I'm honestly still amazed that so much stuff is being proposed and started this coming summer. Materials are so out of wack and unpredictable at the moment. To the extend that some projects aren't even able to get quotes on materials, they are paying market price the moment the truck shows up on the job site. And you better hope you ordered enough, because it can be 6+ months until you can get another delivery. 

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

What? I'm confused. Seems like with the new and cheaper version this building was being sorta fast tracked. But now it may have to wait for another round of TMUD credits because of the rising cost of construction materials? 

 

In re-reading the previous comments l don't really see how that happened. Went from trying to get on the next Planning Commission agenda to being postponed due to the high cost of construction. That's alota conflicting info squeezed into a short timeframe. And yes, why bother fencing off the site if nothing is going to happen for awhile?

 

Whole thing seems odd to me.

I think a lot of us are confused.  Rereading the last NEO TRANS article, it was pretty clear that the project had recalculated costs, downsized to the extent they thought they would need  and planned to move forward rather promptly.  Now, it appears that they miscalculated potential costs.  I mean, inflation has been a problem for months and things couldn't have changed that much in three weeks - could they? 

Today we got a Neo Trans bomb without warning - just not a good one.  Hopefully, the story is still being written - but I'm certainly not optimistic based on today's thread on the subject. 

 

OK, let's boil this down... After Bridgeworks missed out on the TMUD, they rolled out their revised plan that trimmed costs. It apparently had been redesigned as an option just in case it didn't get the TMUD since the new design came out very soon thereafter. I was told if Bridgeworks could get the revised design to Landmarks by their second March meeting, they had a shot of getting construction under way as early as May. That's what my article said. It was a possibility but I emphasized it was only a possibility, not a certainty. The reason was another source on the development team wasn't so sure the revised design would save enough money or if more financing was in the cards. He had no way to know since the GC couldn't lock in a construction cost for longer than six months. But getting construction started by the start of Summer may still be a possibility if a construction cost that pencils can be locked in for a year, or if a new source of revenue is secured.

 

There is no bomb here. Nothing has changed. The story was that a revised plan was developed. I shared that plan along with the developer's hope that they could get construction underway this spring. All of that is still the case. Even if they get a favorable contract locked in or some extra financing, none of that guarantees anything either. A million things can still go wrong. Sh!t happens. When it does, so what? We didn't lose anything. On to the next project deadline, the next project design or the next project altogether.

^What you appear to be saying is that different members of the same development team are, in the best scenario, not on the same page, or in the worst, at odds with one another.  Call me crazy but that cannot be a good sign in terms of smoothly moving forward.

19 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

^What you appear to be saying is that different members of the same development team are, in the best scenario, not on the same page, or in the worst, at odds with one another.  Call me crazy but that cannot be a good sign in terms of smoothly moving forward.

 

What I believe KJP is saying, is that the project is going to move forward at some point.  It all depends on the roadblocks and hurdles that the project may have to overcome.  This may include altering the project or projected completion timeframes. 

 

32 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

^What you appear to be saying is that different members of the same development team are, in the best scenario, not on the same page, or in the worst, at odds with one another.  Call me crazy but that cannot be a good sign in terms of smoothly moving forward.

 

It's true that some are more optimistic than others. Like everyone else, I don't know what that means in terms of outcomes.

 

12 minutes ago, superior said:

 

What I believe KJP is saying, is that the project is going to move forward at some point.  It all depends on the roadblocks and hurdles that the project may have to overcome.  This may include altering the project or projected completion timeframes. 

 

 

No, I almost never make predictions of whether something will or will not happen. I have no way of knowing. Life is an endless series of surprises.

No project is a certainty until ground is broken - and even then who knows what can happen. Let’s remember City Club- with its numerous false starts and hypothetical groundbreakings- it has finally started and is full steam ahead. We love to speculate here but the truth is no project is a certainty. I think we just need to wait and see what happens, and hopefully it will all work out and proceed in the end! These are experienced developers that have brought projects to fruition. I feel optimistic. 

The new design and new demolition is on Landmarks April 14th agenda.  It is for conceptual review and not final approval.  It will be interesting to see if the developers have anything to say regarding a time table as part of their presentation.

16 hours ago, Htsguy said:

The new design and new demolition is on Landmarks April 14th agenda.  It is for conceptual review and not final approval.  It will be interesting to see if the developers have anything to say regarding a time table as part of their presentation.

This is awesome 

1 hour ago, osu4brutus03 said:

This is awesome 

 

Remains to be seen. The developers are motivated. We'll see how motivated.

And now there's privacy screening all along the construction fence

38 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Remains to be seen. The developers are motivated. We'll see how motivated.

They seem very motivated seeing how the area is already blocked off 

1 minute ago, Clefan98 said:

And now there's privacy screening all along the construction fence

Their not playing around 

Bridgeworks has been removed from the Landmarks agenda today at developers request. Looking at May 12 for its return.

