Wouldn’t it make sense to integrate an arena into any expansion? The coliseum is 30 years past it’s prime and that would give us the ability to host most any convention or events. Build it out to the west of the convention center and utilize currently unused space. The spaghetti could be condensed with the new BSB project. 

I've been hearing rumors that a different group is planning to propose a new arena elsewhere in the urban core. I also don't think that the county has the appetite to take on the financial burden of a new arena, especially given that the Bengals will probably be asking for major stadium upgrades in a few years too.

27 minutes ago, taestell said:

I've been hearing rumors that a different group is planning to propose a new arena elsewhere in the urban core. I also don't think that the county has the appetite to take on the financial burden of a new arena, especially given that the Bengals will probably be asking for major stadium upgrades in a few years too.

When you say Urban Core, do you mean Ohio side or does that include Kentucky?

1 hour ago, taestell said:

I've been hearing rumors that a different group is planning to propose a new arena elsewhere in the urban core. I also don't think that the county has the appetite to take on the financial burden of a new arena, especially given that the Bengals will probably be asking for major stadium upgrades in a few years too.

Sounds interesting. As much as I love new things I’m not in favor of a new arena at the moment especially with no major tenant being available and more pressing issues like the convention center and hotel along with a PBS renovation and lease extension. If a private developer or Kentucky wants to do it have at it!

59 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

When you say Urban Core, do you mean Ohio side or does that include Kentucky?

Side note to my other post. I very seriously doubt NKY/KY could finance a tenantless 400+ million dollar arena. Concerts/Events alone wouldn’t work. But that’s for another thread.

I have no inside info, just rumor mill stuff, but I've heard that FC Cincinnati (the business entity / development company led by Berding and Lindner, not exactly the soccer team) want to find a way to create a new arena in the proximity of the new soccer stadium.

 

I have no clue where it could be wedged in there (north of Liberty? between TQL and Liberty? The WVXU/CET building? I have no clue), so take the rumor for what it is.

 

I'm very skeptical this can happen, but who knows.

37 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I have no inside info, just rumor mill stuff, but I've heard that FC Cincinnati (the business entity / development company led by Berding and Lindner, not exactly the soccer team) want to find a way to create a new arena in the proximity of the new soccer stadium.

 

I have no clue where it could be wedged in there (north of Liberty? between TQL and Liberty? The WVXU/CET building? I have no clue), so take the rumor for what it is.

 

I'm very skeptical this can happen, but who knows.

 

What really could be an opportunity for the "urban core" would be an arena  just north of liberty and east of Linn Street.  Cincinnati needs to view the urban core as the river to the south, the highways to the east and west and Mcmicken to the north until it merges into liberty by Pendleton area.  That is our core and we should do everything we can to  spur growth, development, density, residential, commercial, entertainment in all areas.  We cannot neglect the west end.  We should use the stadium and a potential new arena as catalysts for that area.

 

I actually really like what they have done south of liberty in west end and I think north of liberty has so much potential with historic Dayton street area.  Those streets are prime for town homes and condos with Linn as a flagship, tree lines/median boulevard.   An area right on the east side of linn would be perfect.  

 

I would also remove all industrial zones and developments from the urban core.  Move some of those businesses to the lower price hill and other industrial areas just west of 75.  I really think we should use the borders I described above not as a hindrance but as an asset to clearly define our core and make it the best it can be the way Manhattan has done it with its natural borders. 

This fell apart for me when you asserted that the Highways should be the boundaries of the Urban Core. Not enough blood and guts in that idea.

9 hours ago, 646empire said:

Side note to my other post. I very seriously doubt NKY/KY could finance a tenantless 400+ million dollar arena. Concerts/Events alone wouldn’t work. But that’s for another thread.

It would have to be a public/private thing and cant see a public component without the convention center aspect. Cant see a standalone arena without a permanent tenant either private or public. Combined with Convention center gives space for large arena gatherings and can be used for non-sports related events (like Indy uses LucasOil sometimes). But outside of major concerts, NCAA Tourneys, Conference BBall Tourney's, maybe a preseason NBA game what other events would be able to fill it up at a premium rate? 

You also would need to figure that any new arena downtown would still compete with Heritage Bank arena on the concert front & minor league sports just like Heritage Bank used to compete with Cincinnati Gardens. Smaller/lower budget arena concerts may prefer the old arena because of cost, same with minor league sports like the Cyclones.

