36 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Those aren't unifying aspects.  Religion is a faction, the others are very small factions.

 

What semi-unifies the right is a mistrust of government.  Which parts of the left share to a degree, though they distrust corporations more.

 

The mistrust of government really creates one of the biggest divides between the left and right - the left wants the government to do more to solve problems, the right wants them to do less - i.e. get out of the way so people can solve their own problems.

 

I think all people inherently lean towards one of these two extremes: yearning to be taken care of vs. yearning to be free. These drives are what lead to the feelings of trust/mistrust you bring up, and the desire for the government to do more/do less.

yearning to be free... to shackle others. You forgot the second part.

52 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

The difference is the left believes what they hear and read from professors, scientists, doctors, health experts and historians....aka smart people.

 

The left picks and chooses the "smart" people they want to follow. The left is just as much anti-science as many on the right and vice versa. There are just as many examples of the left ignoring the science as the right. There is also just as many examples of the left uniting around hate as the right. I do not think it is appropriate to draw those extremes because it just makes the left look like a bunch of hypocrites. 

37 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

 

 

I think all people inherently lean towards one of these two extremes: yearning to be taken care of vs. yearning to be free. These drives are what lead to the feelings of trust/mistrust you bring up, and the desire for the government to do more/do less.

 

This probably the biggest fallacy that radical rights believe in.

 

Red states reliance on federal and states funds is WAY higher than blue states --> https://sipanews.fiu.edu/2021/03/24/2021s-most-least-federally-dependent-states/

 

Can you post anything that isn't riddled with lies?

So how about that 2022 U.S. Senate race?

21 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

There are just as many examples of the left ignoring the science as the right.

 

hahahaha

 

Name some then!

2 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

hahahaha

 

Name some then!

 

Sometimes I think I'm being overly dramatic with the big red text telling people to get back on topic.  Then I post in normal text and people ignore it.  Back on topic.

3 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

The mistrust of government really creates one of the biggest divides between the left and right - the left wants the government to do more to solve problems, the right wants them to do less - i.e. get out of the way so people can solve their own problems.

No.  The Right does include libertarians, but the Republican party is not anti-government intervention.  Remember the Republican push for the government to intervene on behalf of Terry Schiavo?  And the ever-present intervention of the government between a woman and her doctor on abortion?  Gay marriage?

 

The Republican Senate candidates are all asking for more government action to keep out immigrants, prevent women and doctors from abortions, and to favor oil&gas subsidies over renewable energy industries.  Oh, many of them want to prevent government from even asking citizens to take any care for their community by masking, vaccinating, or social distancing.  (Shame on Governor DeWine!)

Joe isn't wrong.
 

These GQP Senate candidates, or traitors, are an embarrassment to real Ohioans. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 20223 yr by Clefan98

12 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Those aren't unifying aspects.  Religion is a faction, the others are very small factions.

 

What semi-unifies the right is a mistrust of government.  Which parts of the left share to a degree, though they distrust corporations more.

 

incorrect and you know it. clearly those are very much also foundational and unifying factors for all republicans and consevatives. 

 

11 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

Joe isn't wrong.
 

These GQP Senate candidates, or traitors, are an embarrassment to real Ohioans. 

 

 

I will say, I see the commercials Mike Gibbons has been running attacking JD Vance and my wife and I comment how those commercials only make us more inclined to support Vance and make Gibbons look like an even bigger clown than he is. Also speaking of Gibbons, running a campaign based on his former football glory as a high school and DIII football star is akin to Al Bundy running for public office.  

Edited January 6, 20223 yr by Brutus_buckeye

^ I'm sure the Silicon Valley venture capitalist has Ohio's best interest in his heart 😂

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

I will say, I see the commercials Mike Gibbons has been running attacking JD Vance and my wife and I comment how those commercials only make us more inclined to support Vance and make Gibbons look like an even bigger clown than he is. Also speaking of Gibbons, running a campaign based on his former football glory as a high school and DIII football star is akin to Al Bundy running for public office.  

I fear for our future when ads like what Gibbons is showing  are even produced and aired as anything other than sketch comedy. That totally phony tough-guy talk is just sad. Even more sad that it will garner him votes.

