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With all of the moves Cleveland Cliffs is making, acquiring the larger AK-Steel that returned them to Fortune 500 status and now the US operations of ArcelorMittal, it seems reasonable to have a thread dedicated to them -- especially with all of the news and discussion they're creating. There's also lots of debate to be had here, including whether this will mean Cleveland Cliffs moves to Chicago or ArcelorMittal moves its US offices to Cleveland. And if the latter, does that mean that Cleveland finally gets that coveted direct overseas flight to....Luxumbourg???

 

 

 

 

Edited by KJP

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

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  • LlamaLawyer
    LlamaLawyer

    The pessimism is kind of amusing. Here we have a fortune 500 company based in Cleveland since before the civil war, with Cleveland being part of its name, trying to acquire another huge company and pe

  • Sources: If Cliffs + US Steel happens, so does a new HQ By Ken Prendergast / September 26, 2023   Something is happening inside 200 Public Square that isn’t happening at many other downtow

  • Cool, so now I'm opposed to Cliffs acquiring US Steel... Go Nippon! My interests in this were always purely from a Cleveland pride standpoint and now that it seems like this deal is likely to reduce C

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Is there a chance they move their HQ to Chicago? I would certainly hope not. 

^^Yeah, why on earth would Cleveland Cliffs move to Chicago? I believe Cleveland Cliffs has something like 2,000 employees here vs. ArcelorMittal's 250 or so in Chicago. Please don't stress us out so much @KJP. This story looked like a huge win to me, but now you have me worrying. ?

Let's hope that doesn't happen.  But we all remember when BP acquired Amoco and ended up moving to Chicago.

  • Author
2 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

^^Yeah, why on earth would Cleveland Cliffs move to Chicago? I believe Cleveland Cliffs has something like 2,000 employees here vs. ArcelorMittal's 250 or so in Chicago. Please don't stress us out so much @KJP. This story looked like a huge win to me, but now you have me worrying. ?

 

I don't think they would move to Chicago but it would be a fascinating bit of revenge/comeuppance/justice if a Chicago-based employer moved to 200 Public Square rather than from it to Chicago.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

5 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I don't think they would move to Chicago but it would be a fascinating bit of revenge/comeuppance/justice if a Chicago-based employer moved to 200 Public Square rather than from it to Chicago.

Yeah, I wouldn't see how they would leave Cleveland based on this at all. I certainly don't see them going to Luxembourg. Cleveland-Cliffs is only buying the U.S. operations of ArcelorMittal, so the Luxembourg behemoth will carry on in Europe, albeit trimmed down a bit.

 

Also, I believe it's an asset purchase. So, I'd love to see the Chicago folks coming here, but my best guess is the white collar types mostly just get laid off or given preference for a few new job openings here in Cleveland. With all the talk about economize, economize, economize, it's hard for me to believe there won't be substantial net job loss in the ArcelorMittal U.S. operations.

Both the largest US steel and coatings company in the US will be based in Cleveland. Take that Pittsburgh, PPG and USX. 

  • ColDayMan changed the title to Cleveland: Cleveland Cliffs

^Wow, that is a fun claim. 

  • Author

So I'm looking at ArcelorMittal's US operations/employment. This is what they have......

 

Americas' headquarters & sales office - Chicago, Illinois -- 230 employees

Flat carbon sales - Brentwood, Tennessee -- 10 employees

Flat carbon sales - Detroit, Michigan -- 50 employees

Flat carbon sales - The Woodlands, Texas -- NA

Government relations - Washington, D.C. -- NA

R&D center - East Chicago, Indiana -- 100 employees +/-

Regional headquarters - Richfield, Ohio -- 50 employees

Tubular sales - Houston, Texas -- NA

ArcelorMittal Solar Projects (Exosun) - Scottsdale, Arizona -- NA

 

SOURCE: https://usa.arcelormittal.com/our-operations/corporate-and-sales

 

All of their sales offices are close to the concentrations of existing and potential customers. So I don't see any of them going anywhere. Perhaps the R&D Center could be consolidated at East Chicago, Middletown, OH or Cleveland. But the Chicago and Richfield headquarters offices could certainly be consolidated in downtown Cleveland at Cleveland Cliffs' HQ.

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, bwheats said:

Both the largest US steel and coatings company in the US will be based in Cleveland. Take that Pittsburgh, PPG and USX. 

Their football team called the "Little Steelers"?

 

The risk is, of course, that making steel from iron ore is a dead end at US wage rates.  Arguing that it isn't, as Cliffs has been doing, is the market's apparent endorsement of the AK deal.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

53 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Their football team called the "Little Steelers"?

 

The risk is, of course, that making steel from iron ore is a dead end at US wage rates.  Arguing that it isn't, as Cliffs has been doing, is the market's apparent endorsement of the AK deal.

I also think that because of CoVid and supply chains both Democrats and Republicans are pushing to have more things made in the US as a matter of national security. This would bode well for Cleveland Cliffs as they might end up becoming too big to allow to fail.

2 hours ago, Dougal said:

Their football team called the "Little Steelers"?

