, retail and parking. This is one of the first of potentially several major spin-off real estate development projects resulting from Sherwin-Williams' decision to build its new consolidated headquarters in downtown Cleveland. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/07/rockefeller-building-to-start-new-life.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20204 yr Author I'd been sitting on the above story for weeks waiting for news that the title had transferred as well as some additional details. But when I saw MJ's story this morning, there was no sense in sitting on it anymore.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20204 yr 33 minutes ago, KJP said: I'd been sitting on the above story for weeks waiting for news that the title had transferred as well as some additional details. But when I saw MJ's story this morning, there was no sense in sitting on it anymore.... It’s great to have @mjarboe back on the beat! This jumped out for me: ”Preliminary plans for the apartments show nearly 300 micro-units, ranging from 235 to 333 square feet. The remainder would be studios and one- and two-bedroom units, topping out at 726 square feet. Monthly rents could range from just over $900 to just shy of $1,400.” 235 sq ft! I’m trying to envision living in a space that’s 24’ x 10’. I get micro apartments for downtown living in general, but that’s basically the size of a hotel room. Definitely calls for a Murphy bed. That said, this looks like a great project and I hope they can make it work! When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
July 12, 20204 yr Love the microapartments. Does the $900/mo guestimated starting rent apply to the 235 sq ft units?? That sounds like kind of ambitious pricing. There are apartments downtown right now 2.5x that size for about the same price.
July 12, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said: It’s great to have @mjarboe back on the beat! This jumped out for me: ”Preliminary plans for the apartments show nearly 300 micro-units, ranging from 235 to 333 square feet. The remainder would be studios and one- and two-bedroom units, topping out at 726 square feet. Monthly rents could range from just over $900 to just shy of $1,400.” 235 sq ft! I’m trying to envision living in a space that’s 24’ x 10’. I get micro apartments for downtown living in general, but that’s basically the size of a hotel room. Definitely calls for a Murphy bed. That said, this looks like a great project and I hope they can make it work! Many hotel rooms are larger and are at least 300sqft. Honestly don’t know how you fit all the kitchen appliances, a few cabinets, bed, and bath in that space. Edited July 12, 20204 yr by cle_guy90
July 12, 20204 yr Author Michele may have put the project at risk by reporting it now, before the closing. She was urged to not publish the story for that reason. The parties involved are extremely angry. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20204 yr I lived in a "microapartment" of that size when I was at CSU- they just didn't call it that. It was the old Downtown YMCA, which had just been converted to "student oriented" housing by combining the old 7x14 flophouse rooms into 14x14 (some larger) units. It had a small kitchenette and bathroom that took half the space, then the other half of the space was a bedroom/living room. Bunk bed with a small couch underneath, a writing desk, a small dresser, and a small closet filled it out. It wasn't too bad at that time, but I wouldn't want to live that small now. But for a student, intern, someone staying short term and not bringing anything but their essentials- it should be fine for those folks. They should do 3 or 6 month leases.
July 12, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Michele may have put the project at risk by reporting it now, before the closing. She was urged to not publish the story for that reason. The parties involved are extremely angry. So she knowingly put the project at risk? Why? Did you think they were bluffing or just wanted to beat any one else (yourself included)?
July 12, 20204 yr Author 1 hour ago, Pugu said: So she knowingly put the project at risk? Why? Did you think they were bluffing or just wanted to beat any one else (yourself included)? I don't know why she posted it now. I haven't spoken to her. I wrote my article three weeks ago and left some blanks to fill in so I could just add some final details and then post it. The title should have transferred late last month but didn't due to some complications I won't get into. So I sat on the story because of those complications, hoping they'd get cleared up. They haven't yet but were getting close. The current property owners are in litigation regarding the site and I was informed that any publicity could cause one of the parties to ask the court for a temporary restraining order regarding the sale. So when I saw MJ's article this morning at 6 a.m., there was no reason for me to sit on my article any more. So I removed the blanks and posted it. Yes, I love getting the scoop. But I never post an article if I know it's going to put a project in jeopardy. I'm sitting on several more stories until I get the green light to share them. I hope the green light comes. If it doesn't, then there's no story to share. To clarify: I don't think she would have submitted the article for publication if she knew that it could cause the demise of the project. Michele is a terrific journalist and a responsible writer. I know that, as she was continuing her research on Friday, she was told to not write the article right now but I don't know if she was told why. I doubt she was told because she made no mention of it in her article. And I will mention it publicly only after the title transfers and the legal dispute is concluded. Edited July 12, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20204 yr Looks like the case is probably Cuyahoga No. CV-20-930466 Seese, et al.. vs. Ambrosia Enterprises, LLC, et al. It's a quiet title action. There already was a TRO for fourteen days back in March. We should know this week whether Michelle's article has screwed anything up.
