Columbus, Ohio, one of the largest cities in the United States without a form of rail based public transit.  I have a proposal to fix it, in the form of a Cheap, Fast, Safe, and Economical solution, called Monorail. The system would follow the High Street Corridor for most of its route from Rickenbacker Airport to Polaris Shopping Center.  The line length would be approximately 34.5 miles in length with the highest cost estimated at about 1.4 Billion USD.  The system would have connections to routes that feed into it as well.  
since the system is elevated, it is much faster than street traffic, and unlike light rail, it is much safer since it doesn’t mix with street and pedestrian traffic.  Stations would be equipped with elevators for wheelchair access as well.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by Julian

What's it called?

8 hours ago, Pugu said:

What's it called?

monorail.  A suspended monorail to be exact.

By gum it'll put Columbus on the map.

14 hours ago, Julian said:

Columbus, Ohio, one of the largest cities in the United States without a form of rail based public transit.  I have a proposal to fix it, in the form of a Cheap, Fast, Safe, and Economical solution, called Monorail. The system would follow the High Street Corridor for most of its route from Rickenbacker Airport to Polaris Shopping Center.  The line length would be approximately 34.5 miles in length with the highest cost estimated at about 1.4 Billion USD.  The system would have connections to routes that feed into it as well.  
since the system is elevated, it is much faster than street traffic, and unlike light rail, it is much safer since it doesn’t mix with street and pedestrian traffic.  Stations would be equipped with elevators for wheelchair access as well.

All the way along High? lol. Clintonville and most definitely Worthington would kill it or die trying.  German Village would be raising hell too even though it would go through the Brewery District. 

 

"Oh mah gawd, that elevated thing will have people looking right into second floor bedroom windows!!!! and think of the children!!!"

14 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

All the way along High? lol. Clintonville and most definitely Worthington would kill it or die trying.  German Village would be raising hell too even though it would go through the Brewery District. 

 

"Oh mah gawd, that elevated thing will have people looking right into second floor bedroom windows!!!! and think of the children!!!"

There is some clever window fogging technology that has been invented that will automatically fog the windows when the trains are passing through certain areas.

although I do have to say thank you for pointing out who would most likely try to shoot the idea down.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by Julian

Just now, Julian said:

There is some clever window fogging technology that has been invented that will automatically fog the windows when the trains are passing through certain areas

But the German Villagers, Clintonvillains, etc. will not care. There is no way this could go along High through Clintonville and Worthington. You can't even get a building taller than 2 floors built along that part of the corridor-they would block the street with their own bodies before they would allow something like this. And they would have NIMBY allies joining them as well. 

 

I would have it stop(or veer off in another direction)before leaving Old North Columbus on the north end of it.

 

It is a nice thing to wonder about-this and a streetcar/subway/etc. Some kind of streetcar/light rail would happen before anything else(and even that is not very likely to happen). Also this thing would have to be done in a neo-colonial way for Worthington-can you make a monorail out of red brick and white painted wood lol.

3 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

But the German Villagers, Clintonvillains, etc. will not care. There is no way this could go along High through Clintonville and Worthington. You can't even get a building taller than 2 floors built along that part of the corridor-they would block the street with their own bodies before they would allow something like this. And they would have NIMBY allies joining them as well. 

 

I would have it stop(or veer off in another direction)before leaving Old North Columbus on the north end of it.

 

While some may argue, some also support the cause.  Although there are alternative routes that I have been exploring lately, such as the MORPC MTP routes from downtown to Dublin, and downtown to Rickenbacker airport, and I will be using the distance estimates that MORPC provides to estimate the total costs for the system.  The line in this case only would run along high through downtown while taking other routes elsewhere 

2 minutes ago, Julian said:

While some may argue, some also support the cause.  Although there are alternative routes that I have been exploring lately, such as the MORPC MTP routes from downtown to Dublin, and downtown to Rickenbacker airport, and I will be using the distance estimates that MORPC provides to estimate the total costs for the system.  The line in this case only would run along high through downtown while taking other routes elsewhere 

Anything development related should avoid Clintonville/Worthington at any cost lol.

