February 11, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, Pablo said: Looks like there's an update coming from Casto for the Giant Eagle site. From the Harrison West Society facebook page: So what are the predictions? Casto is certainly capable of doing larger projects, but so much of their portfolio is your standard suburban apartment complexes. So will it be more like neighboring Heritage Pointe or something more like their Graceland Flats?
February 11, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: So what are the predictions? Casto is certainly capable of doing larger projects, but so much of their portfolio is your standard suburban apartment complexes. So will it be more like neighboring Heritage Pointe or something more like their Graceland Flats? Or maybe like River and Rich?
February 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, jonoh81 said: So what are the predictions? Casto is certainly capable of doing larger projects, but so much of their portfolio is your standard suburban apartment complexes. So will it be more like neighboring Heritage Pointe or something more like their Graceland Flats? I’m definitely in the minority here, but I wish we’d see townhomes for half of the front at street level and apartments above/in the back/ on the side. Or at least some sort of walk up apartment feel fronting Neil. I recognize CVS is there to stay, and the community wants a grocery store of some sort, so townhomes would really limit retail. I just love driving down Neil and don’t want to see something without character and charm that matches the rest of Neil.
February 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, jonoh81 said: So what are the predictions? Casto is certainly capable of doing larger projects, but so much of their portfolio is your standard suburban apartment complexes. So will it be more like neighboring Heritage Pointe or something more like their Graceland Flats? IIRC, when they first started talking about redeveloping this site, they were talking about something similar in height to Thurber Village with ground floor retail, and neighbors really wanted a new grocery store. I think whatever they put here should definitely be 10+ stories with a mix of apartments and town homes/condos.
February 11, 20223 yr The property is big enough that they could do underground parking and build big on top.
February 11, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, wpcc88 said: The property is big enough that they could do underground parking and build big on top. They could also afford the underground parking, because units in this area will be insanely expensive.
February 16, 20223 yr Harrison West published Casto’s plans - looks like 5 story residential and a couple of commercial buildings on Neil. http://harrisonwest.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Casto.pdf
February 16, 20223 yr *yawn* They really talked themselves up... for this? Still leaving parking lot exposure for 1/3 of their property on Neil... 100% suburban single stories.... yikessssssss Edited February 16, 20223 yr by DTCL11
February 16, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, DTCL11 said: *yawn* They really talked themselves up... for this? Still leaving parking lot exposure for 1/3 of their property on Neil... 100% suburban single stories.... yikessssssss Yikes, that is pure trash. I feel like the commission will not want this. It is basically the same as what is there, just moved closer to the road.
February 16, 20223 yr 14 minutes ago, VintageLife said: Yikes, that is pure trash. I feel like the commission will not want this. It is basically the same as what is there, just moved closer to the road. This site isn’t covered by a commission that I’m aware of
February 16, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Pablo said: This site isn’t covered by a commission that I’m aware of Who has final say that it can be built, just city council? Yeah I guess I meant the community, from what I remember, wanted good urban development here, but I could be wrong.
February 16, 20223 yr Wow, that is downright awful. This is really the best they could come up with? That's such a prime piece of land that could totally support something significantly taller than 5-story residential, structured parking, and multi-level retail. What a disappointment.
February 16, 20223 yr Oof. Building A looks so bad. Something like this would fit in the suburbs…not right on Neil.
February 16, 20223 yr Yeah, no. This is barely even an improvement over what’s currently there. Watch this one fly through approval in record time 🙄
February 16, 20223 yr wtf is this garbage.... you have to be kidding me. They held community engagement meetings and hyped up local media for this? One of the densest and most walkable neighborhoods in the city and they are doing two out-parcel strip stores and a 5-story residential wrapped around a party house/leasing office. Frankly, what a waste, just don't bother and find a developer who does.
February 16, 20223 yr My guess is the unmarked building is already leased by an unnamed grocery tenant. I don’t love it either but nobody here that lives in the area can deny that it’s been a need ever since Giant Eagle closed. With the addition of even more elderly and younger people to the neighborhood it makes sense.
