Posted November 4, 20213 yr Pureval sprints past Mann to become Cincinnati’s next mayor Quote Hamilton County Clerk of Courts Aftab Pureval won a sweeping victory in the race for Cincinnati mayor on Tuesday, defeating veteran Councilman David Mann by a 66% to 34% margin, with nearly all of the vote counted. Pureval, whose father is from India and mother is from Tibet, will become Cincinnati’s first Asian American mayor. "Tonight, we have made history," Pureval told supporters at Lucius Q in Pendleton. "We've got a clear mandate to move Cincinnati forward. We ran on a bold vision to push Cincinnati forward — an economic recovery with racial equity in the center of the frame." Pureval will end up working with the most Democratic City Council since the 1925 Charter reform. Voters sent eight Democrats, plus Republican-Charterite Liz Keating to council. Five council members, a majority, will be Black. The most seats Democrats have previously secured was seven in 2011. Councilwoman Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney finished first followed by Councilman Greg Landsman, Reggie Harris, Meeka Owens, Victoria Parks, Scotty Johnson, Jeff Cramerding and Mark Jeffreys. Pureval will be inaugurated on January 4, 2022.
November 4, 20213 yr Author Here is a good article about some of his initial plans as Mayor. Pureval outlines plans for city manager, police chief, clerk of courts replacement Quote Mayor-elect Aftab Pureval said he is sticking with plans to conduct a national search for the person he will nominate to serve as city manager. In an interview with the Business Courier on Thursday, Pureval said City Manager Paula Boggs Muething can apply for the job and that he hopes she will serve on an interim basis while the search is completed. It's the same position he had during the mayoral campaign, but the first time he's outlined how he envisions the process working. Under the charter, the mayor nominates a city manager, which the City Council reviewing, interviwing and confirming (or not confirming) the mayor's choice. No City Council has rejected the mayor's nominee since the city went to a stronger mayor form of government in 2001. Pureval also talked about the city getting a new police chief, his conversations with Mayor John Cranley and the relationships e wants to have with the city’s top business leaders. A transcript edited for length and clarity follows.
November 15, 20213 yr Pureval unveils transition team, including outgoing Children's CEO Former Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory, Children's Hospital Medical Center CEO Michael Fisher and civil rights activist and attorney Stephanie Jones will co-chair Mayor-elect Aftab Pureval's transition team. Pureval made the announcement at a news conference Monday morning at the Contemporary Arts Center downtown. The team, which will have additional members, will be working to turn Pureval's plans on economic recovery, housing, public safety and the environment into actionable items. It will also help him vet and choose mayoral staff members. Consultant Harry Kangis also will work with the team. “What people can expect in our first 100 days is bold action," Pureval said. “There’s no bigger issue for me than economic recovery.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/11/15/pureval-transition-team.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
November 19, 20213 yr Aftabulous continues... Mayor-elect Pureval names vice mayor Cincinnati Mayor-elect Aftab Pureval named Councilwoman Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney, who finished first in the Nov. 2 City Council election, as the city’s next vice mayor on Thursday. "I’m looking for a true partner, someone who can step into the role without missing a beat, someone who has been a community leader for decades. Jan-Michele fits all of those qualifications," Pureval told reporters at a news conference at Rockdale Academy in Avondale. Kearney is the CEO of Sesh Communications, the owner of the Cincinnati Herald and Dayton Defender, two African American-focused newspapers, as well as several other publications. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/11/18/mayor-elect-pureval-names-vice-mayor.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 7, 20213 yr Author Aftab has named the chairs for each council committee Reggie Harris, Equitable Growth & Housing Meeka Owens, Climate, Environment & Infrastructure Scotty Johnson, Public Safety & Governance Greg Landsman, Budget & Finance Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney, Healthy Neighborhoods
December 7, 20213 yr Author Here's an article with a little more detail. I don't know if it's a slight to not give the Vice Mayor a committee, but the only real change I would like to see is giving Mark Jeffreys the Climate, Environment, and Infrastructure committee, and maybe then moving Meeka Owens to Healthy Neighborhoods. https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2021-12-07/cincinnati-council-adding-committees-focusing-on-climate-and-housing?s=09
December 15, 20213 yr Why Pureval plans to press Biden administration on Brent Spence Bridge Mayor-elect Aftab Pureval is going to Washington, D.C., today to meet with federal officials about legislation set to send trillions of dollars, much of it to state and local governments, over the next few years and plans to emphasize the importance of the Brent Spence Bridge to the city itself. Pureval also plans to talk with President Joe Biden’s administration about Cincinnati’s budget needs given the change to local economies with large portions of office workers continuing to work from home. Along with other mayors, Pureval, who will take office on Jan. 4, has two meetings scheduled with the treasury department and another at the White House that will include Vice President Kamala Harris, Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia Fudge and the Biden administration’s infrastructure coordinator Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New Orleans and a potential future presidential candidate. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/12/14/pureval-biden-brent-spence.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 27, 20213 yr Author Pureval names interim city manager John Curp, the former Cincinnati city solicitor, will be the city's interim city manager effective Jan. 19, presuming the incoming Cincinnati City Council confirms him. Mayor-elect Aftab Pureval made the announcement Monday afternoon, hours after accepting the resignation of current City Manager Paula Boggs Muething. Pureval announced during the campaign he would conduct a national search for a new city manager and that Muething could apply for the job, a pledge he stuck with after winning the election. Muething opted not to stay on and will work until Curp takes office. "John Curp is a smart, effective, and proven government executive,” Pureval said in a release. “He has the leadership skills to bring innovation and collaboration to the city of Cincinnati. As solicitor, John engaged community and business stakeholders to help get The Banks, Washington Park, Music Hall and other transformational projects for the region across the finish line. He has years of experience advising the city’s departments, boards, and commissions. I’m excited for his leadership to help execute the bold vision that the incoming City Council and I share.” Council is expected to vote on Curp's appointment Jan. 5. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/12/27/pureval-names-interim-city-manager.html?