1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

^ I'm sure the Silicon Valley venture capitalist has Ohio's best interest in his heart 😂

He is from Middletown Ohio and hardly a carpetbagger. Not quite the same thing but that is irrelevant to the point about Gibbons.

 

28 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

I fear for our future when ads like what Gibbons is showing  are even produced and aired as anything other than sketch comedy. That totally phony tough-guy talk is just sad. Even more sad that it will garner him votes.

It may garner him votes in some niche circles but I cant see him getting the nomination from that. I think he turns off too many mainstream establishment types who are actually more inclined to vote in the primary. Gibbon's problem is that he is late to the game. If this were 2020 and he could run on Trump's coattails then maybe a Trump proxy in Ohio. The Trump voters who lovvve Trump would loyally show up to vote for him in the primary. Where I believe Gibbons miscalculates is that Trump is not on the ballot in 2022 nor does he hold any power. Given that, are the populists who were essential to the Trump uprising going to show up for the primary to push someone like Gibbons over a Vance or Timken? I tend to dobut it. They may show up more in November to check the box for the GOP candidate running against the Dem candidate but they will likely not be motivated to show up for the primary without someone like Trump at the top of the ticket. 

 

Now there is a caveat and that would be whether or not someone like Renaceai gets traction in his attempt to primary Dewine. If he can get a surge there, it may help a more populist Senate candidate in the primary like a Mandel or Gibbons, but I don't think a Senate primary is going to inspire the typical Trump voter. 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

I will say, I see the commercials Mike Gibbons has been running attacking JD Vance and my wife and I comment how those commercials only make us more inclined to support Vance and make Gibbons look like an even bigger clown than he is. Also speaking of Gibbons, running a campaign based on his former football glory as a high school and DIII football star is akin to Al Bundy running for public office.  

I thought you are a moderate conservative and anti-trumper.  Why not go for Dolan?

4 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Also speaking of Gibbons, running a campaign based on his former football glory as a high school and DIII football star is akin to Al Bundy running for public office. 

I think of this every time I see his commercials. I hear 'Glory Days' playing in my head and laugh at what a tool he is. 

Four touchdowns in one game!

On 1/5/2022 at 4:00 PM, Clefan98 said:

 

Neither the left nor right trusts government, so let's get that straight. The approval levels of Congress prove this notion.

 

The difference is the left believes what they hear and read from professors, scientists, doctors, health experts and historians....aka smart people.

 

The right unites behind hate, guns and the bible...ironic isn't it? If this weren't true, why is Mandel the leading US Senate candidate in Ohio?

 

 

I really don't get how you claim to have political aspirations beyond choir preaching when you cling to strawmen like this.

 

Neither trusts government or corporations, one main point of difference is which we feel it's more important to rein in.

 

Mandel has the most name recognition, and it's early.

9 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

Mandel has the most name recognition, and it's early.

 

Be an honest person and admit that Mandel is winning because the majority of the right's base agrees with what he has to say.

 

Today's Republican party isn't what you think, nor remember it to be. It's been hijacked by radicals.

 

Edited January 7, 20223 yr by Clefan98

1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Be an honest person and admit that Mandel is winning because the majority of the right's base agrees with what he has to say.

 

Today's Republican party isn't what you think, nor remember it to be. It's been hijacked by radicals.

 

 

The GOP goes back and forth in that manner.  I see more chance of bringing it back to Constitutional principles than getting the Democratic party away from its addiction to government control of as much as possilbe.

^We've done it your way since the early '70s and it only worked out for people like you at the expense of everyone else.

6 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

The GOP goes back and forth in that manner.  I see more chance of bringing it back to Constitutional principles than getting the Democratic party away from its addiction to government control of as much as possilbe.

 

Ironic because it was the Republican party who tried to violently overthrow a fair election to take control of the government. Who is really the power addict?

 

I'd love to know which bizarro world you reside in, where facts and logic can be so twisted from reality.

Edited January 7, 20223 yr by Clefan98

16 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Ironic because it was the Republican party who tried to violently overthrow a fair election to take control of the government. Who is really the power addict?

 

I'd love to know which bizarro world you reside in, where facts and logic can be so twisted from reality.