July 12, 20204 yr Got excited cause I love that building but now reading it could be in jeopardy, now I’m just bummed lol
July 12, 20204 yr Author 5 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: Got excited cause I love that building but now reading it could be in jeopardy, now I’m just bummed lol I think it will be OK. It's gotten through a lot of bumps along the way. This is just another. As Michele said in her article, this building has managed to avoid all of the historic building rehabs downtown. And I said in my article, it's right across the street from the Sherwin-Williams HQ site so the pressure to rehab The Rock into something more productive has arrived in its front yard. It can't avoid its redevelopment forever. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20204 yr Any project on that flimsy of grounds is unlikely to happen anyway (or likely get delayed from ongoing litigation). Publishing an article won't change that. Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Mendo
July 13, 20204 yr Author With the pandemic, everything is delicate. The building was already on "fragile" gound. Edited July 13, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 20204 yr 18 hours ago, KJP said: SUNDAY, JULY 12, 2020 Rockefeller Building to start new life with housing, offices According to several sources, a development partnership is acquiring the Rockefeller Building, 614 W. Superior Ave., in downtown Cleveland and will redevelop the historic office building with micro-unit apartments, offices, retail and parking. This is one of the first of potentially several major spin-off real estate development projects resulting from Sherwin-Williams' decision to build its new consolidated headquarters in downtown Cleveland. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/07/rockefeller-building-to-start-new-life.html THANKS Ken for another GREAT ARTICLE! And with more than an acre of surface parking lot and a 95 year old five story parking garage behind the Rockefeller Building. IT'S only a matter of time before the new owners demos the old garage and replace it with a combination of a new mixed use office & residential tower with a new parking garage to provide parking for both buildings! Edited July 13, 20204 yr by Larry1962 More details and typos
July 13, 20204 yr 5 hours ago, Larry1962 said: THANKS Ken for another GREAT ARTICLE! And with more than an acre of surface parking lot and a 95 year old five story parking garage behind the Rockefeller Building. IT'S only a matter of time before the new owners demos the old garage and replace it with a combination of a new mixed use office & residential tower with a new parking garage to provide parking for both buildings! I always thought that garage was ugly and stuck out like a sore thumb
July 13, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, Growth Mindset said: I always thought that garage was ugly and stuck out like a sore thumb I like it for some reason.I like sitting at the window table right across the street. To me, it fits in from that POV. ok, ill admit the windows are pretty bad. Edited July 13, 20204 yr by viscomi adding photo
July 13, 20204 yr Author @Larry1962 The garage can't be demolished because it's in an historic district. The buyers had a really cool proposal for demolishing it and replacing it with an amazing tenant lined up. But because of its location in a historic landmark district, the CDC and the city said the buyers had to find a way to repurpose the garage. So the prospective tenant lost interest and apparently walked away. And that wasn't the worst of it. The pandemic has already significantly reduced the scope of this project to what is being reported now. BTW, it's still going to be a cool project. If you want to see a comp, check out 28Grand in Detroit... https://www.28granddetroit.com/ Edited July 13, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 20204 yr 5 minutes ago, KJP said: @Larry1962 The garage can't be demolished because it's in an historic district. The buyers had a really cool proposal for demolishing it and replacing it with an amazing tenant lined up. But because of its location in a historic landmark district, the CDC and the city said the buyers had to find a way to repurpose the garage. So the prospective tenant lost interest and apparently walked away. And that wasn't the worst of it. The pandemic has already significantly reduced the scope of this project to what is being reported now. BTW, it's still going to be a cool project. If you want to see a comp, check out 28Grand in Detroit... https://www.28granddetroit.com/ What kind of tenant did they have before they walked away
July 13, 20204 yr Author 19 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: What kind of tenant did they have before they walked away A transformative one. A retailer. Because the retailer wants to be downtown, it will probably find a new site, perhaps in the SHW HQ development or maybe somewhere else downtown. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 20204 yr 10 minutes ago, KJP said: A transformative one. A retailer. Because the retailer wants to be downtown, it will probably find a new site, perhaps in the SHW HQ development or maybe somewhere else downtown. That is intriguing. I just hope this thread doesn't get torpedoed by mention of the "R" word...
