8 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

not to rain on the parade, and its great there is new blood and that they have plans, but other than sports teams, do these minority owners have any experience with real estate developments? i don't see any. especially in regard to this major ballpark village developments kind of thing. they would need other partners, no?

Have you read @KJP blog article?

^ oh right i was distracted at work haha. gilbert is building and these guys are running the entertainment or something. a partnership. ok good that brings in more loot and know how. downtown detroit is on fire with projects, so that is encouraging.

Also keep in mind that Blitzer is a senior executive at one of the largest commercial property owners in the world.  So I wouldn't worry about experience.

If its bigger than the renderings, with office space and residential components it would roughly push the architect to build around the same height as NuCleus and SHW. But in all seriousness I just want something to beat out Erieview already, granted SHW is already doing just that, but 2 towers to surpass the already 4th tallest building in the city is indeed a development boom. I'm very glad that we're seeing two major sports corporations just playing with money. If anyone has seen the renderings of the Oakland A's stadium mega-plex, this is the idea that's very well about to happen, although not on a grandiose scale, but a very major economic one. If I were a betting man Blitzer & Gilbert's complex gets built before Haslam's vision by a longshot.

Soooooo about that gateway project.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

9 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Soooooo about that gateway project.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

 

I'll have another article later this week.

So has this been in the works and under wraps for a while?  Will we be seeing construction related activity soon?

1 hour ago, B767PILOT said:

So has this been in the works and under wraps for a while?  Will we be seeing construction related activity soon?

 

Yes. Been in the works for nearly a year.

 

No. Might take up to 1.5 years for a groundbreaking after the sale closes. I don't know when it will close. I'm told only that it's imminent.

 

Sherwin-Williams acquired the Superblock in March 2020. The project was slowed for six months by the pandemic. Construction started at the end of November 2021. Subtracting the 6 months, that's 14 months from property acquisition to shovels in the ground and 15 months to a formal groundbreaking. So 16-18 months is probably a better schedule because HQ work didn't stop April-September 2020. It continued but at a much slower pace.

Well, maybe they can at least put up some world-class signage prior to construction.

That's a long time for us development nerds but then again the timeline does dovetail nicely with the finishing of City Club and SHW. Nothing like continuous construction to quiet the herd.

2 hours ago, cadmen said:

Nothing like continuous construction to quiet the herd.

 

Agreed. I'd love to just see constant construction happening around town instead of just waves of it and quiet periods in between. Always nice to see signs of growth!

After the kinds of delays or no starts we’ve experienced with Stark’ and even SW when you consider the anticipation over the last few years, I’d gladly sign now for a year and a half till groundbreaking on the Gateway project. 
 

The only building that seemed to go from announcement to completion quickly was The Lumen.  Not complaining, just saying. 
 

And as @cadmenpointed out, we’ve got a couple things to keep us occupied  the next year or two.  Not that we don’t want more of course! 

24 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

After the kinds of delays or no starts we’ve experienced with Stark’ and even SW when you consider the anticipation over the last few years, I’d gladly sign now for a year and a half till groundbreaking on the Gateway project. 
 

The only building that seemed to go from announcement to completion quickly was The Lumen.  Not complaining, just saying. 
 

And as @cadmenpointed out, we’ve got a couple things to keep us occupied  the next year or two.  Not that we don’t want more of course! 

And even Lumen was being discussed behind the scenes as far back as 2015.. three years before construction started.

And even the 16-18 months assumes a best-case scenario with no glitches like a pandemic or recession or international event.

three years or so from planning to movement is not at all unusual. we have to have patience!

But maybe Bedrock moves a bit faster.

22 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

But maybe Bedrock moves a bit faster.

If anything they move slower if the Hudson tower in Detroit is any indication.  And secretive

I wonder if Bedrock has anything approaching the scale of their HUDson Tower in Detroit in mind for Cleveland. 
 

Even if you cut that project’s height down by 20% it would still yield a 540 foot tower at Gateway, which would edge out Erieview for 5th tallest in the city at that point.  
 

I could wait a few years for that. 

Everybody always mentions St. Louis when referencing a Ballpark Village. But how about we show some love for what Cincy has done with The Banks. Couldn't this qualify as a Ballpark Village as much as a waterfront development?

^  Forgive me, I haven't been to Cincy in years...but is that bottom picture a finished product or is that a future plan?

 

6 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

^  Forgive me, I haven't been to Cincy in years...but is that bottom picture a finished product or is that a future plan?

 

 

I'm almost positive it is a finished product. Maybe some smaller developments will pop up in the future but that is what it currently looks like.