 

Not the one where a low damage high visibilty riot and (unarmed) criminal trespassing are an order of magnitude worse than widespread, much more violent rioting and the armed takeover and trashing of sections of cities.

 

I know that's some of you's Narrative (including the Vice President) but it's not overshadowing the incredible incompetence of this administration and its congressional allies.   But it's all you have so of course you are going to keep rioting.

6 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not the one where a low damage high visibilty riot and (unarmed)

 

 

Unarmed...what about the pipe bombs?

 

You're a straight up liar, and I don't know how you radicals live with yourselves:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/

 

 

Edited January 7, 20223 yr by Clefan98

The Issue

 

White supremacists and other like-minded extremists conducted two-thirds of the terrorist plots and attacks in the United States in 2020,

https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

 

Here's a dose of reality, don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

Edited January 7, 20223 yr by Clefan98

 

 

 

Moreno ads are trash.

14 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Moreno ads are trash.

 

Car dealers are accustomed to telling the audience what they want to hear at any given moment.

"A used Chevy Equinox is a wise choice."

50 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

 

Stuff like this is why I’m no longer a republican but an independent. Only 4% right now want the only guy who thinks January 6th and Donald trump are bad and is not afraid to say it. The Republican Party if even the early 2000s is gone.

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

 

Easily explainable as to why JD Vance is struggling. He didn't play high school football!! Unlike Gibbons he did not score 4 touchdowns in a single game.  

45 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

"A used Chevy Equinox is a wise choice."

lol

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not the one where a low damage high visibilty riot and (unarmed) criminal trespassing are an order of magnitude worse than widespread, much more violent rioting and the armed takeover and trashing of sections of cities.

 

I know that's some of you's Narrative (including the Vice President) but it's not overshadowing the incredible incompetence of this administration and its congressional allies.   But it's all you have so of course you are going to keep rioting.

 

How many riots have happened since Biden took the reigns?  🤔  

 

Perhaps the incompetence you are speaking of was actually during the Trump administration?  

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

How many riots have happened since Biden took the reigns?  🤔  

 

 

That says more about his opposition than his allies.   People don't normally riot in support of an incumbent (who hasn't been de-elected) unless it's staged.

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

That says more about his opposition than his allies.   People don't normally riot in support of an incumbent (who hasn't been de-elected) unless it's staged.

I'm still not following how you're tying the incompetence of the Biden administration to the riots of 2020 and earlier, all of which happened under Trump.  And BTW, there were quite a few right-wing agitators arrested for starting fires and breaking glass during those... 

6 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I'm still not following how you're tying the incompetence of the Biden administration to the riots of 2020 and earlier, all of which happened under Trump.  And BTW, there were quite a few right-wing agitators arrested for starting fires and breaking glass during those... 

 

It doesn't make sense because down is up in his world.

 

I've come to the conclusion that we'll never be able to follow the logic of people who are on the wrong side of history. Their brains are nuked from much listening to frauds like Triv, Rush and other right wing propaganda and fear spreaders. 

 

8 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not the one where a low damage high visibilty riot and (unarmed) criminal trespassing are an order of magnitude worse than widespread, much more violent rioting and the armed takeover and trashing of sections of cities.

 

I know that's some of you's Narrative (including the Vice President) but it's not overshadowing the incredible incompetence of this administration and its congressional allies.   But it's all you have so of course you are going to keep rioting.

How does one write something out like this with a straight face? Like literally re read what you wrote. How does that sound sane?

15 hours ago, JB said:

How does one write something out like this with a straight face? Like literally re read what you wrote. How does that sound sane?

It’s not sane.

On 1/7/2022 at 11:52 AM, E Rocc said:

Not the one where a low damage high visibilty riot and (unarmed) criminal trespassing are an order of magnitude worse than widespread, much more violent rioting and the armed takeover and trashing of sections of cities.

 

Democrats' propaganda arm has been treating January 6th like the Reichstag fire, and Tim "holy cow!" Ryan is among the worst of the lot in terms of pushing propaganda. His little rant a few days ago was yet another example that the guy is nowhere near "moderate." 

