July 15, 2024Jul 15 1 minute ago, KJP said: Cleveland-Cliffs to buy Canadian steelmaker Stelco in $2.5 billion deal https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/cleveland-cliffs-acquire-stelco-2-101141593.html I wonder if this rules out a USX purchase?
July 15, 2024Jul 15 52 minutes ago, E Rocc said: I wonder if this rules out a USX purchase? I would think so
July 15, 2024Jul 15 13 minutes ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said: I would think so Too bad. We owe the black and yellow city one for swiping National City Bank.
September 2, 2024Sep 2 And so it continues… Harris to back US ownership of US Steel, in blow to takeover by Japanese company Kevin Liptak and Kayla Tausche, CNN https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/02/politics/kamala-harris-us-steel/index.html
September 3, 2024Sep 3 13 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: And so it continues… Harris to back US ownership of US Steel, in blow to takeover by Japanese company Kevin Liptak and Kayla Tausche, CNN https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/02/politics/kamala-harris-us-steel/index.html To paraphrase a truly great President that in many ways was the opposite of the current GOP nominee (and directly quote underrated 90s band the London Quireboys), there she goes again. DJT opposed it back in January. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/31/trump-us-steel-sale-00138910 Bipartisan is good, but he's likely to crow about it and be an asshat which won't do anything any good.
September 4, 2024Sep 4 On 9/2/2024 at 6:56 PM, Oldmanladyluck said: And so it continues… Harris to back US ownership of US Steel, in blow to takeover by Japanese company Kevin Liptak and Kayla Tausche, CNN https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/02/politics/kamala-harris-us-steel/index.html This thing is getting REALLY messy. President Joe Biden is preparing to announce that he will block the $14.9 billion takeover of U.S. Steel by Japan's Nippon Steel, according to The Washington Post. U.S. Steel CEO David Burritt told The Wall Street Journal the company would likely close plants and move its headquarters from Pittsburgh if the deal is blocked. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/09/04/us-steel-shares-drop-more-than-15percent-on-report-white-house-preparing-to-block-nippon-steel-takeover.html As I mentioned before politics is driving a lot of the M&A news right now, I worry tho that Biden and Admin is too aggressive. News of plants closures and HQ moves is not going to help. Edited September 4, 2024Sep 4 by 646empire
September 4, 2024Sep 4 8 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: is cliffs even in position to buy anymore? I don’t think so. I’m wondering if there is an under the wraps American buyer, otherwise this may turn out to be very unfavorable for the folks in PA. I also can’t imagine anyone being able invest that sum of money in those old plants besides the Japanese Group and guarantee Pitt some office/HQ jobs. Might be one of those be careful what you wish for moments in the making. We shall see.
September 4, 2024Sep 4 29 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: is cliffs even in position to buy anymore? Their offer was 1/2 stock and 1/2 cash, totaling ~$35 per X share. Since then Cliff's stock has declined about $5 a share. It would take a lot more cash to do the deal now. After the Stelco commitment, I'm not sure they have it. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 13, 2024Sep 13 From a story on Cliffs' replacement of an asset-based loan: "Cliffs has completely replaced Goldman Sachs’ participation with increased commitments from Bank of America, Wells Fargo, J.P. Morgan, Fifth Third, Truist, Capital One, BMO, Huntington, and U.S. Bank. Additionally, PNC, Flagstar, UBS, MUFG, Regions, Barclays, ING, RBC, and First Citizens have also maintained their existing commitments to the ABL." Bad blood between Cliffs and Key? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cleveland-cliffs-successfully-amends-asset-123100462.html Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 15, 2024Sep 15 Saving money? Cleveland-Cliffs CEO says company might scrap planned environmental upgrade in Middletown Published: Sep. 14, 2024, 3:05 p.m. By Staff, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland-Cliffs is wavering on whether to move forward with plans announced earlier this year to decarbonize its Middletown Works, a decision it said at the time would keep 2,500 jobs at the plant and produce substantial savings. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2024/09/cleveland-cliffs-ceo-says-company-might-scrap-planned-environmental-upgrade-in-middletown.html
September 15, 2024Sep 15 ^ A lot of money to spend on something that doesn't help the bottom line. Especially if the priorities change in January in DC.
