September 19, 20222 yr The setback was solely to appease Landmark's misguided concern about blocking the view of St. Malachi church from W. 25th
September 22, 20222 yr Author Bridgeworks wins Landmarks OK, awaits financing By Ken Prendergast / September 22, 2022 Final design of a 15-story mixed-use tower that’s proposed to be built at the west end of the Detroit-Superior Bridge was narrowly approved today by Cleveland’s Landmarks Commission. But whether the project actually gets built reportedly will depend on whether the project, called Bridgeworks, will win a “megaprojects” tax credit from the state in a few weeks. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/22/bridgeworks-wins-landmarks-ok-awaits-financing/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20222 yr Quote Landmarks Commission Chair Julie Trott said she “admires the handsome design” of Bridgeworks but said she doesn’t like the structure’s height on this site. That viewpoint was shared by fellow commission member Michele Anderson who, while liking the building’s brighter color, said “the overall height is not appropriate for the site.” So literally right across the bridge it's ok to build 600+ft high but once you cross that water way it's tiny buildings only? I just don't get that sentiment. This plot could not be any closer to downtown. Let them build!!
September 22, 20222 yr Pretty scary - the opinion offered by commissioner Julie Trott and her sidekick, Michele Anderson - shaking my head Big Time! Do they think they’re living in Rootstown? (Sorry, not intending to pick on Rootstown - I’m sure it’s very nice there.) Bridgeworks would be a transformational project for that site in Ohio City I’ll be rooting hard for this project to receive TMUD money. Let’s keep building, Cleveland! Edited September 23, 20222 yr by CleveFan
September 22, 20222 yr Author This has been floating around on social media in recent days even though it's four years old and is very relevant to this discussion. The top is how Europe does cities. The bottom is how the USA does cities.... Land use comparison of a typical European city and a North American city, created by u/butterslice via Reddit "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20222 yr The building is tall because Landmarks pushed them to shrink the footprint with larger setbacks along 25th and Washington. The original site plan was, what, 11 floors, and ironically preserved more of the existing structures on the site. Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Mendo
September 22, 20222 yr What great news. As that famous urban planner Vince Lombardi once said "People don't score touchdowns, buildings do."
September 22, 20222 yr Landmarks Commission Chair Julie Trott said she “admires the handsome design” of Bridgeworks but said she doesn’t like the structure’s height on this site. That viewpoint was shared by fellow commission member Michele Anderson who, while liking the building’s brighter color, said “the overall height is not appropriate for the site.” “So literally right across the bridge it's ok to build 600+ft high but once you cross that water way it's tiny buildings only? I just don't get that sentiment. This plot could not be any closer to downtown. Let them build!!” And not to mention the 11 story church and state, 19 story lake view terrace, and the 15 story river view…. All nearby neighbors
September 22, 20222 yr A 3-2 vote is pretty nuts though for a project that brings a lot of good to an otherwise dead corner
September 22, 20222 yr The chair, Julie Trott, has been against the project from day one saying it was too high for the location. The problem is, she just states that without backing it with any common sense rationale. She also was against Waverly and Oak because it was too tall. She has a strange aesthetic. Anderson, after saying she liked many aspects of the design then goes on to vote no because it is too tall, Huh? As expressed by some other forum members in the past, it is time for her to go. I have never run across somebody who likes the sound of her own voice more than Ms. Anderson. She has to comment on everything but usually does not have much concrete to offer. She really sounded clueless when commenting on the agenda item just prior to Bridgeworks. To this day my favorite Landmarks moment is when Matt Wymer subtly put her in her place when she started lecturing him about project financing on one of his Little Italy projects. I was a bit concerned when they were voting. The project was roundly praised and it seemed like the vote would be a formality, and then it ended up passing in a nail biter, 3-2, due to an abstention and because a number of commission members just seemed to disappear from the meeting. I know, it is a rough job. Fingers crossed for the TMUD Edited September 23, 20222 yr by Htsguy
September 23, 20222 yr Maybe Ms. Trott and Anderson need to be educated on the positive aspects of density and one aspect of density is height.
