Cleveland Council President Kevin Kelley used PAC to fund colleagues who endorsed his mayoral bid 

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/10/cleveland-mayoral-candidate-kevin-kelley-and-council-president-hopeful-blaine-griffin-split-control-of-influential-pac.html

That's pretty gross.

More insight into the Sweeney endorsement. 

 

https://therealdealpress.com/2.0/index.php/politics/793-justin-bibb-s-endorsement-by-marty-sweeney-more-significant-than-it-looks

35 minutes ago, GISguy said:

More insight into the Sweeney endorsement. 

 

https://therealdealpress.com/2.0/index.php/politics/793-justin-bibb-s-endorsement-by-marty-sweeney-more-significant-than-it-looks

 

This paragraph suggests that Sandra Williams has endorsed Bibb, but I don't think that's officially happened yet:

Quote

That’s a greatly underrated attribute in these polarized times. It’s helped Bibb get endorsements just in the last two weeks from nearly every quarter. From Nina Turner, whose insufficiencies in that area torpedoed her candidacy in a Congressional primary that was hers for the taking. From state Sen. Nickie Antonio, who defeated Sweeney in their 2018 head to head primary and whose status as the first openly gay person to serve as a member of the Ohio legislature makes her more open to cross-boundary appeals. From state Sen. Sandra Williams, who trailed Bibb in virtually every ward in the primary but is smart enough to know which way the wind blows.

 

And there it is:

 

15 minutes ago, bikemail said:

And there it is:

 

Thanks - I'd been wondering the same thing when I read the article.  I'm glad to see the official endorsement.

59 minutes ago, bikemail said:

And there it is:

 

 

I used to like Sandra Williams and I supported her in the primary. She just lost all my respect. I get it if she doesn't like Kelley, but that doesn't mean she has to actively endorse the non-Kelley candidate.

 

Nice to see more endorsements coming in.

I believe the Sandra Williams endorsement, like the Zack Reed endorsement, is just devastating for Kelley. If you look at the primary results, the map is very bad for Kelley, with Bibb doing reasonably well everywhere and Kelley's support confined to the west side. With Bibb picking up 2/3 endorsements from the east side also-rans, it's just very hard for me to see Kelley's path.

On 10/18/2021 at 3:51 PM, LlamaLawyer said:

I believe the Sandra Williams endorsement, like the Zack Reed endorsement, is just devastating for Kelley. If you look at the primary results, the map is very bad for Kelley, with Bibb doing reasonably well everywhere and Kelley's support confined to the west side. With Bibb picking up 2/3 endorsements from the east side also-rans, it's just very hard for me to see Kelley's path.

 

I hate to accept it, but you're probably right unless he can pull some kind of October surprise. After 16 years in Council, it must be pretty devastating though to be taken out by a guy like Bibb. 

It will be nice to see Bibb clean house of these lifers that have kept the city stagnant for so long.  Sandra Williams endorsement slams the door shut!  It says a great deal about what leaders think about Kelly that he has been in Council for 16 years and all the major endorsements went to a 34 year old with no history in politics (Crain's, the PD, Mike White, Jane Campbell, the pastors, Zack Reed, Sherrod Brown, Nina Turner to name a few).  This is literally a butt whipping!

3 minutes ago, newyorker said:

It will be nice to see Bibb clean house of these lifers that have kept the city stagnant for so long.  Sandra Williams endorsement slams the door shut!  It says a great deal about what leaders think about Kelly that he has been in Council for 16 years and all the major endorsements went to a 34 year old with no history in politics (Crain's, the PD, Mike White, Jane Campbell, the pastors, Zack Reed, Sherrod Brown, Nina Turner to name a few).  This is literally a butt whipping!

 

Calamity Jane's endorsement is a negative.

10 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

I hate to accept it, but you're probably right unless he can pull some kind of October surprise. After 16 years in Council, it must be pretty devastating though to be taken out by a guy like Bibb. 

