Early voting in Cleveland starts tomorrow, much to my chagrin as I stopped by the BOE today to vote.... 

I'm here

Edited October 7, 20213 yr by mu2010

 

@misterjoshr - Thank you for hosting a great event tonight!  It was a pleasure to meet you.

@mu2010 - Thanks for introducing yourself.  I enjoyed meeting you and your friends.

D*ck Pace and Graham Veysey were in attendance.  I had a nice conversation w Dan Whalen - he's very friendly.  He sees the potential in this city and is doing something to build it up.  He emphasized the importance of just getting more residents - as many as possible.

Justin gave a nice speech.  It's just so refreshing to have a local politician actually inspiring hope.

 

Early voting in Cleveland starts tomorrow!

7 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

@misterjoshr - Thank you for hosting a great event tonight!  It was a pleasure to meet you.

@mu2010 - Thanks for introducing yourself.  I enjoyed meeting you and your friends.

D*ck Pace and Graham Veysey were in attendance.  I had a nice conversation w Dan Whalen - he's very friendly.  He sees the potential in this city and is doing something to build it up.  He emphasized the importance of just getting more residents - as many as possible.

Justin gave a nice speech.  It's just so refreshing to have a local politician actually inspiring hope.

 

Early voting in Cleveland starts tomorrow!

 

Nice to meet you, too!

On 10/7/2021 at 5:30 AM, mu2010 said:

 

Nice to meet you, too!

Thanks for introducing yourself and thank you for coming!

2 hours ago, misterjoshr said:

Thanks for introducing yourself and thank you for coming!

 

Thank you for hosting, it was a fun evening.

Cleveland mayoral history - when Kunicich won at 30 years old, his opponent in the general was 29.

 

 

 

A reminder that the CLE mayoral debate is tonight at 7:30

 

https://www.ideastream.org/cleveland-mayoral-debate-justin-bibb-vs-kevin-kelley

Thanks for the reminder. Was able to catch it on the radio. I've tweeted about it but I really don't think KK did himself many favors with his tone and condescending nature. I think Bibb did a good job of pushing back when his experience was questioned- I also enjoyed his quip about everyone who has endorsed him "they think I know something about govt" - I wish I was able to see KKs reaction bc that had to cut. 

 

I was listening as a Bibb voter but I'm looking forward to the neutral recap on SOI tomorrow.

 

Regardless of my support for JB I really don't think KK did much to bring in voters to his camp. Talking about the referendum, it seems like he's just going to shore up existing support in the "cop" neighborhoods, not new supporters. 

 

It's been a long day so sorry if this doesn't make sense. 

I didn't think either candidate did themselves any favors, personally. 

 

I actually thought that endorsement quip looked childish. Kelley was saying bibb was factually wrong and bibb didn't reply with a substantive answer. 

 

I want some discussion on how specific resources will be allocated to achieve specific goals and we haven't gotten too much of that from either candidate so far.

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by Whipjacka

21 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Thanks for the reminder. Was able to catch it on the radio. I've tweeted about it but I really don't think KK did himself many favors with his tone and condescending nature. I think Bibb did a good job of pushing back when his experience was questioned- I also enjoyed his quip about everyone who has endorsed him "they think I know something about govt" - I wish I was able to see KKs reaction bc that had to cut. 

 

I was listening as a Bibb voter but I'm looking forward to the neutral recap on SOI tomorrow.

 

Regardless of my support for JB I really don't think KK did much to bring in voters to his camp. Talking about the referendum, it seems like he's just going to shore up existing support in the "cop" neighborhoods, not new supporters. 

 

It's been a long day so sorry if this doesn't make sense. 

I agree.  Watched the entire thing on ideastream (which is up via the same link above for replays now).  Kelly has a scowl on his face and seems totally condescending when talking to Bibb.   

