12 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

where is the overtime money coming from?

 

The city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that under Jackson, they always had to act like they were. 

3 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

The city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that under Jackson, they always had to act like they were. 

 

In Jackson's defense, maybe it's the other way around?

Tax abatement changes:  It seems incongruous to institute an effective increase in property taxes in a city that would like more home ownership, nevertheless the enacted changes to the tax abatement policy seem temperate and defensible.  However, because a high-income two-person couple who move to Cleveland will pay the city much more in income taxes than in a slightly greater property tax, if abatement curtailment causes any reduction in purchasing or construction it should be rescinded quickly, seems to me.

 

 

1 hour ago, X said:

 

In Jackson's defense, maybe it's the other way around?

 

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I think Jackson was a good fiscal steward and deserves credit for the fact that the city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that towards the end, as the city's finances improved, the place still had a culture of extreme cheapness to the point of being detrimental.

10 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

 

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I think Jackson was a good fiscal steward and deserves credit for the fact that the city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that towards the end, as the city's finances improved, the place still had a culture of extreme cheapness to the point of being detrimental.

I remember when the city increased its income tax rate from 2% to 2.5% and Mayor Jackson stated that they really only needed a 0.25% increase but the additional funds would cover enhanced city services. It seems that never really happened. 

8 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I think Jackson was a good fiscal steward and deserves credit for the fact that the city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that towards the end, as the city's finances improved, the place still had a culture of extreme cheapness to the point of being detrimental.

 

That's exactly what I meant.

9 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I think Jackson was a good fiscal steward and deserves credit for the fact that the city isn't hurting for cash. It's just that towards the end, as the city's finances improved, the place still had a culture of extreme cheapness to the point of being detrimental.

Having the cash and just sitting on it is not being a responsible fiscal steward.  It has been common knowledge that Cleveland underpays its officers.  Having them bolt to higher paying jobs in the suburbs only hurts the city.  Not having enough equipment to clean the streets in the winter year after year is negligent, especially when the money was available to expand the snow fighting fleet.  Not having enough fire engines, ladder trucks and EMS vehicles puts lives and property at risk.  So does having a vastly understaffed police department, fire department and EMS division.  Crime victims, people who don't see clean streets in a reasonable period of time or those who wait excessive times for safety forces to arrive don't care about the size of the city's bank accounts.  

 

It wasn't like something totally unexpected came along for the city where they were hit with a massive wave of employees departing over a short period of time.  No calamity took out large numbers of city equipment.  These situations were building for many years and Jackson did nothing to reverse it.  The income tax increase gave him ample money to build up the equipment fleets and improve staffing, but he did nothing.  Bibb is left to fix the mess.  In normal years, expanding fleets and replacing outdated equipment takes time.  It will only take longer with the supply chain issues.  As for staffing shortages, that is a whole different problem to overcome, especially in low-paying, undesirable workplace climates.  

worth mentioning that the city is budgeted to run at a $62 million deficit this year. with CARES money covering the gap.

^^if you think cleveland underpays it’s officers (some of whom are under 30 and make $110k), just wait until you find out what the teachers are paid.

On 5/25/2022 at 4:01 PM, Whipjacka said:

where is the overtime money coming from?

Likely from the .5% tax increase Mayor Jackson pushed through in 2017 with a promise of added services, that of course none of us ever saw.

On 5/25/2022 at 7:01 PM, Whipjacka said:

where is the overtime money coming from?

 

6 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Likely from the .5% tax increase Mayor Jackson pushed through in 2017 with a promise of added services, that of course none of us ever saw.

Overtime will greatly increase the salaries of the Cleveland Police Officers, but at what price?  Burnout? Fatigue? Mistakes caused by burnout and fatigue?  Those can be heavy prices to pay and there comes a time, no matter how nice that paycheck is, the need to cut the stress and get out may become an overriding value.

i was tallking about the parks dept and people pretending like bibb revolutionized the efficiency of the dept when he just paid for more man hours. 

 

he should allocate relief money however he thinks is best, but but budgeting for a deficit due to a high headcount is a problem that even he admits will need to be addressed over the next 2 years.

 

I wish him the best.

 

https://www.wksu.org/government-politics/2022-03-07/cleveland-city-council-moves-mayor-justin-bibbs-budget-forward-with-reservations

 

13 hours ago, Clefan14 said:

^^if you think cleveland underpays it’s officers (some of whom are under 30 and make $110k), just wait until you find out what the teachers are paid.

Do you know how much overtime you would need to work to make 110k? About 1,000 hours of overtime as a PO1 (50 dollars an hour OT) at a 65k base rate. If you're a Sgt it's less but they're so short-staffed they get mandated every other day. 