September 19, 2024Sep 19 On 9/15/2024 at 10:59 AM, Oldmanladyluck said: Saving money? Cleveland-Cliffs CEO says company might scrap planned environmental upgrade in Middletown Published: Sep. 14, 2024, 3:05 p.m. By Staff, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland-Cliffs is wavering on whether to move forward with plans announced earlier this year to decarbonize its Middletown Works, a decision it said at the time would keep 2,500 jobs at the plant and produce substantial savings. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2024/09/cleveland-cliffs-ceo-says-company-might-scrap-planned-environmental-upgrade-in-middletown.html Cliffs reaffirmed their commitment to make the upgrades to the Middletown plant. Their concerns about not having a buyer for greener steel struck me as unfounded. Ford and GM in the US (among others worldwide) have committed to using at least 10% "near-zero carbon" steel by 2030, and there are currently almost no steelmakers making low-carbon steel. I think the market should be there by the time this plant is done with its proposed changes. https://www.clevelandcliffs.com/news/news-releases/detail/652/cleveland-cliffs-reaffirms-commitment-to-middletown-works
November 9, 2024Nov 9 That was quickly and quietly completed. Interesting to see what happens with Cliffs and US Steel given the election results. https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/cleveland-cliffs-completes-acquisition-stelco-2024-11-01
December 3, 2024Dec 3 Maybe Cliffs still has a chance for US Steel? https://thehill.com/business/5019060-trump-opposes-nippon-steel-acquisition/?utm_campaign=TheHill-trending-stories&utm_source=fox8.com&utm_medium=thehill-cross-brand
December 3, 2024Dec 3 Not for the originally offered $55 a share, or $15 billion, that's for sure. Nucor may start bidding again if that amount falls, especially given Cleveland Cliffs 2024 struggles. Maybe even Steel Dynamics. They've done well this year and have a history of buying steel companies. Edited December 3, 2024Dec 3 by TBideon
December 4, 2024Dec 4 23 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Maybe Cliffs still has a chance for US Steel? https://thehill.com/business/5019060-trump-opposes-nippon-steel-acquisition/?utm_campaign=TheHill-trending-stories&utm_source=fox8.com&utm_medium=thehill-cross-brand We can hope they have a chance to compete for it again. Not sure what Trump has in mind in terms of tariffs and tax incentives to save US Steel though. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cleveland-cliffs-ceo-still-interested-in-us-steel-purchase-globe-and-mail/ar-AA1uJERD
January 3Jan 3 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-plans-to-block-takeover-bid-of-u-s-steel-by-japan-s-nippon-wapo/vi-AA1wUsoB?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1064560cc4a0402a9fd18a6af42dfbe7&ei=15
January 3Jan 3 Here's the article. https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/03/business/biden-blocks-us-nippon-steel-takeover/index.html
January 3Jan 3 4 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said: Biden Blocks Sale of U.S. Steel to Nippon Steel Beat me to it. DJT opposed the sale as well.
January 3Jan 3 There is some speculation that USS will be sold off in pieces, potentially worth more than the whole. I'm not sure all of the pieces are viable on their own; there will probably be some closures, especially in the Chicago area, if this is the eventual fate of the company. Cliffs will no doubt be among the bidders. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 4Jan 4 8 hours ago, Dougal said: There is some speculation that USS will be sold off in pieces, potentially worth more than the whole. I'm not sure all of the pieces are viable on their own; there will probably be some closures, especially in the Chicago area, if this is the eventual fate of the company. Cliffs will no doubt be among the bidders. Yikes what a hot mess if true. Biden Admin takes this macho position definitely assuming it was gonna score brownie points especially in critical Pennsylvania and still gets swept out of power. Now bidders may pay more for individual pieces of it, sounds like a L for multiple parties. If I’m PA/Pittsburgh that now cancelled Nippon (US HQ) deal is sounding realllll good right now compared to what may be coming lol. And looking thru news articles Japan and other countries are definitely going to be returning the favor in the future as mentioned previously. This was all politics. But looking like bad politics and policy if the company gets broken up or fails. I can tell you Trump didn’t give a darn either way but in a tactical political move matched Bidens stance on the deal. As seen with the TikTok block the new admin is looking to reverse it’s all about power and influence. Edited January 4Jan 4 by 646empire
January 6Jan 6 On 1/3/2025 at 8:33 PM, 646empire said: Yikes what a hot mess if true. Biden Admin takes this macho position definitely assuming it was gonna score brownie points especially in critical Pennsylvania and still gets swept out of power. Now bidders may pay more for individual pieces of it, sounds like a L for multiple parties. If I’m PA/Pittsburgh that now cancelled Nippon (US HQ) deal is sounding realllll good right now compared to what may be coming lol. And looking thru news articles Japan and other countries are definitely going to be returning the favor in the future as mentioned previously. This was all politics. But looking like bad politics and policy if the company gets broken up or fails. I can tell you Trump didn’t give a darn either way but in a tactical political move matched Bidens stance on the deal. As seen with the TikTok block the new admin is looking to reverse it’s all about power and influence. The final decision came after the election -- at which point the politics didn't matter. Good decision or bad, Biden doesn't have to face any consequences.
