September 25, 2024Sep 25 15 minutes ago, Dino said: "A camel is a horse designed by committee" - Sir Alec Issigonis I think this project has suffered from too much public comment. Geis' first iteration would have looked very similar to the Quarter 2 and it would have been perfectly fine. It didn't look like this though...
September 25, 2024Sep 25 11 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: With Intro down the street, a MUCH larger development advertising for their LAST retail space to be leased that to me goes to show that this area/neighborhood can support and attract retail but it depends on your efforts and connections you have. Down the street is technically correct, but these are a 15 minute walk apart, hardly the same area. Intro is fantastic, probably the best development in recent memory, but it's also across the street from West Side Market, and in arguably the most desirable area of Cleveland. Hingetown is still a great area, though not quite on the same level, and this development would be on the edge of it. I think whether or not it could support retail is a fair question. To be clear, I think the answer is yes, but it's debatable.
September 25, 2024Sep 25 47 minutes ago, Ethan said: Down the street is technically correct, but these are a 15 minute walk apart, hardly the same area. Intro is fantastic, probably the best development in recent memory, but it's also across the street from West Side Market, and in arguably the most desirable area of Cleveland. Hingetown is still a great area, though not quite on the same level, and this development would be on the edge of it. I think whether or not it could support retail is a fair question. To be clear, I think the answer is yes, but it's debatable. The bridge works area also is home to 311 new apartments within the last 5 years plus 158 more just 3 blocks up the street. Combine that with the 219 units planned for this building you have almost 670 units built/soon to be built in a 3 block area. Not to mention Irishtown bend when it comes online which will be a citywide attraction and being across the bridge from Downtown Cleveland this area has just as much to offer as the area Intro sits in. The difference is that area attracted local retailers and businesses to make that area walkable and attractive. This area can do the same it comes down to effort and having the will to do it. I almost forgot that this area will be served by the Metro health BRT lite project as well. If you want an area to be vibrant you need to provide the resources and have proper design as well as exert the effort.
September 25, 2024Sep 25 Hingetown has more than 36,000 square feet of retail space available for lease in 7 different buildings right now, and that's just between Franklin, Detroit and inside of w 32nd. Nobody is even attempting to list retail space along the viaduct or in the flats despite the many empty storefronts. Pickleball courts are a nice way of activating the street level until the retail demand is high enough to convert the space.
September 25, 2024Sep 25 9 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: The bridge works area also is home to 311 new apartments within the last 5 years plus 158 more just 3 blocks up the street. Combine that with the 219 units planned for this building you have almost 670 units built/soon to be built in a 3 block area. Not to mention Irishtown bend when it comes online which will be a citywide attraction and being across the bridge from Downtown Cleveland this area has just as much to offer as the area Intro sits in. The difference is that area attracted local retailers and businesses to make that area walkable and attractive. This area can do the same it comes down to effort and having the will to do it. I almost forgot that this area will be served by the Metro health BRT lite project as well. If you want an area to be vibrant you need to provide the resources and have proper design as well as exert the effort. I mostly agree with you. Hingetown is great, and it's definitely up and coming. I absolutely think that there's more the City can and should be doing to promote this area. That said I think you overestimate how much city planners control the future of this or any area. More nearby residents and new amenities will help tremendously. But I'd dispute that you can necessarily 'effort' any/every area into peak vibrancy. There's a certain amount of growth that's organic, and there's a gravity model component to it as well. An area with a given population can only support so many 'hot' areas, and they tend to space themselves out in rational-ish way. Of course, more residents can absolutely support more hot areas, and/or larger hot areas. The main difference between Hingetown and the Ohio City core is that far more people drive, or take transit, into Ohio City than they do Hingetown. That's likely to continue (even after transit improves, which will help a lot!). One of Hingetown's issues (which isn't really an issue) is its distance from the W25/Lorain area it's both too far and too close. It's far enough to be its own area, but close enough to be in competition. As such it's probably going to continue to be a secondary node for the foreseeable future, but that's okay though, because the rising tide that is the Near West Side lifts all boats! Even with everything I said above, I imagine this area will change a lot over the next few decades. Almost certainly for the better. Should be fun to watch. There will be plenty of developments that make us happier than this one is currently. I have very high hopes for this area, and I'm optimistic. It could very well be the case that in a few decades I'd agree that this area will be just as well located as Intro. Though I wouldn't be surprised if that's because the Ohio City core has grown to swallow it.