 

Much like the Republicans are all attempting to appear more right-wing, Ryan has been doing all he can to fit into the radical progressive crowd. You see a lot of liberals on this forum, and others, pushing for their candidates to give up trying to appeal to the middle - and I suppose Ryan has aligned with that logic. I don't think it's going to work out well in Ohio, though. J.D. Vance is probably the most neutral/moderate candidate realistically in the running right now.

On 1/7/2022 at 4:53 PM, Cleburger said:

I'm still not following how you're tying the incompetence of the Biden administration to the riots of 2020 and earlier, all of which happened under Trump.  And BTW, there were quite a few right-wing agitators arrested for starting fires and breaking glass during those... 

 

You are making my point.   No riots is not a sign of Biden's competence, but a sign of a better behaved opposition.

22 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

Democrats' propaganda arm has been treating January 6th like the Reichstag fire, and Tim "holy cow!" Ryan is among the worst of the lot in terms of pushing propaganda. His little rant a few days ago was yet another example that the guy is nowhere near "moderate." 

 

Much like the Republicans are all attempting to appear more right-wing, Ryan has been doing all he can to fit into the radical progressive crowd. You see a lot of liberals on this forum, and others, pushing for their candidates to give up trying to appeal to the middle - and I suppose Ryan has aligned with that logic. I don't think it's going to work out well in Ohio, though. J.D. Vance is probably the most neutral/moderate candidate realistically in the running right now.

 

I recently had a talk with my very liberal niece about the importance of keeping a wide variety of viewpoints in your circle (one reason I continue to read and post here).   If one does not, one ends up with a skewed viewpoint of what is working and what is not working, politically.  This has a lot to do with why Trump won, and why he lost.

The left is still trying to push the idea that a bunch of fringe characters chanting in a remarkably undamaged Capitol Building is somehow worse than a series of riots where individual stores took more dollar value damage than said Capitol.   That's not playing in the middle and they don't seem to know that.   Carville said "it's the economy, stupid" and he was correct, as he usually was tactically speaking.  They don't have much to go with there, though.

39 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

Democrats' propaganda arm has been treating January 6th like the Reichstag fire

Quite the opposite.  In the time since January 6, the far-right media and the Trump GOP has claimed that leftist agitators from ANTIFA and BLM embedded in the ranks of Trump supporters were responsible for the damage.   In this regard it would be more historically aligned with Hitler's use of the Reichstag fire to consolidate power.  

 

34 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Quite the opposite.  In the time since January 6, the far-right media and the Trump GOP has claimed that leftist agitators from ANTIFA and BLM embedded in the ranks of Trump supporters were responsible for the damage.   In this regard it would be more historically aligned with Hitler's use of the Reichstag fire to consolidate power.  

 

 

You just proved @E Rocc's point, wittingly or otherwise.  Making that kind of analogy with a straight face is exactly what he meant.  The left has decided that Godwin's Law no longer applies when talking about Republicans (a.k.a. approximately half of the electorate).

 

And P.S. yes, all that any responses in the vein of "if the shoe fits ..." will accomplish is to further demonstrate the validity of E Rocc's point.

17 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

You just proved @E Rocc's point, wittingly or otherwise.  Making that kind of analogy with a straight face is exactly what he meant.  The left has decided that Godwin's Law no longer applies when talking about Republicans (a.k.a. approximately half of the electorate).

 

And P.S. yes, all that any responses in the vein of "if the shoe fits ..." will accomplish is to further demonstrate the validity of E Rocc's point.

 

I proved nothing.   I was just correcting the historic reference to Hitler's use of the Reichstag fire.  

 

 

19 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

You just proved @E Rocc's point, wittingly or otherwise.  Making that kind of analogy with a straight face is exactly what he meant.  The left has decided that Godwin's Law no longer applies when talking about Republicans (a.k.a. approximately half of the electorate).

 

And P.S. yes, all that any responses in the vein of "if the shoe fits ..." will accomplish is to further demonstrate the validity of E Rocc's point.

 

It's not the Reichstag, you're right. But @E RoccI'm still proudly Conservative and I disagree. While I'd love to see every brick throwing hippy in Portland behind bars, where they belong - you have to recognize the difference in the 2. 