February 16, 20223 yr 31 minutes ago, wpcc88 said: My guess is the unmarked building is already leased by an unnamed grocery tenant. I don’t love it either but nobody here that lives in the area can deny that it’s been a need ever since Giant Eagle closed. With the addition of even more elderly and younger people to the neighborhood it makes sense. A grocery store across a single highway from downtown should not and need not be a single floor, single-use building. This is as dumb as that Kroger at King and High. Why not an urban Meijer? Grand Rapids: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ntKzFxCU711oFoDg9 Cleveland: https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/12/14/community-partners-break-ground-on-52-8-million-grocery-market-and-apartment-complex-in-cleveland-innovation-district/
February 16, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, aderwent said: Why not an urban Meijer? We used to have one of those, but it was closed a few years ago.
February 16, 20223 yr 18 minutes ago, aderwent said: A grocery store across a single highway from downtown should not and need not be a single floor, single-use building. This is as dumb as that Kroger at King and High. Why not an urban Meijer? Grand Rapids: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ntKzFxCU711oFoDg9 Cleveland: https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/12/14/community-partners-break-ground-on-52-8-million-grocery-market-and-apartment-complex-in-cleveland-innovation-district/ I was really happy to see in all the feedback that downtown area commission (or whatever downtown related group of decision makers it was) noted the need for a grocery store downtown was high on a lot of peoples lists. I know it was my #1 thing when I submitted feedback and I don't even live downtown!
February 16, 20223 yr 11 hours ago, Pablo said: Harrison West published Casto’s plans - looks like 5 story residential and a couple of commercial buildings on Neil. http://harrisonwest.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Casto.pdf I'd like to say this is a surprise, but that's why I asked the question of what people thought it was going to be. Their portfolio is filled with this kind of crap. But this is arguably much worse just because the location has so much potential and they've offered one of the worst possible proposals. Only 2 things would be worse- expanded surface parking only or replacing the existing strip malll with a new strip mall (which, ironically, would also be right up their alley since they basically created the entire concept of the strip mall back in the 1920s). Really disappointing considering they have the ability to do so much better. This isn't Homeport we're talking about. Edited February 16, 20223 yr by jonoh81
February 16, 20223 yr 44 minutes ago, aderwent said: A grocery store across a single highway from downtown should not and need not be a single floor, single-use building. This is as dumb as that Kroger at King and High. Why not an urban Meijer? Grand Rapids: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ntKzFxCU711oFoDg9 Cleveland: https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/12/14/community-partners-break-ground-on-52-8-million-grocery-market-and-apartment-complex-in-cleveland-innovation-district/ This. Could not agree more. My friend lives above the Grand Rapids Bridge Street Market and loves her life. It seems pretty clear by the renderings they have a grocery store tenant, and as a resident of the neighborhood, I’m happy about it. It seems like they took that to heart from the meeting. BUT if it’s a grocery store, there is no reason there couldn’t be apartments above it, and I certainly don’t see a reason reason the building couldn’t have been turned so it filled in on Neil with parking lots in the back. I’m even disappointed in the apartments. I was really hoping for apartments with more character and charm. I really think a first floor with a walk up front door would have been perfect here.
February 16, 20223 yr 55 minutes ago, aderwent said: A grocery store across a single highway from downtown should not and need not be a single floor, single-use building. This is as dumb as that Kroger at King and High. Why not an urban Meijer? Grand Rapids: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ntKzFxCU711oFoDg9 Cleveland: https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/12/14/community-partners-break-ground-on-52-8-million-grocery-market-and-apartment-complex-in-cleveland-innovation-district/ Isn't there a more urban-style GE over in Bexley? You don't have to look very far.
February 16, 20223 yr 22 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: Isn't there a more urban-style GE over in Bexley? You don't have to look very far. Yeah, but that's still just single use. Although it does have a small sit down restaurant on the second floor.