As a father of 3, say this totally sincerely, not sarcastically: I am sure it's devastating, and I hope he takes the opportunity to focus more on his family and enjoyable things in life that he loves. Life's too short to get bent out of shape about this kind of loss. He's got a comfortable job at Porter Wright and a lot of influence. If he's motivated to do what's best for the city (which I have no reason to doubt he is), there's plenty of opportunity for him to have influence, out of the limelight.

35 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

As a father of 3, say this totally sincerely, not sarcastically: I am sure it's devastating, and I hope he takes the opportunity to focus more on his family and enjoyable things in life that he loves. Life's too short to get bent out of shape about this kind of loss. He's got a comfortable job at Porter Wright and a lot of influence. If he's motivated to do what's best for the city (which I have no reason to doubt he is), there's plenty of opportunity for him to have influence, out of the limelight.

 

Huh? Isn't he a full-time councilman (and council president)? Is this allowed? Aren't there lots of potential conflicts of interest working for a law firm in the city while also being in Council?

2 hours ago, newyorker said:

It will be nice to see Bibb clean house of these lifers that have kept the city stagnant for so long.  Sandra Williams endorsement slams the door shut!  It says a great deal about what leaders think about Kelly that he has been in Council for 16 years and all the major endorsements went to a 34 year old with no history in politics (Crain's, the PD, Mike White, Jane Campbell, the pastors, Zack Reed, Sherrod Brown, Nina Turner to name a few).  This is literally a butt whipping!

 

The only person Bibb said he would fire---and this only what he said, doesn't mean he'll do it--is the chief of police. Its certainly expected he picks a new cabinet. but beyond that effecting change won't be accomplished by firing everyone---which he can't do anyway as probably 98% of city staff are civil service. It will be by really having the guts to clean house where he can and hiring the right leaders.  Unfortunately for these last two points, he has no experience or credibility.

31 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

The only person Bibb said he would fire---and this only what he said, doesn't mean he'll do it--is the chief of police. Its certainly expected he picks a new cabinet. but beyond that effecting change won't be accomplished by firing everyone---which he can't do anyway as probably 98% of city staff are civil service. It will be by really having the guts to clean house where he can and hiring the right leaders.  Unfortunately for these last two points, he has no experience or credibility.

 

I work in local gov and I can tell you point blank that a good leader can have a huge effect on civil service employees. A competent CEO (mayor, exec, etc.), Chief of Staff, and Cabinet can really push 'protected' employees to be better civil servants. Indifference at the top breeds indifference at the bottom (just look at various NEO govt for proof - good and bad). It isn't impossible to get rid of bad employees- with a good leader comes good oversight - warning, PIP, and then proceed with the steps you need to take (it's not easy but it's possible). It takes 5-7 years to set a culture regardless of public or private, so it's possible to turn a ship around, it's just a slog.

 

I'd argue that nobody running for mayor (unless they've been a CEO or hiring manager of some sort) has any experience or credibility in hiring "the right leaders". Council might have some oversight of hires, but it's not like they're the ones picking folks in the mayor's cabinet. 

Edited October 20, 20213 yr by GISguy
Wording was confusing

50 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Huh? Isn't he a full-time councilman (and council president)? Is this allowed? Aren't there lots of potential conflicts of interest working for a law firm in the city while also being in Council?

Yes, there are lots of potential conflicts and if he's ethical he would be very careful to avoid them. That doesn't mean you can't do both, it just requires ears perked up. Porter Wright lists him as of counsel, so I'm not sure how much lawyering work he actually does, but I assume some.

On 10/13/2021 at 10:16 AM, Pugu said:

Half of the money of the $511M is already at City Hall and has been there a while. Why hasn't Jackson used it? For $250M he could have create a memorable legacy project as his last official act---broadband for everyone or something. Why hasn't he? Does he just not even bother these days? Typically all politicians want their legacy project before leaving office--and you'd think it would be especially true for one in office for 16 years.