January 5, 20223 yr New Mayor Pureval: ‘Our incredible potential can be unlocked’ Cincinnati got its first new mayor in eight years on Tuesday, with Mayor Aftab Pureval telling audience members that Cincinnati’s “incredible potential can be unlocked.” Pureval pledged to enact four plans he unveiled during the campaign on affordable housing, the environment, public safety and economic recovery, with racial justice at the center of each. “We have the momentum to make a transformative impact,” Pureval said. “I will not waste this opportunity.” Pureval recalled his family story, one quintessentially American. Pureval’s late father, who was from India, and mother, a native of Tibet, moved to suburban Dayton as refugees. Pureval will be the city’s first Asian American mayor and the first person since Cincinnati returned to directly electing its mayor in 2001 not to have grown up in the city. “In one generation my family went from being refugees to being the next mayor of Cincinnati,” Pureval said. “I doubt my father could have imagined a day like today. “He made the choice to believe.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/04/new-mayor-pureval-our-incredible-potential-can-be.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 5, 20223 yr Pureval indicates he’d consider more measures to fight Omicron variant Mayor Aftab Pureval said Tuesday he would consider after consulting with health professionals whether to impose additional health measures to combat the rapidly spreading Omicron variant of Covid-19. Pureval spoke with reporters at Washington Park in his first news conference as mayor after being inaugurated and also said that the incoming interim city manager, John Curp, is expected to apply for the job permanently. The inauguration was held outdoors because of the variant and attendees were required to wear masks, a rarity even after the pandemic began in 2020. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/04/pureval-indicates-hed-consider-more-measures-to-f.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 7, 20223 yr Pureval in search of new chief of staff Mayor Aftab Pureval is searching for a chief of staff after his initial pick for the job backed out. Neal Brower, the human resources director in the Hamilton County clerk of courts office where Pureval held office until late last year, was originally announced as Pureval’s mayoral chief of staff on Dec. 13. Brower has decades of service in the Ohio Public Employee Retirement System, which is a separate pension system from the Cincinnati Retirement System. Employees in the mayor’s office are in the CRS. Pureval and Brower originally believed Brower would be able to stay in OPERS while working for the city. That turned out not to be the case, Pureval said in an interview with the Business Courier. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/07/pureval-in-search-of-new-chief-of-staff.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 23, 20223 yr I heard no lies... Mayor Aftab Pureval: Cincinnati needs to retain young, diverse workforce Cincinnati should celebrate its history but not allow it to get in the way of its future, Mayor Aftab Pureval said Friday. Pureval spoke to the Northern Kentucky Chamber Friday about links between the region’s communities, how it can face the new challenges brought on by the Covid-19 pandemic and what it needs to bring and retain diverse talent to the city. Pureval, born to Indian and Tibetan parents, is the city’s first Asian American mayor. Pureval explained that one reason he was so out front in promoting the city during the Cincinnati Bengals’ Super Bowl run was because he sometimes perceives the community as too invested in cultural touchstones from the 1970s or 1980s. “You know, I don’t even know what WKRP (in) Cincinnati is," Pureval said, referring to the sitcom about a fictional radio station that aired from 1978 to 1982. "(The Bengals) are young. They are diverse. They’ve got that swagger” people are looking for. The region has the ability to attract diverse talent but has struggled at retaining it, he said, adding many of the racial minorities he worked with at Procter & Gamble before going into politics have left the city. “Our region is not sticky. They’re not staying here,” he said. “What I think the X-factor is in all of this … is telling our story more effectively and in a way that young, diverse talent want to engage with and create a place where they want to be.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/23/mayor-pureval-on-workforce-housing-wkrp.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 27, 20223 yr In a Cincinnati city budget propped up by federal money, Mayor Aftab Pureval introduces new programs Nobody at Cincinnati City Hall is pretending like the budget is structurally balanced anymore. Mayor Aftab Pureval and administration officials acknowledged as much Thursday as they presented his first budget, which uses one-time federal money to make the numbers work. The proposed budget spends $85.6 million from the American Rescue Plan Act funds the city will receive, with part of that going to balance the city’s fiscal year 2023, $470 million general fund budget. It also includes a 4.7% increase in buildings and inspection fees, which the city said is an inflationary increase. The city has been raising such fees for years in an attempt to get the department to pay for more of itself without using tax money. A 5.5% water rate increase approved last year will take effect in 2023. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/26/in-a-city-budget-propped-up-by-federal-money-new.