Therefore, that leaves the Convention center site in Cincy or the one in Covington which happens to border the IRS site for an arena (not to get too far off topic). 

New arena locations in city core.. north of Liberty, Casino (2 locations), Central Parkway at the bend

15 hours ago, RJohnson said:

New arena locations in city core.. north of Liberty, Casino (2 locations), Central Parkway at the bend

 

 

 

I think the Town Center Garage / Freestore blocks might be more likely than the Charles Substation block.

 

If money was included to build a new police HQ elsewhere downtown, an arena development could effectively span from Charles all the way up to TQL Stadium. The two could share parking garages and other amenities in the space between.

 

My gut tells me a new police headquarters building would be cheaper than relocating the Charles Substation, especially if you wanted to relocate it somewhere that wasn't in the immediate vicinity.

A blue and orange Cincinnati Royals team playing b-ball on Central Parkway perhaps?

I split this topic from the Convention Center discussion. I decided to keep it separate from the US Bank Arena / Heritage Bank Center discussion since this is all speculation and not tied directly to the Coliseum site. Any discussion of the Coliseum itself can be held there.

Putting a new arena in the West End is a terrible idea, especially north of Liberty. We want less auto traffic on Linn and Liberty, not more, and a new arena would do that for the foreseeable future. We also want more housing in that area, and an arena is going to take a significant chunk of land that would be real useful as more housing. If a new arena is to be built in the downtown basin, it needs to go in a spot that will not be used as housing any time soon, and can absorb the flood of people for the events.

 

The best location that avoids post-event traffic snarls, and is really unlikely to be turned into housing, is the parking lot north of the casino's garage. It's right by the highway, with Reading and Gilbert already overbuilt, so the vehicle capacity already exists. Reading is a great opportunity for streetcar expansion or a BRT route, so the traffic can be offset long-term. That is also true of Gilbert, though that side will probably have all the delivery bays. Since Gilbert is so far below Reading, they could bury some parking below the arena too. This could also create the incentive for a larger Hard Rock Hotel, or some other development at the Greyhound site, which gets you a direct connection from the casino to the arena for high rollers. Pendleton would probably hate this idea but with the addition of enough extra parking spots, they might come around to it. This could also be an opportunity to right-size that section of Reading, allowing the arena to have retail space on that side, which could serve as a pre/post-game entertainment, as well as more entrances for events. This way, people in downtown, would actually want to bike or walk to it for events.

17 hours ago, RJohnson said:

 

This is the "warmest" of the three you posted, based on what I have heard.

I cant see an arena going in the West End. It would make most sense by the convention center as part of an expansion there but I dont think they have the room in that area to build it there.  Riverfront would work, but without a major tenant in the building the finances do not work out as well. At least as part of the convention center project you can get better/more use out of it through convention needs. 

 

The other area where it could work, especially as a private owned facility is at the Casino and part of the Casino. They would still need to have enough events to fill it, but it could be used to justify bringing a bunch more people to gamble on a given night, it could have hidden benefits to the Casino company. 

 

The third place where it could work well is in Covington at the old IRS center adjacent to the NKY convention center. 

 

All those spots offer access to get on and off highways and parking nearby without overtaxing roads with thousands of cars on event nights. 

 

I just can't see how this gets done without another major league tenant or college team to play full time there. UC and Xavier just renovated their places, NKU has a nice place,  NBA is not coming to Cincy, especially wiht Indy nearby and Louisville trying to make an NBA push too. Maybe Cincinnati can steal the Blue Jackets from Columbus but I just don't see the hockey demand down here. So I do not know how an arena gets done, unless it is part of a convention center project of some sort.

A location in the West End that might work and have some synergy with some other goals is the NW corner of Ezzard Charles and Linn.  It has  highway access, it’s in between the existing stadium and Union Terminal lots, and could help build up the Linn Street business district. ( i could also see this as a location for a re-located District One police station)

Why is there a need? And who would pay for it? No way tax payers would vote to pay for it.

17 minutes ago, jmblec2 said:

Why is there a need? And who would pay for it? No way tax payers would vote to pay for it.

 

I think there is a legitimate need for a new arena, but there is no way it should be as expensive as an NHL or NBA arena (or YUM Center expensive). The current one is very outdated and only getting worse. Renovation doesn't seem worth the price tag to still have the limitations of the existing structure. We would likely need $100M+ $250M+ to renovate the current arena to modern standards. We'd be stripping it down to the studs and then some.