 

On 10/13/2021 at 10:29 AM, KJP said:

Because you have to show to an investor (the feds) your plan on how you're going to invest it and how it will meet the goals and guidelines of how it supposed to be invested. You seem surprised that this is a little more complicated than giving spare change to a homeless person.

 

On 10/13/2021 at 11:00 AM, Pugu said:

Broadband deployment is an allowable use under the guidelines and it would make a giant impact for the city by narrowing the digital divide. The feds WANT the money to be spent as soon as possible as its part of the economic recovery AND aimed to help stop covid. It is actually less complicated than you are making it sound.

 

There is no requirement to show the feds how $ will be spent. In any event, the first $121M to be spent, council approval pending under city law (not federal) is nothing transformative at all.

 

"The City of Cleveland today announced fund distribution details for its portion of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) stimulus. In total, the City of Cleveland was allocated more than $511 million of ARPA funds – the eight largest award in the nation. Mayor Frank G. Jackson’s plan for spending $121 million of the city’s stimulus is currently being reviewed by Cleveland City Council under legislation (Ord. Number 843-2021). View the attachments announcing the specific projects and program descriptions in the legislation:

 

• Legislation  https://clecityhall.files.wordpress.com/2021/10/ord.-843-2021-arpa-legislation.pdf
• Building & Housing  https://clecityhall.files.wordpress.com/2021/10/bldg-housing-arpa-program-summary-2021.pdf
• Community Development and Economic Development  https://clecityhall.files.wordpress.com/2021/10/cd-ed-arpa-project-program-summary-2021-002.pdf

 

...To date, the city has received half of the total allocation. The second disbursement will come in mid-2022 and all the funds must be allocated by Dec. 31, 2024 and spent by Dec. 31, 2026."   (City of Cleveland)

 

The links above detail how the money will be spent. For example

 

Woodhill Choice Neighborhood- Affordable Housing  $3,000,000

Storefront Grants  $250,000

Shaker Square $10,000,000

Lead Safe Housing Fund Grants  $5,000,000

Warner and Swasey Affordable Housing Redevelopment  $2,000,000, etc....

 

No big, transformative project.

 

A single, big transformative project will benefit a smaller area. While none of these projects are exciting they will benefit a larger area of the city. It also frees up both public and private money that would otherwise be spent on things like lead pipe remediation or removing blighted housing to then be spent on higher uses. 

 

Also, because a lot of these things aren't exciting, I imagine it would be difficult to get financing for these projects or could deter development due to the additional costs. 

 

15 races to watch on Election Day

 

"...Election Day 2021 is an “off year” across the U.S., and it has mostly drawn attention to the competitive race for Virginia governor. But there are other races across the country that are worth watching — and offer a preview of the 2022 midterms...."

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/election-day-2021-governors-mayors-races-517145

 

Was at the OBCDC Annual Meeting tonight and Kevin was there. He went out of his way to bring up Issue 24. His campaign mgr (internal polling?) must've said this is his chance to win.

25 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Was at the OBCDC Annual Meeting tonight and Kevin was there. He went out of his way to bring up Issue 24. His campaign mgr (internal polling?) must've said this is his chance to win.

Of course....Kelley's core base is the remaining white CPD and CFD employees who haven't already moved out to Brunswick.  

11 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Of course....Kelley's core base is the remaining white CPD and CFD employees who haven't already moved out to Brunswick.  

Also known as the demographic who claims the confederate flag stands for history. Smh I’m still struggling to understand Basheer’s support for Kelley.

And that would be due to the council president...

 

 

28 minutes ago, KJP said:

And that would be due to the council president...

 

Do you have a copy of the proposed Complete and Green Streets Ordinance?  Maybe its held up for good reason. Would like to read it.

 

Sound of Ideas was talking about Issue 24 today. It dawned on me why Bibb supports it, even though it would limit his own authority over police if he should win. It's because he thinks it's a popular idea AND he doesn't really understand it (like most things), so he supports it. Just more evidence that he's clueless. If he wins tomorrow, we are in BIG trouble. 