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 27, 20223 yr On 5/23/2022 at 10:09 AM, ColDayMan said: I heard no lies... Mayor Aftab Pureval: Cincinnati needs to retain young, diverse workforce Cincinnati should celebrate its history but not allow it to get in the way of its future, Mayor Aftab Pureval said Friday. Pureval spoke to the Northern Kentucky Chamber Friday about links between the region’s communities, how it can face the new challenges brought on by the Covid-19 pandemic and what it needs to bring and retain diverse talent to the city. Pureval, born to Indian and Tibetan parents, is the city’s first Asian American mayor. Pureval explained that one reason he was so out front in promoting the city during the Cincinnati Bengals’ Super Bowl run was because he sometimes perceives the community as too invested in cultural touchstones from the 1970s or 1980s. “You know, I don’t even know what WKRP (in) Cincinnati is," Pureval said, referring to the sitcom about a fictional radio station that aired from 1978 to 1982. "(The Bengals) are young. They are diverse. They’ve got that swagger” people are looking for. The region has the ability to attract diverse talent but has struggled at retaining it, he said, adding many of the racial minorities he worked with at Procter & Gamble before going into politics have left the city. “Our region is not sticky. They’re not staying here,” he said. “What I think the X-factor is in all of this … is telling our story more effectively and in a way that young, diverse talent want to engage with and create a place where they want to be.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/23/mayor-pureval-on-workforce-housing-wkrp.html That's true, Columbus is much better at retaining those folks than Cincinnati. I can think of colossal amounts of Columbus that have these types of highly-educated immigrant families (Polaris/Lewis Center, "Olentangy" as in west of ORR from North Broadway to Bethel, Bethel itself, Dublin, Bexley and then sprinkled in Berwick, the SE side, Worthington, Westerville, New Albany, Gahanna, more. Yet in Cincinnati I can't think of many clusters of this cohort at all. The Dales and Woodlawn maybe? The parts of Cincinnati most like the Columbus Cool Crescent.
August 17, 20222 yr Mayor Aftab Pureval set to name city manager finalists Mayor Aftab Pureval plans to reveal the finalists for the new permanent Cincinnati city manager position on Wednesday. The Business Courier has learned there are two finalists — current Interim City Manager John Curp and Assistant City Manager Sheryl Long. The charter requires a council majority in order to confirm a new, permanent city manager and for the mayor to allow members to interview candidates he considered. Pureval plans to have council members meet with the finalists before picking the nominee. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/08/17/mayor-set-to-name-city-manager-finalists.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
November 16, 20222 yr Pureval pledges tax abatement, land use overhaul; appoints P&G CEO to lead financial review Cincinnati will revamp its residential tax abatement program and zoning code as well as appoint a new commission to study the city’s finances as it faces budget deficits after pandemic-era federal aid runs out, Mayor Aftab Pureval said in his first state-of-the-city address Tuesday. Pureval spoke for about 42 minutes to a crowd of more than 200 at Union Terminal in the West End about 10 months after taking office for his first four-year term. Way more below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/11/15/pureval-state-of-the-city.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 3, 20232 yr Cincinnati tax abatements: Schools would gain under Mayor Aftab Pureval's proposal The Cincinnati Federation of Teachers has criticized Mayor Aftab Pureval’s overhaul of the city’s residential tax abatement program, saying it does not go far enough in trimming tax breaks, but a new city analysis says public schools stand to gain under the policy. The city applied the new policy, which reduces the value and length of abatements in the city’s wealthiest neighborhoods, to all 3,857 active residential tax abatements throughout the city. The conclusion? Cincinnati Public Schools would receive an additional $1.33 million per year in revenue. The teachers union has said CPS’s own data shows it does not receive $7 million in property tax revenue that it would receive if there were no residential tax abatements whatsoever. The union has called for a moratorium on abatements while more research is done. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/03/cincinnati-tax-abatements-schools-would-gain.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 24, 20232 yr https://www.wvxu.org/politics/2023-03-23/mayor-aftab-pureval-answers-questions-tax-abatement-reform-nathan-ivey Quote Ivey asked Pureval: "Do you believe these proposals will lead to a more equitable city?" "I do, but not by themselves," Pureval replied. He says even if the abatement program went away altogether, the city would still have a wealth gap and segregated neighborhoods. "Because the causes of those wealth gaps and the segregation are multifaceted, right?" he said. "It's institutional racism, systemic racism that led to redlining, the inability for Black families to own homes — which is the primary tool that Americans use to generate wealth — the inability to have access to jobs that have good wages and good benefits." Home ownership is not a significant wealth-building tool in the Midwest and most Cincinnatians lost money on homes within the city limits during the postwar decades. The 2008 housing crash was caused in part by efforts to get minorities on the so-called "property ladder" in the 1990s. No redlining map has ever been found for Cincinnati, and even if it did occur, it's completely irrelevant in a city that was in steady decline from the 1960s until roughly 2015. Aftab goes full Jabroni.
