January 30, 20214 yr ^The only monorail I've ridden is the one at Disneyworld one, back in the 80s. Maybe it has changed, but I recall being surprised by how not smooth the ride was. Same with the rubber-tired Montreal subway - similarly not smooth.
January 30, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, Julian said: Safety, speed, and comfort are motivators, and while monorail may be more upfront costs, it is able to be cheaper in the long run Wouldn't Vancouver's SkyTrain be a more practical model if going by that? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 30, 20214 yr Author 16 hours ago, ColDayMan said: Wouldn't Vancouver's SkyTrain be a more practical model if going by that? That’s Elevated Light Rail.
January 30, 20214 yr Author 16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: ^The only monorail I've ridden is the one at Disneyworld one, back in the 80s. Maybe it has changed, but I recall being surprised by how not smooth the ride was. Same with the rubber-tired Montreal subway - similarly not smooth. The ride was smooth when I rode on December 31st, 2019. In fact, it helped me get over my fear of heights for the most part
January 31, 20214 yr 6 hours ago, Julian said: That’s Elevated Light Rail. "Safety, speed, and comfort." "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 31, 20214 yr Author 41 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: "Safety, speed, and comfort." True, however, elevated light rail does take up more air space, which does lead to more of a shadow on the ground. Said shadow from elevated light rail is most undesirable in most communities, and monorail is desirable because it is less of a shadow on the ground. Not to mention that lighter structures don’t need as many support pillars, which in turn does not require as much ground space
February 3, 20214 yr On 1/29/2021 at 12:42 PM, Julian said: Safety, speed, and comfort are motivators, and while monorail may be more upfront costs, it is able to be cheaper in the long run Ish. There are really a plethora of reasons why monorail is regularly passed up. On a track level, a monorail system is still quite complicated to maintain without the same level of support and access as traditional rail lines. Track switches significantly more complicated and slow, the vehicles have just as many points of failure, and the initial costs are still pretty astronomical like rail. Monorails closest sibling is the streetcar/tram. The problem is that trams are pretty perfect at moving people on the ground, quickly and attractively. It draws development, activity, and retains its human scale in the urban environment. Monorail just cannot compete with this, it pretty much has to be elevated or submerged since it cannot support at grade crossings meaning it disconnects the system from the street. I don't think anyone here is trying to crush your dreams on monorail, but reasons exist as to why very few cities have adopted it. If you already have trains, there really is little reason to complicate things by introducing a new mode of transit... and if you don't have trains, why throw away your chances to change a city on what and equally pricy 'almost' train.
February 3, 20214 yr Author 10 minutes ago, DevolsDance said: Ish. There are really a plethora of reasons why monorail is regularly passed up. On a track level, a monorail system is still quite complicated to maintain without the same level of support and access as traditional rail lines. Track switches significantly more complicated and slow, the vehicles have just as many points of failure, and the initial costs are still pretty astronomical like rail. Again with all this talk about Junctions, so to reiterate some previous points, many monorail systems currently in operation would not exist with quick, effective junctions, and despite there being around 13 or so systems world wide, some running since the 60s, 70s, and 80s, never once has a monorail derailed on a junction. Whereas I can bring up several times where standard trains have derailed on junctions.
February 3, 20214 yr Author 15 minutes ago, DevolsDance said: Monorails closest sibling is the streetcar/tram. The problem is that trams are pretty perfect at moving people on the ground, quickly and attractively. It draws development, activity, and retains its human scale in the urban environment. Monorail just cannot compete with this, it pretty much has to be elevated or submerged since it cannot support at grade crossings meaning it disconnects the system from the street. While the ability to quickly move along the ground is good, the systems still provide hazzards to bike riders similar to those crossing conventional railway lines on grade crossings, only now, the railway is basically in the middle of the street. Another issue with being on ground level is that pedestrians are much more likely to get struck by said trains because of being oblivious to their surroundings or for other reasons. Some of the benefits of being elevated include not having to worry about striking people or automobiles on the tracks. And elevated systems such as monorail are Way cheaper than an underground system, with the benefit of not being confined to tunnels should something happen. all forms of transit have their benefits and downsides
February 3, 20214 yr Author 22 minutes ago, DevolsDance said: I don't think anyone here is trying to crush your dreams on monorail, but reasons exist as to why very few cities have adopted it. If you already have trains, there really is little reason to complicate things by introducing a new mode of transit... and if you don't have trains, why throw away your chances to change a city on what and equally pricy 'almost' train. What trains? There is no passenger rail of any kind in Columbus, Ohio. And I am not counting illegally hopping freight trains on the list. I wouldn’t be working to implement monorail in the city if there already was. furthermore, monorail has many benefits to it that some may see as more appealing than standard rail. Edited February 3, 20214 yr by Julian
February 3, 20214 yr You have to recognize there is a risk of something bad happening whenever you leave your house and, as an adult, you weigh these risks against probabilities of a negative result and decide how much investment you would like to make in order to keep yourself 100% safe. Since all of the arguments are made with no real citation, i decided to read a safety statistics report about Fixed Rail Transit systems. There were 120 deaths nationwide due to heavy rail trains in 2013. There were zero fatalities with streetcars in 2013. 80% of all fatalities dealing with fixed rail systems comes from trespass and suicide. A standardized analysis from a five year sample shows a streetcar system will yield 25 deaths per 100 million service miles (or 3 million spans of your proposed rail) and 2,980 injuries/100 million miles. 20 of these fatalities (per 100 M service miles) will be from collision. There are also risks of injury, of course, in using elevated monorail platforms. https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/Rail Safety Statistics Report.pdf We all have different risk thresholds, but streetcars are safe enough for me to choose as the option over monorail. Edited February 3, 20214 yr by Whipjacka
February 3, 20214 yr Author 11 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: A standardized analysis from a five year sample shows a streetcar system will yield 25 deaths per 100 million service miles (or 3 million spans of your proposed rail) and 2,980 injuries/100 million miles. 20 of these fatalities (per 100 M service miles) will be from collision. I am just curious to know where you got “3 million spans” from, as you make monorail sound much more dangerous in this analysis.
