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Ironically, Japan seems to know a lot about what happens when you try to cut off trade with "hostile" foreign nations...

https://www.tutorchase.com/answers/ib/history/what-were-the-economic-consequences-of-isolation-for-japan

 

If Cleveland-Cliffs dominates the domestic steel industry and imported steel is allowed to be tariffed at unimaginable rates, I don't think we can expect much innovation or improvement in efficiency in the US.

Edited by sonisharri

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  • LlamaLawyer
    LlamaLawyer

    The pessimism is kind of amusing. Here we have a fortune 500 company based in Cleveland since before the civil war, with Cleveland being part of its name, trying to acquire another huge company and pe

  • Sources: If Cliffs + US Steel happens, so does a new HQ By Ken Prendergast / September 26, 2023   Something is happening inside 200 Public Square that isn’t happening at many other downtow

  • Cool, so now I'm opposed to Cliffs acquiring US Steel... Go Nippon! My interests in this were always purely from a Cleveland pride standpoint and now that it seems like this deal is likely to reduce C

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11 hours ago, sonisharri said:

China literally makes our electronics. The most advanced semiconductors currently can only be manufactured in Taiwan (TSMC) - maybe the CHIPS act will eventually cause that to change. Not to mention raw materials like lithium mined in third world countries. Not an expert on auto but I'm pretty sure much of the components are built elsewhere before they are assembled here.

 

A lot of the subcomponents such as cast, molded, stamped, or machined parts are made here and shipped elsewhere to be assembled into components.  Then they come back here to be assembled into cars.  At my old place, most of our automotive parts went to Mexico or sometimes even China, our firearms stuff was shipped here.

 

Modern QA standards mean the subcomponent assembly process is thoroughly documented and heavily error proofed, meaning that skill or even education are not always required.   This wasn't intentionally done to facilitate assembly in low wage places but that was the result.

 

Side note:  Greenland has significant lithium deposits.

10 hours ago, sonisharri said:

Ironically, Japan seems to know a lot about what happens when you try to cut off trade with "hostile" foreign nations...

https://www.tutorchase.com/answers/ib/history/what-were-the-economic-consequences-of-isolation-for-japan

 

If Cleveland-Cliffs dominates the domestic steel industry and imported steel is allowed to be tariffed at unimaginable rates, I don't think we can expect much innovation or improvement in efficiency in the US.

 

You are correct about the tariffs, that's one Trump 1.0 policy I disliked a lot.   While our domestic metal manufacturers may have benefited, domestic metal consumers became less competitive globally, and they employ more people.

 

Foreign ownership of domestic industries, particularly defense critical ones, is a different matter entirely.  Especially by trade rivals or potential adversaries, and Japan is both.

57 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

Especially by trade rivals or potential adversaries, and Japan is both.


Japan is a very close ally of the US, it is not an Adversary, Japan is absolutely critical in keeping the Chinese at bay especially in a war. The country is a hugely important military operations center for American forces. If the Americans lose the Japanese or they become an adversary dark days are ahead. VERY DARK*

Edited by 646empire

1 hour ago, 646empire said:


Japan is a very close ally of the US, it is not an Adversary, Japan is absolutely critical in keeping the Chinese at bay especially in a war. The country is a hugely important military operations center for American forces. If the Americans lose the Japanese or they become an adversary dark days are ahead. VERY DARK*

 

So was Iran, and it was critical to keeping the Soviets at bay.

 

Military people look at capabilities at least as much as intentions.   We provided Japan with one of the biggest culture shocks anyone received in world history when we we won World War II.  In point of fact, Tom Clancy provided a quite credible potential scenario for a war with Japan in Debt of Honor.

 

Other countries now have to make dramatic changes with the corrupted US government. 

 

We aren't Japan's true ally anymore, not in the same way as pre-MAGA, and our former allies can't trust Russia's proxy to honor these agreements.

 

Japan is better off staying away for their own sakes.