March 24, 20232 yr Quote When you consider that many Americans are not invested in the stock market, “the forced savings of a monthly mortgage is a key reason why housing has served as an engine of growth for the middle class over the last 50 years,” Richardson added https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/homeownership-doesnt-build-wealth-study-finds.html While you may be correct that it isn't the best way to build wealth. Most Americans aren't financially literate and a mortgage payment being "forced savings" is an important way Americans build wealth. Whether or not there were "official" redlining maps is irrelevant. It was done across all US cities. And Cincinnati's current day segregation could tell you that. https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/d76e295c27bc45deba50273ac9fc06fd Edited March 24, 20232 yr by 10albersa
March 24, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, Lazarus said: https://www.wvxu.org/politics/2023-03-23/mayor-aftab-pureval-answers-questions-tax-abatement-reform-nathan-ivey Home ownership is not a significant wealth-building tool in the Midwest and most Cincinnatians lost money on homes within the city limits during the postwar decades. The 2008 housing crash was caused in part by efforts to get minorities on the so-called "property ladder" in the 1990s. No redlining map has ever been found for Cincinnati, and even if it did occur, it's completely irrelevant in a city that was in steady decline from the 1960s until roughly 2015. Aftab goes full Jabroni. That's not today's lending environment though. Houses in the city are appreciating unlike in the postwar decades, especially the late ones ('70s-2000s) since sprawl-only worship is over and SFH development is now constrained. The well-intentioned move to incentivize minority property ownership quickly devolved into a bunch of white people overbuying in subdivisions and developers overbuilding them since that late-'90s/mid-2000s brew of neo-liberals, neo-conservatives and conservatives was running the show, eventually taking all the brakes off and and letting the lenders do their own thing without scrutiny. Today's lending environment supports all types of development -- if you ask if it does it well I'd say "no" but it does give things other than malls and subdivisions at least a chance. Edited March 24, 20232 yr by GCrites80s
March 24, 20232 yr 10 minutes ago, 10albersa said: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/homeownership-doesnt-build-wealth-study-finds.html While you may be correct that it isn't the best way to build wealth. Most Americans aren't financially literate and a mortgage payment being "forced savings" is an important way Americans build wealth. I agree that a home is a "forced savings" account, but one that often loses much more money than a traditional savings account does as compared to investing in the S&P. I know of about five properties in Camp Washington, Price Hill, and Western Hills that my relatives owned in the 1800s and early 1900s. They're all dumps today - most of them worth about $50,000 up until 2015 or so, when everything started taking off more because of monetary policy than a significant influx of new people to the area. One of my relatives owned this palace in the early 1900s: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1097792,-84.5693015,3a,19.7y,299.33h,103.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su4n0iTez7zj1TVFmQ2CcGw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Aftab messes up because he took stuff the Twitter people talk about that reflects events in the biggest coastal cities and applied it to Ohio. 16 minutes ago, 10albersa said: Whether or not there were "official" redlining maps is irrelevant. The effect of redlining had no effect on the inability of minorities to build wealth in Cincinnati because nobody built wealth here by owning a home.
March 24, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, 10albersa said: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/homeownership-doesnt-build-wealth-study-finds.html While you may be correct that it isn't the best way to build wealth. Most Americans aren't financially literate and a mortgage payment being "forced savings" is an important way Americans build wealth. Whether or not there were "official" redlining maps is irrelevant. It was done across all US cities. And Cincinnati's current day segregation could tell you that. https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/d76e295c27bc45deba50273ac9fc06fd Not to play devils advocate because I am a real estate guy but, not all homes are going to appreciate in value and if you buy at the wrong time and the wrong price, simply paying down your mortgage is not a wealth building tool and can even be a wealth losing tool. Yes, it creates some forced savings as you cannot access those funds, but you also lose potential investment power to invest in other vehicles to build wealth. If you own a house for 30 years in the wrong area, yes, your mortgage may be zero but there is no guarantee it would have appreciated over that time (especially if the house is not cared for, or neighborhood goes into blight). In this case, the homeownership because an albatross around the homeowners back as they are stuck in a situation where they lose money over time or that any gain is still way below inflation. Regarding the redlining comment, I think we need to move beyond that at this point. Yes, there was a time before all of our lifetimes where there was redlining going on and it negatively impacted certain neighborhoods and people. Yes there were a lot of people that suffered in poverty because of items like redlining and deed restrictions. However, these items have been gone for at least 70 years now, almost 4 generations. Yes, there are still lingering results, but there has been significant progress. The thing about Aftab which is very tiring is the fact that he needs to rely on these past tropes as if they are still in existence today and act as if the problem is not getting better. The way Aftab talks, it is if we are still living in the 1950s and 1960s from a racial standpoint and to that he is either disingenuous, lying or just refuses to recognize the progress that has been made.
March 24, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: Regarding the redlining comment, I think we need to move beyond that at this point. Yes, there was a time before all of our lifetimes where there was redlining going on and it negatively impacted certain neighborhoods and people. Yes there were a lot of people that suffered in poverty because of items like redlining and deed restrictions. However, these items have been gone for at least 70 years now, almost 4 generations. Yes, there are still lingering results, but there has been significant progress. Don't underestimate those "lingering results." Redlining depressed real estate values and investment in some neighborhoods for generations. When redlining ended (maybe not completely gone until 1970s or 1980s), it did not suddenly increase the value of those neighborhoods to match the neighborhoods with similar development patterns but where investment did occur. We have neighborhoods in the Cleveland area where all the houses are very reasonably priced (and often very poorly maintained), but you can hardly get a loan because the entire neighborhood looks like crap and the bank is s**tting itself thinking of the losses they'll take if they have to repossess. That lingering depressed home value is keeping banks from investing in neighborhoods still today.