32 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Sound of Ideas was talking about Issue 24 today. It dawned on me why Bibb supports it, even though it would limit his own authority over police if he should win. It's because he thinks it's a popular idea AND he doesn't really understand it (like most things), so he supports it. Just more evidence that he's clueless. If he wins tomorrow, we are in BIG trouble. 

 

I'm a lawyer that's read the full text of the bill, with 4 police union members in my family, and I support it. Like most things, reasonable people can disagree...

 

I already voted (for Bibb), and the first thing he did that actually rubbed me the wrong way was relocate his campaign watch party. It was supposed to be at Gordon Green in Detroit Shoreway, but was relocated in the last couple of days to an east side community center after his campaign got blow back for having it in an "uppity" part of town. I heard this second hand, but the person who told me about it is pretty reliable and knows the campaign well. 

 

With how much Ohio City and DS supported Bibb and showed up for him in the primary, I don't think having an event in the neighborhood should be bad optics. It's in Cleveland proper, it's not like he wanted it at Shaker Country Club or something. 

 

Anyways... I still have a lot of faith in him. I think his worst case scenario mayoral legacy seems him as the same kind of leader as Frank Jackson. His best case sees him as an innovative, business-minded, and thoughtful leader who helps propel Cleveland into a more forward-thinking form of governance. 

4 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

I'm a lawyer that's read the full text of the bill, with 4 police union members in my family, and I support it. Like most things, reasonable people can disagree...

 

I already voted (for Bibb), and the first thing he did that actually rubbed me the wrong way was relocate his campaign watch party. It was supposed to be at Gordon Green in Detroit Shoreway, but was relocated in the last couple of days to an east side community center after his campaign got blow back for having it in an "uppity" part of town. I heard this second hand, but the person who told me about it is pretty reliable and knows the campaign well. 

 

With how much Ohio City and DS supported Bibb and showed up for him in the primary, I don't think having an event in the neighborhood should be bad optics. It's in Cleveland proper, it's not like he wanted it at Shaker Country Club or something. 

 

 

Re Issue 24, no mayor should want it. Yes, we need police reform, but eliminating your own ability to get rid of officers--or lose good officers because regular folks who are not police experts say so--is outright silly. I think Bibb jumps on it because it SOUNDS good, but doesn't really understand what it means for him if he becomes mayor. I too, support, a better system of oversight and police accountability, but if Bibb were really a smart guy he wouldn't back 24. 

 

But the rest of your post is very telling. Thank you for sharing it. It underscores what I've been trying to say for months---Bibb is weak. He won't be able to stand up to shady developers or bad interests cause he doesn't know how and doesn't have the stomach for it. But worse, he doesn't always know what's bad. He's green. In the case above, he can't even stand up to his own supporters who are critical of something he wanted to do. And if he can't do that, how can he possible stand up to opposing groups or the state?

 

4 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Anyways... I still have a lot of faith in him. I think his worst case scenario mayoral legacy seems him as the same kind of leader as Frank Jackson. His best case sees him as an innovative, business-minded, and thoughtful leader who helps propel Cleveland into a more forward-thinking form of governance. 

 

I wish, but in the worst case, it doesn't leave Cleveland untouched or damaged. In the worst case, we will have long-term and potentially irreparable damage to the city. And he'd do it thinking he was doing good or he'd be steamrolled by something he didn't understand was bad and/or didn't have the chops and ability to fight. And that's the real danger with Bibb.

 

Bibb is Dennis the Sequel, but he's not as half as smart as Dennis. At least Dennis knew what was what even if we didn't like his methods.

 

5 hours ago, YABO713 said:

With how much Ohio City and DS supported Bibb and showed up for him in the primary, I don't think having an event in the neighborhood should be bad optics. It's in Cleveland proper, it's not like he wanted it at Shaker Country Club or something. 