 

🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

Funny seeing David Bowen in the meeting though

Although not presented they still showed what was going to be presented, I’d say looking through the concepts it’s relatively unclear what it would look like in real life

The first imagine showing the green not being as obvious and being more glassy and the other showing the green being very bold like the cartoon concept we saw before

Looks like the color palette is a little more subtle. The yellow is gone.  Looks much better. 

I really have not been that crazy in love with any of the multiple designs presented.  I was happy that they did drop the first massing which loomed over the church.  I am more than happy to accept an average design because I believe it is important to develop this corner.  Yes I am settling (and many of you love the design...I understand that...that is what makes the world go round), but I do that with many projects I personally believe can be done better since my hope is down the road they fosters more development in the area and hopefully better quality when those with deeper pockets don't consider the neighborhood such a risk due to the pioneering projects.

I really like the design. It’s unique and reminds me of a scaled down version of the downtown Hilton. It complements the Quarter well, too. 

I really like the design. It’s unique and reminds me of a scaled down version of the downtown Hilton. It complements the Quarter well, too. 

Makes the quarter look tiny, Snavely really should have added a parking deck starting on the second floor to get some more height like church and state did. Also that way they wouldn’t need their parking lots, another missed opportunity.

That being said I’m glad this developer is zero surface lot minded

Ugly

FLAT MONOLITH: As much of a void in the landscape as what's already there.

 

I agree that it is ugly, but not in that lovable kind of way.  Bridgeworks mostly just gives an impression that it got dropped there by mistake.
The entire most visible side of the building facing towards our new park and and the surrounding community looks like the back-side of this structure.

 

While viewing the Bridgeworks design, my mind keeps going to a similarly "absent building in a landscape" on Ashland Street in Chicago outside of Wicker Park.

It too shows none of the contributing characteristics that bring human scale, energy or visual vitality to the surrounding community. It subtracts rather than adds to the sense of place. 

 

The image above presented by Bridgeworks, developers shows cars rushing off of the Veterans' Memorial Bridge at the speed of a blur. 
It's an appropriate rendering of what to expect too. There's nothing to slow down for and see at street level in the Bridgeworks design. 
- "Just keep moving. Don't get caught by that light on 25th!"  

 

IMO there's nothing worse than to say a concept is boring, but Bridgework as shown so far is indeed a bore.  - I wouldn't invite it to the party. 

 

Edited April 14, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

3 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

There's nothing to slow down for and see at street level in the Bridgeworks design.

 

Isn't there street level retail both in the smaller building and all in the main floor of the tall building for Bridgework? They all face W25th or Superior Viaduct Rd which makes the most sense because the other side is a bridge that is above street level for most of it. 

 

I would like to see Bridgeworks more nestled up in the corner directly off the sidewalk of W25th & Detroit to help a connected look between the rest of Hingetown and itself but I don't think ground level presence is something to worry about. 

51 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

 

 

Edited April 15, 20223 yr by marty15

……..

4 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

FLAT MONOLITH: As much of a void in the landscape as what's already there.

 

I agree that it is ugly, but not in that lovable kind of way.  Bridgeworks mostly just gives an impression that it got dropped there by mistake.
The entire most visible side of the building facing towards our new park and and the surrounding community looks like the back-side of this structure.

 

While viewing the Bridgeworks design, my mind keeps going to a similarly "absent building in a landscape" on Ashland Street in Chicago outside of Wicker Park.

It too shows none of the contributing characteristics that bring human scale, energy or visual vitality to the surrounding community. It subtracts rather than adds to the sense of place. 

 

The image above presented by Bridgeworks, developers shows cars rushing off of the Veterans' Memorial Bridge at the speed of a blur. 
It's an appropriate rendering of what to expect too. There's nothing to slow down for and see at street level in the Bridgeworks design. 
- "Just keep moving. Don't get caught by that light on 25th!"  

 

IMO there's nothing worse than to say a concept is boring, but Bridgework as shown so far is indeed a bore.  - I wouldn't invite it to the party. 

 

I couldn’t disagree more. It’s the first open and welcoming presence as you exit downtown. It’s an easy transition from Stonebridge to the Quarter and Church & State. It actually makes an effort to open itself towards Detroit.

And if Viaduct tower happens, this will all blend beautifully.

It's ugly. Please don't build. Thank you. 

 

Bridgeworks design to be re-refined
By Ken Prendergast / April 15, 2022

 

Development team members of a proposed high rise in Cleveland’s Ohio City neighborhood are going back to the drawing board again. While this redesign may be less significant than the last one, done to bring Bridgeworks’ costs in line with available financing, its impact on the residential-hotel-retail project’s $60+ million budget is not yet known.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/04/15/bridgeworks-design-to-be-re-refined/

Sorry, but I don’t think there’s anything THAT special about the garage - it’s a garage - don’t overthink things! But change is hard for a lot of people. 

 

But, in this particular case maybe one more redesign of Bridgeworks might actually help the end result if they can keep it on budget.