September 26, 2024Sep 26 4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: The bridge works area also is home to 311 new apartments within the last 5 years plus 158 more just 3 blocks up the street. Combine that with the 219 units planned for this building you have almost 670 units built/soon to be built in a 3 block area. Not to mention Irishtown bend when it comes online which will be a citywide attraction and being across the bridge from Downtown Cleveland this area has just as much to offer as the area Intro sits in. The difference is that area attracted local retailers and businesses to make that area walkable and attractive. This area can do the same it comes down to effort and having the will to do it. I almost forgot that this area will be served by the Metro health BRT lite project as well. If you want an area to be vibrant you need to provide the resources and have proper design as well as exert the effort. The dots connecting the areas are slowly happening. If the Cleveland Clinic Lutheran superblock, the Vibe block behind it and others emrge soon in response to the opening of the Irishtown Bend Park, the BRT, and improving economic outlook- look out! The current perceived disconnect for visitors and newcomers discussed above should then slowly disappear between Hingetown/Detroit and Ohio City/Intro/Tremont (without even mentioning all of the adjacent development that seems to be cascading down the hill toward the Scranton Peninsula, Rock Ventures/Clinic/CAVS and now the soccer stadium). What an exciting time for the city to now confidently begin to attract newcomers.
September 26, 2024Sep 26 12 hours ago, Willo said: The dots connecting the areas are slowly happening. If the Cleveland Clinic Lutheran superblock, the Vibe block behind it and others emrge soon in response to the opening of the Irishtown Bend Park, the BRT, and improving economic outlook- look out! The current perceived disconnect for visitors and newcomers discussed above should then slowly disappear between Hingetown/Detroit and Ohio City/Intro/Tremont (without even mentioning all of the adjacent development that seems to be cascading down the hill toward the Scranton Peninsula, Rock Ventures/Clinic/CAVS and now the soccer stadium). What an exciting time for the city to now confidently begin to attract newcomers. I also feel/hope that the BRT project should truly be the thing that dramatically shrinks the street. The reason that the area by the WSM is walkable (outside of the shops) is that it FEELS walkable. The portion of West 25th by this project feels like a car sewer which is something that is abnormal for the near west side imo. In order to attract foot traffic the people need to feel that they can walk safely. But it is definitely amazing to see the gap slowly but surely close. The Irishtown Bend project definitely will accelerate that, in the next 5-10 years this area will be one of, if not the most vibrant sections in the city.
September 26, 2024Sep 26 Author Bridgeworks can finally build – up to two stories By Ken Prendergast / September 26, 2024 After four years of going through multiple design iterations, it somehow seems natural that Bridgeworks finally got the OK today from the city to start construction — but only up to the second floor. To build above that, the project’s development team is going to have to come back to the city for design approval of the building’s top five floors. The team pledged it would do so — quickly. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/26/bridgeworks-can-finally-build-up-to-two-stories/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 26, 2024Sep 26 Yes...after all the various iterations l can say with a practiced eye, lt's definitely a building.
September 26, 2024Sep 26 1 hour ago, cadmen said: Yes...after all the various iterations l can say with a practiced eye, lt's definitely a building. and if it truly turns out to be "workforce-rate apartments" as purpoorted (and not Intro prices) it is a partial win. At least they didn't offer Tony George the roof for the third and final settlement billboard they are owed. btw...when does that eyesore come finally down?