1 hour ago, KFM44107 said:

Do you know how much overtime you would need to work to make 110k? About 1,000 hours of overtime as a PO1 (50 dollars an hour OT) at a 65k base rate. If you're a Sgt it's less but they're so short-staffed they get mandated every other day. 

Please refer to Raul Moyanos salary from news5 recent article. Also pretty sure he crashed his cruiser first week on the job.

31 minutes ago, Clefan14 said:

Please refer to Raul Moyanos salary from news5 recent article. Also pretty sure he crashed his cruiser first week on the job.

I know Raul personally, he was on my shift last year. He pretty much lives at the district. Two years ago you had to really grind to make that much as OT wasn't as readily available, but now that we are all so short staffed you can pretty much work overtime everyday. We had six spots open tonight filled by guys working OT just to fill a minimum car plan.

 

Back in the day the only guys making that money were traffic unit from all the court time and the airport unit. Now it's everyone. 

 

You can speculate all you want about what's causing the staffing shortage but it doesn't change the fact that there's a massive shortage and there's minimum car plans they expect us to fill not only for officer safety but also due to volume of runs that are handled a night. 

 

 

 

I have heard him and other officers from the same hometown drop racial slurs and post Tucker Carlson, etc. content on social media. So there’s also that. It doesn’t change the fact that he did make that much money when you suggested it was near impossible, is within the age range I listed, and did crash his cruiser during his first weeks on the job. I’m not here to debate his character (he’s human like all of us) just stating it is possible to make that much and that teachers in the city (and the country as a whole) are underpaid. It reflects the nations priorities of militarizing some things and defunding others. I do fully appreciate and hear what you are saying about the staffing shortage(s) and would defer to you on what is causing them and what could potentially fix them. Maybe making more officers aware of resources like the diversion center (the two I asked were not even aware of it) would help and reduce the need for overtime? Once again, not an expert just throwing out ideas.

On 5/28/2022 at 9:12 AM, Clefan14 said:

it is possible to make that much and that teachers in the city (and the country as a whole) are underpaid.

It's not reasonable to compare the compensation of someone working 60 hr weeks all year, with someone working a standard work week with 3 months off. 

 

Anyways... I'm liking Bibb's direction so far, I like the Urban Forestry Revival, I was impressed with his handling of the snow removal issues, and I like the direction he's taking the West Side Market. He also seems to be taking the land bridge idea seriously. None of this is genius level stuff, but it's the kind of basic governing competence I've given up on expecting in Cleveland.  

On 5/28/2022 at 9:12 AM, Clefan14 said:

I have heard him and other officers from the same hometown drop racial slurs and post Tucker Carlson, etc. content on social media. So there’s also that. It doesn’t change the fact that he did make that much money when you suggested it was near impossible, is within the age range I listed, and did crash his cruiser during his first weeks on the job. I’m not here to debate his character (he’s human like all of us) just stating it is possible to make that much and that teachers in the city (and the country as a whole) are underpaid. It reflects the nations priorities of militarizing some things and defunding others. I do fully appreciate and hear what you are saying about the staffing shortage(s) and would defer to you on what is causing them and what could potentially fix them. Maybe making more officers aware of resources like the diversion center (the two I asked were not even aware of it) would help and reduce the need for overtime? Once again, not an expert just throwing out ideas.

I mean as said above comparing a dude whose working 1,000 plus hours of overtime and has no free time (his choice) to a teacher who has a set schedule (or atleast doesn't have to get mandated onto night shift and work from 12am to 8am) doesn't make sense. It amazes me that teachers dont get paid more. 

 

With school heading towards a more year round model it is definitely time to take a look at significantly raising salaries or maybe even going to an hourly rate for teachers. 

 

The diversion center is for very specific misdemeanor crimes and the person has to want to go there. We can't force someone to the diversion center. Honestly the diversion center (though I am a big supporter of it, I am Crisis Intervention Certified) honestly takes up more time with someone who we would have probably not even charged with a crime anyway (we rarely arrest for misdemeanors unless that is the victims wishes), and half the crimes on that diversion center list County won't even take for anyway, so it's just a named suspect report. 

 

Trust me when I say it's a far more time consuming process, because you're spending more time trying to get someone extra help they need opposed to showing up to a scene and temporarily settling a situation that will just play out the next night. 

 

Edit: I really need to stop typing these long replies on my phone. Sorry for errors.  

Edited June 1, 20223 yr by KFM44107

5 hours ago, Ethan said:

It's not reasonable to compare the compensation of someone working 60 hr weeks all year, with someone working a standard work week with 3 months off. 

 

Anyways... I'm liking Bibb's direction so far, I like the Urban Forestry Revival, I was impressed with his handling of the snow removal issues, and I like the direction he's taking the West Side Market. He also seems to be taking the land bridge idea seriously. None of this is genius level stuff, but it's the kind of basic governing competence I've given up on expecting in Cleveland.  