4 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

^  Forgive me, I haven't been to Cincy in years...but is that bottom picture a finished product or is that a future plan?

 

Yeah I visited a couple years ago, that is the final product. 

On 1/20/2022 at 2:02 PM, cfdwarrior said:

^  Forgive me, I haven't been to Cincy in years...but is that bottom picture a finished product or is that a future plan?

 

No, it's a render. The bottom half of the picture is fairly accurate, but there are still some large lots down by Paul Brown Stadium that are still undeveloped. 

 

This is a fairly recent picture, as in it has the Icon music center in it (gray box by PBS), which opened summer 2021

 

Thanks, as always, @Geowizical!

 

 

Downtown Gateway megaproject coming to light
By Ken Prendergast / January 21, 2022

 

Although the now-dead nuCLEus plan enticed us with its promise of a large-scale project for seven years, there are growing indications that a potential megaproject in downtown Cleveland’s Gateway District could be even larger. And hopefully it won’t tease Clevelanders for as long only to reach an unsatisfactory conclusion.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/01/21/downtown-gateway-megaproject-coming-to-light/

KJP - Wow Great Story. Two buildings in the Bedrock portion.  When can we expect an announcement from Bedrock? When do you think

this sale will close

Is the historic building near the SW corner of Prospect and E 4th also being sold to Bedrock, or is Stark retaining that to renovate himself as was his original plan? 

Great article, @KJP! 
 

The idea of Benesch saying to Stark “promise you’ll always use us as counsel or we won’t rent your building” is very gross and I hope that’s not true.

9 hours ago, simplythis said:

KJP - Wow Great Story. Two buildings in the Bedrock portion.  When can we expect an announcement from Bedrock? When do you think

this sale will close

 

I would think the NBA All Star Game would be an ideal time for an announcement. 

1 hour ago, mas1092 said:

Is the historic building near the SW corner of Prospect and E 4th also being sold to Bedrock, or is Stark retaining that to renovate himself as was his original plan? 

I am worried about this building as well but I can guarantee you Stark has no interest in renovating the building.  The company fought tooth and nail a couple of years ago to tear it down arguing at length that it was not economically feasible to renovate it.  They lost that battle at the time but I am sure all that has happen in the mean time is that the building has deteriorated further.

3 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I am worried about this building as well but I can guarantee you Stark has no interest in renovating the building.  The company fought tooth and nail a couple of years ago to tear it down arguing at length that it was not economically feasible to renovate it.  They lost that battle at the time but I am sure all that has happen in the mean time is that the building has deteriorated further.

To think Stark would have demolished that building just to create another parking crater, and it would have been all for nothing. 

@KJP given all the information you gleam from your sources in such early times I can only imagine you have them locked and chained in you basement.  I hope you are feeding them well.  I thought one of the most telling aspects of your reaching out to the various entities was the Bedrock's spokesperson saying that if they had any news on any development to share they would let you know.  This rather than an outright denial.

Edited January 22, 20223 yr by Htsguy

That's the key. Nobody's denying it except for Ezra Stark and I know for a fact that he's lying.

2 hours ago, mas1092 said:

Is the historic building near the SW corner of Prospect and E 4th also being sold to Bedrock, or is Stark retaining that to renovate himself as was his original plan? 

 

I haven't heard. It's owned outright by Stark and isn't part of the Gateway Huron LLC joint venture with J-Dek. In talking with sources, some have speculated that Stark might renovate the Herold Building, 310 Prospect, for its own offices and give it more visibility. But it's only 16,000 square feet. Stark has 28,000 square feet for its current offices at 629 Euclid. They could build an addition next door, 320 Prospect, on the parking lot right at the intersection. But that's part of Gateway Huron and it's one of the parcels that had a certificate of disclosure requested for it, so it's definitely in play. But for what? 

@KJP do you think Starks inability to get his dream project done only to watch others succeed will cause him to go dark/‘crawl into a hole’? Or motivate him even more to finally get his flagship project?

21 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

@KJP do you think Starks inability to get his dream project done only to watch others succeed will cause him to go dark/‘crawl into a hole’? Or motivate him even more to finally get his flagship project?

You’re assuming Stark couldn’t make it work. He didn’t even try to apply for a TMUD. That makes me strongly suspect that he never gave up on NuCLEus—he just got an offer he couldn’t refuse.

We are used to Megaprojects being  announced with great fanfare in Cleveland only to quietly disappear over time. To me the most hopeful news, aside from the project itself, is that the people behind it are heavy hitters. And they have a track record of getting things done. 