10 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

 

 

It is a nice thing to wonder about-this and a streetcar/subway/etc. Some kind of streetcar/light rail would happen before anything else(and even that is not very likely to happen). Also this thing would have to be done in a neo-colonial way for Worthington-can you make a monorail out of red brick and white painted wood lol.

I guess they would rather get stuck with a system that has frequent accidents and is a hazard to bikes due to its location at street level.  Not much I can do but watch people get injured frequently and sometimes even killed.

1 minute ago, Toddguy said:

Anything development related should avoid Clintonville/Worthington at any cost lol.

That’s good to take note of.  I guess that’s why the MTP completely avoids Clintonville and Worthington with only six routes now. 

1 minute ago, Julian said:

I guess they would rather get stuck with a system that has frequent accidents and is a hazard to bikes due to its location at street level.  Not much I can do but watch people get injured frequently and sometimes even killed.

Yes. They would rather have that than a monorail. Anything related to public transport would have a better chance along the High Five from the Brewery District north through Old North Columbus. Stuff could go along High or near it. North of that forget it. I think it would have to bypass Clintonville and Worthington-maybe following a railroad ROW.

1 minute ago, Toddguy said:

Yes. They would rather have that than a monorail. Anything related to public transport would have a better chance along the High Five from the Brewery District north through Old North Columbus. Stuff could go along High or near it. North of that forget it. I think it would have to bypass Clintonville and Worthington-maybe following a railroad ROW.

Then there’s the problem of the railroads, whereas heading to Dublin, there could be a spur line to Polaris from there, which although it would be extra, it would allow people to ride from Dublin to Polaris with ease

Another issue that could be posed by following railroad ROW, is the high clearance required by double stack container cars that are carried frequently by both Northfolk Southern, and CSX Transportation.  This would make the system more expensive by increasing the height of the guideway to accommodate the taller container cars.

What systems would people like to see that could feed into a monorail or other transit type system?

I don’t like monorails on a track or suspended. The supports needed to hold the monorail act as a physical barrier dividing from one side of the monorail from the other. It’s similar to elevated highways, but, of course, not as drastic. 
 

Monorails are also very aesthetically unappealing due to the same reason. 

4 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

I don’t like monorails on a track or suspended. The supports needed to hold the monorail act as a physical barrier dividing from one side of the monorail from the other. It’s similar to elevated highways, but, of course, not as drastic. 
 

Monorails are also very aesthetically unappealing due to the same reason. 

It would be very difficult to have a monorail go along High and not be aesthetically jarring, to say the least. But it would be a good idea to seriously propose one. The Clintonvillains and Worthingtonians would nearly stroke out-then you could say "ok well how about a streetcar/lightrail/BRT line as a compromise? lol.

47 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

It would be very difficult to have a monorail go along High and not be aesthetically jarring, to say the least. But it would be a good idea to seriously propose one. The Clintonvillains and Worthingtonians would nearly stroke out-then you could say "ok well how about a streetcar/lightrail/BRT line as a compromise? lol.

its not too diffucult, monorail systems do not require as much support as standard elevated metro/light rail, and the guideways are a lot smaller, which makes them cast less of a shadow on the street.  the support pillars can also be customized in many ways to suite a neighborhoods needs from the pillars and how they should look, and stations are the same way

54 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

The Clintonvillains and Worthingtonians would nearly stroke out-then you could say "ok well how about a streetcar/lightrail/BRT line as a compromise? lol.

and given that ive mentioned the downsides to the above forms earlier, im not really going to activly promote them.  it is monorail that im fighting to see at least added as an option to the list of viable transit forms for some of the corridors here in Columbus.  my big goal is to get a system implemented, however.

On 9/6/2020 at 11:38 AM, Julian said:

I guess they would rather get stuck with a system that has frequent accidents and is a hazard to bikes due to its location at street level.  Not much I can do but watch people get injured frequently and sometimes even killed.

 

I encourage you to become more familiar with streetcars before commenting/reacting further. Read about them, ride them, and talk to people in communities like Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, Boston, San Franscisco, etc that already have them.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

I encourage you to become more familiar with streetcars before commenting/reacting further. Read about them, ride them, and talk to people in communities like Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, Boston, San Franscisco, etc that already have them.