September 27, 2024Sep 27 15 hours ago, KJP said: Bridgeworks can finally build – up to two stories By Ken Prendergast / September 26, 2024 After four years of going through multiple design iterations, it somehow seems natural that Bridgeworks finally got the OK today from the city to start construction — but only up to the second floor. To build above that, the project’s development team is going to have to come back to the city for design approval of the building’s top five floors. The team pledged it would do so — quickly. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/26/bridgeworks-can-finally-build-up-to-two-stories/ This is so strange I have never seen a project be handled like this.
September 27, 2024Sep 27 I like the pushback on the South design and agree with moving forward. More brick and a unified cornice would definitely help bigtime and with more interest rate cuts coming there should be a good compromise here.
September 27, 2024Sep 27 This project should just start over with a better design. It's getting just all too weird.
September 27, 2024Sep 27 I was disappointed with the landmark's decision to allow this project's approval. So much focus on the southern facade treatment that nobody had the guts to say it's just not an attractive building.
September 27, 2024Sep 27 How do we decide what is “attractive”? If I was emperor, I’d require all buildings look like what was built in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I personally am not a fan of a lot of contemporary designs. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me but I raise this idea because I wonder at what point does government micromanaging discourage investment?
September 27, 2024Sep 27 32 minutes ago, coneflower said: How do we decide what is “attractive”? If I was emperor, I’d require all buildings look like what was built in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I personally am not a fan of a lot of contemporary designs. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me but I raise this idea because I wonder at what point does government micromanaging discourage investment? The public is investing a lot of money info this project we should have plenty of input and we should be getting a better return. Actually seems insane to me that this project is getting so much on top of the standard tax abatement. “The city and the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority have provided a tax-increment financing package including $84 million worth of bonds. Cuyahoga County also has authorized a $2 million loan to the project.” Edited September 27, 2024Sep 27 by bumsquare
September 27, 2024Sep 27 @coneflower With regards only to this project, there were so many iterations that were presented that one can't help but to ask the question if the best choices were made. It has been disappointing to see what could have been and where it landed. Value engineered architecture and the lack of understanding detail principals and scale make this feel off. Surface material changes with no setbacks is lazy and doesn't provide anything of value. The form of this building is what is flawed and now that the first two floors were approved the rest is just dressing.
September 27, 2024Sep 27 11 minutes ago, bumsquare said: The public is investing a lot of money info this project we should have plenty of input and we should be getting a better return. Actually seems insane to me that this project is getting so much on top of the standard tax abatement. “The city and the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority have provided a tax-increment financing package including $84 million worth of bonds. Cuyahoga County also has authorized a $2 million loan to the project.” If only the Bridgeworks team had the Coumbus lobbying skills that Erieview ($13 million) and Millenia's Centennial ($40 Million mega award?) had to successfully win TMUD's. Despite the design criticism I don't think the Bridgeworks team would have fizzled out if they had instead been awarded a TMUD as the others did so soon after hogging their large awards. Hopefully their awards can be re-allocated (to a Cleveland project).
