With deference to @Clefan98 who was first to post this news in the Filling In Euclid Ave thread at:

This project appears to have been in development by a major player for months. It deserves its own thread.

 

Some background, starting with this news and compelling quote from early summer that shows the Cleveland development isn't as sudden as it may have seemed at first:

 

“We appreciate and respect the city of St. Louis and its leadership, but have made the decision to focus the growth of our portfolio on other Midwest and East Coast markets,” said Jonathan Holtzman, chief executive officer of City Club Apartments. “We have a responsibility to our investors, lenders and partners to perform at the highest level and we are reallocating our financial and human capital to several accelerating markets including Cleveland.”

 

 

So now....

 

 

So excited to see renderings of the new building. Expecting it to be around 20 floors, but hopefully it's more.

Expect greater height than the Beacon in the renderings. Everything I've researched on this developer says they're in this for a home run, not a base hit. 

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Expect greater height than the Beacon in the renderings. Everything I've researched on this developer says they're in this for a home run, not a base hit. 

I hope this is true.. A 400+ foot building would fit in so nicely there.

If I'm being super-picky, it's a shame that it's only the Euclid side and not Prospect too, but I'm really excited for this as I hate that parking lot with a passion.

Exciting news for sure. I think the 17 story Minneapolis building is probably similar to what we'll get. I hope they find a better architect though.

2 minutes ago, Mendo said:

Exciting news for sure. I think the 17 story Minneapolis building is probably similar to what we'll get. I hope they find a better architect though.

Hey, I'll take anything to fill in that gap. It'll make Euclid feel complete. Can't wait to see these renderings!!!

This developer uses BKV Group exclusively as its architect. And looking at the websites for BKV and City Club Apartments, I think you're right @Mendo that we may get something in the 10- to 20-story range. If so, "high-rise" applies but "skyscraper" doesn't, at least not in my prejudicial thinking. 

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

This developer uses BKV Group exclusively as its architect. And looking at the websites for BKV and City Club Apartments, I think you're right @Mendo that we may get something in the 10- to 20-story range. If so, "high-rise" applies but "skyscraper" doesn't, at least not in my prejudicial thinking. 

The main thing that's keeping me hopeful that it's going to be 20+ stories is that the lot is pretty small. If they want a few hundred apartments, it'll have to be at least 20 stories.. (Unless they do micro units or something). Or maybe even destroy the parking garage and build a wider, less tall building all the way to prospect?

^ I don't think a developer would demolish the parking garage because they are expensive to build.  

The article stated that the developer was only interested in the Euclid side for now. That's ok though because we are likely to get a taller building with the small footprint. Also, as already stated, The cost would be prohibitive to build on the site all at once. Probably even more than Nucleus when you factor in demoing a garage. I like that we are filling in these smaller lots. They are more realistic developments that are happening organically. The mega projects for the WHD lots and Nucleus are wayyyyy harder to finance and justify without smaller projects like these to test the market first. Plus, I am willing to bet that if this tower leases well, the developer will more than likely move right over to the Prospect side for phase 2.

Something I was reading about this developer is how he tries to make the numbers work for high-quality projects. For example, he was able to find a 29-story building in Louisville to convert to housing and offer the kinds of amenities that a new building might offer in Chicago, yet still offer competitive rents for Louisville (ie: half the rent per sf of Chicago). Cleveland rents are between Louisville's and Chicago's, and yet Holtzman wants a new building here. How can he make it work?

 

My guess is he won't construct any new parking. Instead, as part of building on the 720 GSK-owned property, I think he will lease a block of parking spaces in the existing deck for tenants. In that regard, this site is almost as good for a new apartment building as 515 Euclid. The property owner not only owns the vacant lot for development but also the parking garage. So the cost of construction drops by about $30,000 per housing unit by not having to construct parking.

 

And I don't think this will be merely housing. Sure, Holtzman says it will be mixed use. But what mixed use? Merely retail/restaurants on the ground floor or maybe something else?

 

Consider that in his Cincinnati and Farmington Hills developments, he included "Class A Creative Office Space" as part of the mixed use. Considering Cleveland's "flight to quality" among office tenants and the shortage of Class A space, I wouldn't be surprised to see it added here too.

 

And yes, I expect that this could be a phase 1, with the Prospect side being phase 2. That might mean reserving a larger block of parking spaces in the deck -- unless Medical Mutual grabs a block of spaces first to ensure its HQ employees have enough parking.

 

Edited November 26, 20186 yr by KJP

 

19 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

The article stated that the developer was only interested in the Euclid side for now. That's ok though because we are likely to get a taller building with the small footprint. Also, as already stated, The cost would be prohibitive to build on the site all at once. Probably even more than Nucleus when you factor in demoing a garage. I like that we are filling in these smaller lots. They are more realistic developments that are happening organically. The mega projects for the WHD lots and Nucleus are wayyyyy harder to finance and justify without smaller projects like these to test the market first. Plus, I am willing to bet that if this tower leases well, the developer will more than likely move right over to the Prospect side for phase 2.

 

Interesting tidbit -- the floorplates for The Beacon are about 16,200 sf. The parking lot on the Euclid side measures about 22,000 sf. BTW, the parking lot on the Prospect side is about 28,000 sf.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I hope at least a few floors are condo units.  Does this developer, in "mixed use" mix up residential itself with some rental and some for-sale units?

The West Loop neighborhood in Chicago has had some excellent success with that model @Pugu

 

My cousin's building has 300 units, started as 100 condos / 200 apartments, with the developer maintaining the HOA seats (1 vote for every 2 rental units vs. 1 vote per unit in owner-occupied). The Developer has gradually released units to the HOA to sell as it recoups its money back, and the development (built in 2010) now is closer to 175 condos to 125 apartments.

