I believe the Hilton Motto is still part of the project. The redesign kept that use in the mix. 

The hotel is out of the project. I was informed last week

3 hours ago, zbaris87 said:

The hotel is out of the project. I was informed last week

So does that mean more apartments? Or a smaller building and another redesign...

More apartments, same design 

On 7/9/2024 at 12:47 PM, Htsguy said:

I understand your points and pretty much agree.  The problem I have with this project is that even "generic" can be done so much better than this.  We have evidence of this all over town.  I just don't know that this design is "inoffensive enough in person to fade into the background".  Of course, who knows at this point since it is just a rendering and remains unbuilt.  The bigger issue in my mind is that this is one of the most prominent intersections in the city of Cleveland, so it is not a great spot for a building we would want to fade into the background.  And again, if we have to accept "generic" at this location, can't we at least get "better generic".  I am sure their are some talented architects out there that can figure it out.

 

It will be interested to see what Landmarks has to say.

 

Can you provide some examples?

5 hours ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

Can you provide some examples?

Obviously subjective but I would include as some examples Waterford Bluffs, Medley, Treo and the Boliva Rd Apartments.   I would even include a very attractive building like Driftwood Apartments in Tremont, even with its high end rents, as the design is not that complicated and it is a basic one by X with wood framing.

Edited July 24, 2024Jul 24 by Htsguy

On 7/24/2024 at 10:18 AM, Htsguy said:

Obviously subjective but I would include as some examples Waterford Bluffs, Medley, Treo and the Boliva Rd Apartments.   I would even include a very attractive building like Driftwood Apartments in Tremont, even with its high end rents, as the design is not that complicated and it is a basic one by X with wood framing.

 

"Design isn't that complicated". 😂   If it wasn't that complicated don't you think everyone would be doing it?
Sounds like a client mindset.
FYI, I guarantee those are all well over what the Geis project will cost.

Snippets so far from Bridgeworks presentation at Landmarks:

 

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by Geowizical

A missed opportunity once again done Cleveland-styte.

4 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

A missed opportunity once again done Cleveland-styte.

Cuyahoga-style. It is the county that selected these bozos. Maybe they can take the property back and issue a new RFP

To note: comments from landmarks have been generally positive this time around - staff report commended the direction of the project and the addressing past comments and said it was a good improvement on the previous iterations. Public space design at the corner of 25th and Detroit was commended. Question was raised about the programming of the former ticket stall and how it could be activated instead of just "being there" in the middle of the project. Comment was made about how to better activate the ground floor to make it more unique instead of flat facades. Comments about the materials varied - some wanted less dark gray and more white, some wanted less contrasting white and more gray. More brick was a general theme. Comment was made about how given how huge the building footprint is, the flat top and consistent roofline could be studied further to make it more visually interesting.

 

No action taken, just a review presentation for feedback.

Who knows but they might have gotten off easy today as a number of the commission members who are architects were absent 

This is quite a strange angle 

That angle makes me like it even less. 

1 minute ago, CleveFan said:

That angle makes me like it even less. 

Same and in a way the main angle it’ll be viewed from. The smaller structure on the right I feel like needs a green roof or something looks pretty out of place 

I think it needs more materials types.

9 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Same and in a way the main angle it’ll be viewed from. The smaller structure on the right I feel like needs a green roof or something looks pretty out of place 

Something was mentioned about reexamining the short building on the right and how it interacts with the other buildings. I unfortunately didn't catch what was said however.

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by Geowizical

Oh dear lord no wonder nothing gets done. Just build something. Why do people who have no direct financial stake in the property have soooo many roadblocks to progress???

The pickleball courts are an interesting touch. Not what I would have put there, but points for uniqueness. 

I would suggest losing the whitish facade sections and extending the center facade out on each side to replace the white parts.  The white to me is the proverbial sore thumb.

7 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said:

I would suggest losing the whitish facade sections and extending the center facade out on each side to replace the white parts.  The white to me is the proverbial sore thumb.

If the white wasn’t there, I’d think it was a sharp plain looking building.

40 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Same and in a way the main angle it’ll be viewed from. The smaller structure on the right I feel like needs a green roof or something looks pretty out of place 

 

2401 West Superior was there first. That's the existing Boxcast Building.

 

Even though Bridgeworks is shorter, I thought it would be as tall as Stonebridge condos considering it's up the hill a bit. I'm disappointed to see it is noticeably smaller.