 

We aren't going to lure a major team here, so we should really just be looking for a replacement of our current outdated one that can support high quality concerts, minor league hockey/basketball, wrestling, etc. Something that could last another 40+ years with modest renovations in that time span for modernization. Any promise of big time sports is going to be a lie. G League is probably the highest competition we could expect to see.

 

The citizens will not approve a new tax for an arena, so any governmental assistance would have to come in the form of tax breaks, infrastructure help around the arena, etc. that can be "paid for" with existing revenue.

6 minutes ago, jmblec2 said:

Why is there a need? And who would pay for it? No way tax payers would vote to pay for it.

There is a need because the old arena is very outdated and large acts pass Cincinnati over because of it along with large events like NCAA, etc. Also, large conventions such as GOP/Dem convention or even other large trade groups incorporate arena use in their conventions. A perfect example of this is Wintrust Arena in Chicago as part of McCormack place. Kansas City did this years ago too, in hopes to get an NBA team, but that did not happen yet

 

So, yes, there is a need but does the need outweigh the cost? So far the answer has been no and the taxpayers are not too enthused about doing so. It will also be a heavier lift here as the taxpayers are likely going to be on the hook in the coming years for major renovations to PBS.  

 

Which then begs a separate question. Instead of talking about a $500 million arena, would it be a better bang for the buck to:

1) Enclose PBS with a roof  - Allows to have many of the same events (but may be too large)

2) Enclose TQL with a roof ?

 

You can have the final 4, Super Bowls, College playoff, etc. at PBS with a roof which gives that venue a lot more action. Downside is that it may be too big for convention space but I am sure things could work there.

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Also, large conventions such as GOP/Dem convention or even other large trade groups incorporate arena use in their conventions.

Exactly, this is why any new arena should be placed adjacent to the expanded convention center on a new smaller right of way for I-75.

I don't see enclosing either venue as practical. Just not worth the cost. We'll either have a brand new arena, a tear down and rebuild of the current arena, or continued low budget maintenance of the current arena.

3 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Exactly, this is why any new arena should be placed adjacent to the expanded convention center on a new smaller right of way for I-75.

I don't think using the footprint of the old arena is a great idea. The new arenas have much larger concourses and much more spacious. Part of the problem with Heritage Bank Arena is that the concources are extremely narrow.  YUM Center or the T-Mobile Center in KC are probably better footprints to start with. 

24 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

This is the "warmest" of the three you posted, based on what I have heard.

well then perhaps Laurel Playground because that would be right next to the stadium garage (just a guess, not an endorsement)

8 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I don't see enclosing either venue as practical. Just not worth the cost. We'll either have a brand new arena, a tear down and rebuild of the current arena, or continued low budget maintenance of the current arena.

new arena is certainly preferable however, if ther is a taxpayer component, it may actually make sense to enclose PBS. You figure the taxpayer is going to be on the hook for major renvoations to PBS anyway in the coming years.  The downside is the stadium has limited uses given it is only really used for the Bengals. If you are going to spend $500 million on an arena, maybe put it toward a major reno of PBS and then add a roof and increase the ROI of PBS. 

Not the perfect solution and does not solve the concert problem but could have other benefits.

I hate when people say we can’t lure an nba team or an nhl team…we absolutely can. We have the largest metro area population in all of Ohio. We already have 3 major league sports teams…The only thing I’d argue is nba likes smaller markers with very little to no competition with other sport markets. Also, not sure how serious nba or nhl would reconsider expansion or relocation.  

If organizing minds are somehow successful in changing the course of history with a "Fort Washington Way West" I really think a good location would be the UPS Gest Hub. This is absolutely just an "armchair expert" doodle and not intended to be taken super seriously. EDIT: I've mislabeled John St. that should go one block east. What is labeled John Street would be an extension of Covington's Mainstrasse in Cincinnati via the Clyde Wade Baily Bridge.

Edited January 27, 20223 yr by Chas Wiederhold

2 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I hate when people say we can’t lure an nba team or an nhl team…we absolutely can. We have the largest metro area population in all of Ohio. We already have 3 major league sports teams…The only thing I’d argue is nba likes smaller markers with very little to no competition with other sport markets. Also, not sure how serious nba or nhl would reconsider expansion or relocation.  