March 24, 20232 yr Author I'm already tired of this conversation. Jake loves to pretend that no one is the product of their upbringing, and if you just pick up a job delivering pizzas you'll be successful. It's such an old argument he brings up every once in a while. Until the 1970s black Americans were outright discriminated against legally. It prevented them from building wealth the way that their white counterparts could. Immigrants from Italy or Ireland could quickly assimilate into white culture within one generation after they lost their parents' thick accent. Suddenly you blend in with the dominant, wealthy, white populations. If you are Black, you cannot do the same. You are looked at differently. Today the network of wealth often helps the people the wealthy know. Children of many white families often work for their parents' companies. If your parents don't own companies or have hiring capabilities, a lot of your parents' friends do, and they end up hiring people they know (you). And don't start an argument about Appalachian communities. Not all white families are rich, and there are certainly issues in majority white communities, too. But in general there are fewer barriers, and the numbers are more heavily skewed against Black individuals. Building wealth is difficult when you have such a low starting point and very few connections. Making it easier for Black residents of Cincinnati to buy homes responsibly is absolutely the right thing to do. A first step, and something the city can actually help with. Pretending that the housing market in the city from 1950-2000 is the same as it is today is just incredibly misleading. The reason the city's home values dropped during that period is largely due to the fact that the banks wouldn't lend to minorities for half of that time, and the government actively subsidized homes in the suburbs, thus sapping the wealth from the city. This isn't a hard concept. As more investment comes back to the city, homeownership here is going to be increasingly important. Now is the time to get buy-in from the residents who have been here the whole time before their apartment buildings and homes are sold out from under them.
March 24, 20232 yr All of my close friends from high school do what daddy did for a living, including myself now. They might go off and do something different for a while but it always comes back.
March 24, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, GCrites80s said: They might go off and do something different for a while but it always comes back And if they don't the "safety net" of being able to go back to what daddy does is absolutely a factor in generational wealth-building. You can take risks and be bailed out by your family. You can keep rising. The poor don't have "safety nets" here in the US, and often-times are working 60 hour weeks at two jobs. Throw in kids and there is zero time to get sleep AND earn a degree for upward mobility. Even without kids, you're getting beat-down on a 60hr work week, feeling like there's no where else to go. Of course, this is talking in generalities, of course you'll have the bootstrappers that are able to overcome the odds, but those are the exceptions.
March 24, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, ryanlammi said: Until the 1970s black Americans were outright discriminated against legally. It prevented them from building wealth the way that their white counterparts could. Immigrants from Italy or Ireland could quickly assimilate into white culture within one generation after they lost their parents' thick accent. Suddenly you blend in with the dominant, wealthy, white populations. If you are Black, you cannot do the same. You are looked at differently. Using the 1970s as a starting point, we are at 50 years + now which is about 3 generations ago. Today a child born will not have the restrictions faced by their grandparents to great grand parents in opportunities to find, grow and develop wealth. This does not mean that it will still not be harder for some who start from an underprivileged starting point that have some other non-systemic factors that keep them from being able to possibly rise to the same level as someone who was born higher on the economic ladder, but it means that many of the institutional impediments that have held people back generations ago no longer exist. If this were the 1950's and 1960's the cry of institutional racism and systemic barriers that hold back achievement and the ability to develop wealth would be very valid. However, today, to continue to use the crux of institutional racism and systemic racism is disingenuous of many politicians and does not reflect actual reality of 2022 and these politicians are attempting to try and live in the 1960's again.
March 24, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Foraker said: Don't underestimate those "lingering results." Redlining depressed real estate values and investment in some neighborhoods for generations. I agree there are clearly lingering results, but at the end of the day, you really cant go back and fix the sins of the past, you can only make sure that those impediments no longer exist in the future. This does not mean that many minorities are starting from a point of disadvantage, that is true, but at the same time it means that the barriers are removed to prevent them from seeing success. In the next generation or 2 the playing field will look vastly different provided people take the opportunity they have and move forward instead of trying to re-litigate the wrongs of the past.
March 24, 20232 yr 40 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I agree there are clearly lingering results, but at the end of the day, you really cant go back and fix the sins of the past, you can only make sure that those impediments no longer exist in the future. This does not mean that many minorities are starting from a point of disadvantage, that is true, but at the same time it means that the barriers are removed to prevent them from seeing success. In the next generation or 2 the playing field will look vastly different provided people take the opportunity they have and move forward instead of trying to re-litigate the wrongs of the past. The previous barriers were removed with the end of Jim Crow and redlining, but new ones were created. There are still barriers that remain that prevent economic minorities from moving into higher wealth. It's not a coincidence that even today, zip code is heavily correlated with life expectancy and a child's future prospects are heavily related with the wealth of their parents.
March 24, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, Dev said: The previous barriers were removed with the end of Jim Crow and redlining, but new ones were created. There are still barriers that remain that prevent economic minorities from moving into higher wealth. It's not a coincidence that even today, zip code is heavily correlated with life expectancy and a child's future prospects are heavily related with the wealth of their parents. Those are not from new barriers created. Those were because the those barriers were there 60+ years ago. The barriers are not there anymore. That does not mean it is not still challenging to overcome the neighborhoods. It is not like redlining and Jim Crow went away and other race based barriers took their place. The barriers were removed for achievement, however, the results are not going to be noticed overnight. Go back 40 years and tell me there have not been results and achievement. Yes, there is still a ways to go, but it is not from institutional racism and barriers but rather economic conditions that are holding people back.