July 13, 20204 yr The CDC will block the demolition of a stupid garage that adds nothing to the historic district and block a retailer. It sounds like this CDC is run by morons.
July 13, 20204 yr ^It is quite possible that it is more complicated than that. If the garage is in the historic district, or even associated with the Rockefeller Building itself (e.g. functionally related in historic terms), demolition could impede the potential for historic tax credits. A good CDC would want to make sure a developer kept those on the table.
July 13, 20204 yr Author The developers are seeking federal historic tax credits (not highly competitive state credits). As you know, the federal credits are non-competitive but require a five-year review and the potential pull-back of credits if the building is altered in some way that doesn't meet federal standards. So I doubt the developers want to risk losing them by demolishing the garage unless it is deemed structurally unsound. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 20204 yr ^Was that building always a garage? Has the makings of a warehouse at one time. Definitely a cool little building but looks to need significant masonry restoration.
July 13, 20204 yr I'm not sure how that garage building would affect tax credits on the Rockefeller Building. They are 2 separate structures.
July 13, 20204 yr ^The garage may not affect the building's ability to get tax credits. However, if their construction was originally related (like the garage being purposely built for Rockefeller), they could be considered functionally related and that could be an issue if demolition was pursued. Additionally, if the developer planned to expand the Rockefeller Building onto the lot following demolition, that could also present an issue.
July 13, 20204 yr Author Even so, the CDCs and the Landmarks Commission generally don't allow buildings to be torn down in historic districts unless they've been structurally damaged by fire or are so badly decayed that they're considered dangerous. I was interested in buying a fixer-upper in Hingetown for $120,000 last year but the repairs to the house, let alone the renovations would have added $200,000+ to the cost. I asked OCI if it could be demolished for a new house and they said no, because it's in an historic district. So the house still sits there, until someone with means and who loves the house buys it and fixes it up -- or it decays further and must be demolished anyway. And that's probably what would happen to the Rockefeller Building garage. BTW, it may look like a warehouse, but it was a very early design for a garage. Just like the first airports were designed to look like train stations because that's what architects knew when designing transportation centers, I suspect the same thing held true with early garages. They were designed to look like sturdy warehouses because that's what architects knew when it came to storing heavy machinery. This garage was built in 1925. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 14, 20204 yr Could something be done like the Garfield school on Detroit in Lakewood where they braced the exterior walls and rebuilt everything around it?
August 11, 20204 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 27, 20204 yr Author BOOM THURSDAY, AUGUST 27, 2020 Rockefeller Building sold, new chapter begins Title to the Rockefeller Building in downtown Cleveland transferred today to a partnership that seeks to redevelop the historic edifice with housing, offices and ground-floor retail. The 17-story building is located at 614 W. Superior Ave., across West 6th Street from the planned site of the new Sherwin-Williams headquarters. This purchase is the first what may be several spin-off investments directly resulting from the massive headquarters project. Although all of the financing isn't yet in place to proceed with a renovation, the sale puts the building in the hands of motivated owners who have deeper pockets. The owners are a partnership of Realty Dynamics Equity Partners, LLC of Akron, OH and Wolfe Investments, LLC of Plano, TX. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/08/rockefeller-building-sold-new-chapter.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 20204 yr It's great to hear that the owners will be sinking some money into facade restoration of such a grand, old building like the Rockefeller. Frankly, it is never struck as a property that needed all that much TLC (compared to say, the May Company Building that KJP references in his article). It's already in pretty good shape considering its age. But if there's room for improvement, I can't wait to see the final product! Also, I'm happy to hear news of more planned micro-apartments potentially after learning that they're also likely to make up a big portion of City Club. That's when you know an urban residential market is hot--developers betting that people are willing to live in a shoebox in order to be close to the action of the urban core. "The city is your living room," and all that. Downtown CLE has a come a long way in a short period of time.