February 16, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, smjjms said: This. Could not agree more. My friend lives above the Grand Rapids Bridge Street Market and loves her life. It seems pretty clear by the renderings they have a grocery store tenant, and as a resident of the neighborhood, I’m happy about it. It seems like they took that to heart from the meeting. BUT if it’s a grocery store, there is no reason there couldn’t be apartments above it, and I certainly don’t see a reason reason the building couldn’t have been turned so it filled in on Neil with parking lots in the back. I’m even disappointed in the apartments. I was really hoping for apartments with more character and charm. I really think a first floor with a walk up front door would have been perfect here. If I lived in Harrison West I would start fighting against this hard. I’m sure the majority of people want something dense. Round them all up and make a big fuss. This is actually something to fight against, unlike the GV one.
February 16, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, cbussoccer said: We used to have one of those, but it was closed a few years ago. I hear one opened up in Florida...
February 16, 20223 yr Just sent CASTO an email telling them this development is a joke and horrible for the area. I’m sure it will go unread, but I also sent the Harrison West Society a message urging them to send CASTO back to the drawing board. The vote is being taken tonight. Harrison West Society told me to send an email to [email protected] with feedback and specifics that they would pass along at the meeting tonight. So if you want feel free to do the same. Edited February 16, 20223 yr by VintageLife
February 16, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, GCrites80s said: I hear one opened up in Florida... This was a Grand Opening, and a Grand Closing! lol on topic, people in the neighborhood should make a big fuss about this and demand more and better.
February 16, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, VintageLife said: Just sent CASTO an email telling them this development is a joke and horrible for the area. I’m sure it will go unread, but I also sent the Harrison West Society a message urging them to send CASTO back to the drawing board. The vote is being taken tonight. Harrison West Society told me to send an email to [email protected] with feedback and specifics that they would pass along at the meeting tonight. So if you want feel free to do the same. Thanks for sharing that. I’ll be sure to send an email. With the insane incoming population and being in one of the city’s most desirable neighborhoods, you would think it would be a no brainer to better utilize the land they have there.
February 16, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, VintageLife said: Just sent CASTO an email telling them this development is a joke and horrible for the area. I’m sure it will go unread, but I also sent the Harrison West Society a message urging them to send CASTO back to the drawing board. The vote is being taken tonight. Harrison West Society told me to send an email to [email protected] with feedback and specifics that they would pass along at the meeting tonight. So if you want feel free to do the same. Thanks for this, I just sent an email to the recommended address as well and would certainly encourage others to do the same. The development as proposed would be a gross misuse of the site. Hopefully they can be swayed to provide an actual dense, urban environment befitting the neighborhood and community.
February 16, 20223 yr Plan Unveiled for Redevelopment of Neil Avenue Shopping Center CASTO will be presenting its plan to redevelop the Thurber Village retail plaza tonight during a virtual meeting of the Harrison West Society. The five-acre site, which sits at the southwest corner of Neil and Buttles Avenues, is home to a CVS pharmacy, Great Clips, and Boston Stoker Coffee Company. The Giant Eagle grocery store that occupied the largest space in the center closed in 2017, and Spinelli’s Deli and Oodles Noodle & Dumpling Bar also recently closed. The new concept would fill in a portion of the large surface parking lot that currently takes up over half of the site with two commercial buildings. One of the new buildings – the one at the northern edge of the site – would hold a new CVS, while a tenant or tenants for the second building has yet to be identified. A parking lot between the two buildings would have space for 77 cars. More below: https://columbusunderground.com/plan-unveiled-for-redevelopment-neil-avenue-shopping-center-bw1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 16, 20223 yr Hi all. Just sent an email as well. I am a resident of Bexley but I would love to see each part of Columbus become more dense and urban friendly. Having the 2 story Giant Eagle here, has been fantastic. Bexley and GE did a great job of putting the small parking area behind and the grocery right up to Main St.. I walk, bike or drive to this grocery multiple times a week and it fits in with Bexley perfectly. I believe something simlar can and should be done at this site as well.
February 16, 20223 yr I also sent an email! I can’t make the meeting this afternoon because of work, but if anyone tunes in, please share what was said! I’d greatly appreciate it!