49 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

This is quite a strange angle 

Wow this is so bad good lord. 

The white material has a pretty interesting texture. I'd take more of this over the flat gray panels.

 

Just do it all in red brick and it’ll look fantastic. Add black windows and you’re done. 

36 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Just do it all in red brick and it’ll look fantastic. Add black windows and you’re done. 

Seriously. Just continue the theme of the Stonebridge buildings if this is what they're presenting. There are good ways to make one big building look like multiple buildings, which appears to be what they're going for. But this design is not one of them. 

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by PlanCleveland

34 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

Seriously. Just continue the theme of the Stonebridge buildings if this is what they're presenting. There are good ways to make one big building look like multiple buildings, which appears to be what they're going for. But this design is not one of them. 

Unfortunately the stonebridge building fascade is changing too. Our design committee made an...interesting choice for the colors of the new fascade project starting this summer. I'm not happy about it lol. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

2401 West Superior was there first. That's the existing Boxcast Building.

Ah okay good catch the matching brick threw me off seemed like all the buildings out of scope were white 

10 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

Unfortunately the stonebridge building fascade is changing too. Our design committee made an...interesting choice for the colors of the new fascade project starting this summer. I'm not happy about it lol. 

Oh no…. does a change like that not go to the planning common for the city. Just trying to think of ways it could be shot down 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

2401 West Superior was there first. That's the existing Boxcast Building.

 

Even though Bridgeworks is shorter, I thought it would be as tall as Stonebridge condos considering it's up the hill a bit. I'm disappointed to see it is noticeably smaller.

It's not a bad looking building....just not on this site.  

I hate it still, but at least the fakey texture-free faux French "mansard" roof with the verdigris colored finish is gone.

That element would have been a long term architectural embarrassment for sure. - I feel seen, lol.

 

Also, the image below is a similar visual statement, styled with 10 times the visual grace & dignity, in suburban Cleveland Hts.

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by ExPatClevGuy

Maybe not the most inspired design but this looks absolutely fine.

I think it needs more....oh never mind. We got a building. 

 

Yeah.

 

Bridgeworks design evolves again – minus hotel
By Ken Prendergast / July 25, 2024

 

An ever-changing lending market has caused designs to change again for the proposed Bridgeworks development, 2429 W. Superior in Cleveland’s Ohio City neighborhood. Some things were noticeably different in the plans — no hotel, no retail/restaurants, a big increase in the number of apartments, and a variety of colors and materials in the façade which, at first glance, makes the long building look like five or six structures.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/25/bridgeworks-design-evolves-again-minus-hotel/

21 hours ago, TheCOV said:

Oh dear lord no wonder nothing gets done. Just build something. Why do people who have no direct financial stake in the property have soooo many roadblocks to progress???

 

You do realize where you are, right? The SHW thread has 2034 pages of opinions and photos.

 

Edit: Also re: roadblocks - you've got the previous landmarks commission chair Julie Trott to blame for a lot of this. Creating a building wall is inappropriate for a city! 

 

Look what she took from us: 

Edited July 26, 2024Jul 26 by GISguy

Just build it. I am losing track of all the changes. Is this Iteration 4 or 5 ?

So much focus is being placed on the exterior design, when it seems to me like the far bigger story is the removal of everything commercial from the design. It's now just apartments. No hotel, no retail, no restaurants. 

 

The weirdest thing is the pickleball courts. That space seems perfect for a restaurant. It's an unusual amenity. I know it's the it thing right now, but I still doubt the majority of the residents will utilize the space. I suppose it's a bit better if it's publicly accessible in some way, but I can't convince myself this is the best use of this space. 

I actually have no problem with the way it looks, except that I wish it was about double the height. 

49 minutes ago, Ethan said:

So much focus is being placed on the exterior design, when it seems to me like the far bigger story is the removal of everything commercial from the design. It's now just apartments. No hotel, no retail, no restaurants. 

 

The weirdest thing is the pickleball courts. That space seems perfect for a restaurant. It's an unusual amenity. I know it's the it thing right now, but I still doubt the majority of the residents will utilize the space. I suppose it's a bit better if it's publicly accessible in some way, but I can't convince myself this is the best use of this space. 