September 28, 2024Sep 28 Author On 9/27/2024 at 6:17 PM, coneflower said: How do we decide what is “attractive”? If I was emperor, I’d require all buildings look like what was built in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I personally am not a fan of a lot of contemporary designs. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me but I raise this idea because I wonder at what point does government micromanaging discourage investment? But some of this was Bridgeworks LLC often changing the design itself. Landmarks Commission staff complained about having to assess so many variations of designs as well. Both sides were culpable. But let's look ahead. The design team has its marching orders. Hopefully they and the Landmarks staff and commissioners will align soon on the remaining piece. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 28, 2024Sep 28 17 hours ago, coneflower said: How do we decide what is “attractive”? If I was emperor, I’d require all buildings look like what was built in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I personally am not a fan of a lot of contemporary designs. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me but I raise this idea because I wonder at what point does government micromanaging discourage investment? I don't think the building is all that terrible. Sure, it's not great but It does look like a ton of other buildings (albeit larger) used for housing. If it was in a different location l would be ok with it. The problem is that corner is too important for a lackluster building. And now that we've seen that phenominal video of the park across the street we can understand what a wasted opportunity we have here. The first two iterations were great. Eye catching, colorful and of an oppropriate scale. The two (building and park) would have bookended a prominate entrance to downtown. Striking. It would help to erase some of the old Cleveland stigma of a boring place. Instead, what we get is reaffirmation of that. I know it's too late now but, damn, what a waste.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 Bridgeworks is going in front of Landmarks this week with another set of revisions. The facade is simplified even more since the September version. Arguably more cohesive. Looks decent from the Detroit/Superior bridge side. https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/landmark/agenda/2024/PDF/CLC-12-12-2024-AGENDA.pdf https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/fthrdkrqeqofv59iwzec9/AKVu_0LVILyTUFN5o40RvTg/BRIDGEWORKS_DESIGN REVIEW PACKAGE_12-06-2024.pdf?rlkey=47h0nv0h8cr37t5o3ekuq9n2r&e=1&st=083kmjno&bmus=1&dl=0 Edited December 9, 2024Dec 9 by Mendo
December 9, 2024Dec 9 Author I'm probably going to have to skip covering this one. Absolutely buried with stuff to cover. Anyone experienced and interested in writing freelance articles? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 9, 2024Dec 9 7 minutes ago, KJP said: I'm probably going to have to skip covering this one. Absolutely buried with stuff to cover. Anyone experienced and interested in writing freelance articles? An amazing problem to have.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 12 minutes ago, KJP said: I'm probably going to have to skip covering this one. Absolutely buried with stuff to cover. Anyone experienced and interested in writing freelance articles? I have a chat-gpt subscription... 😉 😝
December 9, 2024Dec 9 35 minutes ago, Mendo said: Bridgeworks is going in front of Landmarks this week with another set of revisions. The facade is simplified even more since the September version. Arguably more cohesive. Looks decent from the Detroit/Superior bridge side. https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/landmark/agenda/2024/PDF/CLC-12-12-2024-AGENDA.pdf https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/fthrdkrqeqofv59iwzec9/AKVu_0LVILyTUFN5o40RvTg/BRIDGEWORKS_DESIGN REVIEW PACKAGE_12-06-2024.pdf?rlkey=47h0nv0h8cr37t5o3ekuq9n2r&e=1&st=083kmjno&bmus=1&dl=0 Looks a little better. At this point let's just get the thing built.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 7 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said: Looks a little better. At this point let's just get the thing built. Stick a fork in it and call it a day - but not this fork as it has already been done though the building looks similar: Plus we have bigger fish to fry based on how busy KJP is today…I am sensing TMUD news.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 Just build the f*cking thing already. We aren't going to get what we hoped for, so lets just get something on that corner already. So tired of all these revisions lol rant over
December 9, 2024Dec 9 Not going to lie, while I would prefer one of the pre-downsized options, I actually think they've made something decent out of all of these reviews. It's not the most exciting of designs, but if this current version is what had originally been pitched, I think most people here would be very positive.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 I think its horrible, should be scrapped, and serve as a lesson to developers looking to cut costs that they'll lose more in trying to do so than just doing the right thing to start.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 1 hour ago, KJP said: I'm probably going to have to skip covering this one. Absolutely buried with stuff to cover. Skyline changing developments?
December 9, 2024Dec 9 Bridgeworks is a great example that no matter what facade is chosen the form is the problem. I do wish this prominent site held out for something better. I don't feel this new iteration is the best choice
December 9, 2024Dec 9 On 11/10/2020 at 11:54 AM, KJP said: Thanks to @tykaps for his help with this!! TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2020 Bridgeworks plans revealed, will add to Hingetown's height Conceptual plans were submitted to the city this week for a mixed-use development in the Hingetown section of Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood. According to those plans, the tallest building would rise to 11 stories or about 127 feet high. The project is Bridgeworks, a partnership of Grammar Properties LLC and M. Panzica Development, on the northeast corner of West 25th Street and the Detroit-Superior Bridge. The project's address is 2429 Superior Viaduct. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/11/bridgeworks-plans-revealed-will-add-to.html I went back to page 1 of the thread....just to see what once was....