February 3, 20214 yr I'm saying that if your 35 mile route was a streetcar, instead of a monorail, you could expect 25 deaths every 1.5 million round trips. i don't have any idea what the fatality/injury risk is on a monorail. I'd imagine there isn't much risk at all
February 3, 20214 yr Author 2 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: I'm saying that if your 35 mile route was a streetcar, instead of a monorail, you could expect 25 deaths every 1.5 million round trips. i don't have any idea what the fatality/injury risk is on a monorail. I'd imagine there isn't much risk at all I’m currently looking through some of the sources I mentioned in an editorial I did last year to find the statistics and other stuff I cited for such, but yeah, there’s not much risk with monorail. but, I definitely commend you for your work on finding some stats as well
February 3, 20214 yr Author Took me a while to find, but here is one of the documents I referred to in the editorial of mine, with monorail falling under “other” as Automated Guideway Transit along with other AGT systems like the Metromover and Detroit People Mover https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/regulations-and-guidance/safety/118696/fta-rail-transit-safety-data-report-2007-2015-final.pdf
February 4, 20214 yr This seems like a general discussion of monorails in general so I have changed the title to reflect that. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 4, 20214 yr Author 1 hour ago, ColDayMan said: This seems like a general discussion of monorails in general so I have changed the title to reflect that. Yeah, we seem to have derailed from my original goal regarding monorail specifically for the City of Columbus, Ohio.
April 30, 20214 yr just for comparison, i see chongqing line 3 monorail is the longest and busiest in the world. it was built in stages and is over 34.17 miles, so i guess just shorter than op's columbus idea. it was finished in 2012 and it cost an estimated $2.1B in chinese slave labor or underpaid non-union or peoples workers or whatever the heck hella sus labor and costs they have. otoh, it does show that long monorail routes are real and it could be done. i didn't even know there were any lengthy monorail routes. so ok just for fun, if a monorail was built in columbus, my take is i wouldn't run it down high street in the central city. i would run it down indianola/summit/3rd st between morse road and german village. its actually better to keep the service close and parallel to the main drag of high street and off of it over its busiest stretch. i guess if lazybones people didn't go for that it could go on high st across the top of those dopey arches (i know, i know, but i don't like'm lol). anyway, its fun to play sim city with this mode of transit, it certainly is flexible. i have always thought columbus will get several rail transit lines all at once someday, rather than piecemeal. in fact i am surprized and rather disappointed cota or some regional entity doesn't have a shovel ready plan right now to go get columbus some of that rail infrastructure $$$ from uncle joe.
December 16, 20213 yr ^ yeah i know, they been talking about that for years now. i mean, a new airtrain? ok i guess if its really so worn out. its not a boondoogle exactly, but ... ideally there should be direct rail services through the airport terminals, like using the path train. anyway, since an airtrain is written in stone, the big thing for newark airport will be extending the path train 1.5 more miles down to the airport from it's newark penn terminal to at least meet the airtrain. here is the rfp: The New AirTrain Newark will be a 2.5-mile elevated guideway train system and the centerpiece of the modernization of Newark Liberty International Airport. The New AirTrain will replace the existing AirTrain, which opened in 1996 and is reaching the end of its useful life which makes it susceptible to more frequent breakdowns and delays. The New AirTrain will be designed to maximize customer convenience with seamless connections to other forms of transportation and provide modern wayfinding, digital tools and amenities in AirTrain stations and in vehicles. In addition to the guideway and stations, the project also includes construction of a 55,900-sq-ft maintenance and control facility, a 13,000-sq-ft expansion of the Rail Link station, pedestrian connectors and demolition of the existing monorail. more: https://www.constructionjournal.com/projects/details/370044a717ca4f458e32a37438fb28db.html path train extension news: News Companies vying to complete $2B replacement of Newark Airport monorail Updated: May. 06, 2021, 11:02 a.m. | Published: May. 06, 2021, 10:30 a.m. A PATH extension from Newark Penn Station to the Airport has been proposed, which would stop outside the airport. The fate of that proposal maybe in limbo, along with others in the authority's $32 billion capital plan due to revenue losses expected to hit $3 billion by March 2022 due to coronavirus travel declines. May 6, 2021 Previdi questioned whether the authority’s plans to extend PATH into the airport will change due to a Jan. 12 Federal Aviation Administration policy change. That decision allows Passenger Facility Charges, which finance airport projects, to be used to build rail lines and stations to serve the airport, even if they’re part of a line that extends to stations off the airport property. Before, that funding could only finance a rail line that exclusively served an airport. This project does not preclude the Port Authority’s ability to connect the Rail Link Station to the PATH system in the future, officials said. more: https://www.nj.com/news/2021/05/companies-vying-to-complete-2b-replacement-of-newark-airport-monorail.html OPINION: The Port Authority’s Wrong Moves at Newark Airport The agency plans to replace the AirTrain and extend the PATH train — a bit. It should bring the PATH directly to the terminals. By Bob Previdi May 16, 2021 more: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/05/16/opinion-the-port-authoritys-wrong-moves-at-newark-airport/
December 16, 20213 yr Why cities rarely build monorails. https://ggwash.org/view/67201/why-cities-rarely-build-monorails-explained
September 6, 20222 yr ^ hideousness dodged. dont cheapout, just do the real work and build a subway up and down high street. or alternately light rail down summit/3rd and back up 4th/indianola. but either not until after a downtown>airport>intelworld rail line.
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