Maybe we'll get lucky and the whole thing gets called off. We wait a bit, rates come down, matetial prices come down making a mid-rise practical again and we get a neat design. I'm certainly willing to wait.

14 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

What is most frustrating aspects of Bridgeworks is that there were some actual great designs that were passed on because of the landmarks commission input/disagreements.  With approvals consistently denied it pushed the timeline of construction into the covid building costs and increased interest rates. Hence Geis was brought in and a value engineered design happens.  I will wait to hear what the landmarks commission feels about the latest plans.  Will they send more adjustments beyond what Ohio City Design Review just asked for?  

 

I am curious what iteration of all the past designs would you have chosen to build? You can include the Geis design as an option.

My choice would have been the first high rise design that was brick

I don’t think the feedback from Landmarks, etc. pushed the timeline back. Inability to get financing organized, including going for and missing a TMUD, has way more to do with the ultimate ineffectiveness of this particular development team. 

 

Bridgeworks – one more review ’til they’re through?

By Ken Prendergast / September 23, 2024

 

It’s been said before — many times; many ways. No, not “Merry Christmas.” But “We hope this is the final design for Bridgeworks.” And the Bridgeworks development team hopes to start site preparations by the end of next month with construction to follow — perhaps by the time chestnuts are roasting on an open fire at Christmas, by the way.

 

MORE: 

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/23/bridgeworks-one-more-review-til-theyre-through/

3 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

I'm hearing rumors that they will put a 10ft tall pig statue out front like Skyline did with the dog.

Maybe they can repurpose the sculpture Dion Art envisoned for the Green Goat and place on the roof.

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/03/24/from-kyiv-to-cleveland-art-firm-hq-moves/

 

2 minutes ago, Willo said:

Maybe they can repurpose the sculpture Dion Art envisoned for the Green Goat and place on the roof.

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/03/24/from-kyiv-to-cleveland-art-firm-hq-moves/

 

even better at night can you imagine 😀

Edited September 23, 2024Sep 23 by Willo

Might be controversial here but I like the north side of the project at least. I think it fits seamlessly into the rest of the buildings on the viaduct rd. 

 

1 hour ago, dwolfi01 said:

Might be controversial here but I like the north side of the project at least. I think it fits seamlessly into the rest of the buildings on the viaduct rd. 

 

 

thats true, it is a lot better (although the uniformly flat/unused roof line is oddly way out of style).

 

if only the highly visible gateway side was that tepidly varied and just ok.

8 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

Wow. How....disappointing. This wouldn't fly in a city that actually respected itself. 

There are garbage developments in every city in the United States. I live in LA and there’s questionable stuff going up all over the place. As I have pointed out many times on this forum - people keep repeating the same tired tropes - this is not a Cleveland specific problem.  

I suggest people get out a little more and look at some other cities and the good, the bad and the ugly that’s being put up in these towns as well. 

Once again I feel this site is too important to end up with such a poor design.  I was remembering a building that was inspiringly historic in its detailing but contemporary at the same time.  The project is the Grand Mulberry Apartments that is located in Brooklyn NY.    While the facade pattern is traditional, the application of the hand-molded domed bricks is very modern—each brick was carefully positioned within the double-stacked running bond coursing to present the illusion of a traditional Italianate façade. When viewed from a distance the shadow effect gives the facade a ghosting window of a building that may have once stood here.  The new windows are contemporary and are placed in an even grid. Old meets new  

 

This design would even out the Veteran's Memorial Bridge anchor points of east and west. The east balance is The Rockefeller Bldg and this design pays homage to a forgotten style and yet shows Cleveland's modern approach. It also creates a memorable addition to Ohio City and sculptural element for a view of Bridgeworks from the new Irishtown Bend Park.  This also moves the idea away from unnecessary building material changes to create movement on a continuous surface.  Shadow and light provide that effect naturally. If the developer and commissions are afraid of one color sections could be adjusted with tonal brick colors with change in domed brick positioning patterns

 

At the end there is just so much more this can be with a little imagination

 

I hope Geis and the developer see and read our postings

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2024Sep 24 by dave2017

10 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

There are garbage developments in every city in the United States. I live in LA and there’s questionable stuff going up all over the place. As I have pointed out many times on this forum - people keep repeating the same tired tropes - this is not a Cleveland specific problem.  