I wonder how close they are to acquiring the parking lot parcel.

Would he acquire the land or lease it?

I hope there will be no garage access/egress from Euclid, only Prospect.

Or the alley East 8th, as there is now.

There is currently garage access to Euclid and to Prospect.

Can we rename this thread to reference the "Hippodrome site," not City Club as it could be confused with the building next door?

I was expecting that confusion. I named it "City Club Apartments" because that's the name of the company pursuing this project. If this gets built, some may continue to confuse the City Club office building and the City Club Apartments.

If they build up both sides (in the long run), could the garage be retrofitted/built taller? Not saying that it’s necessary, nor am I a proponent of parking. I just have friends that live in apartments in this area. There’s a bit of run around for garage parking between the apartment conversions who don’t have dedicated parking. I hate walking past this lot and garage. They’re so ugly. Not sure which is worse... this or the whole in the ground next to the Union Club. 

It seems typical for the City Club Apartment projects to have close to 300 units - and the Minneapolis building looks to have a much bigger footprint than the Euclid site - while still being 17 stories high. The Euclid address would probably require significantly more height to get close to the 300 unit mark - assuming that size project.  I believe The Beacon has 187 units in its apartment tower, which is 19-20 stories (on top of its garage).  So, if It happens, We could easily have another twenty-some story  tower on the block. City Club Apartments seem to generally  be mixed use projects - but that could  mean just a restaurant on the street level.  

Yes if you base the amount of units off of their past projects and include some mixed use into this project you are easily looking at a 21-28 story tower if not a few stories taller. 

Based on my ear to the ground gathering... people in city government have already seen the renderings - and I've heard it will be an unusual building for Downtown simply by the fact that it will include balconies.

For those who have access to the renderings, please take a picture of them on a cell phone or save them to a stick, go to a free hotspot or a library, and e-mail them to me at [email protected]. I will not reveal you in any way. But I do thank you in advance!

15 minutes ago, Icarus86 said:

Based on my ear to the ground gathering... people in city government have already seen the renderings - and I've heard it will be an unusual building for Downtown simply by the fact that it will include balconies.

 

Did they give you any hints or insight regarding the height of the building?

Edited November 27, 20186 yr by Clefan98

If this project is indeed around 300 units, we'll be looking at a 30+ story building. The site it too small to contain that many apartments under 30 stories. (Unless they're micro units)

Hence why we might be looking at another Lumen-sized building.

Beacon tower is about 307,800 sf. That's an average of 1,645 sf per unit. If City Club wants 300 units and 1,645 +/- sf per unit is what they have in mind for its development, that's about 493,500 sf. Dividing that by 22,000 sf (the approximate area of development on the Euclid side), then we're looking at 22-23 floors. Ground-floor retail/lobby adds a level. "Class A Creative Office Space" which they've added to recent developments could add a couple more floors. I wonder if they will add parking. If they add 300 spaces, that's another 4-5 levels.

Edited November 27, 20186 yr by KJP

LOL

 

5 hours ago, KJP said:

Beacon tower is about 307,800 sf. That's an average of 1,645 sf per unit. If City Club wants 300 units and 1,645 +/- sf per unit is what they have in mind for its development, that's about 493,500 sf. Dividing that by 22,000 sf (the approximate area of development on the Euclid side), then we're looking at 22-23 floors. Ground-floor retail/lobby adds a level. "Class A Creative Office Space" which they've added to recent developments could add a couple more floors. I wonder if they will add parking. If they add 300 spaces, that's another 4-5 levels.

r/theydidthemath

SHARE THE DETAILS MARIE

We may even see an acceleration with the Ohio Bill giving transformational tax credits if they decide to add a few entertainment/office mixed uses.

Does CCA dip their hands in mixed use? If so this would be a great opportunity to build a slender yet extravagant scraper.

I'm kind of at a crossroads here, because when I search 720 Euclid Ave it shows up on the Prospect side, so is this a single parcel or not? If it is a single parcel this project could be way bigger than anticipated. CCA could encompass the garage like a cocoon if they wanted, and we may see new development on the prospect side of things as well. That's 86,000 square feet!!!
So it would make sense that we could see Jacob's lot scale buildings.

 

Edited November 28, 20186 yr by tastybunns

The article said they were specifically only looking at the Euclid side

The 720 Euclid parcel used to be two or three parcels but it looks like the owner requested that it be combined into one. It remains to be seen whether City Club Apartments acquires some or all of the parcel, or they reach a long-term lease or development partnership with GSK 720 Euclid LLC.

This great to see! Looking forward to the renders. 

So wait... you're telling me just the Euclid side of that parcel has a larger SqFt footprint than the Beacon? @KJP

Yes, the Euclid side footprint is larger than the Beacon's atop the 515 Euclid garage. And the surface lot on the Prospect side of 720 Euclid has a larger footprint than the one on the Euclid side.

This came out of nowhere! I agree that their architecture is not the best but it is better than a parking lot.

The only CCA building I enjoy the architecture of is their Ann Arbor midrise

Edited November 29, 20186 yr by Boxtruffles

There is some activity on this site today. It looks like it could be soil testing? I got a photo, but it’s not very helpful. The parking lot is closed on the Euclid side and there are multiple machines working. 

I was at the site earlier. It's for a parking lot resurfacing. 

Well, wishful thinking I guess. 

Why the vertical, drill-like apparatus on those trucks? But if they're repaving, that's not a good sign for the apartment building.

Would permits be required for a phase 1 or phase 2? 

I drove by there today as well and saw multiple trucks with drilling equipment. I doubt they are repaving the parking lot with that type of machinery there. They are obviously doing soil samples for building not a new parking lot. 

^^Nope.

1 minute ago, StapHanger said:

^^Nope.

Nope What?