March 24, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: Those are not from new barriers created. Those were because the those barriers were there 60+ years ago. The barriers are not there anymore. That does not mean it is not still challenging to overcome the neighborhoods. It is not like redlining and Jim Crow went away and other race based barriers took their place. The barriers were removed for achievement, however, the results are not going to be noticed overnight. Go back 40 years and tell me there have not been results and achievement. Yes, there is still a ways to go, but it is not from institutional racism and barriers but rather economic conditions that are holding people back. The War on Crime was created, after the end of Jim Crow, to disrupt minority communities, and it worked very, very well.
March 24, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, Dev said: The War on Crime was created, after the end of Jim Crow, to disrupt minority communities, and it worked very, very well. The war on crime was created to combat crime. As time went by, we learned a little bit more about what we should be prosecuting and what we shouldn't be prosecuting. If the war on crime was just another creation to apply Jim Crow restrictions in a more subtle way, then you would not have minorities serving in power positions in cities where they supposedly are enforcing such racist rules and regulations. The world is a tough place and there are certainly a lot of inequalities in society and there are some people who have more advantages over others. I get that, however, if you look at all of the problems of society and try and apply it through some lens that society and all structures of society are inherently racist (they aren't) then you will miss opportunities to truly solve the problem or pull yourself out of an environment that is keeping you from succeeding in the first place.
March 24, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said: The war on crime was created to combat crime. Yes, but it also was tailored to more significantly impact minority communities. With greater penalties for African-Americans who were using crack, compared to the whites using cocaine. Same drug, different treatment. "Coincidentally?" Also, by focusing on the supply side and not the demand side there was a greater impact on the poor, mostly minority people desperate enough to sell and distribute, rather than the relatively wealthier and whiter users (particularly of marijuana, cocaine, ecstasy). And by criminalizing drugs coming north but not guns going south (and in fact making it easier to buy lots of guns in the US) there was a disparate impact on armed violence in Mexico and Latin America, and arguably the money and guns from the US destabilized Mexico and countries in Latin America -- which added to the scary MIGRANT CARAVANS issue. We have recently started using drug courts to divert addicted to treatment rather than jail. States have in some cases eliminated the distinctions between crack and powdered cocaine. And we have legalized marijuana (some places). Baby steps, but progress both in reducing the disparate treatment of minorities and more effectively in combating drug crime. The impact of drug use and huge numbers of African-American men with felony drug convictions will impact minority communities for a generations. Like the housing discrimination, the problem is not solved overnight. The effects linger for a long, long time.
March 24, 20232 yr 7 hours ago, ryanlammi said: I'm already tired of this conversation. Jake loves to pretend that no one is the product of their upbringing, and if you just pick up a job delivering pizzas you'll be successful. It's such an old argument he brings up every once in a while. I've made over $250,000 since I graduated from college working hourly wage side jobs on top of my various day jobs. I started reading personal finance books in my late 20s and...followed the instructions. There is a formula to it. Most people are too worried about what people think of them to do what it takes to get ahead. 7 hours ago, ryanlammi said: Building wealth is difficult when you have such a low starting point and very few connections. Making it easier for Black residents of Cincinnati to buy homes responsibly is absolutely the right thing to do. We already have FHA loans that enable people to buy a house with 5% down. The use of credit scores to qualify for loans is as fair as it gets - far fairer than what existed in the past.
March 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: I've made over $250,000 since I graduated from college working hourly wage side jobs on top of my various day jobs. I started reading personal finance books in my late 20s and...followed the instructions. There is a formula to it. Most people are too worried about what people think of them to do what it takes to get ahead. We already have FHA loans that enable people to buy a house with 5% down. The use of credit scores to qualify for loans is as fair as it gets - far fairer than what existed in the past. I'll tell you something about Keeping Up With the Joneses. Some of my friends and their friends and family are susceptible to it while others are not. Since we don't have very good statistics on a concept as nebulous as Keeping Up With the Joneses besides "What is popular sells well" we are stuck with anecdotes especially since a survey would about that sort of thing would be self-reported and people are in big-time denial when it comes to that. Friends note that I "don't care and it's clear that you even think about that kind of stuff" even though I have cool stuff. What is the difference here? My "cool stuff" doesn't cost nearly as much as boring expensive popular new stuff like full-size pickup trucks, McMansions and Fast Fashion clothing. It is stuff that only cool people think is cool and Joneses think is old, cheaper, weird, cranky, gaudy (my favorite) and/or boring. A buddy was talking about his sister-in-law who works triple shifts in order to afford a $700k house and my first reaction was "Man that would suck to work that hard over stuff. It owns you then." and he was like, "You are incapable of thinking like that." I said, "Other people don't think about your stuff that much." Now he's getting mildy frustrated, "You just don't get it. And that's a good thing." After a few months I was reflecting on the conversation wondering why I'm like