November 13, 20186 yr I'm hopeful for a substantial change in activity over the next few years along Euclid. With all the projects currently under construction (CAC, Halle, Beacon, JHB, Lumen, 925, Terminal Tower, May Co.) we're looking at over 2,000 new units along the corridor between PS and 17th. I have to think that kind of density will do good things for retail.
November 13, 20186 yr Plus two new office towers, and possibly another residential tower. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 20186 yr ^ 13 minutes ago, KJP said: Plus two new office towers, and possibly another residential tower. ?
November 13, 20186 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Your talk-to-text interpreted "Schofield" as "scheduled," didn't it? Awesome! I'm surprised it got it right the first time. ? Regardless of my phone's autocorrect mishaps and me not correcting it the second time... I live on Euclid Ave and attend graduate school at CSU down the road. There's a handful of vacancies along the corridor that aren't being filled. A couple thousand new units won't necessarily resolve that issue. There's a retail vacancy trend nationwide, and was just saying that maybe JHB should look for other alternatives to their ground level space. A lot of the spaces are being marketed as large, flaship locations. Maybe instead of offering it as a large 5,000 sq space (Garfield) they could break the space up. There's a bunch of alternatives than what's being offered and I'd like to see a thriving corridor/city. JHB has about 250 ft ish of street frontage compared to about 60-70 in the Garfield. Their plans call for more than 20,000 square feet of retail. That could be workshare, offices, anything. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/6/5/whats-up-with-all-those-empty-commercial-storefronts-in-new-mixed-use-developments Edited November 13, 20186 yr by imjustinjk
November 13, 20186 yr Was walking past the building on my way to work today and noticed how fast they've cleaned up the first floor already. Excited for this to start taking shape.
November 13, 20186 yr At risk of this thread getting bogged down with another downtown retail discussion, Ohio City seems to have found the secret sauce when it come to modern urban storefront retail, including a board game parlor, a boxing/punching bag fitness center, a rock climbing wall place, etc. The usual retail suspects don't seem to work in the urban core. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 20186 yr 2 minutes ago, KJP said: At risk of this thread getting bogged down with another downtown retail discussion, Ohio City seems to have found the secret sauce when it come to modern urban storefront retail, including a board game parlor, a boxing/punching bag fitness center, a rock climbing wall place, etc. The usual retail suspects don't seem to work in the urban core. Yes, sorry for going off topic. I was just saying that I hope that JHB can be creative and lead the way. They have a seemingly larger street frontage than other projects and this, with 925, is a sore spot along Euclid. Its exciting to see the project taking off now.
November 13, 20186 yr I think this is pertinent to the topic. In order to compete, the retail at JHB will either have to be national (a mini Target type store) or unique. People living in the urban core will go out of their way to support local business, but that business has to provide something that's unique. I hope they think outside of the box here.
November 13, 20186 yr 9 minutes ago, YABO713 said: I think this is pertinent to the topic. In order to compete, the retail at JHB will either have to be national (a mini Target type store) or unique. People living in the urban core will go out of their way to support local business, but that business has to provide something that's unique. I hope they think outside of the box here. The fascination with a target downtown is interesting since there is one 10 minutes away in the Steelyard. Since there is one that close, I don't believe Target will look at Downtown Cleveland as an option due to the population. Can Cleveland support two Targets that are close to each other? Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity to insert the outlet shopping into Downtown Cleveland, 925 Euclid along with JHB, have large enough structures to insert a good amount of outlet retail. It would be unique, accessible due to various transit options including the Healthline, and would be a POSSIBLE destination to 100,000+ people daily. This is a better, more urban option to outlet shopping versus the proposal by the muni lot. Edited November 13, 20186 yr by MyPhoneDead