December 9, 2024Dec 9 ^ What it was supposed to be and what it is...brutal. But at least for all of you who just wanted something built on the site. You got the definition of something.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 18 minutes ago, freethink said: Does anyone know the projected cost on this version? https://neo-trans.blog/2023/04/12/bridgeworks-gets-county-loan-start-date/ From KJP, the one that actually had a start date was $108 million.
December 9, 2024Dec 9 1 hour ago, cadmen said: ^ What it was supposed to be and what it is...brutal. But at least for all of you who just wanted something built on the site. You got the definition of something. It’s a battle of attrition in this city. With the impossible, hurdle ridden, soul sucking, arbitrary process, it’s truly amazing that anything gets built in the city limits. I understand that people are trying to change that. I’m cautiously optimistic.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/04/12/bridgeworks-gets-county-loan-start-date/ From KJP, the one that actually had a start date was $108 million. Can someone sneak this older preferred iteration into the slide deck for stealth approval at the Landmarks meeting this week.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 I think it’ll look really good in real life. I just wish it had balconies. Having a balcony overlooking the new park and that angle of the downtown skyline would be worth every penny of what they will charge. But Geis does s**t work. So maybe next time.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 28 minutes ago, Willo said: Can someone sneak this older preferred iteration into the slide deck for stealth approval at the Landmarks meeting this week. Ouch. And folks were griping about that design at the time. Love that one.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 3 hours ago, Willo said: Can someone sneak this older preferred iteration into the slide deck for stealth approval at the Landmarks meeting this week. This was the one out of the 20 designs this project has had that wasn't total trash.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 16 hours ago, marty15 said: I think it’ll look really good in real life. I just wish it had balconies. Having a balcony overlooking the new park and that angle of the downtown skyline would be worth every penny of what they will charge. But Geis does s**t work. So maybe next time. Geis should stick to tilt ups if they want to keep value engineering.
December 12, 2024Dec 12 Saddened to watch The Landmarks Commission give final approval to the latest iteration today. I am perplexed on how this commission has handled their duties throughout the years on this project. There were plenty of better designs that had started this process. All this back and forth lead this project to mediocrity. I have lost faith in this commission and their purpose
December 12, 2024Dec 12 8 minutes ago, dave2017 said: Saddened to watch The Landmarks Commission give final approval to the latest iteration today. I am perplexed on how this commission has handled their duties throughout the years on this project. There were plenty of better designs that had started this process. All this back and forth lead this project to mediocrity. I have lost faith in this commission and their purpose LOL, And, with this, think about what they have rejected or complained about in the past on other projects! Edited December 12, 2024Dec 12 by urb-a-saurus
December 12, 2024Dec 12 Author Check this out! We got a new freelancer at NEOtrans with his first bylined article. Congrats, @Geowizical!! Bridgeworks gets green light from Landmarks By Ian McDaniel / December 12, 2024 Typically, the third time’s a charm, but Bridgeworks needed more times than that to earn the approval of the Cleveland Landmarks Commission. Ultimately, the proposal passed unanimously today. The go-ahead allows developers to move forward with constructing all of the $84 million project, located at 2429 W. Superior St. in Cleveland’s Ohio City neighborhood. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/12/12/bridgeworks-gets-green-light-from-landmarks/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 2024Dec 12 At least it fills a void and other positive it nods (copies) parts of the facades of both the historic Forest City Bank building across the street and the beautiful Western Reserve building bookended on the bridge at the corner of West 9th.
December 12, 2024Dec 12 I really don't get what the problem with this building is. they just proposed some ugly af buildings on Euclid in midtown and nobody cares. But this 7 storey building on a weird and awkward lot, on a hill, cut off by a bridge is so prime that it deserves a multi hundred million dollar build.
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