  • Author

While this may have legs, it probably won't proceed until Nippon's lawsuit is dismissed or withdrawn. And that may take some time.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Cliffs and Nucor are making a joint pitch to get parts of U.S. Steel. High $30s per share.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/13/cleveland-cliffs-partnering-with-nucor-on-potential-bid-for-us-steel-sources-say.html

 

This might have legs.

 

Edit: Specifically, Nucor would be getting Big River Steel, and Cliffs gets everything else.

Article says US Steel's headquarters would remain in Pittsburgh.  Not clear from the article is whether that would be a subsidiary of a Cleveland-based Cliffs or if Cliffs would move.

.

Edited by cfdwarrior

1 hour ago, ryanfrazier said:

Article says US Steel's headquarters would remain in Pittsburgh.  Not clear from the article is whether that would be a subsidiary of a Cleveland-based Cliffs or if Cliffs would move.

Is Gonçalves building an eleven million dollar home in Mt. Lebanon?   I learned on UO, that's how you tell.  😋

Uh-OH!  Paging Governor DeWine you have been outplayed by rising star Governor Shapiro.

Goncalves also said that he has the support of Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro for such a bid, that he'd rename the entire company U.S. Steel and personally relocate to Pittsburgh.

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/13/cleveland-cliffs-us-steel-nippon

18 minutes ago, Willo said:

Uh-OH!  Paging Governor DeWine you have been outplayed by rising star Governor Shapiro.

Goncalves also said that he has the support of Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro for such a bid, that he'd rename the entire company U.S. Steel and personally relocate to Pittsburgh.

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/13/cleveland-cliffs-us-steel-nippon

 

 

Thought for sure you were joking.  Nope!

So wait, Cliffs might buy US Steel, but instead of a larger Cleveland headquarters, we'd actually lose downtown workers to Pittsburgh? 

Cleveland getting F$%#*& again.

46 minutes ago, Willo said:

Uh-OH!  Paging Governor DeWine you have been outplayed by rising star Governor Shapiro.

Goncalves also said that he has the support of Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro for such a bid, that he'd rename the entire company U.S. Steel and personally relocate to Pittsburgh.

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/13/cleveland-cliffs-us-steel-nippon

 

And VP JD Vance... 

 

edit: WHAT! I just read this Axios article and he said this?!

 

"China is bad, China is evil, but Japan is worse ... Japan, beware. You don't understand who you are. You have not learned anything since 1945."

Edited by coneflower

Gonclaves can be bombastic, I would imagine this is to endear himself to US steel employees. I would be shocked if he moved there.

9 minutes ago, bwheats said:

Gonclaves can be bombastic, I would imagine this is to endear himself to US steel employees. I would be shocked if he moved there.

Hearing him for the first time today he definitely is bombastic.  It was hard to make out his full comments, given his thick accent, but he rattled off rapid fire all of the leadership positions that would move to Pittsburgh and said he would put the name US Steel back on the building (in stronger language) - assuming he was referring to their iconic building that they sold and now has the name UMPC on all sides.

Bombastic is one way of putting it. 

Edited by coneflower

I commented way back in this thread that an acquisition of US Steel by a foreign company will be better for jobs. Dewine and Vance are asleep at the wheel and Cleveland might het the short end of the stick here. 

 

 

Here's a better idea. Keep the HQ here and change the name to U S Steel.

30 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Here's a better idea. Keep the HQ here and change the name to U S Steel.

Great idea! Somehow we thought they were more committed to Cleveland. What a blow if it happens...

 

...Goncalves’ commitment to move Cliffs’ headquarters from Cleveland to Pittsburgh was one promising factor. U.S. Steel has said that without the Nippon merger, it would leave the region and consolidate operations at its facilities in Arkansas.

https://www.cbs19news.com/townnews/politics/shapiro-could-support-new-u-s-steel-buyout-offer/article_952d3e7e-e32e-5593-891c-284b7086f4c1.html

Protecting Penn. jobs? What about protecting Ohio (Cleveland) jobs)? With Shapiro involved are DeWine and Vance asleep or just don't care? 

 

Instead of negotiating from a position of strength Goncalves appears to be giving away the store in his desire to acquire US Steel. If he does this he is  nothing more than a carpetbagger.