November 13, 20186 yr 30 minutes ago, YABO713 said: I think this is pertinent to the topic. In order to compete, the retail at JHB will either have to be national (a mini Target type store) or unique. People living in the urban core will go out of their way to support local business, but that business has to provide something that's unique. I hope they think outside of the box here. I agree with your points. I shop at Geigers, and other local stores Downtown. I think that some of these retail spaces might be too large and/or expensive for some local businesses though. 21 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: The fascination with a target downtown is interesting since there is one 10 minutes away in the Steelyard. Since there is one that close, I don't believe Target will look at Downtown Cleveland as an option due to the population. Can Cleveland support two Targets that are close to each other? Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity to insert the outlet shopping into Downtown Cleveland, 925 Euclid along with JHB, have large enough structures to insert a good amount of outlet retail. It would be unique, accessible due to various transit options including the Healthline, and would be a POSSIBLE destination to 100,000+ people daily. This is a better, more urban option to outlet shopping versus the proposal by the muni lot. I know that personally, I rarely-to-never go to Steelyard. Same with Friends. But regardless you're right. I think that a small format big box store could work in Cleveland, especially near one of the busiest intersections. The issue with Steelyard and downtown residents is that those without a car its not the most accessible. The #81 ... is a journey. There's uber/lyft or a ZipCar (I use the latter when I do head down there). Pending weather its not a terrible bike ride. However, I do most of my shopping online. I'm not sure if we can draw in national retail yet, and local retail can be risky starting a new business - especially in really expensive spaces. As a student I know that there is some missing retail needs that many campuses have, and this is pretty close to CSU. However, I'm not sure if theres enough students living close to campus yet.
November 13, 20186 yr Until lenders favor (er, actually measure) pedestrian counts and not vehicular traffic counts or parking spaces, retail along Euclid or anywhere downtown is going to be tough for mainstream retailers to consider. Heinen's and Geiger's are downtown because they care about the community, not because they predicted wonderful returns on their investments. If it was strictly a business decision, I doubt they'd be there. But someone had to add more blocks to the foundation if we're going to have more residents, offices, hotels, and more retailers, and I'm glad they did. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 14, 20186 yr 20 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: The fascination with a target downtown is interesting since there is one 10 minutes away in the Steelyard. Since there is one that close, I don't believe Target will look at Downtown Cleveland as an option due to the population. Can Cleveland support two Targets that are close to each other? Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity to insert the outlet shopping into Downtown Cleveland, 925 Euclid along with JHB, have large enough structures to insert a good amount of outlet retail. It would be unique, accessible due to various transit options including the Healthline, and would be a POSSIBLE destination to 100,000+ people daily. This is a better, more urban option to outlet shopping versus the proposal by the muni lot. Target opened one of their new mini-Targets at OSU in Columbus and there is a full line target LESS than 10 minutes away on the other side of campus at the Lennox shopping center. It's definitely possible especially with all the residential in the immediate area the downtown location would offer on top of the day time traffic. A location in this building would pull from along Euclid going west to the Terminal tower and east to CSU as well as north to 1717 and south to The 9 and the apartments along Huron and Prospect. Edited November 14, 20186 yr by Mov2Ohio
November 14, 20186 yr The reason for the Target fascination is because downtown residents have opted for a walkable lifestyle. While going to Target is easy if you live outside of downtown and have a driveway, the process is restrictive if you live downtown. For downtowners, here is what the process looks like: walking to the garage where your car is located, driving 10 min to Steelyard, loading up the car, driving 10 min back, somehow find a place to idle the car, unload the car, schlepp everything up to your apartment, go back to the car, move it back to the garage, walk back to your apartment and go upstairs. When I was living at the Schofield, even if I wanted to drive to Target (or any other store, Costco, Aldi, etc.), I couldn't because there was no loading zone for residents. Compare this with walking 5 min, grabbing a couple things, and walking 5 min back. The reason for the fascination about Target, in particular, is that you can get almost anything there, including items that people don't usually buy online (e.g. food, clothing, shoes, shampoo, cosmetics, etc.).
