^ I think that is the definition of downtown that makes the most sense. If Columbus counts the area by North Market downtown, we should definitely count OTR. I like the unifying aspect of calling all of the basin downtown, but I do think that the differences in scale and land use between the CBD and OTR are great, and it does sort of make sense for them to be viewed separately. I think a good solution to this would be to refer to Downtown (CBD), OTR, Pendleton, and the West End as Center City. That would give a collective name to the different neighborhoods, while letting them exist as their own neighborhoods with neighborhood councils and everything, and not just be relegated as downtown "districts".

^i think what you describe as "Center City" is already known as "the basin." Not too well known, but known. Plus I think "Center City" is already associated with Philadelphia.

 

I use Travis's definition of downtown a lot, especially if I am talking to a suburbanite and don't want any questions/commentary about OTR, I just say I live downtown.

Yeah I suppose the basin does kind of exist as a localized version of city center. Btw lots of places use city center to describe their urban cores, not just Philadelphia, though theirs is certainly well known. All throughout Europe, city center is used to describe the dense, historic core areas and it seems to work pretty well as a general term.

The 2016 (data year 2015)DCI report gives an estimate for the 45202 zip code (not aligned with neighborhood boundaries) of 15,933 people. http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/Stakeholder-Docs/2016-state-of-downtown.pdf

 

The 2014 (data year 2013) report breaks it down by neighborhood (perhaps extrapolating from the last census) CBD - 5,598 OTR - 7,023 Pendleton - 900. http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/20th-anniversary-docs/2014_sod.pdf?sfvrsn=2

 

To follow up on the above would "the Basin" include Queensgate or Lower Price Hill by anyone's definition? What about Camp Washington? Northside? (stretching it, but it did get flooded during the great flood of 1937...)

To follow up on the above would "the Basin" include Queensgate or Lower Price Hill by anyone's definition? What about Camp Washington? Northside? (stretching it, but it did get flooded during the great flood of 1937...)

 

The Basin is essentially all the flat area that is surrounded by the adjacent hills.  So Pendleton, Downtown, OTR, the West End, Queensgate, Lower Price Hill (the last two were all part of the West End at some point). It's called the Basin because the hills surround it like a wash basin, I believe.  Geographically Camp Washington is a northern extension of it but I don't believe it is typically considered to be a part of it when the term is used.

^By that definition, Covington and Newport would be included as well, but that probably isn't the way most locals think of it.  That's how it functions and how visitors would probably view it, though.

IMO "Downtown Cincinnati" consists of three neighborhoods: the Central Business District, Over-the-Rhine, and Pendleton. I intentionally refer to "Downtown" when I mean the entire basin area, and "Central Business District" when I mean just south of Central Parkway.

 

Metro Buses feel the same way, the moment you enter the basin the bus tells you you are in Downtown.  Its not after central parkway.

Yeah I suppose the basin does kind of exist as a localized version of city center. Btw lots of places use city center to describe their urban cores, not just Philadelphia, though theirs is certainly well known. All throughout Europe, city center is used to describe the dense, historic core areas and it seems to work pretty well as a general term.

 

I think you've inadvertently stumbled upon the difference between "city center" (a generic term) and "Center City" (a part of Philadelphia).

 

ETA: I'm all for Cincinnati using "the basin" to refer to its neighborhoods in the area surrounded by hills. IMO, Camp Washington is a stretch -- extend the topographic boundary and it's cut off.

^Center City Philadelphia is a part of Philadelphia, but it is still comprised of multiple neighborhoods.  It's not like Center City is just what they choose to call their CBD.  They've popularized the term for Americans, but it's the same concept as Center City Geneva, Amsterdam, etc. I don't see what the difference is.

 

As far as the basin goes, technically the valley along I-75 continues from the river to about Sharonville, where the hills kind of subside, and things flatten out a bit more uniformly. Jimmy_James is also correct that the basin, in the topographical sense, would also cover Newport and Covington.

^ Center City is a part of Philly.

 

City center (notice the word order is flipped) is a generic term for the urban core of a city, used all over the world.

Got in an argument with some guy on reddit that downtown demand has fallen in Downtown Cincy over the last 2 years, any validity to this?