The closest system to Columbus would be in Cincinnati, also, if you do research on accidents, way more stuff regarding light rail/streetcar pops up.  And being a bike rider, I know the hazards of crossing rails on a bike.  My AP English paper that I scored full points on was all about mass transit and included cost estimates for the same corridor in question based off of the existing systems and how much they have cost.  Another system I used for example was the T in Pittsburgh, in regards to system speed.  I also have spoken to actual engineers and planners who work on these projects to confirm how accurate the costs would be

Take that, KJP!

As for safety, https://abc13.com/metro-traffic-accidents-pedestrians-killed/3462012/

 

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/01/31/rtd-light-rail-aurora-collision/

 

https://kdvr.com/news/local/pedestrian-struck-killed-by-rtd-train-in-stapleton-a-line-service-disrupted/

https://denver.cbslocal.com/tag/light-rail-accident/

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-light-rail-crash-20200902-fdhes2brdbbvvkp76f6la42xey-story.html

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/tag/light-rail/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/scores-injured-in-san-francisco-light-rail-crash-1.836194

https://www.wcpo.com/news/government/cincinnati-streetcar-crashes-is-there-something-about-walnut-street-leading-to-streetcar-crashes

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/downtown/2018/01/19/cincinnati-streetcar-while-not-service-crashes-and-derails/1049752001/
 

and this is only a small taste of all the accidents that streetcars/light rail is involved in on a normal basis

Quite a few of those aren't streetcars. Streetcars/trams have a record of accidents because they are a common mode of transportation around the world. I suppose if anyone actually wanted a monorail, there would more of them and there would be a higher record of accidents than there already are. How many are there? Who cares. Someone else can look them up. I'm not going to have a debate about a friggin' monorail. Streetcars/trams build livable cities. Monorails decorate amusement parks.

Lord, this conversation has already gone off the rails. Ha 

 

But seriously, streetcar/LR is just not that dangerous on the whole. Every system has its flaws but streetcars and light rail are used across the globe; painting it as some super dangerous mode of transit is absurd. As for the monorail, eh. I think monorail is just too limited by design. The system (standard or suspended) feels more gimmicky and doesn't offer the versatility of rail. While I see the appeal and ease of setting up a monorail vs a traditional rail system, the longevity and versatility just isn't there.

37 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

Lord, this conversation has already gone off the rails. Ha 

 

But seriously, streetcar/LR is just not that dangerous on the whole. Every system has its flaws but streetcars and light rail are used across the globe; painting it as some super dangerous mode of transit is absurd. As for the monorail, eh. I think monorail is just too limited by design. The system (standard or suspended) feels more gimmicky and doesn't offer the versatility of rail. While I see the appeal and ease of setting up a monorail vs a traditional rail system, the longevity and versatility just isn't there.

The Wuppertal Schwebebahn is a monorail that has been running for over 100 years now, next year will mark its 120th anniversary.  That’s longevity 

51 minutes ago, KJP said:

Quite a few of those aren't streetcars. Streetcars/trams have a record of accidents because they are a common mode of transportation around the world. I suppose if anyone actually wanted a monorail, there would more of them and there would be a higher record of accidents than there already are. How many are there? Who cares. Someone else can look them up. I'm not going to have a debate about a friggin' monorail. Streetcars/trams build livable cities. Monorails decorate amusement parks.

If they were only used in amusement parks, Japan would not have more than EIGHT of the worlds systems in revenue use in proper transit venues, people always seem to use the same misconceptions about monorail to kill the project, despite weather or not they are true. 
I like what @DevolsDance said earlier about all systems having flaws, as monorail has them as well, but in general the system is safer as it is elevated, as are other Grade Separated systems.  That’s part of why I promote it.  The other reason I promote it over others is the fact that it doesn’t take as much ground or air space as other elevated transit systems, which makes it better in terms of cost.  Although if we really want to get technical, the least space that an elevated system can take, with lowest costs, is aerial cable transit, which also works in some areas.