November 14, 20186 yr 23 hours ago, KJP said: Heinen's and Geiger's are downtown because they care about the community, not because they predicted wonderful returns on their investments. If it was strictly a business decision, I doubt they'd be there. But someone had to add more blocks to the foundation if we're going to have more residents, offices, hotels, and more retailers, and I'm glad they did. Maybe apartment landlords need to consider useful retail outlets an 'amenity' to be offered like exercise rooms, rooftop patios, etc. and provide retail space for break-even rents at least during some introductory period. By useful retail I mean drug stores, dry cleaners, groceries, etc. that support the residents. (They may already do this; I have no idea.) Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
November 14, 20186 yr 1 hour ago, Dougal said: Maybe apartment landlords need to consider useful retail outlets an 'amenity' to be offered like exercise rooms, rooftop patios, etc. and provide retail space for break-even rents at least during some introductory period. By useful retail I mean drug stores, dry cleaners, groceries, etc. that support the residents. (They may already do this; I have no idea.) That's how the Heinen's was viewed and got a reduced rent as a result.
November 14, 20186 yr 1 hour ago, Dougal said: Maybe apartment landlords need to consider useful retail outlets an 'amenity' to be offered like exercise rooms, rooftop patios, etc. and provide retail space for break-even rents at least during some introductory period. By useful retail I mean drug stores, dry cleaners, groceries, etc. that support the residents. (They may already do this; I have no idea.) The city and county should, too. I'm guessing downtown residents would rather have a Target, for example, than that new Northcoast Harbor pedestrian bridge or some of the Playhouse Square gateway elements.
November 14, 20186 yr On 11/13/2018 at 10:42 AM, KJP said: At risk of this thread getting bogged down with another downtown retail discussion, Ohio City seems to have found the secret sauce when it come to modern urban storefront retail, including a board game parlor, a boxing/punching bag fitness center, a rock climbing wall place, etc. The usual retail suspects don't seem to work in the urban core. Ohio City probably has cheaper rent though. How do we attract tenants when downtown commercial rent is higher, but the foot traffic is still low?
November 14, 20186 yr ^Unless someone has numbers that contradict my opinion... the foot traffic on Euclid between 9th and 12th is NOT low. There is an almost constant flow of people - especially in the summer.
November 15, 20186 yr 5 hours ago, YABO713 said: ^Unless someone has numbers that contradict my opinion... the foot traffic on Euclid between 9th and 12th is NOT low. There is an almost constant flow of people - especially in the summer. Can confirm - I work on e13th and Euclid and it's pretty constant, even during the non-rush hour times that I commute to work.
November 19, 20186 yr Euclid Grand update. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/renovation-euclid-ave-between-east-4th-and-playhouse-square
November 20, 20186 yr 5 hours ago, simplythis said: Euclid Grand update. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/renovation-euclid-ave-between-east-4th-and-playhouse-square I'm really starting to like this guy, Sabracos.
November 20, 20186 yr On 11/13/2018 at 11:51 AM, imjustinjk said: I agree with your points. I shop at Geigers, and other local stores Downtown. I think that some of these retail spaces might be too large and/or expensive for some local businesses though. I know that personally, I rarely-to-never go to Steelyard. Same with Friends. But regardless you're right. I think that a small format big box store could work in Cleveland, especially near one of the busiest intersections. The issue with Steelyard and downtown residents is that those without a car its not the most accessible. The #81 ... is a journey. There's uber/lyft or a ZipCar (I use the latter when I do head down there). Pending weather its not a terrible bike ride. However, I do most of my shopping online. I'm not sure if we can draw in national retail yet, and local retail can be risky starting a new business - especially in really expensive spaces. As a student I know that there is some missing retail needs that many campuses have, and this is pretty close to CSU. However, I'm not sure if theres enough students living close to campus yet. The lower floors of the former Carson Pierre Scott flagship store in downtown Chicago are now a Target and a DSW. The Target, in the heart of commercial downtown Chicago, seems to be doing fine. Within a few blocks are the huge Macy's (formerly Marshall Fields), the Nordstrom Rack, etc. I think the fact there's a Target in Steelyard Commons would make very little difference. A Target at 925 would do just fine, with significant security, of course.