 

It's a sad but a true part of Cleveland politics. You know one reason Frank Jackson has neglected the West Side Market is really for the same considerations. He's afraid of the optics of having food deserts all over town while he's pouring $ into a market in the "uppity" part of town. (Even though many people of all stripes use the WSM)

This "if Bibb were really a smart guy" statement is bothersome to me as it has undertones that are unnecessary!   Is Kelly a smart guy having served 8 years as counsel president and had the power to change the narrative for the city?  They are both smart, but have opposing views.  Tomorrow will tell a lot about who the people think is the smartest to lead the city moving forward!

8 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

 

It's a sad but a true part of Cleveland politics. 

 

Or like Keven Kelley blowing off a bus ride in favor of a SUV to a public transit advocacy group meeting. 

 

No politician is perfect.  But we do know 100% Kevin Kelley has been sitting on his hands for the past 8 years as council president, afraid to rock the boat.    Courage has been long absent in city hall.   Bibb is at least showing the courage to challenge the status quo.  

 

On 10/27/2021 at 8:16 AM, Clefan14 said:

Also known as the demographic who claims the confederate flag stands for history. Smh I’m still struggling to understand Basheer’s support for Kelley.

 

Weren't they allies on Council, more or less?

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

Re Issue 24, no mayor should want it. Yes, we need police reform, but eliminating your own ability to get rid of officers--or lose good officers because regular folks who are not police experts say so--is outright silly. I think Bibb jumps on it because it SOUNDS good, but doesn't really understand what it means for him if he becomes mayor. I too, support, a better system of oversight and police accountability, but if Bibb were really a smart guy he wouldn't back 24. 

 

But the rest of your post is very telling. Thank you for sharing it. It underscores what I've been trying to say for months---Bibb is weak. He won't be able to stand up to shady developers or bad interests cause he doesn't know how and doesn't have the stomach for it. But worse, he doesn't always know what's bad. He's green. In the case above, he can't even stand up to his own supporters who are critical of something he wanted to do. And if he can't do that, how can he possible stand up to opposing groups or the state?

 

 

I wish, but in the worst case, it doesn't leave Cleveland untouched or damaged. In the worst case, we will have long-term and potentially irreparable damage to the city. And he'd do it thinking he was doing good or he'd be steamrolled by something he didn't understand was bad and/or didn't have the chops and ability to fight. And that's the real danger with Bibb.

 

Bibb is Dennis the Sequel, but he's not as half as smart as Dennis. At least Dennis knew what was what even if we didn't like his methods.

 

 

"I think Bibb jumps on it because it SOUNDS good, but doesn't really understand what it means for him if he becomes mayor. "

True about most stances he's taken on the issues.

I'd like what I hear from Kelley, but his "experience" reminds me of what Ronald Reagan said about Jimmy Carter's.  Plus I figure I could toss the Terminal Tower further than I can trust him.

24's a loud No though.

https://www.thelandcle.org/stories/muddy-waters-issue-24-raises-heated-debate-about-police-accountability

 

"The proposed charter amendment would create a permanent Community Police Commission to replace the exiting commission that remains in effect only as long as the Consent Decree does. The new commission, made up of mayor-appointed representatives from various Cleveland communities and police organizations, would have the final say on police discipline, policies and training programs." 

 

So giving up some control of police oversight, but there's reason to think that's a good idea to maintain a good working relationship with the Police union given their influence in politics. And it will include members of police organizations. 

 

Either The Land's reporting is wrong, which is possible, or maybe some of us need to take another look at Issue 24?

1 hour ago, newyorker said:

This "if Bibb were really a smart guy" statement is bothersome to me as it has undertones that are unnecessary!   Is Kelly a smart guy having served 8 years as counsel president and had the power to change the narrative for the city?  They are both smart, but have opposing views.  Tomorrow will tell a lot about who the people think is the smartest to lead the city moving forward!