I get your point but I can assure you the NBA isn’t happening. Cities such as Seattle and Vegas are light years ahead of Cincinnati for a NBA franchise. Also not sure about NHL but the NBA is in fact looking at expansion.

24 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I get your point but I can assure you the NBA isn’t happening. Cities such as Seattle and Vegas are light years ahead of Cincinnati for a NBA franchise. Also not sure about NHL but the NBA is in fact looking at expansion.

And we also have two solid College Basketball programs. 

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

If organizing minds are somehow successful in changing the course of history with a "Fort Washington Way West" I really think a good location would be the UPS Gest Hub. This is absolutely just an "armchair expert" doodle and not intended to be taken super seriously. EDIT: I've mislabeled John St. that should go one block east. What is labeled John Street would be an extension of Covington's Mainstrasse in Cincinnati via the Clyde Wade Baily Bridge.

My God that would be a game changer for the city...

58 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I hate when people say we can’t lure an nba team or an nhl team…we absolutely can. We have the largest metro area population in all of Ohio. We already have 3 major league sports teams…The only thing I’d argue is nba likes smaller markers with very little to no competition with other sport markets. Also, not sure how serious nba or nhl would reconsider expansion or relocation.  

Here is a good link to measuring capacity of a market to absorb new teams. I would not consider this scientific or authoratative but rather a quick and dirty way to see which markets have the best possibility to ensure success for an expansion team. Note, it shows Cincinnati and Nashville as markets that did not have capacity for an MLS team, and Nashville does not have capacity for an MLB team yet they are trying to get one, so it does not mean it wont happen or cant happen. The key to having any team in a given market is a billionaire owner who wants them in that market. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2015/04/09/capacity0.html

59 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I hate when people say we can’t lure an nba team or an nhl team…we absolutely can. We have the largest metro area population in all of Ohio. We already have 3 major league sports teams…The only thing I’d argue is nba likes smaller markers with very little to no competition with other sport markets. Also, not sure how serious nba or nhl would reconsider expansion or relocation.  

TV market size is the only metric that matters when it comes to pro sports, and Cincinnati is the third largest in the state. Having said that, I think the NBA would work well in Cincy, though there are several cities that would get expansion franchises first.

2 minutes ago, pontiac51 said:

TV market size is the only metric that matters when it comes to pro sports, and Cincinnati is the third largest in the state. Having said that, I think the NBA would work well in Cincy, though there are several cities that would get expansion franchises first.

I think Mr. Simon (Pacers) and Mr. Gilbert (Cavs) would put a major stop to Cincinnati getting an NBA franchise before TV market is even considered. 

57 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

I think Mr. Simon (Pacers) and Mr. Gilbert (Cavs) would put a major stop to Cincinnati getting an NBA franchise before TV market is even considered. 

True. Yet funny because the cavs have very small support in the Cincinnati region and the pacers have close to zero.

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

new arena is certainly preferable however, if ther is a taxpayer component, it may actually make sense to enclose PBS. You figure the taxpayer is going to be on the hook for major renvoations to PBS anyway in the coming years.  The downside is the stadium has limited uses given it is only really used for the Bengals. If you are going to spend $500 million on an arena, maybe put it toward a major reno of PBS and then add a roof and increase the ROI of PBS. 

Not the perfect solution and does not solve the concert problem but could have other benefits.

It may not be the perfect solution, but I think this could be the most beneficial one for Cincinnati.

 

Repurposing PBS with a roof (preferably retractable) could make the city a big-time player for major events, especially college. I could see it in the regular rotation for the men's basketball Final Four considering its central proximity to a lot of the blue blood programs that have huge fan bases. With UC going to the Big 12, I could see it getting into some sort of rotation for the Big 12 football title game (to help expand the league's footprint into Ohio). I could see the Big Ten putting its football title game there occasionally in an effort not to cede the market to the Big 12 (and Ohio State would likely push for that over Indy). Then you have these marquee season-opening games that Atlanta and Dallas have hosted. I think an annual one in Cincinnati would be a slam dunk at PBS (Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan I would think would be willing to do a neutral game in the north against an SEC/southern blue blood).

 

Super Bowl may be tough, but Indy has landed it, so it's not out of the question either. I haven't followed WWE in years, but if their big events are still in the 60,000-plus indoor stadiums, would be a legit possibility. 

