57 minutes ago, Dev said:

The building is assessed at a little less than a $1 million. Replacing it with a vacant lot saves them about $30k a year in property taxes. The building is also a Project TIF so it's possible they are using TIF money to pay for the demo. I don't know how to check that though. The City's Insights page on TIFs is just the Districts, not the TIF Projects.

 

And even if the building is vacant, they would have to maintain it and minimally heat/cool it or else the elements would quickly destroy it and lead to it being condemned. My guess is that the annual maintenance/tax costs are in the same ballpark as the demo contract.

Just released Rendering of New WS HQ 😉

27 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Just released Rendering of New WS HQ 😉

Lol, looks like Key Tower in cleveland, but a bit better.

12 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Lol, looks like Key Tower in cleveland, but a bit better.

Would have been nice to have that built when it was proposed. Looked better than the what eventually was proposed for FSW and obviously much better than what was actually built. 

Edited June 7, 20214 yr by Brutus_buckeye

4 hours ago, 646empire said:

Lol, looks like Key Tower in cleveland, but a bit better.

 

It would've been around the same height (sans spire) as well.

2 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

 

It would've been around the same height (sans spire) as well.

I think it was designed by the same person around the same time as Key tower. It appars a bit less boxy but in the same vein.

Helmut Jahn's office did that proposal for FSW. Cesar Pelli, who designed the Aronoff Center, designed Key tower.  Easy enough to mix up...they both swam in that same soup at one time.

On 1/15/2021 at 12:20 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/01/15/western-southern-buys-2-downtown-buildings.html
 

Interesting purchase for Western and Southern. 

 

 

I just heard from a reliable source that W&S has been trying to buy the Cincinnati Masonic Center (which includes the Taft Theater). That's on the same block as the two buildings that they recently acquired, per the article above. So I wonder if they're trying to assemble as much of that block as possible and shove a parking garage there.

They wouldn't be able to tear that building down though, right? No way in hell anyone in council, or dare I say, even Cranley would allow that to happen.

There are many cards that powerful people in this city can play to get historic buildings torn down.

 

I hope you're right, but if my source is correct and W&S is trying to acquire that building, it's certainly not because they love the historic architecture and want to preserve it.

8 minutes ago, taestell said:

There are many cards that powerful people in this city can play to get historic buildings torn down.

 

I hope you're right, but if my source is correct and W&S is trying to acquire that building, it's certainly not because they love the historic architecture and want to preserve it.

maybe with cranley in office for the next few months but I can’t imagine they would be able to pull the same strings if say aftab becomes mayor with a fresh set of new city council faces. 

There was a development concept considered for the masonic temple at least five years ago that called for a hotel tower along Broadway, and then using the temple rooms for conference space, events, etc. That could have potentially demolished the "arm" of the masonic temple that comes out to Broadway. That section is one large theater space, so it theoretically could be removed relatively easily from the remainder of the building. 

 

Perhaps there is a compromise to build a parking garage along Broadway, and preserve the main section of the masonic temple that faces Fifth. 

1 hour ago, taestell said:

it's certainly not because they love the historic architecture and want to preserve it.

Oh I know, your inside information this morning immediately brought back bad memories of their power move to cut down trees at Lytle Park.  They love flexing and flaunting their influence when they can, and this would be the ultimate show of that power.  That said, this is the type of building that would have severe public backlash if it was in danger.  Politicians may jump on the bandwagon and complain about W&S if it was on the chopping block (especially in an election year).

Edited July 7, 20213 yr by 10albersa

The Masonic Center is a non-public building with almost no windows and a bad surface lot at the corner of 5th & Broadway so if that building was repurposed and the section facing Broadway was demolished I wouldn't be too upset, and that would line up with the buildings they bought on 4th to create garage access.