 

No. Tomorrow will tell who is more popular, not who is smarter. Remember a lot of people still vote along racial lines in this city and couldn't care less about platforms or issues or promises.

 

 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Or like Keven Kelley blowing off a bus ride in favor of a SUV to a public transit advocacy group meeting. 

 

No politician is perfect.  But we do know 100% Kevin Kelley has been sitting on his hands for the past 8 years as council president, afraid to rock the boat.    Courage has been long absent in city hall.   Bibb is at least showing the courage to challenge the status quo.  

 

 

I agree. City Hall has been visionless. Not much change from Kelley can be expected. But that's a lot SAFER than the damage that Bibb will do as he tries to--as he sees it---to make things better. He's clueless. I'm not a fan of Kelley, but I will take him in a heartbeat over Bibb. Tomorrow, I'm voting for Kelley, the far lesser of two evils, and who at least understands what is what and how the city functions.

 

 

31 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

"I think Bibb jumps on it because it SOUNDS good, but doesn't really understand what it means for him if he becomes mayor. "

True about most stances he's taken on the issues.

I'd like what I hear from Kelley, but his "experience" reminds me of what Ronald Reagan said about Jimmy Carter's.  Plus I figure I could toss the Terminal Tower further than I can trust him.

24's a loud No though.

 

Fully agree on all of this!

 

16 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

https://www.thelandcle.org/stories/muddy-waters-issue-24-raises-heated-debate-about-police-accountability

 

"The proposed charter amendment would create a permanent Community Police Commission to replace the exiting commission that remains in effect only as long as the Consent Decree does. The new commission, made up of mayor-appointed representatives from various Cleveland communities and police organizations, would have the final say on police discipline, policies and training programs." 

 

So giving up some control of police oversight, but there's reason to think that's a good idea to maintain a good working relationship with the Police union given their influence in politics. And it will include members of police organizations. 

 

Either The Land's reporting is wrong, which is possible, or maybe some of us need to take another look at Issue 24?

 

The commission would have appointees by the mayor and some from council. But these aren't police or public safety or HR or human rights specialists. They're just people who are owed a favor from the mayor or council. Final decisions about public safety or people's careers should not be made by these guys; they should be made by professionals or the commander in charge, which is the mayor.  

11 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

The commission would have appointees by the mayor and some from council. But these aren't police or public safety or HR or human rights specialists. They're just people who are owed a favor from the mayor or council. Final decisions about public safety or people's careers should not be made by these guys; they should be made by professionals or the commander in charge, which is the mayor.  

 

1) you're moving the goal posts. Your initial concern was that the commission would be made up of "regular folk who are not police experts". I give you evidence that police organizations will have representation and say, "oh well these will just be corrupt political appointees anyway". 

 

2) You ignored half the argument that there is good reason for these responsibilities go be distanced from the Mayor. 

Edited November 2, 20213 yr by Luke_S

39 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

https://www.thelandcle.org/stories/muddy-waters-issue-24-raises-heated-debate-about-police-accountability

 

"The proposed charter amendment would create a permanent Community Police Commission to replace the exiting commission that remains in effect only as long as the Consent Decree does. The new commission, made up of mayor-appointed representatives from various Cleveland communities and police organizations, would have the final say on police discipline, policies and training programs." 

 

So giving up some control of police oversight, but there's reason to think that's a good idea to maintain a good working relationship with the Police union given their influence in politics. And it will include members of police organizations. 

 

Either The Land's reporting is wrong, which is possible, or maybe some of us need to take another look at Issue 24?