September 24, 20222 yr Alright. The more I think about this the more pissed off I get. We have the potential for so much more here. What did Burnham say, something about make no little plans for they stir no man's soul? Let me set the stage. We have the potential for a dramatic entrance to downtown but right now the east side of the Detroit/West25th street intersection is pretty nondescript. We have a fantastic, colorful and modern building (no thanks to those two deep thinkers on the Planning Commission) on one corner. We will have a sweeping urban park that takes advantage of the valley view on the other corner. And that park is one example of where we turned lemons (a crumbling hillside that needed shoring up) into lemonade {creating a park out of an abandoned hillside). We're mostly there in creating that dramatic entrance. All that's left is the southeast corner. From what I've read the plan was to have the park just end on that corner with nothing built. The one fly in the ointment is that decrepit building that was supposed to be torn down. But wait. Enter that mafioso capitalist, the family George who dashed in to buy that little turd at a yard sale and is now holding it hostage. But IF said family somehow discovered a conscious and were to sell that property or even really develop it here's what we could have. A structure that compliments the Bridgework building. One suitably tall. modern and colorful. THEN we would have created that dramatic entrance to downtown. We don't need another little building that blends in with its surroundings Ms. Trott and Anderson. We don't need a little turd on the opposite corner Mr. George. What we need is to take advantage of what little geography we do have and build a dramatic park with a view, build a dramatic entrance to downtown and maybe, just maybe in the process we stir the souls of people visiting and allow them to realize that Cleveland is pretty cool and maybe I should consider moving here and become a part of it. All we need do is stop with these little plans, selfish plans and create something we can all be proud of. I'm a rank amateur here. If I can see it why can't our leader's see it?
September 25, 20222 yr I may be out of place here and I hope this doesn't detail the thread, but what qualifications do Trott and Anderson even have to serve on the commission? How in the world do we have a CITY planning commission with two people who seem to treat Cleveland like a suburb? Do Trott and Anderson have expertise in other areas that we typically do not cover on this thread? I just can't wrap my head around why they are on the planning commission besides having the role of devil's advocate.
September 25, 20222 yr 23 minutes ago, clandman1123 said: I may be out of place here and I hope this doesn't detail the thread, but what qualifications do Trott and Anderson even have to serve on the commission? How in the world do we have a CITY planning commission with two people who seem to treat Cleveland like a suburb? Do Trott and Anderson have expertise in other areas that we typically do not cover on this thread? I just can't wrap my head around why they are on the planning commission besides having the role of devil's advocate. They are both on Landmarks Commission not Planning Commission which is a different review board. I believe the chairperson, Trott, is an architect and I think Anderson is a real estate agent as well as an all around know it all.
September 25, 20222 yr Trott's thinking is what will keep Cleveland in the stone ages! The same thinking that said no building could be taller than the Terminal Tower and look what happened to the BP Building. Bridgeworks is is hardly too tall. Just silly!
September 25, 20222 yr Well, even with those two it passed Landmarks Commission 3-2. Hopefully, with larger projects that have the chance to impact the city in a positive way, it remains a 3-2 majority even with the two naysayers on the Commission itself.
September 25, 20222 yr 15 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said: Well, even with those two it passed Landmarks Commission 3-2. Hopefully, with larger projects that have the chance to impact the city in a positive way, it remains a 3-2 majority even with the two naysayers on the Commission itself. It would have probably been even a larger majority except there was one abstention and three members stepped away from the meeting before this last agenda item was finished. This continues to be a problem both with Landmarks and Planning despite the fact they only meet for about 3 hours twice a month. I wonder if this would happen less if the meetings went back to in person like before the pandemic rather than virtual. City council now meets in person as well as council's various committees. Why can't the commissions?
September 28, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, osu4brutus03 said: What’s next? I’m excited about this development. I According to @KJP, nothing if they don’t receive an upcoming TMUD.
September 29, 20222 yr Author 44 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said: Aren't TMUD awards released next month? Or am I misremembering? It's in the article 🙂 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 20222 yr https://courbanize.com/projects/bridgeworks/updates/29652?utm_campaign=update&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgridHeading to zoning 11/14
November 3, 20222 yr On 11/1/2022 at 3:49 PM, BoomerangCleRes said: https://courbanize.com/projects/bridgeworks/updates/29652?utm_campaign=update&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid Heading to zoning 11/14 There is zoning and intended use information signage up around the property, as well.
November 3, 20222 yr 6 minutes ago, BJBaes said: There is zoning and intended use information signage up around the property, as well. This development will make that area feel even bigger. Looking forward to groundbreaking.
November 3, 20222 yr 20 minutes ago, osu4brutus03 said: This development will make that area feel even bigger. Looking forward to groundbreaking. I am glad to see they are still moving forward with the permit process but, again, it has been strongly suggested that it will not happen without a TMUD. Hope that is not the case if they don't win. We should know shortly.
November 3, 20222 yr Author Next meeting of the Ohio tax credit authority is Dec. 5. They may hold a special meeting sometime this month. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 4, 20222 yr Detroit Ave is an arterial throughway, i'm not sure why this hasnt been done sooner.
November 4, 20222 yr Already mentioned earlier but here's a pic of the signage on the bridgeworks site, Also for what it's worth my whole building got letters in the mail notifying us of the meeting and the variances they are requesting.