January 6Jan 6 Author Not dead yet. Nippon is suing. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 6Jan 6 On 1/3/2025 at 8:33 PM, 646empire said: Yikes what a hot mess if true. Biden Admin takes this macho position definitely assuming it was gonna score brownie points especially in critical Pennsylvania and still gets swept out of power. Now bidders may pay more for individual pieces of it, sounds like a L for multiple parties. If I’m PA/Pittsburgh that now cancelled Nippon (US HQ) deal is sounding realllll good right now compared to what may be coming lol. And looking thru news articles Japan and other countries are definitely going to be returning the favor in the future as mentioned previously. This was all politics. But looking like bad politics and policy if the company gets broken up or fails. I can tell you Trump didn’t give a darn either way but in a tactical political move matched Bidens stance on the deal. As seen with the TikTok block the new admin is looking to reverse it’s all about power and influence. To be fair, IIRC DJT opposed the deal before Biden did. This article seems to support that recollection: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/31/trump-us-steel-sale-00138910
January 6Jan 6 13 minutes ago, KJP said: Not dead yet. Nippon is suing. Good. US Steel Wants to sell to Nippon Nippon wants to buy US Steel US Steel workers want Nippon to buy US Steel Cleveland Cliffs: "Is there someone you forgot to ask?" This is entirely motivated by Cliffs wanting to avoid any competition as they have been the biggest lobbyists against letting the sale go through. They would own 100% of the blast furnace capacity in the US. It will somehow need to get past the FTC, although, I can't imagine the Trump admin will care much. I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times. This is just protectionism and it is inherently inflationary. "National security" just means whatever is convenient for your argument. Japan is one of our closest allies and Nippon is a global leader in steel innovation. More competition here is good for literally everyone on Earth, except for the shareholders of Cliffs and folks that think American manufacturing will ever return to what it looked like during its golden age.
January 6Jan 6 1 hour ago, Foraker said: The final decision came after the election -- at which point the politics didn't matter. Good decision or bad, Biden doesn't have to face any consequences. What??? lol!!!!! Biden ran on blocking the deal. Do you really think he was going to turn around after the election and say SIKE! That would be horrible and politically a mistake not for him but the party.
January 6Jan 6 7 minutes ago, Zagapi said: US Steel workers want Nippon to buy US Steel No. They were on team Cliffs. https://m.usw.org/news/media-center/releases/2024/usw-commends-biden-for-blocking-uss-nippon-sale Edited January 6Jan 6 by GISguy
January 6Jan 6 As I said A MESS! NBC News: “Separately, U.S. Steel and Nippon said they were also suing the president of the union, David McCall; as well as the head of an Ohio-based rival mining firm, Cleveland-Cliffs, accusing them of illegally coordinating to undermine the transaction.” Edited January 6Jan 6 by 646empire
January 6Jan 6 1 minute ago, GISguy said: No. They were on team Cliffs. https://m.usw.org/news/media-center/releases/2024/usw-commends-biden-for-blocking-uss-nippon-sale You are confusing the United Steel Workers Union for the workers of U.S. Steel. USW is absolutely on the the side of reducing any type of foreign competition. Its called rent-seeking.