 

That being said, touching the main building that faces 5th and especially touching Taft Theater has to be a non-starter. I know MEMI just opened the ICON at the Banks but the Taft is still a historic theater that will not be allowed by city leaders to be demolished. The people who run/donate to MEMI are also rich and powerful. 

I would be curious as to what they would want to do with the entire block that the Masonic building sits on... W&S already owns a lot of land in the area that could easily accommodate a new garage and HQ building... not to mention what they are tearing down around Lytle Park to create even more space. 

 

If it was a separate hotel/event space development I guess that would make sense, but they also own the two hotels that sit on the park and they have event areas there. 

10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I know MEMI just opened the ICON at the Banks but the Taft is still a historic theater that will not be allowed by city leaders to be demolished. The people who run/donate to MEMI are also rich and powerful. 

 

But MEMI doesn't really have a say in the future of the Taft Theater, they are leasing it from the owners of the building who have been trying to sell it for years. The Children's Theatre of Cincinnati, which currently performs at the Taft, has been looking into buying and renovating the Emery Theater because the future of the Taft is uncertain:

 

Quote

The Emery Theatre would replace the Taft Theatre as the Children’s Theatre’s main stage, as the Masonic Center that houses it is being marketed for sale. Children’s Theatre subleases the Taft from Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, which manages the building. While CSO has nine years left on its lease at the Taft Theatre and there is no imminent danger of losing that as an option, Kern said the group would be able to expand its main stage performances if it owned the theater.

 

I agree that it would be tragic if the building and theater were to be demolished. But I can already think of the excuses that City Council members will make when voting to approve the demolition. "Well, W&S is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a new corporate headquarters that will change Cincinnati's skyline. Losing this one historic building is unfortunate, but it's necessary for the future of our great city."

2 hours ago, taestell said:

 

 

I just heard from a reliable source that W&S has been trying to buy the Cincinnati Masonic Center (which includes the Taft Theater). That's on the same block as the two buildings that they recently acquired, per the article above. So I wonder if they're trying to assemble as much of that block as possible and shove a parking garage there.

I can confirm this. And from what I was told it’s already under contract, W&S has even started to pay for building upkeep 

I guess I just don't know what they would need all that space for. According to the site layout description from @ucnum1on the previous page, plus the purchases along 4th street there is plenty of space for parking under the mixed use portion and under the condo tower and adjacent to the masonic center without needing to demolish the whole block. They could put a parking garage the size of Queen City Square on the site with minimal demolition:

6 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I can confirm this. And from what I was told it’s already under contract, W&S has even started to pay for building upkeep 

Could that building be converted into office space? 
 

 

8 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

 

I agree that it would be tragic if the building and theater were to be demolished. But I can already think of the excuses that City Council members will make when voting to approve the demolition. "Well, W&S is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a new corporate headquarters that will change Cincinnati's skyline. Losing this one historic building is unfortunate, but it's necessary for the future of our great city."

I think the group think of this thread might lean towards falsely believing that the general public cares deeply about historic preservation. I don’t think Cranley, Aftab or almost any politician is going to put up a fight against the business community over something that’s a non-issue to most voters, especially if it means transforming a soon to be vacant theater into a shiny new ‘jobs creating’ tower.

13 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

 

This would be an OK outcome, especially if the historic facade along Broadway could be preserved and the new garage partially hidden behind it.

 

It still doesn't make sense to me why they would want to build a garage west of Broadway though. It seems that the areas east of Broadway (labeled "New Office Tower" and "Mixed Use" above) is big enough to accommodate both a tower and a garage (compare it to the size of Queen City Square) and would have the advantage of the garage being directly connected to the office tower.

 

But obviously they are making acquisitions west of Broadway so they must have some long term plan that involves building something there.

2 minutes ago, Guy23 said:

I think the group think of this thread might lean towards falsely believing that the general public cares deeply about historic preservation. I don’t think Cranley, Aftab or almost any politician is going to put up a fight against the business community over something that’s a non-issue to most voters, especially if it means transforming a soon to be vacant theater into a shiny new ‘jobs creating’ tower.