November 4, 20222 yr Well, it's more signage than SHW currently has up. 4 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said: Already mentioned earlier but here's a pic of the signage on the bridgeworks site, Also for what it's worth my whole building got letters in the mail notifying us of the meeting and the variances they are requesting.
November 5, 20222 yr Well, it's more signage than SHW currently has up. Have you seen the SHW site lately? The signage is everywhere lolSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 7, 20222 yr On 11/4/2022 at 8:50 PM, MyPhoneDead said: Have you seen the SHW site lately? The signage is everywhere lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk oh damn, no i haven't been down there in awhile. Now i must go check this out
November 14, 20222 yr On 11/11/2022 at 1:32 PM, BoomerangCleRes said: Zoning meeting was Postponed Actually it went forward this morning and all requested variances were granted. Now just waiting for the gang in Columbus.
November 14, 20222 yr Took me this long to realize the front of the parking garage has a retail element
December 4, 20222 yr Did I recently see somewhere, maybe in one of Ken's recent articles, that the TMUDs are being announced on Wed. Dec. 7th? Is that when we find out if this project gets built or not?
December 4, 20222 yr https://development.ohio.gov/home/news-and-events/all-events/2022-1207-Ohio-Tax-Credit-Authority
December 4, 20222 yr Author When I asked Bridgeworks' developers last week if they had any intel about how the authority might act this coming week, they said they had no insights. I believe them. Circle Square's developers also said they've heard nothing. The other applicants did not respond to my inquiries. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 4, 20222 yr It would be quite a shame if they didn't get picked this time around. Doubly because it seems they are literally as shovel-ready as they can already getting approvals for everything from the commissions for demo and build. Seems like they want to start ASAP as soon as they get this funding gap closed. I'm certainly rooting for them this time around.
December 7, 20222 yr Will this TMUD meeting tomorrow morning be live streamed?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
December 7, 20222 yr Author 1 hour ago, GREGinPARMA said: Will this TMUD meeting tomorrow morning be live streamed? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 20222 yr 6 hours ago, KJP said: No You will likely know the results more than most of us Ken. Will you be pumping out an article shortly after the announcements?
December 7, 20222 yr Author Sorry to bring bad news "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 20222 yr 40 minutes ago, KJP said: Sorry to bring bad news Any idea on which projects are getting awards?
December 7, 20222 yr Author 21 minutes ago, freefourur said: Any idea on which projects are getting awards? Not yet. I'm working the networks trying to find out. It's interesting how some applicants know and others don't. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Sorry to bring bad news Maybe they can go hat in hand to the city and county and beg for $$ to make up the funding gap. The last month or so I have watched principals from Fairmount Properties appear before both Cleveland City Council and Cuyahoga Council on bended knee asking for support to make up an unanticipated funding gap (due to inflation and supply side problems supposedly) on its Clinic project which is well underway. Asking for way more $$ than what the owners are proposing in additional equity contributions to fill the gap. Of course this project has an advantage in this regard as it is already underway, has the strong support of the administration and they have been emphasizing the fact that they are building in a economically disadvantaged neighbor and bringing a grocery store to the project. You get a bit more sympathy from public bodies painting that picture than saying you are bringing in a boutique hotel and neat coffee shop. Will be interesting to see what happens. I am rooting for them. Edited December 7, 20222 yr by Htsguy
December 7, 20222 yr Maaan! That was one of my favorite developments. Seemed like a transformative project. I guess at this point we can only hope it can find a way to get built on its financial merits alone. I fail to see how/why THIS building is deemed unprofitable to build while others in the city are getting built. It would be one thing if nothing was getting built here. Then I could say it's the market. But projects ARE getting built so what makes this one unable to make the cut? The answer seems murky to me but then, I'm not privy to the discussions.
December 7, 20222 yr 49 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Maybe they can go hat in hand to the city and county and beg for $$ to make up the funding gap. The last month or so I have watched principals from Fairmount Properties appear before both Cleveland City Council and Cuyahoga Council on bended knee asking for support to make up an unanticipated funding gap (due to inflation and supply side problems supposedly) on its Clinic project which is well underway. Pretty sure this is a loan, at least if it's the one I'm thinking of. Pretty much a setup unique to Cleveland but it's a way to use CDBG funding based on jobs created, retained, etc. - almost positive it's a low interest loan so not quite the city giving them money. If I'm talking about the wrong project my bad!
December 7, 20222 yr I guess my question would be if this isn't considered a Transformational Project... what exactly is?
December 7, 20222 yr Yeah, this is really disappointing- Bridgeworks seemed like exactly the kind of project that TMUD was designed for. Can they give it a try next time - when would the next round of applicants happen?
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