November 20, 20186 yr 16 minutes ago, lafont said: A Target at 925 would do just fine, with significant security, of course. FWIW, when Heinen's first opened they had full-time security at the door facing 925 where someone can go from the upstairs beer & wine section straight out onto Euclid without paying. They were, quite rightly, worried about stealing. Within no more than a couple of months they'd removed the security person from that post as it simply wasn't necessary. I know Target ain't Heinen's and is likely to draw a much wider customer base, but I don't feel this Target would need more than the security guard on the door that I see in all Target's no matter where they are. Edited November 20, 20186 yr by roman totale XVII My hovercraft is full of eels
November 20, 20186 yr On 11/13/2018 at 9:46 AM, KJP said: Plus two new office towers, and possibly another residential tower. ? KJP ... Are you referring to nuCLEus?
November 21, 20186 yr I can't wait for the day (soon) when we will be complaining about all the out of town developers carpetbagging into Cleveland!
December 19, 20186 yr 4 minutes ago, simplythis said: Does anyone working downtown have any recent photos of Euclid Grand? I can grab some on my way home - not much has changed since the last exterior shots, though.
December 19, 20186 yr 1 hour ago, simplythis said: Does anyone working downtown have any recent photos of Euclid Grand? Not much has changed yet. They're still cleaning up the rotten interior.
December 19, 20186 yr ^That entire stretch of buildings is going through some type of investment now including Statler. Great to see!
December 20, 20186 yr There should be an event for when that black "modernization" facade is removed from the far eastern portion. Is that the last example of that type of cover-up downtown?
December 20, 20186 yr 4 minutes ago, PoshSteve said: There should be an event for when that black "modernization" facade is removed from the far eastern portion. Is that the last example of that type of cover-up downtown? That and the Stark HQ in the WHD.
December 20, 20186 yr I don't think there's an actual historic building behind that one. If you dig through the early pages of this thread you can find more info, but it was added later.
February 9, 20196 yr Update pics Edited February 9, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 11, 20196 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 11, 20196 yr Hopefully they'll clear the snow more often than they did when the sidewalk was still accessible.
February 11, 20196 yr Sure wish the Athletic Club would have done the same. Everyone who lives in PHS must walk in the street around the barricades to get to and from Heinen’s.
February 11, 20196 yr 36 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said: Sure wish the Athletic Club would have done the same. Everyone who lives in PHS must walk in the street around the barricades to get to and from Heinen’s. Yeah and I'm one of those! The Athletic Club development has been a pedestrian nightmare.
February 14, 20196 yr The Euclid Grand is going before the CPC for final approval. We've seen most of the pics before, but a couple of the angles look new. More at the CPC website: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/02152019/index.php
February 14, 20196 yr Took some pics on lunch break of the rear of the bldg. Got a couple interior shots of the gutted inside and having never walked through that parking garage, it's interesting how they extended architectural design to the walls of the entrance Edited February 14, 20196 yr by GISguy
February 14, 20196 yr Now THAT is why I love Urban Ohio!! Guerrilla sleuthing of the highest order! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 14, 20196 yr Great shots! I love how the rear still reflects the original early modern facade, not the second facade that's being restored now. Note, those architectural details in the last shot were actually built for a theater lobby (iirc). It wasn't turned into a garage entrance till later.
February 14, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, StapHanger said: Great shots! I love how the rear still reflects the original early modern facade, not the second facade that's being restored now. Note, those architectural details in the last shot were actually built for a theater lobby (iirc). It wasn't turned into a garage entrance till later. That makes a LOT more sense, I was thinking it may have had something to do with the Statler being there too, gotta have a fancy garage for fancy guests. Without looking on Cleveland Historical, do you know when the theater was taken out/was it (I'm assuming) replaced with the garage? And thanks for the compliment! Edited February 14, 20196 yr by GISguy
February 14, 20196 yr ^Here's a little bit of info: https://case.edu/ech/articles/s/stillman-theater. Looks like the theater shut down in 1963.
February 14, 20196 yr 7 minutes ago, StapHanger said: ^Here's a little bit of info: https://case.edu/ech/articles/s/stillman-theater. Looks like the theater shut down in 1963. Thanks, without going too off topic, here's the theater entrance and source (went on Cleveland Historical after all haha)
February 14, 20196 yr I'm so excited about this project. It might just be my favorite. This is a HUGE missing link along Euclid that will drastically change the atmosphere once it's finished.
Create an account or sign in to comment