I suggest people get out a little more and look at some other cities and the good, the bad and the ugly that’s being put up in these towns as well. 

I don't think most of us would be that critical of the design if this was being built in a different location. This is a very important/visible corner in the city, and will be next to one of the best urban parks in the country. This is not the location for a developer to be as cheap as they can be. 

This project seems to be slowly morphing into another "Redwood" apt project!

Is anyone familiar with the agreement the Bridgeworks development team signed with the county? 

57 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

This project seems to be slowly morphing into another "Redwood" apt project!

What is the redwood project?

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

I don't think most of us would be that critical of the design if this was being built in a different location. This is a very important/visible corner in the city, and will be next to one of the best urban parks in the country. This is not the location for a developer to be as cheap as they can be. 

 

Exactly!

4 hours ago, dave2017 said:

Once again I feel this site is too important to end up with such a poor design.  I was remembering a building that was inspiringly historic in its detailing but contemporary at the same time.  The project is the Grand Mulberry Apartments that is located in Brooklyn NY.    While the facade pattern is traditional, the application of the hand-molded domed bricks is very modern—each brick was carefully positioned within the double-stacked running bond coursing to present the illusion of a traditional Italianate façade. When viewed from a distance the shadow effect gives the facade a ghosting window of a building that may have once stood here.  The new windows are contemporary and are placed in an even grid. Old meets new  

 

This design would even out the Veteran's Memorial Bridge anchor points of east and west. The east balance is The Rockefeller Bldg and this design pays homage to a forgotten style and yet shows Cleveland's modern approach. It also creates a memorable addition to Ohio City and sculptural element for a view of Bridgeworks from the new Irishtown Bend Park.  This also moves the idea away from unnecessary building material changes to create movement on a continuous surface.  Shadow and light provide that effect naturally. If the developer and commissions are afraid of one color sections could be adjusted with tonal brick colors with change in domed brick positioning patterns

 

At the end there is just so much more this can be with a little imagination

 

I hope Geis and the developer see and read our postings

 

 

 

 

 

Good example and yes we hope they see these examples before Thursday’s meeting. Given the design direction they seem locked on - they need to embrace it with solid nods to the Rockefeller and Western Reserve at the other end of bridge. Another example of modern brickwork to consider would be the Michael Graves DC DOT hq. While also rather bland the materials used almost 20 yrs ago are more solid and could be reimagined here.

"A camel is a horse designed by committee" - Sir Alec Issigonis

53 minutes ago, Willo said:

Good example and yes we hope they see these examples before Thursday’s meeting. Given the design direction they seem locked on - they need to embrace it with solid nods to the Rockefeller and Western Reserve at the other end of bridge. Another example of modern brickwork to consider would be the Michael Graves DC DOT hq. While also rather bland the materials used almost 20 yrs ago are more solid and could be reimagined here.

As much as I hate the current design, I could get on board if they did something like the above in terms of breaking up the façade with indentations if that’s even the correct word. Also more brick like suggested.

Images are now public on the CPC dropbox. The ground floor looks nice. The 25th and Superior sides are simplified a bit. In general though I'm still waiting for the day I like one of these haphazardly broken-up facades.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/i41b146wkgm8j1bnz3xq9/ABZBguq1X23JFwmMoG4-mBc/Bridgeworks - Demo and New Construction?dl=0&preview=BRIDGEWORKS_DESIGN+REVIEW+PACKAGE_09-12-2024.pdf&rlkey=ql6wp36mdrrlhcqm27ftrsuz8&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Mendo said:

Does this portion contain commercial space? If not what a major miss. 

23 hours ago, dwolfi01 said:

 

oh we're going through with it alright against my objections. They are replacing the siding with the new black/grey on Stonebridge not painting it. Still it will look awful imo. Not happy that no one else seemed unhappy at all with the design choice a few members of the HOA committee made. 

I meant to ask if you have a pic of the Stonebridge recladding so we can see how the reported new gray or black panels will relate with the latest Geis design next door.

14 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Does this portion contain commercial space? If not what a major miss. 

 

Looks like the corner commercial space has been turned into pickleball courts

At this point I just want something in this space. Break ground and get this project on the way. 

I thought that the very, very first design was objected to, because the lack of a setback on W. 25th St. would obscure St. Malachi, but the final, final design appears to do the same thing.  What am I missing?