Some research on my part has shown another viable corridor for monorail here in Columbus, one that would work better, being the Northeast Corridor from the MORPC MTP

On 9/6/2020 at 2:46 AM, Pugu said:

What's it called?

 

Monobrow. 

34 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Monobrow. 

?

 

Why does everyone consider monorail to be a joke exactly? I know there was a Simpson’s episode making fun of it, but its actually a lot more effective then one would think when done right

where does your 1.4 billion dollars number come from? I don't think you are getting 35 miles of rail for anything near that price

39 minutes ago, Julian said:

?

 

Why does everyone consider monorail to be a joke exactly? I know there was a Simpson’s episode making fun of it, but its actually a lot more effective then one would think when done right

If you're looking at why any "new" or "fad" transportation technology isn't being adopted, the answer is- there's a reason for it.

 

There are literally hundreds of cities all around the world that are trying to figure out how to move people efficiently and some one reason or another that monorails keep getting passed over. 

49 minutes ago, Julian said:

?

 

Why does everyone consider monorail to be a joke exactly? I know there was a Simpson’s episode making fun of it, but its actually a lot more effective then one would think when done right

 

I honestly feel like proponents of "monorail" need to rebrand because as you said, everyone considers it a joke. Or if they're not identifying it with that disaster (that Simpson's episode with raccoons eating all the wiring) they associate it with theme parks and not a viable or credible option for urban transportation. 

Edited January 27, 20214 yr by surfohio

4 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

If you're looking at why any "new" or "fad" transportation technology isn't being adopted, the answer is- there's a reason for it.

 

There are literally hundreds of cities all around the world that are trying to figure out how to move people efficiently and some one reason or another that monorails keep getting passed over. 

 

Yeah, its probably because they are expensive, conspicuous, almost necessarily forced to be a single dedicated line and there are probably fewer monorail vendors to work with.  Columbus does not have the congestion necessary for an elevated line to be the best option.  

Edited January 27, 20214 yr by Whipjacka

7 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

where does your 1.4 billion dollars number come from? I don't think you are getting 35 miles of rail for anything near that price

From figures given to me by Mitsubishi Heavy industries for a per mile basis of a type of Monorail they market.  However, I will need to update the figures with inflation from the past two-three years when I got the information from them.

8 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

If you're looking at why any "new" or "fad" transportation technology isn't being adopted, the answer is- there's a reason for it.

 

There are literally hundreds of cities all around the world that are trying to figure out how to move people efficiently and some one reason or another that monorails keep getting passed over. 

“New” you say, clearly you have never heard of systems like the Wuppertal Monorail, which has been running since 1901 with only one incident that had passenger fatalities.  And you are also neglecting systems that have been operating consistently such as the Tokyo monorail, the Chiba monorail, the Shonan monorail, and many others, some of which have been running since the 60’s.  “New” and “Fad” would be the Hyperloop, which only got proposed in 2014

6 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

 

Yeah, its probably because they are expensive, conspicuous, almost necessarily forced to be a single dedicated line and there are probably fewer monorail vendors to work with.  Columbus does not have the congestion necessary for an elevated line to be the best option.  

“Fewer” being Bombardier, Hatachi, Intamin Transportation LLC, Scomi Rail BHD, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Siemens Transportation systems, Metrail, Aerobus International, Skytran, Urbanaut Company, and some others.

17 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

I honestly feel like proponents of "monorail" need to rebrand because as you said, everyone considers it a joke. Or if they're not identifying it with that disaster (that Simpson's episode with raccoons eating all the wiring) they associate it with theme parks and not a viable or credible option for urban transportation. 

You have a good point there, although there are several such systems running in the world currently in actual transit scenarios instead of just amusement areas.  The thing against monorail seems to mostly be a problem with Americans

Edited January 27, 20214 yr by Julian

Wuppertal was built as a suspended railway because the river was the only available corridor and it was a major steel producing region which reduced the cost of construction.  A pretty unique situation. 