 

While Ken's article is focused on real estate those of us who care about the future of the baseball team can take solace in knowing that the organization behind the Baseball Village is on track to become first a needed minority owner and ultimately the majority owner of the team. The Dolan family have been wonderful owners but they don't seem to be able to financially compete with the other owners to our detriment. The (probable) new owners appear to have deeper pockets and if the Ballpark Village is any indication, they have the willingness to spend too. Here's hoping for a more vibrant neighborhood outside the stadium and a more competitive team inside the stadium.

 

 

55 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

@KJP do you think Starks inability to get his dream project done only to watch others succeed will cause him to go dark/‘crawl into a hole’? Or motivate him even more to finally get his flagship project?

 

They don't get emotionally involved in projects, certainly not as much as we do. They are driven by the competition, the game and winnings -- including getting a big return. Sure, seeing a big building they build pumps up the ego. But are driven more by a return on investment, regardless of whether it's something you can take a picture of or not. I'm told they are overjoyed at the amount of money they are going to be paid for this property. They are not sad at all.

 

32 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

You’re assuming Stark couldn’t make it work. He didn’t even try to apply for a TMUD. That makes me strongly suspect that he never gave up on NuCLEus—he just got an offer he couldn’t refuse.

 

Absolutely. Given the time frame of events, this deal has been in the works for nearly a year. I say that because of the Toronto-based geotech firm that was supposed to start investigating a new building on Bedrock's riverfront property at this time last year but was told to wait multiple times until spring when they were told to stand down. It was probably around that time that Bedrock then considered its riverfront property the long-term play and the Gateway site the short-term play.

4 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Great article, @KJP! 
 

The idea of Benesch saying to Stark “promise you’ll always use us as counsel or we won’t rent your building” is very gross and I hope that’s not true.

 

Having worked with Benesch in the distant past, I have no comment. 

You are absolutely correct when you say that we here on Urban Ohio get emotionally involved in a project and we

get disappointed whereas the developers look for a return on investment

Could Gilbert buy the original Nucleus designs from Stark as part of the deal?

36 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

Could Gilbert buy the original Nucleus designs from Stark as part of the deal?

 

He could but isn't. 

Great article as always, thanks @KJP.

 

If the office tower is supposed to hold quicken loans mortgage folks and benesch and with room to grow, it be nice if they added some speculative space as well, so add say, 20-25 floors as the market always welcomes new modern space which we haven't had since the E&Y tower many years ago. Under this approach, it would be 50-55 stories sitting atop 8 stories of parking, for a 58-63-story bldg. In that way, it will be a height improvement over the Stark concept that got everyone excited. The two-25 story bldgs didn't do much---it was the tall tower that caught everyone's attention in Stark's initial plans.

This all sounds too similar to Bedrock's Hudson project in Detroit to be a coincidence.  Go to the website below and see the development stacking plan.  ShoP Architects designed the Hudson project as well as the RoMoFiHo renovation too, so perhaps Hudson 2.0 is coming to Cleveland?  Wouldn't that be sweet?

 

https://www.hudsonssitedetroit.com/

 

Coming soon to a Gateway site near you...(I wish)

Hudson Site Project, Detroit, MI  Designed by ShoP Architects

^ That looks better than the Jenga tower that was originally proposed.

That's a good looking project. That Detroit tower is 685’-4”tall--at 15' per story, that's 46 stories. That (or something a little taller) would be very cool for the city.

 

I absolutely HATED draft 2 and/or 3 of Stark's plan where the tall (and wide) building was not flush or parallel with Prospect, but instead at some strange angle, thereby killing the street wall and full urban effect. It wasn't lined up to Huron either--just outright ugly. This was it:

  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Pugu said:

That's a good looking project. That Detroit tower is 685’-4”tall--at 15' per story, that's 46 stories. That (or something a little taller) would be very cool for the city.

 

I absolutely HATED draft 2 and/or 3 of Stark's plan where the tall (and wide) building was not flush or parallel with Prospect, but instead at some strange angle, thereby killing the street wall and full urban effect. It wasn't lined up to Huron either--just outright ugly. This was it:

  

 

 

 

 

Wasn't there a E 4th pedestrian laneway that was adjacent to the screened parking garage? Curious how that might be better executed if a part of this development (a pedestrian extension to E4 to flow into and better connect the core of Downtown with the RoMoFiHo)

Edited January 24, 20223 yr by infrafreak

5 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

^ That looks better than the Jenga tower that was originally proposed.

I liked the Jenga Tower.  It was different.  Clad in the right material it could have made a real statement