Design is much better than last iteration, but can't help but see a crappy hotel when seeing their windows in the brick and black portions.

2 hours ago, osu4brutus03 said:

At this point I just want something in this space. Break ground and get this project on the way. 

 

Yes, please.

The fact that there is no ground floor commercial space is just one of the many flaws of this design proposal. Why bother saving the old ticket booth since I don't see any plans for it's activation.

 

None of the final notes from The Ohio City Design Review were added to the Landmark's Commission presentation.

 

The setback, which Landmark's first disapproved of back at the very beginning of the project, has been eliminated. This was commission member Trott whom asked Geis if the setback remained and he said yes. Obviously not true and it seems to have been forgotten about

 

The little farmer's market stand within the garage entrance cut through is just odd and the renderings are deceptive. Again no commercial retail at the base except the apartment complex lobby.   I don't understand why there are two contemporary chandeliers hanging from the garage cut through.

 

The north elevation is odd that the hotel awning component remains and that the south elevation plaza appears to make you think there is a cafe in a hotel lobby component.

 

Not enough parking spaces for the all units to have 1 spot in the garage. If this design wanted to incorporate the use of the reactivation of The Veteran's Memorial Bridge one would think you would provide more amenities to your development.  

 

Yes this project has been value engineered. At this point the project just doesn't provide anything to draw people to an area that is being heavily invested in.  Unfortunately it appears Geis and Panzica lack the ability to give us anything more than a design that lost all the important parts  that the hotel element would have provided.  What great incentive is there to move into this development? 2 pickle ball courts is all I see.  

 

I also feel like the Landmark's Commission lacks the will power or energy to deny this project from being built.  Yet another lost opportunity for something worthy for this entry to Ohio City 

 

Edited September 24, 2024Sep 24 by dave2017

Sticking two pickleball courts in such a primo spot in the building does seem odd. That's a lot of space for a handful of people to use at any given time. It doesn't appear there are any exercise facilities besides that in the building? They could lease that spot out to someone who wants to run a Snap Fitness there and serve people in the building and surrounding neighborhood.

honest question. why is this a primo spot for retail? there is nobody for a mile to the east along the bridge, nobody for a half mile to the south, a highway on ramp to the north along with a church and project housing. there is only one active storefront on the intersection and it's a b2b office furniture showroom.  the halfmile radius is pretty low in terms of potential customers. 

3 hours ago, Mendo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok tbh that's not bad. Its got better street presence than I expected.

 

Edited September 24, 2024Sep 24 by ASP1984

Really excited for the "Oh wow this looks so much better that I thought" comments once this thing is built 🤣. It's part of the circle of life at UrbanOhio. 

1 hour ago, Whipjacka said:

honest question. why is this a primo spot for retail? there is nobody for a mile to the east along the bridge, nobody for a half mile to the south, a highway on ramp to the north along with a church and project housing. there is only one active storefront on the intersection and it's a b2b office furniture showroom.  the halfmile radius is pretty low in terms of potential customers. 

 

I'll bite. The "heart" of Hingetown is only a block away, which is an easy walk. Plus there will be an amazing park across the street hopefully in the not too distant future. Plus there are a whole bunch of people living in that building who for sure would appreciate having some sort of retail very nearby.

 

That said, I think the pickleball courts idea is what most confuses me. Why not give the people more fitness options and create a space where more people can enjoy it? Seems like they are being cheap in not want to buy or maintain gym equipment.

7 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

I don't think most of us would be that critical of the design if this was being built in a different location. This is a very important/visible corner in the city, and will be next to one of the best urban parks in the country. This is not the location for a developer to be as cheap as they can be. 

Exactly my point, thank you. Building a drap, uninspiring building for an increasingly up and coming area is stupid. Cleveland knows better and should DO better. I suggest dropping this mistake of a development and wait for a better opportunity. 

1 hour ago, ASP1984 said:

 

Ok tbh that's not bad. Its got better street presence than I expected.

 

"Not bad" is not something I'd want a visitor or potential transplant to say for a building in a primo area of our city. I'd much prefer, "Wow, look at that building!" or, "I wonder if those are apartments. I'm going to inquire." or even, "That's a really unique building!". NOT "Eh, whatever."

Oh and btw, I'm sure the developers don't care what goes there as long as they get paid. What gets build is going to be there for years to come. Don't let them build an eye sore. 