WTF

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/01/a-new-rival-bid-for-us-steel-is-emerging-as-the-us-extends-deadline-on-nippons-bid-blocked-by-biden.html

 

 

Goncalves declined to give financial details about the bid, but said in a news conference at a Cleveland-Cliffs plant in western Pennsylvania that it is an “all-American solution” to save U.S. Steel. He said he would relocate Cleveland-Cliffs’ headquarters to Pittsburgh, keep the U.S. Steel name and make Cleveland-Cliffs part of U.S. Steel.

10 minutes ago, OldEnough said:

WTF

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/01/a-new-rival-bid-for-us-steel-is-emerging-as-the-us-extends-deadline-on-nippons-bid-blocked-by-biden.html

 

 

Goncalves declined to give financial details about the bid, but said in a news conference at a Cleveland-Cliffs plant in western Pennsylvania that it is an “all-American solution” to save U.S. Steel. He said he would relocate Cleveland-Cliffs’ headquarters to Pittsburgh, keep the U.S. Steel name and make Cleveland-Cliffs part of U.S. Steel.


Unreal... It does feel like it could be one of those things guys like Lourenco say to get what they want then do it in a half measure or not at all after the deal is done. As an example: keeping the US Steel HQ open for a bit then moving it over to Cleveland.

Edited by downtownjoe

  • Author

Until proven otherwise, I would take him at his word. And his word is destructive. Time for the board to oust him.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

45 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Instead of negotiating from a position of strength Goncalves appears to be giving away the store in his desire to acquire US Steel. If he does this he is  nothing more than a carpetbagger.

 

Acquiring US Steel would be a huge win for Goncalves and the shareholders, they don't care what the name of the company is or where it is located. Should serve as a reminder that corporations don't show any loyalty to their home towns unless incentivized to. 

Edited by Luke_S

1 minute ago, Luke_S said:

 

Merging with Acquiring US Steel would be a huge win for Goncalves and the shareholders, they don't care what the name of the company is or where it is located. Should serve as a reminder that corporations don't show any loyalty to their home towns unless incentivized to. 

Depending on the price for the Arkansas mill, Nucor may be the real winner.  The rest of USS needs a lot of capital investment.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

Until proven otherwise, I would take him at his word. And his word is destructive. Time for the board to oust him.

Yeah Goncalves doesn't mince words. 

Well... I'm sure that got the attention of the City, the County, and the State of Ohio.  

8 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Well... I'm sure that got the attention of the City, the County, and the State of Ohio.  

But not the PD who buried (or completely missed) the lede.  

 

48 minutes ago, OldEnough said:

WTF

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/01/a-new-rival-bid-for-us-steel-is-emerging-as-the-us-extends-deadline-on-nippons-bid-blocked-by-biden.html

 

 

Goncalves declined to give financial details about the bid, but said in a news conference at a Cleveland-Cliffs plant in western Pennsylvania that it is an “all-American solution” to save U.S. Steel. He said he would relocate Cleveland-Cliffs’ headquarters to Pittsburgh, keep the U.S. Steel name and make Cleveland-Cliffs part of U.S. Steel.

Cleveland seems to always get the short end of the stick when it comes to mergers. That's like PNC saying "we'll move to Cleveland if you let us take over the struggling National City bank", wtf. 

Could be a big lesson on be careful what you wish for. Sheesh.

9 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Cleveland seems to always get the short end of the stick when it comes to mergers. That's like PNC saying "we'll move to Cleveland if you let us take over the struggling National City bank", wtf. 

It doesn't make sense on its face. 

 

CC's operations are better than U.S. Steel's, Ohio is objectively a better state for business ops, and the workforce required for CC or USS doesn't require a hive of universities. I don't understand it. 

When has a merger/acquisition ever resulted in the larger company folding into the smaller one? It makes no sense. Although a lot of his thinking and public comments for years haven't really made much sense. 

Edited by PlanCleveland

Again, I would hope that this is posturing for the future and a "wake-up call" for the City and County (along with Team NEO) and State.  There's no way all three bodies let Cleveland-Cliffs just walk without meeting to discuss incentives first.    