January 6Jan 6 27 minutes ago, Zagapi said: You are confusing the United Steel Workers Union for the workers of U.S. Steel. USW is absolutely on the the side of reducing any type of foreign competition. Its called rent-seeking. Here's an article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette showing the PA Workers support for the Nippon Steel purchase. https://www.post-gazette.com/business/powersource/2025/01/03/us-steel-nippon-biden-mon-valley-pittsburgh/stories/202501030076 Edited January 6Jan 6 by Zagapi Forgot to add the link lol
January 7Jan 7 4 hours ago, Zagapi said: Here's an article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette showing the PA Workers support for the Nippon Steel purchase. https://www.post-gazette.com/business/powersource/2025/01/03/us-steel-nippon-biden-mon-valley-pittsburgh/stories/202501030076 And another from local tv... https://www.wtae.com/article/us-steel-nippon-trump-steelworkers/63085379 Quote Union leaders at the Irvin Works in West Mifflin say 95% of their members are in favor of the Nippon merger
January 7Jan 7 5 hours ago, Zagapi said: Good. US Steel Wants to sell to Nippon Nippon wants to buy US Steel US Steel workers want Nippon to buy US Steel Cleveland Cliffs: "Is there someone you forgot to ask?" This is entirely motivated by Cliffs wanting to avoid any competition as they have been the biggest lobbyists against letting the sale go through. They would own 100% of the blast furnace capacity in the US. It will somehow need to get past the FTC, although, I can't imagine the Trump admin will care much. I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times. This is just protectionism and it is inherently inflationary. "National security" just means whatever is convenient for your argument. Japan is one of our closest allies and Nippon is a global leader in steel innovation. More competition here is good for literally everyone on Earth, except for the shareholders of Cliffs and folks that think American manufacturing will ever return to what it looked like during its golden age. Exactly. I can't understand why the "national security" argument would have any substance when Japan is such a close ally. It also neglects any potential gains to national security in the form of stronger economic ties, shared innovation, and production efficiency. I understand many people are partial to Cliffs or protectionist policies. However these arguments purely support political motivations and the increased dominance of a single company across the entire industry.
January 7Jan 7 5 hours ago, E Rocc said: To be fair, IIRC DJT opposed the deal before Biden did. This article seems to support that recollection: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/31/trump-us-steel-sale-00138910 Sounds like Nippon's China operations and future plans there were the only big sticking point. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/japans-nippon-steel-china-assets-under-scrutiny-over-us-steel-deal-bloomberg-2024-02-22/
January 7Jan 7 12 hours ago, sonisharri said: Exactly. I can't understand why the "national security" argument would have any substance when Japan is such a close ally. It also neglects any potential gains to national security in the form of stronger economic ties, shared innovation, and production efficiency. I saw some talking head on cable news claiming that there would have to be investigations in to "Japan's ties with China.." FWIW
January 7Jan 7 Ah yes, famous friends Japan and China. Seems silly to call out Japan with business ties to China and not call out other companies that do the same. Oh, wait. That would be literally everyone else.
January 7Jan 7 6 hours ago, Zagapi said: Ah yes, famous friends Japan and China. Seems silly to call out Japan with business ties to China and not call out other companies that do the same. Oh, wait. That would be literally everyone else. It could have to do with technology transfer, if the China connection is true. Several years ago I planned to visit China and ride the high-speed trains all over the country. The Wikipedia page went on, and on, and on about how Japanese companies were providing the technology, and as soon as the Chinese had enough to work with, they cancelled the contracts with the Japanese companies (Mitsubishi), and built the system themselves far, far cheaper than they would have done with the Japanese partner. Now they are exporting the technology much cheaper, and beating out Japan for international contracts in places like Indonesia. However, that earlier story on Wikipedia has all been changed to now reflect the Chinese perspective: "In 2003, the MOR was believed to favor Japan's Shinkansen technology, especially the 700 series.[32] The Japanese government touted the 40-year track record of the Shinkansen and offered favorable financing. A Japanese report envisioned a winner-take all scenario in which the winning technology provider would supply China's trains for over 8,000 km (5,000 mi) of high-speed rail.[33] However, Chinese citizens angry with Japan's denial of World War II war crimes organized a web campaign to oppose the awarding of HSR contracts to Japanese companies. The protests gathered over a million signatures and politicized the issue.[34] The MOR delayed the decision, broadened the bidding and adopted a diversified approach to adopting foreign high-speed train technology." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China There are many discussions online about this and other technology transfer issues with China. However, I can also believe fully that both Trump and Biden were playing on fears before an election of foreign (ie, not White) ownership of a famous American corporation.