 

As I watched it, I couldn't help but cringe at Kevin talking about his vision for the future of Cleveland's city technology and other backwards management style,yet he's sat in council for years and did nothing about the 25 year old website, the West Side Market, Hopkins airport etc etc.  

I watched the whole thing as well. I thought it was very painful to watch Bibb. Kelley called him out several times rightfully that Bibb didn't really understand how city government works. And on three (i think) occasions when Bibb had no defense or anything else to say completely out of context he would say something to the effect of 'Kelley hates Democracy' which just sounded stupid and was glaringly just filler. It was like the Trumpies saying that Dems hate America. It was clear that Bibb was more visionary---but it was only that--there was no substance. Kelley seemed more grounded in reality. Bibb said "beef up" alot and one time twice in the same sentence. When talking about "beefing up" the homicide unit of CPD, Kelley had to explain what all that entails because Bibb made it clear he had no clue. Bibb offered a lot of buzzwords without anything substance behind them. Kelley offered real insight on how the city works. And I agree with @Whipjackaabove that when Bibb out of nowhere said that he had the endorsements of the PD and Crains it looked really childish and very unpolished. If people just vote on buzzwords like 'need a change' Bibb will win and he has amassed a big following. But as I've said before, please LISTEN to what he says when he opens his mouth. If you do, there's no way it makes sense to vote for him. However, most people do not analyze what is being said and don't really assess who is a better candidate. And for that, I think Bibb will win and it will be a wasted four years in the city while things continue to go south. I haven't given up hope yet, but if the primary is any indication of how things will turn out come November, it looks like we have to wait until 2025 to get a competent leader. I encourage everyone on this board to listen to the full debate so you can hear for yourselves what I am saying. And please REALLY listen to what is being said.

Kelley's condescension was unbearable. It's clear he and his allies on council are offended that they have to go on defense against this newcomer and they can barely hide their disdain. KK must be good at one-on-one conversations because he's not really a very good public speaker at all, so how has he been getting elected for all this time? My main takeaway from the debate was just that Kelley isn't very charismatic.

 

Kelley, fairly or not (perhaps a little of both), has to implicitly defend all actions taken over 16 years of Frank Jackson. Not a good place to be as a candidate. He's highly annoyed by that and feels it's his turn. But ultimately he doesn't make any kind of substantive case for voting for him other than pandering/fearmongering to people against the police reform stuff.

 

There's plenty of truth to the argument that Bibb isn't just going to waltz into city hall and fix everything instantly. He's going to hit the same obstacles and bureaucratic and other resistance that Kelley and Jackson and all the rest have faced over the years. Some things actually are far easier said than done. I still support Bibb but wow did Kelley do a poor job of articulating and communicating that kernel of truth in his argument. Instead he just came off like a jerk.

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by mu2010

Oh look, Pugu's comparing Bibb to Trump again.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

8 hours ago, mu2010 said:

Kelley's condescension was unbearable. It's clear he and his allies on council are offended that they have to go on defense against this newcomer and… he just came off like a jerk.

My thoughts exactly. Entitled and arrogant. 

9 hours ago, Pugu said:

1)Kelley offered real insight on how the city works.

 

2)However, most people do not analyze what is being said and don't really assess who is a better candidate. And for that, I think Bibb will win and it will be a wasted four years in the city while things continue to go south.

 

3)I encourage everyone on this board to listen to the full debate so you can hear for yourselves what I am saying. And please REALLY listen to what is being said.

1) He offered real insight into how the city works by claiming change is "hard" if you want to count words, count how many times Kelley said something was hard (in a condescending tone). Instead of offering to analyze or change processes he just said it was hard and that Bibb had no idea how hard it was. I don't want a leader who's going to claim things are hard and refuse to acknowledge why they may be hard (or that they might be part of the process in making them overly difficult). City processes need reviewed and changed, I don't want someone saying it's too hard to change things (that's the insight he offered). Kelley literally has years of experience on council and instead of being humble, acknowledging fault, or pledging to change things he just reiterated reasons why I won't be voting for him.  