 

Yes there's some systems in Japan too.  This video of the Shonan Monorail is pretty cool.  It's single-track with some massive switches at stations that are also passing sidings.  But notice how built-up it is along its whole length.  That's New York, Chicago, or San Francisco inner city density.  Also, at 4.1 miles long, with 8 stations, and a 14 minute end-to-end time, that's not even an 18mph schedule speed.  Cut the stations in half and a 34 mile run is still going to be well over an hour, maybe closer to an hour and a half.  That's not particularly competitive or compelling. 

 

There appear to be 29 monorail systems in the world that fall under the urban transit or people mover definition.  That does not include systems at airports, amusement parks, or Jungle Jim's.  Conversely, there's about 800 streetcar or light rail systems.   

^The monorail systems are so few that the rolling stock, switches, signaling, electric systems, etc., are all more or less custom. It's like how there is so much proprietary stuff on the BART system and that makes its upkeep and expansion much more expensive than if it was a standard postwar rapid transit system like Washington, DC or MARTA.  

 

Also, the big engineering companies like Parsons-Brinkerhoff have consultants who have tons of experience with rapid transit, light rail, etc.  I'd bet that there are only a handful of monorail consultants and they get to demand a much higher rate.  

52 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

^The monorail systems are so few that the rolling stock, switches, signaling, electric systems, etc., are all more or less custom. It's like how there is so much proprietary stuff on the BART system and that makes its upkeep and expansion much more expensive than if it was a standard postwar rapid transit system like Washington, DC or MARTA.  

 

 

Did you miss the list of companies I mentioned that all manufacturer monorail technology? Or did you just ignore it like most people probably would when they are making decisions about mass transit?

1 hour ago, jjakucyk said:

 

There appear to be 29 monorail systems in the world that fall under the urban transit or people mover definition.  That does not include systems at airports, amusement parks, or Jungle Jim's.  Conversely, there's about 800 streetcar or light rail systems.   

Do you know why there are not more systems?  It’s mostly because of one, the stereotype that monorail systems can not have any junctions, which you addressed already as false, props to you, and then two, because almost everyone thinks it’s only something for amusement centres and other entertainment venues

Might I also add that my cost figures were actually verified by an engineer at AECOM, a well known major Infrastructure firm.

18 minutes ago, Julian said:

Did you miss the list of companies I mentioned that all manufacturer monorail technology? Or did you just ignore it like most people probably would when they are making decisions about mass transit?

 

They build far, far more traditional transit lines and traditional transit trains.  Like 100X more.  Way more expertise both in building and maintaining.  Way more spare parts.  Way more consultants.  

Economies of scale.

3 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

They build far, far more traditional transit lines and traditional transit trains.  Like 100X more.  Way more expertise both in building and maintaining.  Way more spare parts.  Way more consultants.  

Well, you do have a point there, however, monorail tech is also made by them, which is my own point, I already know about the conventional rail tech since I’ve done research on Commuter trains that Bombardier builds.  I also know that at least two of the mentioned companies also make what’s called Automated Guideway Transit, and Bombardier makes a Rubber Tyre Tram called Guided Light Transit.  I also know that Siemens does some other conventional rail engines as well

25 minutes ago, Julian said:

...the stereotype that monorail systems can not have any junctions...

 

But just because they can do it doesn't mean it's simple, cost-effective, or low-maintenance.  Passing sidings, crossovers, or a single turnout are cumbersome but doable sure.  Flush crossings, such as a two-track branch line splitting off of a two-track mainline, either require multiple switches and opposite-direction movements with pinch points and delays, or flyovers, which still require switches. 

1 minute ago, jjakucyk said:

 

But just because they can do it doesn't mean it's simple, cost-effective, or low-maintenance.  Passing sidings, crossovers, or a single turnout are cumbersome but doable sure.  Flush crossings, such as a two-track branch line splitting off of a two-track mainline, either require multiple switches and opposite-direction movements with pinch points and delays, or flyovers, which still require switches. 

Well, when was the last time a monorail derailed on a set of points?  Whereas I can already name a few derailments caused by faulty points on standard railways

It sounds like your prime directive is a zero failure rate.

Just now, GCrites80s said:

It sounds like your prime directive is a zero failure rate.

Safety, speed, and comfort are motivators, and while monorail may be more upfront costs, it is able to be cheaper in the long run