Are there not a few vacant retail locations at Church & State, Quarter Phase II and along 25th within a couple hundred feet of this project? Pretty sure all of the commercial space at the Dexter is still available. I don't view the absence of commercial space as a huge miss here.

23 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

Really excited for the "Oh wow this looks so much better that I thought" comments once this thing is built 🤣. It's part of the circle of life at UrbanOhio. 

 

I've been thinking the exact same thing, just look at how City Club/Skyline 776 turned out. 

 

Also, from street level most of us will only be paying attention to the first floor or two, and from a distance the fine details won't make nearly as much of a difference.

 

That said, now that interest rates are dropping I don't think I would mind if this project fell through so somebody else could build a skyscraper here. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if it was worth the wait 😉

1 hour ago, MostlyThere14 said:

Are there not a few vacant retail locations at Church & State, Quarter Phase II and along 25th within a couple hundred feet of this project? Pretty sure all of the commercial space at the Dexter is still available. I don't view the absence of commercial space as a huge miss here.

I'd rather build commercial space that can be filled in at a later date and add vibrancy than build a blank wall and regret having a dead corner that isn't usable in the future. If the corner will be dead anyway I'd rather a retail space be there to be able to change that later.

This project looks like crap and just needs to be denied. Committee just needs to tell them to redraw from scratch. Does Cleveland not have design standard examples?

2 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

"Not bad" is not something I'd want a visitor or potential transplant to say for a building in a primo area of our city. I'd much prefer, "Wow, look at that building!" or, "I wonder if those are apartments. I'm going to inquire." or even, "That's a really unique building!". NOT "Eh, whatever."

 

I can't argue with that.

The amount of negativity about this project is getting absurd.  The building doesn't look as good as the original designs, but man oh man, folks...comparison really is the thief of joy.

Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, and finally developing this corner is absolutely a "good."  

4 minutes ago, Chris314 said:

The amount of negativity about this project is getting absurd.  The building doesn't look as good as the original designs, but man oh man, folks...comparison really is the thief of joy.

Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, and finally developing this corner is absolutely a "good."  

I'll pass. A crap building is a crap building. With another 50 point rate cut expected, we should not be playing this game.

17 minutes ago, Chris314 said:

The amount of negativity about this project is getting absurd.  The building doesn't look as good as the original designs, but man oh man, folks...comparison really is the thief of joy.

Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, and finally developing this corner is absolutely a "good."  

The criticism of this building has not arisen due to the fact that the original design was more appealing.  People are criticizing it because it is your standard crappy Geis value engineered design.  The only thing positive I can say about it is that I have seen on Instagram some of their projects down south, and this looks like the Taj Mahal compared to those projects.  Let's face it, Geis just does mediocre work.  This corner, in particular, deserves more.

14 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

The criticism of this building has not arisen due to the fact that the original design was more appealing.  People are criticizing it because it is your standard crappy Geis value engineered design.  The only thing positive I can say about it is that I have seen on Instagram some of their projects down south, and this looks like the Taj Mahal compared to those projects.  Let's face it, Geis just does mediocre work.  This corner, in particular, deserves more.

Their architect should really have their license examined... there are so many things wrong with this design that go against common sense design principals. They haven't made a single effort to create setbacks in the facade and the random cornice is just stupid. Complete failure. Commission should have voted NO NO NO!!!

Geis has an architect?

Will there be any further public comment accepted on this proposal? 

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

Geis has an architect?

 

Yes, they have an in house team.

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

Will there be any further public comment accepted on this proposal? 

That's what the facilitator mentioned at the start of the meeting.  I don't know the exact details of how one would submit a comment.  

Edited September 25, 2024Sep 25 by DO_Summers

"A camel is a horse designed by committee" - Sir Alec Issigonis

 

I think this project has suffered from too much public comment.  Geis' first iteration would have looked very similar to the Quarter 2 and it would have been perfectly fine.

 

20 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'd rather build commercial space that can be filled in at a later date and add vibrancy than build a blank wall and regret having a dead corner that isn't usable in the future. If the corner will be dead anyway I'd rather a retail space be there to be able to change that later.

With Intro down the street, a MUCH larger development advertising for their LAST retail space to be leased that to me goes to show that this area/neighborhood can support and attract retail but it depends on your efforts and connections you have.