 

2)

 

3) I think most people in this thread did listen to the debate and did REALLY listen to "what is being said" and came to a completely different conclusion from yours- par for the course, I guess.  

 

Visionary leadership is needed in city and county (look at what's been done in Pittsburgh/Allegheny County for an example), Kelley and Budish would be a pairing that only the political dinos would love. 

I just watched and Kelly came off as angry to me!  Bibb is a better communicator and seemed to irritate Kelly.  I do not at all see a path forward for Kelly to win this election.

Like I figured, people watched different debates... I didn't hear a condescending tone from Kelley, from the portion I watched, he seemed refreshingly honest to me. I appreciate it when politicians don't over promise and are up front with what they can and can't get done, especially when it comes from a position of actually knowing what they're talking about. 

 

My impression was Bibb was largely unsubstantiative and full of buzz words, (clearly the better speaker though), but as I alluded to earlier, I had other things to do and couldn't justify spending my time finishing a debate for which I've already made up my mind. 

 

Everyone filters these debates through their own bias. 

I watched it this morning and did listen to what is being said. Kelly seems like the younger angsty teenager type while Bibb was the more professional adult in the room.

9 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Everyone filters these debates through their own bias. 

True.   But a filter doesn't take away the fact that Kelley has presided over council, and let all the problems in the city continue to fester and grow.   He is a reactionary thinker.  Let a problem happen...then maybe the city will have to respond and fix it.   

 

The first thing Bibb should do is clean house in all the "management" roles at city hall that are filled with lackeys and political appointments (starting with Darnell Brown, a former meter reader that somehow is COO of the city).   It's their lack of vision that keeps Cleveland from entering the 21st century, let along providing basic services to its residents.  

1 minute ago, Cleburger said:

True.   But a filter doesn't take away the fact that Kelley has presided over council, and let all the problems in the city continue to fester and grow.   He is a reactionary thinker.  Let a problem happen...then maybe the city will have to respond and fix it.   

 

 

 

This 1000x

17 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

True.   But a filter doesn't take away the fact that Kelley has presided over council, and let all the problems in the city continue to fester and grow.   He is a reactionary thinker.  Let a problem happen...then maybe the city will have to respond and fix it.   

 

The first thing Bibb should do is clean house in all the "management" roles at city hall that are filled with lackeys and political appointments (starting with Darnell Brown, a former meter reader that somehow is COO of the city).   It's their lack of vision that keeps Cleveland from entering the 21st century, let along providing basic services to its residents.  

 

I agree that Bibb (or anyone) should clean house. But of all the lofty things Bibb has said he would do----hire a ____ "czar" to overlook _____; hire a racial equity officer to oversee all contracts; "beef" up the homicide unit; etc; etc--the one thing I have NOT heard him say is that he would do the very basic thing that is needed and that is to clean house. Does he want to? I'm sure he does. But he can't and maybe he knows he can't.  

 

Regarding any condescension in Kelley's tone, I did not hear it, but if its there, I get it. He's faced with what is like a child who doesn't really understand things and says things that reflect that, yet he has gotten real traction. Like I've said before, we'll be getting the Kucinich of the 2020s--but less smart. As they say, history repeats itself....

 

38 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Like I figured, people watched different debates... I didn't hear a condescending tone from Kelley, from the portion I watched, he seemed refreshingly honest to me. I appreciate it when politicians don't over promise and are up front with what they can and can't get done, especially when it comes from a position of actually knowing what they're talking about. 

 

My impression was Bibb was largely unsubstantiative and full of buzz words, (clearly the better speaker though)...

 

I agree 1000%.

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

I appreciate it when politicians don't over promise and are up front with what they can and can't get done, especially when it comes from a position of actually knowing what they're talking about. 