 

Teachers, and I know several very well, do not work standard workweeks, and do not have 3 months off.

 

Mayor Justin Bibb names four more to leadership team

Published: Jun. 01, 2022, 2:12 p.m.

 

Quote

Mayor Justin Bibb Wednesday announced another round of top-level hires, naming new leaders to oversee community relations, public works, capital projects and the city’s approach to transportation.

 

Public Works Director - Frank Williams

Director of Community Relations - Angela Shute-Woodson

Mayor’s Office of Capital Projects Director - James DeRosa

Senior strategist of transit and mobility - Calley Mersmann

Quote

 

Along with developing transportation policy, Mersmann will be tasked with initiatives like Vision Zero, which seeks to reduce traffic deaths, and coming up with ways to enhance public transit.

 

For the past four years, Mersmann worked for the City Planning Commission as bicycle and pedestrian coordinator.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/06/mayor-justin-bibb-names-four-more-to-leadership-team.html

16 hours ago, Ethan said:

It's not reasonable to compare the compensation of someone working 60 hr weeks all year, with someone working a standard work week with 3 months off.

 

 

2 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

 

I'm not sure why being disrespectful in disagreement is considered appropriate in society or this forum, but here we are. It's why I generally don't post outside of the development forums. 

 

13 hours ago, X said:

 

Teachers, and I know several very well, do not work standard workweeks, and do not have 3 months off.

 

 

I wasn't going to reply as we're way off topic, and the intent of my post was to segway back to the current administration (the topic of this thread). That said, here's the best source I can find on the topic. It's an article based on a study that asked to track time usage in 15 minute intervals.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2019/06/12/do-teachers-work-long-hours/

 

As far as time off. It's hard to find a good consensus source, but they mostly put the number of off weeks between 10 and 14. The above source suggests a good amount of work is done during this off time. To be cautious, I'll happily reduce my statement down to two months though to avoid any potential  overstatement on my part. Personally I'd love even 8 weeks off, and I'd take a substantial pay cut to get it.

 

Anyways... How about that Bibb administration?  

Neat seeing Mayor Bibb on ABC National News tonight

 

 

Engage! Cleveland is hosting a "Meet the Mayor" event with Justin Bibb on Friday, June 24th at City Hall.

Quote

At this exclusive Engage! Cleveland event, you’ll have the chance to chat with our city’s new Mayor, Justin Bibb. You can ask questions about his leadership thus far, the city, and how he’s making an impact as a fellow young professional.

https://engagecleveland.org/calendar/2022-ypweek-cleveland-meet-mayor-bibb

Bibb's proposal for spending the ARP money is disappointing.  One-time money like this should be spent on cpital investment items, not operating expenses.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/cleveland-mayor-justin-bibb-announces-broad-plans-to-spend-462-million-in-covid-relief-money.html

The Mayor attended the ribbon-cutting for AMS's move from Erieview to the AECOM Centre.  The British company has 400 local employees with growth plans for 150 more. "Thank you for investing and choosing in Cleveland when you could have chosen so many other places," Bibb said.

 

Showing up for stuff like that counts.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/07/27/ams-aecom-centre-move.html

 

 

9 hours ago, Dougal said:

The Mayor attended the ribbon-cutting for AMS's move from Erieview to the AECOM Centre.  The British company has 400 local employees with growth plans for 150 more. "Thank you for investing and choosing in Cleveland when you could have chosen so many other places," Bibb said.

 

Showing up for stuff like that counts.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/07/27/ams-aecom-centre-move.html

 

 

 

Bright contrast from the infamous Pixar story under Mayor Jackson lol

31 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Bright contrast from the infamous Pixar story under Mayor Jackson lol

I've heard that there was a story but haven't heard many details. Care to tell more if you know anything?

30 minutes ago, MikeyB440 said:

I've heard that there was a story but haven't heard many details. Care to tell more if you know anything?

 

At risk of derailing the thread and absconding my mod duties - in short, local business folks had pitched Pixar with opening a sizable operational presence in Cleveland. It got far enough along that some Pixar execs came out to look at sites and speak with officials. Jackson no-showed the meeting. 

 

.... Annnnnnd back to Bibb - I'm glad that doesn't seem to be his MO. 

2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

At risk of derailing the thread and absconding my mod duties - in short, local business folks had pitched Pixar with opening a sizable operational presence in Cleveland. It got far enough along that some Pixar execs came out to look at sites and speak with officials. Jackson no-showed the meeting. 

 

.... Annnnnnd back to Bibb - I'm glad that doesn't seem to be his MO. 