While I tend to agree, the other side of the coin is how much money and attention was raised with the Save Our Icons movement. The question simply is; is Taft Theater a Cincinnati Icon? Nearly every kid in town has probably seen a play there on a field trip, and many others have seen concerts there, so while I agree that more generic 'historic preservation' isn't important to most voters this building may be important. 

2 minutes ago, Guy23 said:

I think the group think of this thread might lean towards falsely believing that the general public cares deeply about historic preservation. I don’t think Cranley, Aftab or almost any politician is going to put up a fight against the business community over something that’s a non-issue to most voters, especially if it means transforming a soon to be vacant theater into a shiny new ‘jobs creating’ tower.

I think there is a lot of assumptions and fear based off very little to go. There is not even concrete confirmation showing that western and southern owns this building.

 

Instead we have almost 8-9 comments based off rumors and potential and run off conversations about worst case scenarios.

 

Not saying this is necessarily off topic convo, but at the same we are literally commenting back and forth with no real legit local news article, but Hearsay rumors. 

In the past few years, W&S got a women's shelter evicted from Lytle Park because they wanted to take their historic building and transform it into a luxury hotel. Then they proceeded to mutilate that historic building. Then they got the boundaries of the Lytle Park Historic District redrawn (shrunk) and proceeded to demolish multiple historic buildings that were no longer protected. Then they argued that they have control over Lytle Park itself (and the power to override the wishes of downtown residents who use the park) because they donated to the park's upkeep.

 

So yeah, when it comes to W&S, I would always assume that the worse case scenario is possible if not likely. They view the SE corner of downtown as their private campus and will find a way to do whatever they want.

19 minutes ago, taestell said:

In the past few years, W&S got a women's shelter evicted from Lytle Park because they wanted to take their historic building and transform it into a luxury hotel. Then they proceeded to mutilate that historic building. Then they got the boundaries of the Lytle Park Historic District redrawn (shrunk) and proceeded to demolish multiple historic buildings that were no longer protected. Then they argued that they have control over Lytle Park itself (and the power to override the wishes of downtown residents who use the park) because they donated to the park's upkeep.

 

So yeah, when it comes to W&S, I would always assume that the worse case scenario is possible if not likely. They view the SE corner of downtown as their private campus and will find a way to do whatever they want.

they don’t have a good track record, but again there is so much speculation going on in this thread based off very little concrete evidence. It’s kind of becoming a doomsday thread based off hearsay rumors with no actual news to base this off of.

We know that W&S owns a lot of property in the SE corner of downtown and that they intend to build a new corporate HQ tower somewhere and a residential tower somewhere. This has all been reported by reliable news sources. The reason there is a lot of speculation in this thread is because W&S has never presented actual plans to the public. We know that plans exist but the public hasn't seen them yet.

 

Personally, I trust the person who told me that W&S is trying to buy the Taft and the Masonic Center. And the fact that@646empire's comment lines up with that I heard lends me to trust my source even more. But if you want to choose to ignore the rumor, you may.

 

Personally, I would think that the idea @ink and @ucgrady floated above (demolishing only the Broadway wing and building a garage there, while preserving the rest of the building) is the most likely outcome.

 

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

they don’t have a good track record, but again there is so much speculation going on in this thread based off very little concrete evidence. It’s kind of becoming a doomsday thread based off hearsay rumors with no actual news to base this off of.

If you don't like speculation on potential downtown developments, you don't like UrbanOhio :)

 

 I mean seriously the Cleveland Sherwin Williams Headquarters thread has 112 pages of loosely concrete information. We have a long way to go speculating about W&S headquarters.

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

 

If you don't like speculation on potential downtown developments, you don't like UrbanOhio :)

 

 I mean seriously the Cleveland Sherwin Williams Headquarters thread has 112 pages of loosely concrete information. We have a long way to go speculating about W&S headquarters.