No. What was his claim based on?

He was supposedly connected to all the landlords downtown.

 

Typical internet troll - it was an argument over the Dennison Hotel Restoration.  Best point he did bring up was that supply is artificially constrained - there are a lot of vacant buildings that aren't getting restored, however for some reason he used that as justification for the Dennison not being restored?

Some people are convinced that the resurgence of Downtown and OTR is just a temporary fad and pretty soon it will fall out of favor and some other neighborhood will become trendy. They assume it will happen because they watched it happen to Mt. Adams, Newport on the Levee, and other places. They can't comprehend that what's happening now is very, very different.

Some people are convinced that the resurgence of Downtown and OTR is just a temporary fad and pretty soon it will fall out of favor and some other neighborhood will become trendy. They assume it will happen because they watched it happen to Mt. Adams, Newport on the Levee, and other places. They can't comprehend that what's happening now is very, very different.

 

Mt Adams is still very high value for residential right?  The only place where its slowed is in restaurant/bar trade.

 

The other neighborhoods - yes I understand and its a core part of why Cincinnatians are so freakin cynical about urban redevelopment.

Yeah I think Mt. Adams is still doing fine in terms of residential, just struggling in the bar/restaurant space.

 

I think what people fail to realize is that OTR and Downtown is quickly becoming a place where Baby Boomers are moving. So while the party crowd might move on to another neighborhood, OTR is building up a strong base of people that have the money to eat a nice restaurants a dozen times a month, frequent fancier bars, coffee shops, and retailers. Even if the "here today/gone tomorrow" bar crowd leaves OTR and goes somewhere else, that's not going to impact places like Taft's Ale House or Zula or Japp's.

Which I can sort of understand. The difference between OTR/Downtown's resurgence and various other short lived "entertainment district" type areas like NotL is that it's part of a much larger cultural shift that people haven't seen in their lives. The last time cities and urban areas were seen as a good place to invest in and live in was pre-WWII. And Cincinnatians aren't known for getting out much so they haven't ever seen the progress essentially all American cities are making towards being very livable and long-term successes. It'll catch on eventually that this isn't just some half-baked plan but rather a long-term growth just beginning, but it'll happen eventually.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/10/national-fast-food-chains-are-coming-back-to.html

 

I know many of you have mixed emotions on non-local, fast food.  But I actually think this is a great addition to the Downtown Cincy Scene.  Taco Bell Cantina is coming to the @580 building.  This will be unique in itself for a while and offer some late night food options.  Also, I saw that t-Mobile is opening a store on Fountain square as well on 6th street.

 

I'm in full support! For downtown to become a more livable place, we need more options that appeal to everyone, and it's great that Taco Bell is deciding to open a location downtown. I still don't understand why the Big 3 burger places have all pulled out of downtown.

Still wish we had a Wendy's. I don't like fast food but when I do, Wendy's is where we go. The 4th street place was kinda gross at the end but it could have been invested in.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/10/national-fast-food-chains-are-coming-back-to.html

 

I know many of you have mixed emotions on non-local, fast food.  But I actually think this is a great addition to the Downtown Cincy Scene.  Taco Bell Cantina is coming to the @580 building.  This will be unique in itself for a while and offer some late night food options.  Also, I saw that t-Mobile is opening a store on Fountain square as well on 6th street.

 

 

How do you know TMO is building a new store on FS? Is it under construction?

There is a coming soon/grand opening sign with T Mobile logo on the back side of Fountain Square next to GNC and Panera.

I saw a jewelry store moved into the old gallery space at 5th and Race.  Definitely an upgrade, and it's good to see more street level retail there.  I hope the gallery can find a new spot in the CBD, though.

With the impending changes at 4th & Walnut Centre, Hoxworth is pulling out of downtown.

I wasn't aware that Hoxworth even had a presence downtown. I had assumed their operations were completely on UC's medical campus.

With the impending changes at 4th & Walnut Centre, Hoxworth is pulling out of downtown.

That's a bit odd/unfortunate because they moved into the 4th & Walnut building fairly recently (in the last 2 years) from their previous office at 5th and Walnut (the Tristate Building).