 

BLM spiraled out of control following a spate of police killings of black individuals. The ends of these protests were at times horrific, destroying property and lives. However, this frustration spilled from a genuine conviction that blacks are being killed at a disproportionately high rate at the hands of police. 

 

The Capitol riots were the result of a lie. A wholly unsubstantiated claim that an election was stolen, with the intent of stopping an election from being certified. 

 

Civil unrest and riots happen in democracies - despite how wrong they are. But violence as a means of overturning an election does not. There's a serious difference here at the root of both examples - and it's critical to understand that. 

 

Having said that - I will only vote for Matt Dolan out of this current field in OH GOP. For me, saying we need to overturn the last election - which Mandel, Vance, Moreno, Timken (lite) Gibbons (lite) - have all stated is disqualifying for me. 

 

I donated to Gibbons - I was let down. 

I met with Vance and had a long conversation with him about how dangerous MAGAism is for our country in November of 2019 - he is a complete morally bankrupt fraud. 

I donated to Timken - She folded to Mandel's pressure. 

Mandel is a complete and utter lunatic who will say anything to rally the furthest edges of the fringes. 

 

Matt Dolan is my only option left - and I know I'm not alone. Ohio will have two blue senators come 2022 if Mandel gets the nod. And it's all in the name of "owning the libs" rather than legislating. 

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by YABO713

3 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

It's not the Reichstag, you're right. But @E RoccI'm still proudly Conservative and I disagree. While I'd love to see every brick throwing hippy in Portland behind bars, where they belong - you have to recognize the difference in the 2. 

 

BLM spiraled out of control following a spate of police killings of black individuals. The ends of these protests were at times horrific, destroying property and lives. However, this frustration spilled from a genuine conviction that blacks are being killed at a disproportionately high rate at the hands of police. 

 

The Capitol riots were the result of a lie. A wholly unsubstantiated claim that an election was stolen, with the intent of stopping an election from being certified. 

 

Civil unrest and riots happen in democracies - despite how wrong they are. But violence as a means of overturning an election does not. There's a serious difference here at the root of both examples - and it's critical to understand that. 

 

Having said that - I will only vote for Matt Dolan out of this current field in OH GOP. For me, saying we need to overturn the last election - which Mandel, Vance, Moreno, Timken (lite) Gibbons (lite) - have all stated is disqualifying for me. 

 

I donated to Gibbons - I was let down. 

I met with Vance and had a long conversation with him about how dangerous MAGAism is for our country in November of 2019 - he is a complete morally bankrupt fraud. 

I donated to Timken - She folded to Mandel's pressure. 

Mandel is a complete and utter lunatic who will say anything to rally the furthest edges of the fringes. 

 

Matt Dolan is my only option left - and I know I'm not alone. Ohio will have two blue senators come 2022 if Mandel gets the nod. And it's all in the name of "owning the libs" rather than legislating. 

 

A "genuine conviction" is not the same thing as truth; I'm sure some of the Capitol rioters had a "genuine conviction" that Trump really won the election.  And I don't think it's fair to blithely handwave away civil unrest and riots as these things just "happen in democracies."  They generally do not, or at least did not for many decades.  Fundamentally, the distinction rests on a political and moral judgment, not an empirical one: Those who defend the BLM rioters but call out the Capitol rioters simply believe that the BLM rioters were in the right, or closer to it than the Capitol rioters, that the BLM rioters' grievances were either true, full stop, or true enough to at least partially ameliorate their culpability for their own destructive acts.  That moral claim is what allows the left to ignore the vastly larger physical destruction and looting of the BLM riots.  No such ideological accommodation is offered to the Capitol rioters--quite the opposite.  They are upgraded to "insurrectionists" and people non-ironically make Reichstag fire analogies.

 

That said, I tend to agree with you about the 2022 Senate race here; the aggression that makes Mandel a good bet to win the primary will handicap him in the general against any moderate Democrat.  He could still win based on the Ohio Democratic Party's inability to recruit a good candidate and/or institutional disorganization in terms of supporting a general election campaign.  However, Mandel still might well set himself up to lose the general in Ohio the same way Trump lost the general nationally: losing the suburbanites who vote more on kitchen-table than culture-war issues, and also have "compassion fatigue" when it comes to coddling antivaxxers and other COVID deniers.