August 28, 20204 yr I am very happy that while the parking lot will remain for now to serve as a staging area, they are considering other uses for it in the future. Would love to see that another gap filled in!
August 28, 20204 yr Agreed that the outside seems to be in pretty decent shape, especially compared to other recent rehabs. My only complaint was the perpetual massive spider webs everywhere. Looking forward to those finally being cleaned off. The inside was a dated mess though. I was in there a couple years ago and it was what I imagined a run down building in the 70s was like. The elevator ride was pretty scary.
August 28, 20204 yr Author 2 hours ago, Go CLE said: Would like to see Sherwin Williams break ground soon! They haven't even gone before Planning Commission yet. But that's a topic for another thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, PoshSteve said: Agreed that the outside seems to be in pretty decent shape, especially compared to other recent rehabs. My only complaint was the perpetual massive spider webs everywhere. Looking forward to those finally being cleaned off. The inside was a dated mess though. I was in there a couple years ago and it was what I imagined a run down building in the 70s was like. The elevator ride was pretty scary. Back around 1970, my Dad worked at an ad agency in the Hippodrome Building (same architects too, Knox & Elliott) and it hadn't been renovated since the '30s. I can only imagine what a building built in 1917 and receiving only partial/selective renovations would look like based on the sad state of the Hipp. Ugh.
August 29, 20204 yr The fantastic news is that all of the buildings in and around Public Square and the SW HQ, including this one and 55 PS (except maybe Metzenbaum CH) will be beautifully restored and in pristine condition in time for the SW ribbon-cutting ceremony. Edited August 29, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder
August 29, 20204 yr 4 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said: The fantastic news is that all of the buildings in and around Public Square and the SW HQ, including this one and 55 PS (except maybe Metzenbaum CH) will be beautifully restored and in pristine condition in time for the SW ribbon-cutting ceremony. Did you mean 75 PS instead of 55 PS
August 29, 20204 yr Author 49 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: ^ Am I mistaken? Isn't 55 PS also being renovated? No. Optima had a plan to renovate it but they seem to have their hands full of other matters now. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 31, 20204 yr On 8/29/2020 at 10:02 AM, Frmr CLEder said: The fantastic news is that all of the buildings in and around Public Square and the SW HQ, including this one and 55 PS (except maybe Metzenbaum CH) will be beautifully restored and in pristine condition in time for the SW ribbon-cutting ceremony. I just wish the casino could be relocated elsewhere.
September 1, 20204 yr Geis Cos. to redevelop historic Rockefeller Building in downtown Cleveland Geis Development Co. is planning to give new life to the historic Rockefeller Building in downtown Cleveland as a mixed-use apartment building. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2020/09/01/geis-cos-to-redevelop-rockefeller-building.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 2, 20204 yr ha -- as we suspected. so this is independent of the sw project, no? or are they connected in some way?
September 2, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, mrnyc said: ha -- as we suspected. so this is independent of the sw project, no? or are they connected in some way? Completely independent. But I'm sure knowing that you will be having 3,500+ SHW employees next door in a few years really helps... And I'm still hearing that a couple of developers are really interested in developing both the Stark parking lot on West 9th & St. Clair Avenue and also the Weston lot on the north side of St. Clair Avenue & West 3rd Street as either apartments and or offices. Especially since by the time they are built the virus should be under control and the SHW Towers should be open! Edited September 2, 20204 yr by Larry1962 More details
September 2, 20204 yr Author 5 hours ago, mrnyc said: ha -- as we suspected. so this is independent of the sw project, no? or are they connected in some way? In the article that broke the story about the sale going through, a member of the development team was quoted about how SHW's HQ location decisions influenced this investment.... https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/08/rockefeller-building-sold-new-chapter.html?m=1 But the bigger one is still coming -- maybe. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 2, 20204 yr 5 hours ago, KJP said: But the bigger one is still coming -- maybe. ? Would this be in regards to the "Unidentified Skyscraper of 30+ stories" you referenced recently? If so, that would be fantastic. To have another crater filled downtown is good, but to have it filled with a Skyscraper is next level!! Adding something like that to the warehouse district would do wonders, and help expand the skyline by filling in the gap. hopefully we'll have to change the name from the warehouse district to the tower district!
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