that. Then it dawned on me that once we moved to the farm when I was 12 "The Joneses" was the trailer park across the road and we had them outgunned pretty good for the most part when it comes to Joneses things merely by having cars that weren't 15 years old and being able to make the bills every month. But far more people today are buried in work and home operational tasks to even think about reading personal finance books while on the other hand consumerism has been dropping steadily ever since grunge hit. This reminds me of a tussle than I got into on here years ago with someone who said that people spend a lot of money on a kitchen so that when they have people over they get lots of comments about how they have a nice kitchen. I said "I see your nice kitchen and instead raise you a regular kitchen with a poster of The Boz taped to the 20-year-old fridge! Now whose kitchen got more attention?!" Who knows who was right? With FHA loans if it's anything like many other programs the government makes it so hard to access assistance in so many cases you need a mentor working with you for a moderate amount of time. Poor people are already constantly frustrated by assistance programs that yet another thing to have to f--- with there isn't always bandwidth available for it. Republicans won't sign off on anything like that unless it's super complex in order to try and think up every way that 1% of people could game the system ahead of time. And they're still not going to catch all the ways anyway since so much American legislation is set-and-forget once it passes so it won't be updated for 39 years. But when they want to take the brakes off they come off super easy (an exception would be Obamacare which has been described as having "the root structure of mint"). Sorry to drag this out off topic, but all of today's discussion could easily be moved to the Housing Market and Trends thread. Edited March 25, 20232 yr by GCrites80s
March 25, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, GCrites80s said: Sorry to drag this out off topic, but all of today's discussion could easily be moved to the Housing Market and Trends thread. It's Aftab who is repeating the popular national Twitter arguments that don't apply to Cincinnati. He gets to win points with the Twitter Progressives by speaking their language but everyone out there in Reality World can hear in his voice that he doesn't really mean any of it and doesn't really care. The whole dilemma with giving people a break on housing is that they'll spend the money they saved on something else, or more likely, just work less. People don't tend to appreciate the things they are given or the things they buy with debt. If you put off a large purchase or trip until you can pay for it with cash, you probably won't even want the thing once you have the money.
March 25, 20232 yr 19 hours ago, Foraker said: The impact of drug use and huge numbers of African-American men with felony drug convictions will impact minority communities for a generations. Like the housing discrimination, the problem is not solved overnight. The effects linger for a long, long time. So this goes well to my overall point, especially when you relate it to politicians like Aftab. Back in the 1980s when the "war on drugs" started, you had seemingly "progressive" politicians at that time leading the large cities. These were the politicians in their day that claimed to be on the side of minorities and push their cause (just like Aftab claims today). They were the ones who embraced a lot of these policies, some of which looking back upon, we see as unsuccessful and we point to systemic racism and other boogeyman ideas that put them there. And the sad thing is that you have "progressive groupthink" that rallies around these bad ideas when the flaws in them are smacking them in the face. A perfect example in Cincinnati recently was the Renters Choice Initiative that PG Sittenfeld championed 4-5 years ago. This was a disingenuous piece of legislation to try and show his credentials as someone who stands up for renters and helps make rental housing affordable, especially for the minority community who is often boxed out by expensive security deposits. He came up with this idea because he went to a conference sponsored by a company call Rhino that had a product that would serve as an alternative to security deposits that they were pushing in New York. They came up with model legislation to allow cities to adopt this in their rental code and essentially give them a monopoly on the business in such cities. PG did not care about the product, he saw it as good potential headlines to show his progressive chops and act like he is solving an important problem and helping poor renters in the process. IN reality, what he was doing was inviting a company in (and legislating them a monopoly) to prey on poor renters through a product that, in many cases created a system where the resident would pay 2-3 times what a normal security deposit would be and, in the process, they would subject themselves to collections if they defaulted. This was lauded by the progressive groupthink across the country at the time as innovative and a way to level the playing field against "systemic racism" and allow minorities access to better housing. It checked all the progressive boxes, but in reality, it created a predatory scheme to take money from those who could least afford it. That is just another reason why the progressive schtick of systemic racism, the rich not paying their fair share, and all the other BS you hear out of Aftab's mouth is just that, a complete crock of sh*t
March 25, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: So this goes well to my overall point, especially when you relate it to politicians like Aftab. Back in the 1980s when the "war on drugs" started, you had seemingly "progressive" politicians at that time leading the large cities. These were the politicians in their day that claimed to be on the side of minorities and push their cause (just like Aftab claims today). They were the ones who embraced a lot of these policies, some of which looking back upon, we see as unsuccessful and we point to systemic racism and other boogeyman ideas that put them there. And the sad thing is that you have "progressive groupthink" that rallies around these bad ideas when the flaws in them are smacking them in the face. Ah, that damned "progressive groupthink" again!