41 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

A "genuine conviction" is not the same thing as truth; I'm sure some of the Capitol rioters had a "genuine conviction" that Trump really won the election.  And I don't think it's fair to blithely handwave away civil unrest and riots as these things just "happen in democracies."  They generally do not, or at least did not for many decades.  Fundamentally, the distinction rests on a political and moral judgment, not an empirical one: Those who defend the BLM rioters but call out the Capitol rioters simply believe that the BLM rioters were in the right, or closer to it than the Capitol rioters, that the BLM rioters' grievances were either true, full stop, or true enough to at least partially ameliorate their culpability for their own destructive acts.  That moral claim is what allows the left to ignore the vastly larger physical destruction and looting of the BLM riots.  No such ideological accommodation is offered to the Capitol rioters--quite the opposite.  They are upgraded to "insurrectionists" and people non-ironically make Reichstag fire analogies.

 

That said, I tend to agree with you about the 2022 Senate race here; the aggression that makes Mandel a good bet to win the primary will handicap him in the general against any moderate Democrat.  He could still win based on the Ohio Democratic Party's inability to recruit a good candidate and/or institutional disorganization in terms of supporting a general election campaign.  However, Mandel still might well set himself up to lose the general in Ohio the same way Trump lost the general nationally: losing the suburbanites who vote more on kitchen-table than culture-war issues, and also have "compassion fatigue" when it comes to coddling antivaxxers and other COVID deniers.

Because they are.

 

1 hour ago, Gramarye said:

 

A "genuine conviction" is not the same thing as truth; I'm sure some of the Capitol rioters had a "genuine conviction" that Trump really won the election.  And I don't think it's fair to blithely handwave away civil unrest and riots as these things just "happen in democracies."  They generally do not, or at least did not for many decades.  Fundamentally, the distinction rests on a political and moral judgment, not an empirical one: Those who defend the BLM rioters but call out the Capitol rioters simply believe that the BLM rioters were in the right, or closer to it than the Capitol rioters, that the BLM rioters' grievances were either true, full stop, or true enough to at least partially ameliorate their culpability for their own destructive acts.  That moral claim is what allows the left to ignore the vastly larger physical destruction and looting of the BLM riots.  No such ideological accommodation is offered to the Capitol rioters--quite the opposite.  They are upgraded to "insurrectionists" and people non-ironically make Reichstag fire analogies.

 

Thank you Yabo for acknowledging that BLM protesters had genuine grievances.   Many Conservatives refuse to admit this fact.

 

Many Conservatives also refuse to acknowledge that almost all of the BLM protests were peaceful.  To say that the Left is condoning or dismissing that violence is not based on facts -- Democratic Party politicians have come out almost uniformly against rioting.  Riots did take place in some places after day-long peaceful protests, but they were almost universally condemned, on both the Right and the Left.  The Democrats can say "I understand why you are angry" and also "but you still have to face the consequences of your actions" -- just because Democrats understand the frustrations that lead to BLM protests does not mean Democrats support or accept rioting.  In fact, most Democrats called out the rioters and agreed with Republicans in saying that they should face consequences for their destruction.

 

The attack on the Capital was intended to use violence to disrupt a government function -- that's a completely different animal. 

 

I agree with Yabo here -- Dolan is the only reasonable option and despite early optimism I have been very disappointed in Timken and Gibbons.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

Democrats' propaganda arm has been treating January 6th like the Reichstag fire, and Tim "holy cow!" Ryan is among the worst of the lot in terms of pushing propaganda. His little rant a few days ago was yet another example that the guy is nowhere near "moderate." 

 

Much like the Republicans are all attempting to appear more right-wing, Ryan has been doing all he can to fit into the radical progressive crowd. You see a lot of liberals on this forum, and others, pushing for their candidates to give up trying to appeal to the middle - and I suppose Ryan has aligned with that logic. I don't think it's going to work out well in Ohio, though. J.D. Vance is probably the most neutral/moderate candidate realistically in the running right now.

 

I'm not a fan of Tim Ryan's ... but you've got your head in the sand if you think the guy is a left-winger based upon some primary comments. He's arguably the only candidate at any level that could win the Mahoning Valley and the three C's in the same race.