February 16, 20223 yr Email sent! If I knew how to copy gifs into here this sentence would be a gif from Starship Troopers.
February 16, 20223 yr Email sent, was pretty blunt but constructive. YIMBY mode in full force against this disaster. I hate we have to fight for a more urban development in the center of the city basically... ridiculous. Edited February 16, 20223 yr by DevolsDance
February 16, 20223 yr Email sent! Mentioned the height of multiple Poindexter Thurber buildings that could be matched on the south end of this property with the grocery and CVS fronting Neil and some townhomes along Buttles. Gave examples of urban groceries that I mentioned here plus Cincinnati's downtown Kroger. Brought up our serious housing shortage. Hopefully our words resonate with them! Edited February 17, 20223 yr by aderwent
February 16, 20223 yr My email: To whom it may concern, The proposed development for the Giant Eagle site on Neil Avenue by Casto has far too many shortcomings to move forward as is. The 5-acre site has endless potential given its urban location so near Downtown and the Short North, yet Casto is treating it like its location is out on the edge of Hilliard sprawl. The issues: -The proposed density is far too low. A single 5-story building at the back the of the site just doesn't cut it. Even if the proposed 2nd building does get built, residential would still encompass perhaps 50% of the entire site. That's far too low. Given the ongoing housing crisis in Columbus, combined with rapid population growth and a future with even more expected, these types of sites should maximize density, not be afraid of it. -The 2 single-story outbuildings along Neil separated by an enormous surface lot should be an automatic non-starter. It's embarrassing that such a thing was even proposed at all for such a prominent site. Again, this isn't the suburbs and the site should be respected for its location. -Whatever does get built should be actual mixed-use. The retail portions of this should be incorpated into the main buildings, not separated from them. And all of it should front Neil Avenue. Before the 1960s demolitions, the buildings on this site were fronted along the street, not setback, so a zero-setback pattern would actually be more historically accurate. I encourage Harrison West members to reject this proposal and fight for something that not only respects the size and scope of the site, but addresses the needs of the overall community with established urban form and density. To do otherwise does a disservice to all.
February 17, 20223 yr Honestly, it would be better if they simply flipped what they proposed. Front the apartment buildings to Neil with ground floor retail and put the less dense spots in the back. It would help with traffic and “wall” off Neil. I'm telling you guys, I can almost guarantee they have that unmarked building leased or at least tentatively leased. My guess is either Giant Eagle is finally out of their agreement or they’re the customer and going to be putting in a small foot print again. That one in Grandview is ridiculously busy and that’s before thousands more units come online in the next 6 months-3 years. Doesn’t make sense to put one in the A-D anymore like they proposed for the site where Chipotle now stands.
February 17, 20223 yr Residents voice concerns over Casto's plans to redevelop Giant Eagle site in Harrison West On Wednesday night, Casto shared plans to turn the Thurber Village shopping center in Harrison West into a mixed-use development with a five-story apartment building. Some area residents liked what they heard at the Harrison West Society's virtual meeting. Some didn't, citing concerns over design and increased traffic. Plans call for two commercial buildings to be built on the center's parking lot that fronts Neil Avenue. The commercial building closest to the corner of Neil and Buttles avenues would include about 13,000 square feet of leasable space. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2022/02/17/casto-shopping-center-redevelopment-follow-up.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 17, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: Residents voice concerns over Casto's plans to redevelop Giant Eagle site in Harrison West On Wednesday night, Casto shared plans to turn the Thurber Village shopping center in Harrison West into a mixed-use development with a five-story apartment building. Some area residents liked what they heard at the Harrison West Society's virtual meeting. Some didn't, citing concerns over design and increased traffic. Plans call for two commercial buildings to be built on the center's parking lot that fronts Neil Avenue. The commercial building closest to the corner of Neil and Buttles avenues would include about 13,000 square feet of leasable space. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2022/02/17/casto-shopping-center-redevelopment-follow-up.html It also says that the CASTO rep said that CVS says their building has to be one story
February 17, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, VintageLife said: It also says that the CASTO rep said that CVS says their building has to be one story If that’s the case, with such a prime piece of real estate, I would rather try just wait until the lease ends to redevelop then, when they can do something more significant. Edited February 17, 20223 yr by amped91