I have serious concerns about a candidate who wants to get more police yet supports Issue 24.  From every account, if Issue 24 passes, not only will it take away potential police funding, but it will cause a mass exodus of officers on the job.  Even if half of the rumored number of officers quit/retire from CPD if Issue 24 passes, having a department is already down 200 officers, there will be no way to get enough "officers out from behind desks" to protect the community.  Staffing will further plummet and the prospects of job constraints will deter many from even looking at joining CPD.  The staffing gaps will not be filled and most of the best possible candidates won't even consider joining CPD.  Police academy classes will not be filled, so graduation classes won't even keep pace with normal attrition.  There could even be more cadets that wash out or be borderline at best.  Facing a further depleted department, the city will be "fortunate" to keep crime and violence numbers even where they are at today.  Don't want to think about the other possibility.  It could end up being a disaster for the city.

 

It is not that I feel that everything is good with CPD.  It is not.  More money and effort need to go into screening and training officers.  When things are going poorly or may be heading into the wrong direction, have the trained people available to detect and help correct the situation.  However, having officers who become afraid of shadows will adversely affect their ability to do their jobs even if they do every single thing correct.  If that influences them too much, they won't be able to do their jobs.  Where will the city be then?  

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Or like Keven Kelley blowing off a bus ride in favor of a SUV to a public transit advocacy group meeting. 

 

No politician is perfect.  But we do know 100% Kevin Kelley has been sitting on his hands for the past 8 years as council president, afraid to rock the boat.    Courage has been long absent in city hall.   Bibb is at least showing the courage to challenge the status quo.  

 

 

 

I don't know if you detected some sort of anti-Bibb message in what I said, but I'm very pro-Bibb and I think the whole "uppity part of town" dynamic is really unfortunate... I was just pointing out that the dynamic does in fact exist.

Edited November 2, 20213 yr by mu2010

Bibb lives on the 29th floor of the Lumen? Yeah, he's a man of the people.

If there is a “mass exodus” of officers due to the SLIGHTEST bit of accountability and oversight, thank the lord. The cops that live in Brunswick can go right ahead, I’ll open the door.

24 minutes ago, Clefan14 said:

If there is a “mass exodus” of officers due to the SLIGHTEST bit of accountability and oversight, thank the lord. The cops that live in Brunswick can go right ahead, I’ll open the door.

For one, issue #24 isn't "the SLIGHTEST bit of accountability and oversight".  Second, what will be left of the police department that is already significantly understaffed?  Will response times that already may take hours turn into days or not at all?  Will the crime closure rate plummet?  Perhaps you haven't noticed, but in many cities where the police department, the crime and violence problem has become significantly worse.  If you think that you are "safe" because you don't live or venture into Cleveland, think again.  Suburban or out-of-county police departments already break of pursuits if they cross into Cleveland as they will not have any support from CPD.  It is turning Cleveland into a safe haven for criminals and they are "smart enough" to know this.  Commit a crime in Brunswick, hop on I-71, flee at a high rate of speed.  Cross into Cleveland and escape has happened.

 

If a mayoral candidate is naive enough that delivering on a pledge to expand the police department while backing an issue that will further deplete the size, then people need to need to question the ability to deliver on what will ultimately become unachievable.  Hasn't Cleveland seen enough of empty promises to hire more police officers like Jackson stated when he was pushing for that last tax increase?  It ended up being a play on words has he knew more needed to be hired to replace those he knew were leaving due to retirements and other forms of attrition.  Since then, the department has contracted in size and the city has seen crime rise to historic levels.  2020 saw the highest per capita homicide rate based upon population in the city's history.  Please explain how fewer police will improve the situation.

   

People love to demonize the police due to a few bad ones in various departments.  They have no use for them until they need them.

CPD desperately needs reform. I believe that one of the major recruiting headwinds is the awful culture - why would a good person want to work for a department with such a poor relationship with the community? The history of protecting cops with who have multiple complaints against them needs to end. At least some, if not most, of the people threatening to quit are the people that CPD should be getting rid of anyway. Good riddance. 

 

Think about the meaning of the old saying “a few bad apples spoil the bushel.” I’m convinced there are plenty of cops who are otherwise good people who refuse to speak out against bad behavior because they know they’ll get blackballed. That needs to end. 
 