 

The risk is, of course, that making steel from iron ore is a dead end at US wage rates.  Arguing that it isn't, as Cliffs has been doing, is the market's apparent endorsement of the AK deal.

“He said in an interview that the sale of the U.S. mills has been under consideration since last year, after executives concluded that the inability of the mills to use company-owned iron ore put them at a permanent disadvantage to U.S. competitors with their own ore supplies” ~WSJ

 

Maybe having their own ore source will make plants more viable.

With regards to American made steel, isn't the Cleveland plant the most productive steel mill in the world? I remember that being said after all of the massive upgrades that were made. If so, that seems like a good buy for Cleveland-Cliffs. $1.4B seems really cheap for everything to me. Is it just because I'm use to the massive numbers we see with tech now (ex Tesla), or are industrial assets just that undervalued now days? 

 

I don't see them moving to Chicago, especially after just moving the AK operations here. If we see a name change in the near future, that might be a bad sign, but "Chicago Cliffs" just doesn't have the same ring to it. I hope we see them expanding in 200PS, and would love to see them get the naming rights to the building from Huntington. The three most substantial buildings on the square (SW included) should be for Cleveland companies, by God! A bigger shame to lose Forest City in Terminal Tower, when I think of it that way, having all four for some of the biggest local companies. Regardless, Public Square is making a comeback as the center for corporate Cleveland. 

So when do we get a Cleveland Cliffs Skyscraper?  We have a couple empty lots in the warehouse district they could fill.   

 

Or will Stark sign them on to the original nuCLEus Tower?  ? ?

Hopefully they can use some of that savings to put in better emmsission control systems at their Cleveland plants.

This is a huge deal and I hope they consolidate downtown. I think one spinoff effect of the SHW deal is that these giant companies see how the city is willing to work with you if you’re establishing something that significant here. Now maybe an expanded Cleveland Cliffs HQ wouldn’t be as big as an SHW, but it could still have a huge impact. I hope they consolidate here and do something cool

@KJP were they one of the companies considering a new downtown HQ?

  • Author
4 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

@KJP were they one of the companies considering a new downtown HQ?

 

No, but that might be changing. We'll see. 

Edited by KJP

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

No, but that might be changing. We'll see. 

Is that what you’re hearing?

After a bunch of major steel company purchases in the last year or so it is difficult to predict what the rightsizing of the corporate offices should be.  That is likely being discussed internally now. There is plenty of vacancy of office space so there are options aplenty. I would expect any buzz to begin now and probably have a sense by the end of the year if they are looking to make some moves or build anew.  

  They very well could come to the same conclusion that SHW came to in that they need to consolidate in a modern new urban campus or perhaps they need a towering steel building. Who knows. 

 

  

8 hours ago, KJP said:

 

No, but that might be changing. We'll see. 

 

Not to be the bearer of bad tidings - because this is all A+ news... 

 

But I have a law school buddy at Cliffs and he said they still need to grow into their current space at 200, which has been a point of discussion during Covid anyways. 

Midwestern steelworkers are, shall we say, a coveted demographic in this year's Presidential election scrum, so I foresee plenty of pandering in their direction from both podiums this evening.  If even half of the promises (I know, I know) from the victor in November come true, then Cliffs will be occupying a pretty sweet political and strategic spot in national life for the next four years.  Considering how much uncertainty there is economy-wide, that's great news for Cliffs and good news for Cleveland.

Edited by Down_with_Ctown

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-28/cliffs-ceo-says-focus-after-arcelormittal-deal-is-emissions
 

Some good tidbits in this. Eco friendly steel as a concept had never occurred to me. I’m guessing that’s true for most people. But if Cleveland Cliffs can make the concept well known and the steel affordable, how can electric car companies justify not buying it? These two moves may represent Cleveland Cliffs’s opening salvo at creating and cornering a brand new speciality market. If so, hats off to them.

Combining the revenues from the 3 companies we get 18.3 billion which would be 177 on the fortune 500. Even taking out 2 billion in revenue at 16.3 billion they are exactly number 200.  The first scenario would make them the 2 largest fortune 500 company headquartered in NEO and the second scenario would make them the 3rd (unfortunately FE and Goodyear have dropped down a decent bit over the years).

 

AK Steel ~ 6.3 billion

Cleveland Cliffs ~ 2 billion

AM USA ~ 10 billion

Total 18.3 billion

 

 

NEO Fortune 1000

Lincoln Electric - 949

Hyster Yale - 783

PolyOne - 734

Aleris - 724

Apllied Ind. Tech - 715

Medical Mutual - 695

Timken - 661

Diebold - 607

TransDigm - 513

RPM - 508

Travel Centers - 480

KeyCorp - 411

J.M. Smucker - 407

First Energy - 294

Parker Hannefin - 224 

Goodyear - 216 (14.745 billion)

Sherwin Williams - 180 (17.9 billion)

Progressive - 86 (39.02 billion)

 

 

 

Edited by cle_guy90

  • KJP changed the title to Cleveland: Cleveland-Cliffs
  • Author

200+Public+Square-Cliffs-Aug2019.jpg

 

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 3, 2020

Could Cliffs' acquisitions bring another downtown tower?