February 17, 20223 yr I was able to tune in to the meeting, but was working during it and wasn’t able to pay full attention. Some high level takeaways that I remember were: - CVS is controlling this big time. They are only allowing one story, demanding a drive through, and parking to be a certain way. Casto seemed just as annoyed about it as we are, and apparently they are still trying to negotiate. Some people thought it would be better to wait until the lease is up but I remember at the meeting 2 years ago it was shared that lease has around 20 years still…. - the second building tenant is going to be unnamed for a while. It’s only one tenant, and they’re “contingent” so they won’t let them share, and we won’t know at next months vote either. One tenant with that much square feet seems pretty obvious to me what it will be, just not sure who - it wasn’t clear to me why this building was only one story. And it also wasn’t clear to me why the only entrance to this building was on the inside towards the parking lot, with no entrance facing Neil. Casto said they were still amenable to change, but the vote is next month and I doubt they add stories in a month… - apparently the retail building renderings aren’t updated and that they are going to develop a small plaza type area to try to hide the parking lot between the buildings. I couldn’t pay as much attention during this so I may have missed some things - CVS is demanding to stay open the whole time, so the streets will still be open, and the old building won’t be knocked down until the new CVS is up. The goal is for the new CVS to be done by next summer - they emphasized that the trees were staying, and that they’re investing a ton into foliage, which I think the community liked - the community had a lot of concern for traffic and accidents. Lots of comments that wanted to know what Casto was going to do about pedestrians crossing and their safety
February 17, 20223 yr A few thoughts: 1. Why does one tenant have so much control of a new development? CVS should not have this much say in the project. They do not need a one story build and they certainly do not need a drive thru in this part of town. That should be a non-negotiable factor. This will be heavily trafficked by people on foot. 2. The other commercial building is also prime for additional height. 3. Update the retail renderings prior to the neighborhood meeting.
February 17, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, smjjms said: I was able to tune in to the meeting, but was working during it and wasn’t able to pay full attention. Some high level takeaways that I remember were: - CVS is controlling this big time. They are only allowing one story, demanding a drive through, and parking to be a certain way. Casto seemed just as annoyed about it as we are, and apparently they are still trying to negotiate. Some people thought it would be better to wait until the lease is up but I remember at the meeting 2 years ago it was shared that lease has around 20 years still…. - the second building tenant is going to be unnamed for a while. It’s only one tenant, and they’re “contingent” so they won’t let them share, and we won’t know at next months vote either. One tenant with that much square feet seems pretty obvious to me what it will be, just not sure who - it wasn’t clear to me why this building was only one story. And it also wasn’t clear to me why the only entrance to this building was on the inside towards the parking lot, with no entrance facing Neil. Casto said they were still amenable to change, but the vote is next month and I doubt they add stories in a month… - apparently the retail building renderings aren’t updated and that they are going to develop a small plaza type area to try to hide the parking lot between the buildings. I couldn’t pay as much attention during this so I may have missed some things - CVS is demanding to stay open the whole time, so the streets will still be open, and the old building won’t be knocked down until the new CVS is up. The goal is for the new CVS to be done by next summer - they emphasized that the trees were staying, and that they’re investing a ton into foliage, which I think the community liked - the community had a lot of concern for traffic and accidents. Lots of comments that wanted to know what Casto was going to do about pedestrians crossing and their safety Seems like it would just be better to take a huge loss and break the lease with cvs and say screw it. I’m sure it would be millions in loss, but with an actual usable development with a 10+ story with retail and commercial, it seems like they could make that money up. That’s my non building ownership self talking though ha
February 17, 20223 yr 30 minutes ago, smjjms said: CVS is controlling this big time. They are only allowing one story, demanding a drive through, and parking to be a certain way. Casto seemed just as annoyed about it as we are, and apparently they are still trying to negotiate. Some people thought it would be better to wait until the lease is up but I remember at the meeting 2 years ago it was shared that lease has around 20 years still…. If neighbors don't like this, they should run a sign campaign like the Whalers in GV did. Name and shame CVS and try to get people in the neighborhood to stop shopping there.