I wasn't aware that Hoxworth even had a presence downtown. I had assumed their operations were completely on UC's medical campus.

 

"Hoxworth operates several Neighborhood Donor Centers conveniently located in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky."

 

Neighborhood = Anderson, Blue Ash, Ft. Mitchel, Mason, Tri-County, Western Hills

Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

 

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store. 

Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

 

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store.

 

Do they own the Fountain Place store here in Cincy though? One of the main drivers of this is Wall Street is pressuring them to make money off their real estate.

Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

 

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store.

 

Do they own the Fountain Place store here in Cincy though? One of the main drivers of this is Wall Street is pressuring them to make money off their real estate.

 

No they lease it and the lease expires in 2018 I believe.

A developer from Indianapolis is planning on converting the building at 813 Broadway into condos:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/04/exclusive-high-end-condos-coming-to-downtown.html

Tennessee-based developer buys the building at 37 West Seventh St (corner of Race St) to convert it to a hotel.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/05/exclusive-downtown-cincinnati-office-building-to.html

 

I hope they work with the City to re-design the city-owned <a href="https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1034649,-84.5147679,3a,75y,215.63h,81.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp_UIPUwyfnZlPLHP8-gw7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656">"park"</a> in between the Macy's HQ and this building. It could make a nice space for outdoor dining if the hotel has a restaurant on the first floor.

 

 

^I believe that's the building that Cranley's dad owns. 

^ it is a nice building, however, the next hotel project I hope to hear about downtown is the tear down and rebuilding of the Millenium Hotel

The City of Cincinnati’s Department of Community and Economic Development (DCED) is hosting a Public Engagement Workshop on January 18th for two development opportunities in the CBD:

 

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/city-of-cincinnati-cyber-monday-rfp-public-engagement-workshop-tickets-30903344736

 

What's driving all the hotel demand?  Not just downtown, but everywhere it seems. 

I think there's a lot of stuff driving tourism besides the big conventions that cities have traditionally relied on. I know in recent years I have taken a short trips to nearby cities like Nashville, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh, not for any particular reason, but just to check them out over a long weekend. I think even simple stuff like the various beer fests, Queen City Underground tours, and even the attraction of Smale Park are bringing more people to Cincinnati for a short getaway.

Plus, how many actual hotel rooms does downtown Cincinnati have?  Hell, if you add up the number of rooms at the Westin, Hyatt, and Hilton Netherland, it would equal this:

 

^ it is a nice building, however, the next hotel project I hope to hear about downtown is the tear down and rebuilding of the Millenium Hotel

 

Is it possible that having a hotel at a lower price point like the Millennium helps us land conventions though?

^ Everything they say is that the Millinieum is a detriment to business and not a help

I think there's a lot of stuff driving tourism besides the big conventions that cities have traditionally relied on. I know in recent years I have taken a short trips to nearby cities like Nashville, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh, not for any particular reason, but just to check them out over a long weekend. I think even simple stuff like the various beer fests, Queen City Underground tours, and even the attraction of Smale Park are bringing more people to Cincinnati for a short getaway.

 

True that. Some of you guys know that I recently moved from Oakley to Miamisburg (temporary) and we prefer to stay the night downtown if there's something going on ... Especially not having to worry about driving after having some drinks, or being downtown early for Bengals games. Just wake up and walk down, more fun that way.

^I believe that's the building that Cranley's dad owns.

 

Yep, it had been in the Cranley family since the 70's, and is now owned by a Tennessee-based hospitality company:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2017/01/09/another-downtown-building-eyed-new-hotel/96335714/

 

The 58,000-square-foot office building, previously known as the Resor Building and Willis Building, had been in the family of Mayor John Cranley for four decades. Cranley's father Jay launched the John J. Cranley Co. insurance brokerage business at the building in the 1970s.

Downtown Cincinnati gets a full-service hardware store: PHOTOS

Jan 12, 2017, 2:51pm EST Updated Jan 12, 2017, 3:13pm EST

Chris Wetterich

Staff reporter and columnist

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Downtown, which lacks a full-service hardware store amidst its rising population, will get one soon when Woods Hardware opens at the old Republican Club building at 125 E. Ninth St. on Tuesday at 7:30 a.m.