 

When you look at several critical aspects behind Cleveland-Cliffs Inc.'s recent acquisitions of AK Steel and ArcelorMittal USA, you can see how it's possible, if not probable, that Cliffs won't be a tenant of 200 Public Square for much longer.

 

The critical aspects behind the acquisitions include the post-assimilation staffing needs of the combined company measured against the office space vacancies in Cliffs' headquarters building. The data for populating this equation were gathered from online sources and by interviewing Cliffs staffpersons, real estate brokers and others familiar with Cliffs and its acquired companies.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/10/could-cliffs-acquisitions-bring-another.html

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^Good analysis. It sounds like a candidate for a tower at Nucleus. 

Great article! One minor correction is Progressive is headquartered in Mayfield so Cleveland Cliffs could potentially be the largest company headquartered in Cleveland or the second largest in Cuyahoga or Cleveland MSA behind Progressive. 

Edited by cle_guy90

Ah I didn't know ArcelorMittal had offices in Richfield. As an urbanist, Richfield is the biggest personal insult around. I look forward to those jobs (and hopefully many many more) moving to Cleveland.

  • 1 month later...
  • Author

Cleveland-Cliffs to acquire six short lines

 

Cleveland-Cliffs Inc. last week notified the Surface Transportation Board (STB) that the mining company intends to acquire control of six short lines owned by ArcelorMittal USA LLC.

 

The short lines are Brandywine Valley Railroad Co., Steelton & Highspire Railroad Co., Lake Michigan & Indiana Railroad Co., Upper Merion & Plymouth Railroad Co., Cleveland Works Railway Inc. and South Chicago & Indiana Harbor Railway Co.

 

MORE

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/m_a/news/Cleveland-Cliffs-to-acquire-six-short-lines--62043

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

37 minutes ago, KJP said:

The short lines are Brandywine Valley Railroad Co., Steelton & Highspire Railroad Co., Lake Michigan & Indiana Railroad Co., Upper Merion & Plymouth Railroad Co., Cleveland Works Railway Inc. and South Chicago & Indiana Harbor Railway Co.

 

Those names sounded promising, but based on past comments you've made and a little research it does not appear that either the Brandywine Valley or Cleveland Works lines provide a gateway for the Cuyahoga Valley Railroad to connect with an RTA station.  Dang.

1 hour ago, Foraker said:

 

Those names sounded promising, but based on past comments you've made and a little research it does not appear that either the Brandywine Valley or Cleveland Works lines provide a gateway for the Cuyahoga Valley Railroad to connect with an RTA station.  Dang.

 

Brandywine Valley Railroad is in Pennsylvania. But Ken's past comments re: Cliffs and Cleveland Works Railway were certainly exciting to read.

 

If the CVSR terminated at the B&O Station on Canal Rd, It'd be a short walk from Settler's Landing Station. That would be a lot more compelling with a downtown loop given that it's the waterfront line.

  • Author

@Foraker @infrafreak Although Cleveland Works Railway (aka CROW) doesn't currently operate to downtown, it might if CSX sells its valley line from Independence to downtown. 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 2 weeks later...

Cleveland Business Journal  Cleveland-Cliffs clears antitrust hurdle on its way to acquiring ArcelorMittal USA

 

"Cleveland-Cliffs Inc. has received antitrust clearance from the Federal Trade Commission for its proposed $1.4 billion cash and stock acquisition of ArcelorMittal USA"

  • 2 weeks later...

And a warm welcome to Cleveland's newest Fortune 500 company. I look forward to them following through with Goncalves's plans for sustainability and going carbon neutral.

2 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

And a warm welcome to Cleveland's newest Fortune 500 company. I look forward to them following through with Goncalves's plans for sustainability and going carbon neutral.

I thought they would end up #2 after Progressive, but Sherwin Williams huge sales gain this year will make Cliffs #3 in town.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

An integrated steel mill will never be carbon neutral on the basis that it's taking raw material (pig iron, coke (baked coal), limestone and other materials), consuming massive amounts of energy, and shaping the product in an intensive process. The company can green the terms as much as possible but at the end of the day, it'll never have "green" facilities. "Mini" mills - using scrap metal to create new items, require massive amounts of electricity as well.

3 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

And a warm welcome to Cleveland's newest Fortune 500 company. I look forward to them following through with Goncalves's plans for sustainability and going carbon neutral.

I'm not a marketing expert, particularly in large B2B supply chain transactions, but I would think the sustainability plan (though I don't think it's really carbon neutral) could be a huge asset for Cliffs if they focus on it. Assuming they become the lowest carbon emission per pound of steel supplier out there (which it sounds like they have a plan for), they should guilt every auto manufacturer out there into buying from them. Most auto manufacturers are lasered in on lowering CO2 emissions over the next couple decades, but the carbon footprint of a car is pretty big even if it's totally electric. Seems like Cleveland Cliffs could capitalize on that message and corner a large part of the market.

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Going to want to catch Real Money this evening.

  • 1 month later...

I love the company, but I like the stock.

 

Sorry, had to do it.

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