February 17, 20223 yr Given how much CVS is driving this whole site plan, I’d much rather Casto just develop it piecemeal until CVS either relinquishes some control or their lease expires. Perhaps they could build the 5 story apt building, and just wait to develop the rest. Or maybe we need to publicly shame CVS for holding the neighborhood hostage to poor development…. Casto at least called them out, so maybe that'll help put some pressure on them to be a better neighbor if they see that the residents don't want what they're demanding. edit - @TH3BUDDHA just beat me to it, a whale-esque protest would be perfect here. Edited February 17, 20223 yr by FudgeRounds
February 17, 20223 yr I’ll preface my comment with this - As you all probably can tell, I’m fairly new to the forum, and my knowledge on actual costs, logistics, etc. is definitely limited. That being said, I can’t help but to echo @VintageLife. Frankly, if I’m in my 20s or 30s looking for an apartment, and I see this is 8 mins walking from the short north, near free street parking, and will have a grocery store and cvs below me… I’m sold and likely willing to spend more on rent. This location is so lucrative it’s unreal, so to see one story tenants is absurd, just from a business perspective alone. I really think the blow for this would be softened if the retail building A was multiple stories, with parking built underneath, not at the front of Neil. Like at least give us one building Casto. There’s no reason for the second building to be one story! I think CVS having 20 years on its lease puts us in a sticky spot. I really don’t want this lot empty for 20 years lol. Plus, I’m wondering if the new deal extends the lease period? if Casto isn’t to buy CVS out and if the new deal doesn’t extend the lease period (which I admit is probably not likely), at least by building parking underneath for the grocer, you’re making it a possibility to end the lease with cvs in time and build over it.
February 17, 20223 yr Glad the article from the Dispatch specifically mentions dismay over the suburban nature of the proposal: Retail, apartments floated for Neil Avenue's Thurber Village center and closed Giant Eagle Jim Weiker The Columbus Dispatch The Columbus development company Casto is again floating a plan to redevelop the Thurber Village shopping center at Neil and Buttles avenues in Harrison West. The plan, which Casto presented to the Harrison West Society Wednesday night, calls for replacing the current strip center, which is anchored by a closed Giant Eagle, with two single-story commercial buildings fronting Neil Avenue and a five-story apartment building with enclosed parking in the back. In Wednesday's Zoom presentation, Casto's proposal received a lukewarm reception from neighbors, who called it too bland and too "suburban." https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/2022/02/17/columbus-development-neil-ave-strip-center-would-get-housing-retail/6816947001/
February 17, 20223 yr Has to have a drive thru?! OK, White Castle in the Short North has a drive thru in the attached parking garage. Why is that not an option for them? Can they demolish everything except the CVS? Build townhomes along Buttles with a grocery behind, fronting Neil. A garage in the middle of the site. When the CVS lease ends build a twelve story building along the south side of the parcel.
February 17, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, VintageLife said: Seems like it would just be better to take a huge loss and break the lease with cvs and say screw it. I’m sure it would be millions in loss, but with an actual usable development with a 10+ story with retail and commercial, it seems like they could make that money up. That’s my non building ownership self talking though ha Agreed. For a ridiculously overpriced, understocked, chain convenience store/pharmacy, CVS is being pretty arrogant about their value and importance here. Like druglords protecting their turf & clients, I'm sure they just want access to the seniors and their $$$ in the towers though. For real though, as others have suggested, they alone should not have this much control over the redevelopment of the property. A damned drive-through is the last thing VV needs.
February 17, 20223 yr I’m curious if Westminister-Thurber residents even use this CVS. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that org has their own in-house pharmacy. Really glad to see this getting pushback from the neighbors for being too suburban.
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