Thanks for the info and I agree. I'm glad that it seems that Bibb is actually engaged!

To be "Frank," we don't hear much about Bibb these days. Not a lot in the news. 

On 7/13/2022 at 9:20 AM, Dougal said:

Bibb's proposal for spending the ARP money is disappointing.  One-time money like this should be spent on cpital investment items, not operating expenses.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/cleveland-mayor-justin-bibb-announces-broad-plans-to-spend-462-million-in-covid-relief-money.html

 

A lot of it is. The biggest category is "housing for all/inclusive recovery." I'm assuming that includes funds like the $4 million the city is contributing to help Warner & Swasey get built. I would hardly criticize the city for taking a broad based approach on how to spend the money.

On 7/30/2022 at 10:19 AM, LlamaLawyer said:

 

A lot of it is. The biggest category is "housing for all/inclusive recovery." I'm assuming that includes funds like the $4 million the city is contributing to help Warner & Swasey get built. I would hardly criticize the city for taking a broad based approach on how to spend the money.

Realistically there has to be some "bread and circuses" in the budget. It just looked like too much to me. Of course some of the plans weren't very precisely defined; maybe I'll be happier when the details come out.

 

 

Who knows what will come of this here, but I'm glad we have a mayor who is out there visibly advocating for the city and looking at opportunities. I think this is at least the third time he's been at an event in DC. How many times did Frank do that?

Bibb’s message on the new police union contract / pay raise

 

 

Mayor Bibb and Councilor McCormack town hall tonight 6pm in Ohio City

 

Walked to get coffee this afternoon from the office, and the shop had MSNBC on with Justin Bibb talking about ARPA funds while standing in front of the White House. Say what you will, but Jackson didn't advocate, nor could I imagine Kelley, for our city on the national stage like Bibb does. 

 

Looks like Mayor Bibb and Eric Kaler were both down at the Intel groundbreaking. Another example of the kind of initiative Mayor Jackson never had.

I like Bibb, but let's not act like his showing up to another region's photo op is particularly noteworthy. 

17 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I like Bibb, but let's not act like his showing up to another region's photo op is particularly noteworthy. 

 

That's how the sausage gets made. Showing up to one probably doesn't matter, but if you show up to 100 something will come out of at least a couple.

Hey, if that works, I'd love to be corrected.

On 9/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, TBideon said:

Hey, if that works, I'd love to be corrected.

 

yeah you grit your teeth at things like that, mixed feelings for sure, but showing up at things is a huge part of the mayor job. he’s repping the city at all times and needs to be seen in the places where the action is.

 

Cleveland Mayor Bibb and Downtown Cleveland Alliance CEO discuss bringing people back to Downtown

 

Mayor Bibb and Michael Deemer cover downtown recovery efforts--office-to-residential conversion, pursuing corporations relocating their headquarters--, crime, and other goings-on downtown. 

 

https://www.ideastream.org/programs/sound-of-ideas/cleveland-mayor-bibb-and-downtown-cleveland-alliance-ceo-discuss-bringing-people-back-to-downtown

He's not Frank, but my frustration with Bibb is starting to mount. 

 

Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb abruptly ends interview when pressed about resident response to leaf pickup

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/cleveland-mayor-justin-bibb-abruptly-ends-interview-when-questioned-about-leaf-pickup-upsetting-residents

There has been a lot of bad bibb press this week.  

5 minutes ago, GISguy said:

He's not Frank, but my frustration with Bibb is starting to mount. 

 

Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb abruptly ends interview when pressed about resident response to leaf pickup

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/cleveland-mayor-justin-bibb-abruptly-ends-interview-when-questioned-about-leaf-pickup-upsetting-residents

 

It has not been a good news week for Bibb... I'm hoping that's all it is, and really it's a bit surprising it hadn't happened sooner given his inexperience, but I am a bit concerned. 

17 hours ago, Luke_S said:

 

It has not been a good news week for Bibb... I'm hoping that's all it is, and really it's a bit surprising it hadn't happened sooner given his inexperience, but I am a bit concerned. 

 

The unions have turned on him, and to be honest they have a point.

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The unions have turned on him, and to be honest they have a point.

As someone who has witnessed the inefficiency of Cleveland's city unions, I'd like to see someone stand up to them.  

7 hours ago, Cleburger said:

As someone who has witnessed the inefficiency of Cleveland's city unions, I'd like to see someone stand up to them.  

 

The unions will run circles around Bibb and they know they can. I know Jackson didn't do much but at least there was a sense of respect around him. I don't see that with Bibb and he tries to act tough with something stupid like "no more leaf collection" and it totally backfires. He should have run to be in City Council or something or mayor of Maple Hts or something, but he's really not fit to be mayor of Cleveland.