 

I appreciate this in certain contexts, but not in the 2021 Cleveland Mayoral Race. And that's because Cleveland's existing political class, represented by Kelley, suffers from many constraints that exist only in their minds, their own lack of vision (or their own laziness) is what's holding us back on a lot of these issues, more than any real constraint. Most of what Bibb is talking about are things that can be done and have already been done elsewhere. His most spot on answer of the night was when he talked about Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon and how we need to do better and retaining CWRU grads. Only reason that hasn't happened is that city leaders have been asleep at the wheel. Because their myopia keeps them focused on parochial ward issues and turf wars instead of seeing the big picture.

 

(One of the nice things about Bibb is he's actually lived and worked in other places, giving him a perspective that's sorely lacking in the Jackson/Kelley gang).

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by mu2010

^Keeping CWRU grads in town is more than just meeting with Case's president, as Bibb said he would do---its having jobs and job growth opportunities in the city--which is beyond the purview of Case. Kelley's response was far more holistic on that issue. 

 

Also, remember, last night Bibb called Dayton and Toledo our peers. How's that for vision and aspirational thinking? 

9 minutes ago, Pugu said:

which is beyond the purview of Case.

 

No, it's not. Universities have played a large role in regional economic development in other regions, not here. Again because leaders at CWRU historically have a parochial turf war mentality (like their counterparts at city hall) and have only worried about their campus. 

17 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

 

Also, remember, last night Bibb called Dayton and Toledo our peers. How's that for vision and aspirational thinking? 

Ouch

4 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

 

No, it's not. Universities have played a large role in regional economic development in other regions, not here. Again because leaders at CWRU historically have a parochial turf war mentality (like their counterparts at city hall) and have only worried about their campus. 

 

Universities have---but the issues are much bigger than what they can or are actually willing to do. Case did have the REI but an incoming president killed it 10-20 years ago.

 

I genuinely want to better understand the view that more of people like Kevin Kelley, who have had positions of power for some time now in the area will lead to any change. Looking at our peer cities (like mentioned above, Pittsburgh) is clear they are years ahead of us in many key ways and that Cleveland has had dozens of huge missed opportunities due to sleeping and boomer mentality talking about “the good old days”.

5 minutes ago, Clefan14 said:

I genuinely want to better understand the view that more of people like Kevin Kelley, who have had positions of power for some time now in the area will lead to any change. Looking at our peer cities (like mentioned above, Pittsburgh) is clear they are years ahead of us in many key ways and that Cleveland has had dozens of huge missed opportunities due to sleeping and boomer mentality talking about “the good old days”.

 

"Change" is not always positive. "Change" can also be bad. Under Kelley will there be DRASTIC POSITIVE changes in the years ahead? No--he's not a visionary and we can see what he has or hasn't done. Its been slow and limited, but he has skillfully pushed through things for the better like the LGBQT legislation. But Kelley style change is better than the alternative:  DRASTIC NEGATIVE changes that we would see under Bibb if he is able to do anything at all.

4 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

"Change" is not always positive. "Change" can also be bad. Under Kelley will there be DRASTIC POSITIVE changes in the years ahead? No--he's not a visionary and we can see what he has or hasn't done. Its been slow and limited, but he has skillfully pushed through things for the better like the LGBQT legislation. But Kelley style change is better than the alternative:  DRASTIC NEGATIVE changes that we would see under Bibb if he is able to do anything at all.

Is this Kelly's burner account?

5 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Is this Kelly's burner account?

 

Yeah, must be right? How else could you explain how someone could not be on the Trump-style Bibb bandwagon. Forget what's logical or good for the nation or city, just vote for Trump or Bibb!

2 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Yeah, must be right? How else could you explain how someone could not be on the Trump-style Bibb bandwagon. Forget what's logical or good for the nation or city, just vote for Trump or Bibb!

Please read your posts from the past few weeks/months explaining how wrong it could be to vote Bibb and explain to me how we are the illogical ones.

How 'bout we discuss that Mayoral Race, instead of Pugu?