A reformed CPD that establishes good relationships with the community it works for will have a much easier time recruiting new officers from that community. The reforms in Camden and Trenton have been successful, and I look forward to similar improvements happening in the CPD. 

The "Bibb isn't smart" attacks seem a little vitriolic? I'm not a huge fan of Kevin Kelley but I don't think he's a moron... 

 

Bibb's worked with KeyBanc Capital Markets, went to the London School of Economics, and graduated with honors - I'm not sure those check marks usually equate to someone that's unintelligent. Unless you're saying his advancement is due to something other than merit or intelligence, at which point this starts to sound an awful lot like a dog whistle. 

11 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

No. Tomorrow will tell who is more popular, not who is smarter. Remember a lot of people still vote along racial lines in this city and couldn't care less about platforms or issues or promises.

 

I'm sorry but I just can't let this point slide (again).  People like @jrosen, Graham Veysey,  Brent Zimmerman, etc, with a lot of skin and even MORE $$$ tied up to the success or failure of Cleveland are full-throated behind Bibb.  Do you really think they would be swayed by a popularity contest in spite of their own personal and economic self interests?

 

I am not certain that Bibb is the second coming or the messiah or Barack Obama or etc, etc. I think most Bibb supporters here have acknowledged there are some areas in which he could have more experience (which you could say the same about Kelley and basically every other politician) but on balance believe he is the better candidate.   Most of us didn't know him from Adam 12 months ago -- which one could ascribe as one of his weaknesses -- but he has done an effective job in convincing us of his merits without any previous allegiances or baggage.  I think that says a lot.  

 

In contrast, much like the 2016 Never Hillary crowd,  you are VERY certain that he will be the assured downfall of Cleveland, with nary any evidence to back that up.  Again, what do you know that the above individuals (and the editorial board of the Plain Dealer, Crain's (talk about a bastion of conservative and business Cleveland), etc, etc) do not?

 

I think if you would lift your kimono a little bit and provide some context for your zealotry against Bibb (which really does come across as over the top) it would establish some credibility and perhaps strengthen your argument.  Otherwise, the anti-Bibb passion without much more than "listen to his words" reads like you're either Kevin himself, or a family member.  

Edited November 2, 20213 yr by brtshrcegr

1 hour ago, Clefan14 said:

If there is a “mass exodus” of officers due to the SLIGHTEST bit of accountability and oversight, thank the lord. The cops that live in Brunswick can go right ahead, I’ll open the door.

 

Absolutely concur.  Why should police officers, or any public servant, be afraid of accountability to the public?  If they are, that is -- what police might call -- a clue!

 

Let the "few bad apples" quit, in that case.  The whole bunch that is not hopefully spoiled has nothing to fear, and they realize they will be a stronger, more capable, and more effective force because of it.  Just like police unions -- No, it should not be the job of the FOP to defend every bad cop out there without exception,  nor should that be the role of the UAW to its members.  They should fierecely defend the rights and responsibilities of duly sworn officers that uphold the honor of a department and their profession, and lead the charge to get the bad cops out of the ranks, like that Dayton cop in the Policing thread. I can't think of any higher order for a union.  

Edited November 2, 20213 yr by brtshrcegr

8 hours ago, Pugu said:

Bibb lives on the 29th floor of the Lumen? Yeah, he's a man of the people.

 

All his campaign filings have been for 1717 E. 9th St., your hate for Bibb is something else and really, really tiring.

12 hours ago, Pugu said:

Tomorrow, I'm voting for Kelley, the far lesser of two evils, and who at least understands what is what and how the city functions

You must not live in Cleveland.  The city doesn't "function."   It reacts.  To everything.   

 

Even the most basic services require constituents begging their council people to get things done.   I am voting for Bibb in the hopes that he cleans house and tries to change the status quo.  

2 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Even the most basic services require constituents begging their council people to get things done. 

 Coincidentally, this is covered extensively in today's episode of Ideastream's After Jackson podcast: