1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

The malls should be Cleveland's living room. 

Public Square should continue to be a hub for transit and commerce, as it has been since the city's founding.  

 

 

That pic hurts. 

5 hours ago, dave2017 said:

I enjoy that Public Square has been reinvented within the past 10 years. Sometimes it is difficult to understand why the malls haven't been activated to extend the public's uses.  This is where the next focus should be placed.  I never understood why public amenities and activations were eliminated from inclusion on the large open spaces.  Talks happened about playgrounds and basketball courts but nothing has come to fruition other than some art installations which draw little attention.

 

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

The malls should be Cleveland's living room. 

Public Square should continue to be a hub for transit and commerce, as it has been since the city's founding.  

 

 

I agree with both of you here. 

 

The "Cleveland's living room" line came from city and county officials at the Illuminate event. They were repeatedly using that phrase to describe public square. 

 

The malls seem to be the same as many of the other City of Cleveland Parks recent years, and like what is being done at Gordon Park right now. Removing or providing no actual uses of the space, like baseball fields at Gordon, and just leaving a "great lawn" with no shaded areas that no one will ever use. The Malls need things. Anything. 

 

 

There need to be more reasons for Downtown residents to be out and about at street level.  I get that it doesn't all fall on the city and we need some businesses to take chances, but it needs a spark(Downtown streetcar????). I know a lot of people who live in Ohio City/Tremont/Gordon Square who never go Downtown, and most of the Downtown residents I know spend more time outside of their apartment in Ohio City or Tremont than Downtown. Sure there are a ton of bars and restaurants, but people are only going to those a max of 1-3 days a week. Downtown is still mainly set up for the suburban commuter.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by PlanCleveland

Public Square is a major transportation hub as Superior, Euclid, and Ontario all intersect there. So I don't agree with shutting down traffic on the outside of the square. The bus lane that divides the square needs to go. Also, the "forest city" needs to undergo some "reforestation", but doesn't the fact that the malls sit over the convention center pose problems for planting trees? The city also needs more fountains.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by TMart

On 5/20/2023 at 2:41 PM, Cleburger said:

How is it we used to manage this in Public Square (photo circa 1940) and today it's so difficult?   

 

Maybe there were accidents back then and we just never heard about them?   Less lawyers?   

 

I personally would love to see pedestrians, cars, buses and trains crowding the square with a population approaching 1 million once again....

I'm reminded of several things with this picture.  Wow -- look at all the people and all the buses/trams!  And look at how few cars there are....

 

The cars are a small number of people, and just a few cars greatly increases the traffic on the square.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/12/03/you-are-not-stuck-in-traffic-you-are-traffic/

14 hours ago, X said:

 

I don't understand why you'd close it to personal autos but keep it open to busses.  Absolutely all benefits of closing it to auto are forestalled by continuing to run busses through the middle of the square.

 

Not to mention the confusion of drivers constantly being in the wrong lane. The whole setup is pretty counterintuitive in my experience. But that was at the beginning, maybe things have gotten better with more familiarity?  

1 minute ago, surfohio said:

 

Not to mention the confusion of drivers constantly being in the wrong lane. The whole setup is pretty counterintuitive in my experience. But that was at the beginning, maybe things have gotten better with more familiarity?  

I mean the bus only and do not enter signs simplify it enough for me. 

Just now, MyPhoneDead said:

I mean the bus only and do not enter signs simplify it enough for me. 

 

You think people would do the same. But my experience was people were not getting it. 

 

1 hour ago, TMart said:

Public Square is a major transportation hub as Superior, Euclid, and Ontario all intersect there. So I don't agree with shutting down traffic on the outside of the square. The bus lane that divides the square needs to go. Also, the "forest city" needs to undergo some "reforestation", but doesn't the fact that the malls sit over the convention center pose problems for planting trees? The city also needs more fountains.

The malls aren't helped at all by having the convention center underneath them. Tree planting is off the table, and not being level destroys one of the main purposes of a mall, which is to preserve sight lines. My pet crazy idea is to utilize the height from the convention center to create a pedestrian overpass for Lakeside Ave. Combined with an eventual landbridge this would create a pedestrian green highway from the "shore to the core" with only two street crossings from public square to the lakefront. 

14 minutes ago, Ethan said:

My pet crazy idea is to utilize the height from the convention center to create a pedestrian overpass for Lakeside Ave. 

 

I remember not being able to find them recently, but originally there were fantastic renderings of this land bridge idea with the Convention Center location studies.  

47 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Tree planting is off the table, and not being level destroys one of the main purposes of a mall, which is to preserve sight lines.

 

Any reason why this wouldn't work? Definitely not the same as permanent trees, but at least it would be something.

 

49 minutes ago, Ethan said:

My pet crazy idea is to utilize the height from the convention center to create a pedestrian overpass for Lakeside Ave. Combined with an eventual landbridge this would create a pedestrian green highway from the "shore to the core" with only two street crossings from public square to the lakefront. 

 

This would be an interesting idea, I'd love to see someone do a visualization lol. The only possible challenge would be to avoid blocking any more sightlines, but maybe there's a good way around this.

56 minutes ago, sonisharri said:

Any reason why this wouldn't work? Definitely not the same as permanent trees, but at least it would be something.

Planters could definitely work! And I agree, it's something and it would be a good idea! I was talking about full size trees, but whatever we can get would be useful. I'd be interested in seeing someone reimagine the malls. Perhaps that should proceed in tandem with the landbridge. treat them as one long linear park, instead of what is currently planned, which will probably feel like a clear, if not jarring, demarcation.  

The best case for that Malls would be to put emphasis on activating them for events. As it stands there's not enough people living downtown to keep them busy with people hanging out or walking their dogs. And the fact that they're surrounded by mostly civic and office uses, and not dense residential buildings, doesn't help any and isn't changing any time soon. 

that light show is an actual embarrassment. it was just a chamber of commerce commercial - with lights circling around script 'the land' for 5 minutes and a narrator saying "this is the land of..."

 

they spent millions on that trash.  destination cleveland needs to hire someone with taste and commission a real artist to do a light show.

The lights looked nice and there were lots of people there on this beautiful spring night, but the show certainly didn't give them anything to come back to or even tell their friends about. 

 

It would be better if they removed the destination cleveland narration entirely and just let the lights and music run. The narration is so tacky. There's definitely potential there, but destination cleveland needs to get out of its own way.

I walked over and saw the light show also…. Plus I’ve watched them set it up for the last few months.Its meh.  And you’re absolutely correct with the “narration”, just get rid of it. It’s so tired and corny. Play some songs by Cleveland artist and do the lights.  

We went to see the light show last night, and I was really looking forward to it. It was so disappointing. The lights were okay, but the narrators/narration was so cringe. It felt like they were saying, "We matter! We're important!" over and over. Ugh.

It'd be better if they simply played a medley of famous rock songs for five minutes at the top of every hour. Or mix it up every hour between classic rock / 80s pop / Cleveland originals / 90s R&B / rock opera / etc.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Paul in Cleveland

On 4/19/2025 at 7:02 AM, mack34 said:

I walked over and saw the light show also…. Plus I’ve watched them set it up for the last few months.Its meh.  And you’re absolutely correct with the “narration”, just get rid of it. It’s so tired and corny. Play some songs by Cleveland artist and do the lights.  

 

That narration was cringe af. Reminds me of the time my friend from out of town visited and we took the red line from Terminal Tower. His first response was "ya'll just play music on the loud speakers? wtf??" Also, the ESPN spot down on the Flats East Bank. For god's sake. Someone needs to rip the speakers off the building. Why do we need to blast sports radio onto the riverwalk at 1 am or later on a Wednesday? 

Edited April 24Apr 24 by ASP1984

On 4/18/2025 at 9:15 PM, Rustbelter said:

The best case for that Malls would be to put emphasis on activating them for events. As it stands there's not enough people living downtown to keep them busy with people hanging out or walking their dogs. And the fact that they're surrounded by mostly civic and office uses, and not dense residential buildings, doesn't help any and isn't changing any time soon. 

 

This is a great read from 1975 most notably because it's talking about the activity on the malls back then: https://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/05/archives/downtown-cleveland-a-diamond-in-the-rough.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CE8.bCkJ.jjKa_T-olKxr&smid=url-share.

 

Downtown Cleveland A Diamond inthe Rough

CLEVELAND‐The crowd started to gather soon after 11 A.M. on one of those muggy days of early summer, when the haze is so thick that the blue‐gray surface of Lake Erie merges totally with the blue‐gray sky above.

 

But the breeze blowing off the lake onto the grassy mall beside the Cleveland public auditorium was pleasant, and the crowd grew — businessmen in suits with briefcases, hard‐hatted construction workers with lunch buckets, Coast Guard officers, young people in jeans, mothers with children, blacks and whites. The whole city in miniature, it seemed.

 

They clustered under the sycamores and relaxed on the park benches beside the petunia gardens and on the railing of a fountain's reflecting pool, and around the vending stands that sold kosher hotdogs and Italian meatball sandwiches and kielbase and knockwurst in envelopes of unleavened pita bread, and soft drinks and beer, gin‐and‐tonic and scotch‐and‐water.

“Whip it on me!” yelled a good‐natured hard hat, and the little band there especially for the lunchtime carnival did just that. First some rock, then some jazz, then a little soul music and then a polka. Feet tapped all over the square. A middle‐aged black woman in a print dress broke joyfully into a polka.

...

T.‐G.‐I.‐F. Blast

Every Friday night, as many as 10,000 show up at a downtown “party in the park,” a kind of thank‐Godit's‐Friday blast with 25‐cent beer and live music. Each party ends around 8:30 so that those who attend will fan out into nearby nightspots and new restaurants with names like the Firehouse, Fisherman's Cove and Rusty Scupper.

7 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

This is a great read from 1975 most notably because it's talking about the activity on the malls back then: https://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/05/archives/downtown-cleveland-a-diamond-in-the-rough.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CE8.bCkJ.jjKa_T-olKxr&smid=url-share.

 

Downtown Cleveland A Diamond inthe Rough

CLEVELAND‐The crowd started to gather soon after 11 A.M. on one of those muggy days of early summer, when the haze is so thick that the blue‐gray surface of Lake Erie merges totally with the blue‐gray sky above.

 

But the breeze blowing off the lake onto the grassy mall beside the Cleveland public auditorium was pleasant, and the crowd grew — businessmen in suits with briefcases, hard‐hatted construction workers with lunch buckets, Coast Guard officers, young people in jeans, mothers with children, blacks and whites. The whole city in miniature, it seemed.

 

They clustered under the sycamores and relaxed on the park benches beside the petunia gardens and on the railing of a fountain's reflecting pool, and around the vending stands that sold kosher hotdogs and Italian meatball sandwiches and kielbase and knockwurst in envelopes of unleavened pita bread, and soft drinks and beer, gin‐and‐tonic and scotch‐and‐water.

“Whip it on me!” yelled a good‐natured hard hat, and the little band there especially for the lunchtime carnival did just that. First some rock, then some jazz, then a little soul music and then a polka. Feet tapped all over the square. A middle‐aged black woman in a print dress broke joyfully into a polka.

...

T.‐G.‐I.‐F. Blast

Every Friday night, as many as 10,000 show up at a downtown “party in the park,” a kind of thank‐Godit's‐Friday blast with 25‐cent beer and live music. Each party ends around 8:30 so that those who attend will fan out into nearby nightspots and new restaurants with names like the Firehouse, Fisherman's Cove and Rusty Scupper.

 

 

As I had remembered, this reiterates there were full size trees over the previous convention center along with the wonderful fountains.  I know they ended up having issues with water seeping through, but I believe that was related to the fountains and not the trees.    

21 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Like I've said before. My pet crazy idea is extending the roof of entrance to the convention center over Lakeside Ave as a pedestrian over pass. This creates a green highway for pedestrians almost the whole way from the Lake (assuming landbridge) to public square. Kind of a ridiculous idea, but there's a logical core to it. 

This idea could also be used to replace the natural light they deem so precious on the north side of the Convention Center. The current thinner Y shaped land bridge design to preserve that natural light seems like a bad idea to me. A wide and inviting bridge seems like the best way to encourage it is used as much as possible, and is a great entrance to the city for passengers arriving by train at the new multimedia hub. 

 

Take your idea and have it step down to create more Lakeview seating, and have windows down into the Convention Center on each step down. 

Maybe I'm over reacting but I feel like Public Square inadvertently hurts the malls. They are located very close to each other but Public Square has more consistent (so better?) programming. Since they don't seamlessly flow into each other people on the square don't necessarily know that it exists or just forget. What I think is strange is the amount of hotels that exist right by it but no one visits it. Maybe that is due to nothing interesting existing on the malls like Public Square has (Soldiers and Sailors, Rebol, The water feature/ice rink). I feel that having "fun" furniture or fun, interactive items along the malls would get visitors or families to visit more, that superman plaza would be a good start.

 

Another thing would be shrinking the MASSIVE road that is St. Clair. My goodness that is an intimidating road and with the lack of traffic it is unnecessarily wide, more so than even Superior and even that is getting redone. The road makes the malls seem even more separated. 

32 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

This idea could also be used to replace the natural light they deem so precious on the north side of the Convention Center. The current thinner Y shaped land bridge design to preserve that natural light seems like a bad idea to me. A wide and inviting bridge seems like the best way to encourage it is used as much as possible, and is a great entrance to the city for passengers arriving by train at the new multimedia hub. 

 

Take your idea and have it step down to create more Lakeview seating, and have windows down into the Convention Center on each step down. 

Or just extend the Convention Center into the new land bridge. It could have huge windows on both sides of the land bridge. They'd lose the current windows facing the lake, but get two windows facing the East and West. It doesn't seem like they are really maximizing the windows anyway. Unless The Grand Ballroom C is just awesome and has a fantastic view.

 

 

 

sculpture garden

Is the grand ballroom used very often?  Are the windows really that important?  Doesn't the new addition (Med Mart) also have a ballroom?

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

Or just extend the Convention Center into the new land bridge. It could have huge windows on both sides of the land bridge. They'd lose the current windows facing the lake, but get two windows facing the East and West. It doesn't seem like they are really maximizing the windows anyway. Unless The Grand Ballroom C is just awesome and has a fantastic view.

 

 

I think this was many people's Urban Planning project at the School of Urban planning.  I know it was mine.  

 

Supposedly, at least since Covid there has been much less emphasis on big exhibit halls and more emphasis on meeting rooms.  There have been many articles about this.     

Edited April 24Apr 24 by willyboy

I posted this about 5 years ago while exploring a way to expand the Convention Center. And also to connect the elevated part of Mall B over Lakeside to Mall C and the land bridge.

like this idea

This was what was originally proposed for The Malls when it was being imagined as a whole development.  The minimal was executed but many of the items were considered to add later on. Unfortunately nobody has raised the monies for completing any further enhancements These plans were developed back in 2014

https://www.mclv.co/projects/past/connecting-downtown-cleveland-master-plan. 

It's been awhile since we've handed out any suspensions but with all the ridiculously off-topic posts (from people who know better), maybe that needs to change.

 

Also - for those who enjoy complaining about how the Admins and Mods do/don't run this forum to your preferred standard:

1. Why do you keep coming here? 
2. When was the last time you offered to help out, or contribute? 
3. Why haven't you started your own better-managed forum during the 21 years this place has been around? Our Admins and Mods have families, full time jobs, etc. and still make time to provide this space.