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

Under Kelley will there be DRASTIC POSITIVE changes in the years ahead? No--he's not a visionary and we can see what he has or hasn't done.

 

Exactly what Cleveland doesn't need at a time like this.

 

Our city and it's people deserve a visionary leader with big ideas and someone who can sell us on a national stage, not someone who claims it's too hard to change or think beyond the excuse of bureaucracy. 

 

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by GISguy

2 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Our city and it's people deserve a visionary leader with big ideas and someone who can sell us on a national stage.

 

You should say "sell us" WITH CREDIBILITY "on a national stage". That's certainly not Bibb.  

 

My point is, Kelley is less "visionary" than Bibb--but he has made slow positive changes from where he could in Council (remember, he is/was not mayor). Kelley can continue to make positive changes and likely more quickly being the mayor vs council president.  Bibb can talk about grand ideas, but they're not necessarily implementable. I'll take slow/medium positive changes (by Kelley) over no change or negative change which is what we would get from someone clueless like Bibb. 

1 hour ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Please read your posts from the past few weeks/months explaining how wrong it could be to vote Bibb and explain to me how we are the illogical ones.

 

As I've said countless times, LISTEN to what Bibb is saying. Really LISTEN.  If your point and approach here is "so many of us here can't be wrong--so it must be you [Pugu]" do note that 74.2 million ---  74.2 million! -- people voted for Trump in 2020--that is AFTER he had been office for four years so people knew what he was about. So just because a large number of people think one way doesn't mean its in support of a good thing or the right thing. He just said the things that some people like to hear and they eat it up.

1 hour ago, X said:

How 'bout we discuss that Mayoral Race, instead of Pugu?

 

Thanks @X.  The mayoral race is the most pressing issue in the city at the moment. The focus should be on the candidates and their capabilities, not on me--thanks for trying to keeping the critical discussion on track.

10 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

As I've said countless times, LISTEN to what Bibb is saying. Really LISTEN.  If your point and approach here is "so many of us here can't be wrong--so it must be you [Pugu]" do note that 74.2 million ---  74.2 million! -- people voted for Trump in 2020--that is AFTER he had been office for four years so people knew what he was about. So just because a large number of people think one way doesn't mean its in support of a good thing or the right thing. He just said the things that some people like to hear and they eat it up.

Yes, you continue to repeat yourself with the same thought over and over again. Bibb is nothing like Trump. Respects all, eager to learn and improve, and open to innovation and new ideas. Kelly and Jackson cannot say that. Id like to have some progressive thinking for once.

1 hour ago, X said:

How 'bout we discuss that Mayoral Race, instead of Pugu?

Ok i will stop. The constant same comment over and over again gets really oid and stale though.

Maybe we should just start mentioning every few comments how Kevin Kelley is our version of Mitch McConnell: an obstructionist, career politician with next to nothing to show for it, who displays complete and utter contempt for his constituents 

I'm 32 and have lived in the city for ~6 years. In that time I've become one of the biggest cheerleaders for this place, have gotten involved, etc. etc., but it's a very tough sell when our leaders are indifferent and can't see our peer cities running laps around us.

 

Try selling Pittsburgh or Cleveland to someone for a weekend getaway and they'll most likely end up in Pittsburgh. I just flew back from Baltimore last week and needed a charge for my cell when I got to CLE/after grabbing my bag and the only outlet I was able to snag was for the luggage carts (yes, I unplugged the cart machine to charge my phone). I bike (when I don't have a broken collar bone) everywhere around the city and our bike lanes and connectivity are literally the laughingstock of the nation (I'll dig up the article if you want proof). Our recycling program has been shut down for years and we only found out about it because of a cleveland dot com article. We're the least connected city in the nation and until COVID hit, nobody seemed to care. CPP outages happen all the time in Kevin's ward (I'm right on the border in Anthony B's), and crickets.