 

Just don’t wanna lose this significant project because of too much b.s. before it starts…

Yeah, this is a little tricky. Any more changes plus time may end up scuttling the whole thing. Personally I liked the original version much better than this one. Too bad the project didn't get the TMUD credit. That would have solved everything.

 

That corner is too prominent to build a cheap version of something because the more expensive version was cost prohibitive. If it was up to me I'd rather wait for the better product. With all the growth in the immediate area I think it's only a (short) matter of time until that location can justify a better quality and yes, more expensive version rather than waste it on something cheap. 

If (and that’s a big if) this can stay on budget I definitely think this is a plus. I look at this as something similar to the townhomes from Brickhaus that had that beautiful design in I believe Lakewood because they incorporated the historic churches materials into their design.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

If (and that’s a big if) this can stay on budget I definitely think this is a plus. I look at this as something similar to the townhomes from Brickhaus that had that beautiful design in I believe Lakewood because they incorporated the historic churches materials into their design.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This never actually happened tho. I think all they ended up saving was the little cupola from the top of the roof.

I hope this project folds and land goes to another developer

This never actually happened tho. I think all they ended up saving was the little cupola from the top of the roof.

The point wasn’t about the project happening the point was about the quality of design.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

9 hours ago, ogibbigo said:

I hope this project folds and land goes to another developer

How many years are you willing to wait for that to happen? How long has the site been dormant before this development? Just because the area may be hot right now doesn’t mean that a developer with deep pockets will automatically come in.  The reworked design of the building may not look like something designed by I.M. Pei, but it’s something different in a changing neighborhood.

The stone structure facing the sidewalk, while not a masterpiece of Art-deco, is at least visually interesting to gaze at. It has rhythm. - This building is not bashful about asking you to look at it for more than just a passing second. It's obvious that those who designed it gave serious consideration to its context, and because of that it has a story to tell about our town. It doesn't match, but does harmonize with the bridge somewhat rather than rejecting it outright. It offers something of interest for anyone who happens to be near it.

 

Do we need an ornate Beaux-arts tower here?  - No. 

Do we need a dystopian cereal box; a building that resembles the slapdash landscape from a child's video game?  - Also no.

 

The people of Cleveland and Ohio City deserve more than the butt-side of a building, and it's okay to ask.

We shouldn't seek for this developer to fail.  We want our entire community to win.

Developers and designers, please bring your A-game long-term vision to our neighborhoods, not just to your bankers.

 

My own rule for historic preservation is that its okay to tear something down, but only to replace it with something as-good or better.  - In this case, don't replace a painting with a mirror.

 

 

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

@marty15

When I examine your highlighted image, I find that the sum is no greater than the parts.

 

The planned tower doesn't offer beautiful views for those looking up at it from the soon-to-be elegant Irishtown Bend Park or downtown. Instead, it more strangely seems to block a view. 

 

- How odd not to celebrate the obvious opportunity of visibility for miles around by not place something of style or interest on the south elevation of the tower; something that offers even the minimum of attraction to the eye.  Add a south-facing balcony to the party-level, with a view over the city (or something) to break up that glum featureless mass, and I will be pleased. So too will be those who pass and see this tower daily.

 

I disagree that the single most distinguishing detail in the artist's rendering should be the clunky window washing gondola on the roof, riding above the exposed elevator shaft. How about a flag? -  or three? 
Does it harm the success of Cleveland projects to add some flair, or to disguise unsightly maintenance hardware from prominent views?

 

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

• Bridgeworks, an Ohio City project where developers will use a $223,500 grant to help fund asbestos abatement and demolition. The site, at West 25th Street and Detroit Avenue, is earmarked for apartments, a hotel, parking and retail space.

 

 

Some newer renderings! The changes aren't too big since the last rendition, but here you go:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2v5ustca2gjr120/AAAmofK6zvZFQyP1dj3L2kSda/Bridgeworks?dl=0&lst=&preview=220505+Bridgeworks+OCDR+Submission.pdf

Still not a fan of that shade of green, but that type of thing is nothing but subjective on my part... 

I like it!  Our skyline needs more color as much as it needs more density.  

I'm sold. Do it yesterday.

55 minutes ago, OldEnough said:

I like it!  Our skyline needs more color as much as it needs more density.  

 

Totally agree - just because I don't personally like the color it's much better than a grey or a brown or something 'safe'. It's a bit harsh and the kid was kind of a jerk but something that stuck with me was a kid visiting from nyc, who after driving them around downtown, said it felt like soviet design with all the beige and brown, etc. One of the cool things about going to bigger cities is seeing all the different variations in styles, colors, etc. - glad that Euclid is getting the City Club Apts, and now this here. I hope Landmarks and other boards full of architectural critics allow more different designs going forward.

I still don't understand the top part.  

I think it’s an improvement, but my knee jerk impression - it’s the offspring of the Beacon and the  Cuyahoga County Administration building.