 

“For any community to thrive, you need to have two staple items: You need to have a grocery store. You need to have a hardware store,” said COO Matt Woods. “Downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine have not had a full-service hardware store in about 15 years.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/12/downtown-cincinnati-gets-a-full-service-hardware.html

Plus, how many actual hotel rooms does downtown Cincinnati have?  Hell, if you add up the number of rooms at the Westin, Hyatt, and Hilton Netherland, it would equal this:

 

 

Posted this earlier in the week. full breakdown of hotels in CBD

 

Existing Hotels in CBD:

21C: 160 Rooms

Cincinnatian: 146 Rooms

Hampton Inn: 144 Rooms

Homewood Suites: 105 Rooms

Holiday Inn: 117 Rooms

Hilton Netherland: 561 Rooms

Hyatt Regency: 491 Rooms

Millennium: 872 Rooms

Renaissance: 323 Rooms

Residence Inn: 134 Rooms

Westin: 456 Rooms

 

3,509 Rooms

 

Future Hotels:

AC at the Banks: 170 Rooms

Autograph hotel: 106 Rooms

Towneplace Suites: 84 Rooms

Seventh and Race Hotel: ?

Washington Park Boutique Hotel: ?

Fourth and Walnut Hotel: ?

 

360 + Rooms

 

^ to be fair, when comparing it to most cities, should we also add in the hotels on the Riverfront in Covington and Newport. They are all walking distance to downtown and although not part of the CBD, they are part of a core downtown fabric from an outsider perspective.

I am surprised Omni isn't in Cincinnati. They were very nice when I stayed in Richmond, Virginia. The one in Louisville is coming with a grocery store:

 

 

That would put Millennium under very quickly.

^The Netherland used to be an Omni. I'm not sure when it switched to Hilton.

That Omni in Louisville looks very impressive.

 

^ to be fair, when comparing it to most cities, should we also add in the hotels on the Riverfront in Covington and Newport. They are all walking distance to downtown and although not part of the CBD, they are part of a core downtown fabric from an outsider perspective.

 

In my industry even if walking distance if there is a barrier aka a state line and river you do not consider the hotels in NKY, but I do have those room count numbers from previous research. Please see revised room count list.

 

Existing Hotels in CBD:

21C: 160 Rooms

Cincinnatian: 146 Rooms

Hampton Inn: 144 Rooms

Homewood Suites: 105 Rooms

Holiday Inn: 117 Rooms

Hilton Netherland: 561 Rooms

Hyatt Regency: 491 Rooms

Millennium: 872 Rooms

Renaissance: 323 Rooms

Residence Inn: 134 Rooms

Westin: 456 Rooms

 

3,509 Rooms

 

NKY Riverfront Hotels (Covington, Newport, Bellevue)

Marriott: 321 Rooms

Embassy Suites: 226 Rooms

Radisson: 216 Rooms

Hampton Inn, Cov: 151 Rooms

Holiday Inn: 152 Rooms

Courtyard: 194 Rooms

Extended Stay: 105 Rooms

Hotel Covington: 114 Rooms

Holiday Inn Express: 55 Rooms

Comfort Suites: 124 Rooms

Hampton Inn, Newport: 122 Rooms

Aloft, Newport: 150 Rooms

 

1930 Rooms along NKY riverfront

 

Future Hotels:

AC at the Banks: 170 Rooms

Autograph hotel: 106 Rooms

Towneplace Suites: 84 Rooms

Seventh and Race Hotel: ?

Washington Park Boutique Hotel: ?

Fourth and Walnut Hotel: ?

 

360 + Rooms

When the Terrace Plaza Hotel closed in 2008 downtown lost 350 hotel rooms.

 

Also Garfield Hotel just closed last year so we lost 153 units there.

 

The current hotel building boom started with the conversion of the old Phelps building into the Residence Inn but really began taking off with the 21c. At that point there were about 2500 rooms downtown including the loss of Terrace Plaza's 350 rooms. Then toss in the Garfield closing.

 

So since 2008 we only net gained a about 500 hotel rooms. Not bad.