Edited by Oldmanladyluck

While I certainly don't want this move to happen I'll play devil's advocate here for a sec:

Does moving the headquarters actually change any of the operations in Cleveland? Or are we talking a few execs and corporate workers move to the USS building in Pittsburgh and we call it a day, then all the existing Cliffs infrastructure in Cleveland just gets renamed USS and the jobs are retained for the most part. Genuinely curious - I have no knowledge of how steel businesses operate lol

Edited by Geowizical

5 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

While I certainly don't want this move to happen I'll play devil's advocate here for a sec:

Does moving the headquarters actually change any of the operations in Cleveland? Or are we talking a few execs and corporate workers move to the USS building in Pittsburgh and we call it a day, then all the existing Cliffs infrastructure in Cleveland just gets renamed USS and the jobs are retained for the most part. Genuinely curious - I have no knowledge of how steel businesses operate lol

Cliffs has no remote or hybrid work option, so their 1000+ HQ office employees are going into 200 Public Square daily. It would really hurt to lose all of them right on Public Square, especially as Sherwin is preparing to open their new offices. 

Edited by PlanCleveland

While I certainly wouldn't prefer Cliffs to leave, I see the reasoning. The US steel name is stronger and to sweeten the deal for regulators, Pennsylvania is way more of a swing state then Ohio. If this deal does happen, I could totally see the HQ being in Pittsburgh unfortunately. Same thing happened when Continental Airlines bought United but the United name was stronger.

Cleveland can't afford to lose another Fortune 500 HQ, especially losing it to Pittsburgh.

9 minutes ago, CleFan said:

While I certainly wouldn't prefer Cliffs to leave, I see the reasoning. The US steel name is stronger and to sweeten the deal for regulators, Pennsylvania is way more of a swing state then Ohio. If this deal does happen, I could totally see the HQ being in Pittsburgh unfortunately. Same thing happened when Continental Airlines bought United but the United name was stronger.

If it's the name they want, couldn't they just change the name to US Steel and stay in Cleveland? Cliffs has 25% higher revenue and 6000 more employees before Nucor takes their parts. Other than a play to get the Ohio and PA to compete on some massive financial incentives, it doesn't make much sense to scrap a company's existing structure to buy a portion of a smaller competitor.

13 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

While I certainly don't want this move to happen I'll play devil's advocate here for a sec:

Does moving the headquarters actually change any of the operations in Cleveland? Or are we talking a few execs and corporate workers move to the USS building in Pittsburgh and we call it a day, then all the existing Cliffs infrastructure in Cleveland just gets renamed USS and the jobs are retained for the most part. Genuinely curious - I have no knowledge of how steel businesses operate lol

As @PlanCleveland noted, the real threat to Cleveland is the downtown workers from their offices in 200 Public Square. This is a potentially huge blow. In football terms, this feels like we may have just thrown a pick six from the red zone. Instead of potentially getting a new office tower, we might be losing one of the largest (if not the largest) tenant in 200 PS. 

They just signed a 10 year lease at 200 Public Square. This is all posturing. They moved all the AK steel employees here if memory serves correctly. US steel lost its brand appeal decades ago. While its uneasy to hear him say this, I can’t imagine him uprooting 1000s of employees in CLE.

He sounds desperate to me and is throwing stuff at the wall to try and get a deal. But lots of companies "move their HQs" and it's their CEO and leadership folks but everyone else stays behind. 

 

I didn't realize how poor their balance sheet was regardless.

I also wonder if theoretically, Cleveland Cliffs Headquarters stays in Cleveland, and US Steel's stays in Pittsburgh. As others have stated, I'm hoping it's posturing as opposed to a complete abandonment of the Cleveland headquarters.

Edited by brownsfan1226

  • Author

Cool....

 

 

pilot-dropping-bomb.jpg

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Cleveland can't afford to lose another Fortune 500 HQ, especially losing it to Pittsburgh.

I think Tremco may be getting added to the F500 at 499, but I share your sentiments 

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