January 8Jan 8 6 hours ago, westerninterloper said: It could have to do with technology transfer, if the China connection is true. Several years ago I planned to visit China and ride the high-speed trains all over the country. The Wikipedia page went on, and on, and on about how Japanese companies were providing the technology, and as soon as the Chinese had enough to work with, they cancelled the contracts with the Japanese companies (Mitsubishi), and built the system themselves far, far cheaper than they would have done with the Japanese partner. Now they are exporting the technology much cheaper, and beating out Japan for international contracts in places like Indonesia. On the other hand, US Steel loses out on a technology transfer from Nippon if the deal remains blocked. According to Fortune they would gain access to over 2,000 new patents including products currently impossible to manufacture in the US. The US isn't the only country with world-class technology; if we expect to have any chance of staying ahead of China we need to embrace the technology of other countries, not cut it off. Technology transfer to China is basically inevitable in the long term, but combining American and Japanese industrial knowledge seems like a good way to stay ahead of the curve. I've been reading Jane Jacob's book The Economy of Cities which has some pretty relevant discussion about how city economies develop by importing technologies, learning to produce them domestically, then spinning off new technologies that can be exported. This is true in China but also in our own economies. I'm not an engineer but I imagine, for example, that there is a lot of potential for Pittsburgh to develop as an exporter of cutting edge robotics through the intersection of CMU's research and new access to advanced materials technology. I'm sure there are many more possible opportunities as well.
January 8Jan 8 22 hours ago, Zagapi said: Ah yes, famous friends Japan and China. Japan is a political ally but it is a trade rival. China is a trade rival and a particularly shady one. It's a political rival as well. Steel manufacturing is an essential part of a modern economy but it's also a somewhat fragile one. Let a furnace go cold and it's extremely unlikely that it's coming back.
January 8Jan 8 45 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Japan is a political ally but it is a trade rival. China is a trade rival and a particularly shady one. It's a political rival as well. Steel manufacturing is an essential part of a modern economy but it's also a somewhat fragile one. Let a furnace go cold and it's extremely unlikely that it's coming back. Japan is certainly not a trade rival. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. The only reason I would consider China a "trade rival" is because of their terrible habit of intellectual property theft. They're certainly a political rival. But free trade means you don't have trade rivals, unless they are bad actors. Japan is certainly not a bad actor, especially compared to China. Nippon Steel would have a much stronger interest in keeping the US Steel furnaces running. Cliffs could eventually close them, thereby reducing supply and increasing the price of domestic steel which maintains their bottom line. Nippon has no incentive to close them after purchasing them.
January 8Jan 8 It certainly is for auto and electronics. Our trade deficit with them isn't helping matters either.
January 8Jan 8 42 minutes ago, TBideon said: It certainly is for auto and electronics. Our trade deficit with them isn't helping matters either. There's still some cultural resentment as well, which also doesn't help.
January 9Jan 9 9 hours ago, TBideon said: It certainly is for auto and electronics. Our trade deficit with them isn't helping matters either. China literally makes our electronics. The most advanced semiconductors currently can only be manufactured in Taiwan (TSMC) - maybe the CHIPS act will eventually cause that to change. Not to mention raw materials like lithium mined in third world countries. Not an expert on auto but I'm pretty sure much of the components are built elsewhere before they are assembled here. Point being that without abundant trade we would spend significantly more for products that perform significantly worse. To bring this back on topic, companies in other countries have specialized knowledge enabled by our global supply chain. Nippon would bring some of this knowledge to the US by acquiring US Steel. Even if, hypothetically, we could relearn all of that knowledge on our own, train a domestic workforce to do what foreign executives already know how to do, and develop our own plants and equipment independently, our trade "rivals" would already be five steps ahead of us by the time we finish.
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