March 25, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: So this goes well to my overall point, especially when you relate it to politicians like Aftab. Back in the 1980s when the "war on drugs" started, you had seemingly "progressive" politicians at that time leading the large cities. These were the politicians in their day that claimed to be on the side of minorities and push their cause (just like Aftab claims today). They were the ones who embraced a lot of these policies, some of which looking back upon, we see as unsuccessful and we point to systemic racism and other boogeyman ideas that put them there. And the sad thing is that you have "progressive groupthink" that rallies around these bad ideas when the flaws in them are smacking them in the face. A perfect example in Cincinnati recently was the Renters Choice Initiative that PG Sittenfeld championed 4-5 years ago. This was a disingenuous piece of legislation to try and show his credentials as someone who stands up for renters and helps make rental housing affordable, especially for the minority community who is often boxed out by expensive security deposits. He came up with this idea because he went to a conference sponsored by a company call Rhino that had a product that would serve as an alternative to security deposits that they were pushing in New York. They came up with model legislation to allow cities to adopt this in their rental code and essentially give them a monopoly on the business in such cities. PG did not care about the product, he saw it as good potential headlines to show his progressive chops and act like he is solving an important problem and helping poor renters in the process. IN reality, what he was doing was inviting a company in (and legislating them a monopoly) to prey on poor renters through a product that, in many cases created a system where the resident would pay 2-3 times what a normal security deposit would be and, in the process, they would subject themselves to collections if they defaulted. This was lauded by the progressive groupthink across the country at the time as innovative and a way to level the playing field against "systemic racism" and allow minorities access to better housing. It checked all the progressive boxes, but in reality, it created a predatory scheme to take money from those who could least afford it. That is just another reason why the progressive schtick of systemic racism, the rich not paying their fair share, and all the other BS you hear out of Aftab's mouth is just that, a complete crock of sh*t Tons of cities were still run by Republicans in the '80s unlike now. You make it sound like it is today when only military towns will vote in Republican mayors. And the "progessive" Democrats from back then don't compare to today's since everything was always being dragged back in the conservative direction back in those days. As far as the Rhino scheme goes that why we don't trust the private sector with anything.
March 25, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, GCrites80s said: Tons of cities were still run by Republicans in the '80s unlike now. You make it sound like it is today when only military towns will vote in Republican mayors. And the "progessive" Democrats from back then don't compare to today's since everything was always being dragged back in the conservative direction back in those days. The largest cities were still run by progressives. The GOP had at least representation on councils in most cities but they were far in the minority. Now they are non-existent. Even in the 80s Cleveland and Cincinnati were run by Democrats. Maybe not at the county level but certainly the city level. New York, LA, DC, San Fran, Boston, etc. all those cities were progressive even back in the day. New York had Rudy back in the 90s but he was more the aberration than the rule. 2 hours ago, GCrites80s said: As far as the Rhino scheme goes that why we don't trust the private sector with anything. See I would take it the opposite way. Rhino may have been a private company but it was full of former staffers who worked for DeBlasio out of NYC for a number of years before setting out on their own. They understood what city leaders wanted and came up with a program to meet their needs and were allowed to get rich in the process because they were connected with the right politicians and political party. Don't trust government too much because when you get rid of competition and put all your faith in a so called benevolent body of elected individuals to do your interest, they will certainly let you down and they will also take more and more power for themselves. The best solution is always a robust private sector to counter corruption.
March 26, 20232 yr On 3/24/2023 at 8:35 AM, Lazarus said: https://www.wvxu.org/politics/2023-03-23/mayor-aftab-pureval-answers-questions-tax-abatement-reform-nathan-ivey Home ownership is not a significant wealth-building tool in the Midwest and most Cincinnatians lost money on homes within the city limits during the postwar decades. The 2008 housing crash was caused in part by efforts to get minorities on the so-called "property ladder" in the 1990s. No redlining map has ever been found for Cincinnati, and even if it did occur, it's completely irrelevant in a city that was in steady decline from the 1960s until roughly 2015. Aftab goes full Jabroni. Redlinging did exist for Cincinnati. This is from the OSU archives. It's unfortunately pretty faded, but it used the same classifications as all other places. Here's a good story related to the https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/d76e295c27bc45deba50273ac9fc06fd Edited March 26, 20232 yr by jonoh81
March 26, 20232 yr On 3/24/2023 at 1:05 PM, Brutus_buckeye said: Using the 1970s as a starting point, we are at 50 years + now which is about 3 generations ago. Today a child born will not have the restrictions faced by their grandparents to great grand parents in opportunities to find, grow and develop wealth. This does not mean that it will still not be harder for some who start from an underprivileged starting point that have some other non-systemic factors that keep them from being able to possibly rise to the same level as someone who was born higher on the economic ladder, but it means that many of the institutional impediments that have held people back generations ago no longer exist. If this were the 1950's and 1960's the cry of institutional racism and systemic barriers that hold back achievement and the ability to develop wealth would be very valid. However, today, to continue to use the crux of institutional racism and systemic racism is disingenuous of many politicians and does not reflect actual reality of 2022 and these politicians are attempting to try and live in the 1960's again. This is either incredible gaslighting or completely oblivious. Systemic racism continues to persist in most institutions, whether it is legally sanctioned or not. Your own party *loves* systemic racism in voting laws, among other things, and gerrymanders away minority power. And that's just for starters. So let's not pretend like it's been a magical last 5 decades in which all or even most discrimination is gone.
March 26, 20232 yr On 3/24/2023 at 5:17 PM, Lazarus said: I've made over $250,000 since I graduated from college working hourly wage side jobs on top of my various day jobs. I started reading personal finance books in my late 20s and...followed the instructions. There is a formula to it. Most people are too worried about what people think of them to do what it takes to get ahead. We already have FHA loans that enable people to buy a house with 5% down. The use of credit scores to qualify for loans is as fair as it gets - far fairer than what existed in the past. There's nothing more delusional than the belief on the Right that one's personal experiences or advantages should automatically apply to all people, and that anyone who doesn't have their success is merely a lazy failure. There is a reason that economic divides continue to widen and the middle class is going down, and it has nothing to do with one's work ethic.