 

Lack of vision or lack of giving an eff about our reputation and going it alone out of spite is what is wrong with this city. Outlets at the airport is kind of a bizarre example, but it also reflects upon the city leadership who put the airport commissioners in their positions, we don't need a billion dollar makeover to do simple aesthetic improvements/outlets aren't a luxury in 2021. There are no consequences to having lackluster things here ("it is what it is") and I want that to change. I want to be proud of where I live and have a leader who's happy to cheerlead and drum up support from the amazing people of this city and beyond.

 

Kevin Kelley hasn't shown the ability to do this or a desire to do anything but continue his tenure on council, albeit in a much more powerful role. You earn a vote, you don't deserve a vote because of your past.

The past couple of weeks I figured no matter who wins, Cleveland was in for an upgrade. But after watching Kelley's obnoxious and condescending tone last night I don't know if that's true anymore. At least Frank Jackson has a certain charm about him!

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

Thanks @X.  The mayoral race is the most pressing issue in the city at the moment. The focus should be on the candidates and their capabilities, not on me--thanks for trying to keeping the critical discussion on track.

 

And you need to keep from repeating yourself over and over again. 

 

It takes two to tango- someone with an axe to grind, over and over ad infinitum, and someone else to keep taking the bait.

JUSTIN BIBB LEADS KEVIN KELLEY IN BW CRI MAYORAL POLL; 40% STILL UNDECIDED

 

October 12, 2021

by Shawn Salamone and Tom Sutton

 

A new survey of Cleveland registered voters conducted Sept. 27-Oct. 8 by the Baldwin Wallace University Community Research Institute (CRI) finds nonprofit executive Justin Bibb leading Cleveland City Council President Kevin Kelley, 34%-25%, but a big 40% of respondents remain undecided with the mayoral election about three weeks away. 

 

https://www.bw.edu/news/2021/fall/10-justin-bibb-leads-kevin-kelley-in-bw-cri-mayoral-poll-40-still-undecided

2 hours ago, Pugu said:

My point is, Kelley is less "visionary" than Bibb--but he has made slow positive changes from where he could in Council (remember, he is/was not mayor).

Kelley was the PRESIDENT of Council.  I'm not aware of any positive changes at all that Kelley took a leadership role with.  Please list them? 

 

Slow changes?  I can name a few.   He stood by while our recycling program went away slowly.  He has overseen the slow decline of the West Side Market.   He was in office when a tax increase was passed to increase services to its citizens, while slowly they've all gotten worse.   Kelley was Council President when the DOJ slapped our police department with a Consent Decree, and also when the FAA levied huge fines against Hopkins Airport for letting their SIP program slowly go by the wayside.  The only thing not moving slowly under Kevin Kelley have been the dirt bikes and ATVs racing around our streets and sidewalks.  

 

If this is Kevin's SLOW, then I'd hate to see his FAST.  😀

19 minutes ago, GISguy said:

JUSTIN BIBB LEADS KEVIN KELLEY IN BW CRI MAYORAL POLL; 40% STILL UNDECIDED

 

October 12, 2021

by Shawn Salamone and Tom Sutton

 

A new survey of Cleveland registered voters conducted Sept. 27-Oct. 8 by the Baldwin Wallace University Community Research Institute (CRI) finds nonprofit executive Justin Bibb leading Cleveland City Council President Kevin Kelley, 34%-25%, but a big 40% of respondents remain undecided with the mayoral election about three weeks away. 

 

https://www.bw.edu/news/2021/fall/10-justin-bibb-leads-kevin-kelley-in-bw-cri-mayoral-poll-40-still-undecided

 

Nice to know where the race stands three weeks out. This was a poll of registered voters, not likely voters though.

 

Wonder how things would shift if the poll was conducted with only likely voters. My guess is that undecided would come down significantly. 

Another interesting takeaway: Bibb leads in every demographic breakdown of the survey. 

State Senator Nickie Antonio endorses Bibb.