I think Queen City Square had quite a few pages back in the day going back to the inception of Urban Ohio. Probably would have had more if the site had been around longer.

Who thinks we get 4 new towers out of all this? 🤪

37 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

Who thinks we get 4 new towers out of all this? 🤪

If someone spreads a rumor that John Barrett has a small member, we might get one large tower...

If it were me I would put the headquarters where I have it shaded in black. It would literally be a Western and Southern Headquarters. 

Say goodbye to the Woodford Building, it's officially no more...

I've said it several times before and will say it again, they better have something good planned, because this was a seriously handsome building.

Over/under on how long it sits vacant? Conversion to parking doesn't count.

28 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

Over/under on how long it sits vacant? Conversion to parking doesn't count.

I am afraid that it will be a parking lot for the Phelps and the Lytle hotel, since both are owned by the umbrella company that is Western Southern...

"Well we were going to build a new headquarters...but remote work!"

On 7/28/2021 at 3:04 PM, Rabbit Hash said:

Over/under on how long it sits vacant? Conversion to parking doesn't count.

 

On 7/28/2021 at 3:33 PM, savadams13 said:

I am afraid that it will be a parking lot for the Phelps and the Lytle hotel, since both are owned by the umbrella company that is Western Southern...

 

Almost ready...

 

Ridiculous this was allowed in one of the oldest parts of downtown. 

It's great having F500 companies in town for all they add to the community. And then there's this. I realize the story is not complete on this, but we all remember Fountain Square West too well.

The old clock atop their parking garage hasn't been working in a long time.  Maybe it caught Covid.  

^ i was speaking with an exec at Eagle a few months back and he was telling me about the design for the new HQ building that they were going to unveil around 2020 before COVID hit. It was an impressive design and still a model in Barrett's office. Unfortunately, the office market right now is not conducive to such a project. Here is hoping that it can get built sometime this decade though. 

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ i was speaking with an exec at Eagle a few months back and he was telling me about the design for the new HQ building that they were going to unveil around 2020 before COVID hit. It was an impressive design and still a model in Barrett's office. Unfortunately, the office market right now is not conducive to such a project. Here is hoping that it can get built sometime this decade though. 

 

I assume it is all but dead, but it was a really nice building.  I'd say it kind of reminds me of the Transamerica Tower in San Francisco.  NDAs were signed by everyone that worked on the project.  

Edited April 24, 20232 yr by nicker66

18 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

 

I assume it is all but dead, but it was a really nice building.  I'd say it kind of reminds me of the Transamerica Tower in San Francisco.  NDAs were signed by everyone that worked on the project.  

Definitely will not happen in the next 5 years but who knows. I know the model is still on display in the executive office at Western Southern, so maybe a sliver of hope.

6 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Definitely will not happen in the next 5 years but who knows. I know the model is still on display in the executive office at Western Southern, so maybe a sliver of hope.

What were we looking at height wise with the model?

13 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

What were we looking at height wise with the model?

I did not get a view of it. ONly from what I was told by an Eagle exec. Said it was a transformational building and it was going to be one of the signature pieces of downtown but did not quite state if it would be the tallest or just one of the top 3.

28 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I did not get a view of it. ONly from what I was told by an Eagle exec. Said it was a transformational building and it was going to be one of the signature pieces of downtown but did not quite state if it would be the tallest or just one of the top 3.

 

Will they mount the old spinning clock at the tippy-top?

I did not get a view of it. ONly from what I was told by an Eagle exec. Said it was a transformational building and it was going to be one of the signature pieces of downtown but did not quite state if it would be the tallest or just one of the top 3.

Wasn't the plan to do multiple buildings? With one of the towers being residential where the current parking garage sites. Could they possibly be looking to do more residential? Not to be morbid but I can see Barrett wanting to build this before his passing, one last major project.


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