 

The four ground-floor apartments (below a garage!) also are surprising. It shows how difficult the developers expect a restaurant or other commercial space would be there.

Its fine just build it.

But i really cant wait for this trend of different color facades to go away. Its lasted much longer then it should have.
 

I would have expected a restaurant/bar space similar to Pioneer at the Intro. Kind of wild there isn't at least a simple cafe space on the plaza area. Maybe the old ticket booth can be used as a coffee hut or something?

No more commercial space at all?

sigh … ok, this new cheap facade is actually … better? obviously they won’t change the basic design again, so i’ll take the goofy ugly facade look over the previous just plain ugly any day.

 

we all know its going to fill up instantly regardless, so thats good.

 

alright time to build, get cracking. 😂💥

I think it looks fine, but I hate that it doesn't include units with balconies. Huge miss there given that it's in such a scenic location.

^ yeah that & rooftop amenities. two of many big fails here, but oh well they wore us all down and its time to get building. it will be successful so alright.

These sorts of bad designs are an attempt at an answer to what to do with all the massive, block-wide "groundscrapers" (my term) that modern development economics keeps pushing on us for the last few decades.  There are other answers, of course, but none of them are perfect either.  The groundscraper is just so out of proportion to the human scale, and at the ground floor where it matters most.

23 hours ago, Geowizical said:

To note: comments from landmarks have been generally positive this time around

Comical to read this after them being one of the main reasons we’re still looking at designs (that are much worse!) and not a building. 

16 hours ago, KJP said:

 

The four ground-floor apartments (below a garage!) also are surprising. It shows how difficult the developers expect a restaurant or other commercial space would be there.

 

Why on earth would they expect the most popular and attractive corner in Cleveland to be difficult?

 

Edited July 26, 2024Jul 26 by ASP1984

Caddy corner on Detroit and 25th has had several dining concepts come and go. Ohio City Galley failed in that location before COVID. Following that Sauce the City Galley also tried and failed in that location. 
 

And I hate to be this guy, but although it’s a busy intersection and the lakefront trail empties out right there, it’s a car-centric intersection and doesn’t feel great as a pedestrian. The Shoreway is allegedly a boulevard, but the design of the area still feels like you’re standing next to a highway exit.
 

That means you probably can’t expect a lot of foot traffic to those restaurants without a lot more residential density or (yuck) easy parking options. Unlike Hingetown that corner doesn’t enjoy very much street parking, unless you want to walk around the corner from the flats or try your luck on the viaduct. 

 

And remember, nearby Hingetown, still has several notably vacant storefronts, Let’s French and the might-have-been an oyster bar. Did the brewery find a new tenant yet? I think the grocery on Detroit also closed recently as well. 
 

I think we are getting there with density, but we realistically already have more retail storefronts than that specific corner of the neighborhood can support. It’s disappointing but doesn’t feel very surprising that Bridgeworks wouldn’t place a bet on retail or dining. 

 

 

Very great points @Henke. I walk this stretch almost daily and it is surprising how many retail efforts come and go so I am not surprised about their comments here regarding retail being difficult. Catty-corner to this I have seen that storefront sit vacant for years. I thought there was a rumor a Cilantro Taqueria was going in but that was earlier this year and haven't heard a peep on it. 

 

The would-be oyster bar still is sitting dormant half finished on the inside (they have some studs up that's it) and it's been that way all year. That "Let's French" spot under Church + State has been empty ever since I've seen it years ago. Seems even W29th has some rotations of the smaller storefronts other than the few mainstays. The brewery attached to Co-Hatch is supposed to be a Royal Docks but I haven't seen any work being done on it but that is certainly a more recent announcement so I'm hopefully we see movement soon. 

 

I will say there have been a few bright spots in the few years I lived over this way. Seeing how successful new places like Lekko Coffee, Amba, Alea, and even those weird huts for City Goods. All have been opened within the last few years and seem to be doing great. I think we just need more density in the immediate area and that will allow for more businesses to thrive. Parking is not plentiful here so I'm sure it dissuades a lot of people further away from coming here for retail on a more regular basis. But with more apartments like Bridgeworks and that one potentially going in on the former Saucy Vibe Garden space, I would expect retailers to follow.