 

While it doesn't solve the state-of-the-art, 18,000 to 20,000 seat arena dilemma, that one is always going to be tough for Cincinnati regardless of whether the city had one or not. The NBA is not going to expand or move a team there. As was mentioned Dan Gilbert (who like him or hate him, would have a powerful voice) would block that. The NHL isn't going to move there because it's way to close to Columbus and they aren't going to split the Blue Jackets' fan base. Even the bigger concerts/comedy shows are still going to be tough because they can't go everywhere and there still will be competition with Indy, Columbus, Cleveland and Pittsburgh for those. 

 

And between the existing arena and Fifth-Third and Cintas, the city still has three venues that can fill the needs of 90 percent of the smaller events that are booked.

 

 

4 minutes ago, 646empire said:

True. Yet funny because the cavs have very small support in the Cincinnati region and the pacers have close to zero.

I may have to try to see if I can dig up the ratings by markets, but IIRC, the four years the Cavs-Warriors met in the NBA Finals, I believe the top four in overall ratings were:

 

1. Cleveland

2. San Francisco

3. Columbus

4. Cincinnati

 

I specifically remember Columbus being No. 3 each year and I want to say Cincinnati was No. 4 all four years, though I believe there was a pretty big drop off from Columbus to Cincinnati.

22 minutes ago, Rando Sinclair said:

he city a big-time player for major events, especially college. I could see it in the regular rotation for the men's basketball Final Four considering its central proximity to a lot of the blue blood programs that have huge fan bases

One of the key drivers to try and renovate or replace US Bank arena was getting the NCAA tourney to town. Does it matter if it is the first round or Final 4? I personally would rather have the final 4. 

It also could be incorporated into convention type space being only 3-4 blocks from Convention Center. I think it could be a good opportunity to pursue that angle 

 

Also, look at what can differentiate Cincinnati to Peer cities:

 

Cincinnati   - 2 Outdoor stadiums, 1 soccer Stadium, avg sized convention center, no arena

Cleveland   - 2 outdoor stadiums, 1 arena, avg convention size space

Columbus   - 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer, 2 arenas, large convention center

Indy  -             1 Dome stadium , 1 arena. large convention center

St. Louis         1 Dome Stadium, 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convention center

Louisville         1 arena, 1 stadium, avg convention center space

Kansas City    2 large stadias, 1 arena, 1 soccer stadia, decent convention space

Pittsburgh       2 large stadias, 1 arena, large convention center space

Detroit             1 indoor stadium, 1 baseball stadium, 2 arenas, 

Nashville          1 large stadia, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convetion space.

 

A dome would certainly separate Cincy in the equation where everyone else has a nice arena. Why do we need to follow the crowd, maybe it should be to think outside the box some. 

Edited January 27, 20223 yr by Brutus_buckeye

2 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

One of the key drivers to try and renovate or replace US Bank arena was getting the NCAA tourney to town. Does it matter if it is the first round or Final 4? I personally would rather have the final 4. 

It also could be incorporated into convention type space being only 3-4 blocks from Convention Center. I think it could be a good opportunity to pursue that angle 

I think US Bank could get the first round as is. I guess I haven't paid that close attention (know Cleveland and Columbus have gotten it regularly) and assumed Cincinnati was also already in that rotation. I think the NCAA has gone to more NBA/NHL type facilities, but wasn't that long ago that Cleveland's first-round NCAA games were at the Convocation Center (with CSU technically being listed as the host school).

6 minutes ago, Rando Sinclair said:

I think US Bank could get the first round as is. I guess I haven't paid that close attention (know Cleveland and Columbus have gotten it regularly) and assumed Cincinnati was also already in that rotation. I think the NCAA has gone to more NBA/NHL type facilities, but wasn't that long ago that Cleveland's first-round NCAA games were at the Convocation Center (with CSU technically being listed as the host school).

US Bank could not qualify. Cincy was awarded the NCAA for 2021/2022 i believe on condition that US Bank was renovated to NCAA standards. Since it never happened, the event was pulled. 

NCAA won't come to the current version of Heritage Bank because it's a dump.  A renovated or new arena would get tournament games.  the final four is only played in football stadiums so that wouldn't be at an arena no matter how new or nice.  

 

I'm honestly not even sure how feasible it would be to put a roof on PBS.  I would bet it would likely cost almost as much as a brand new stadium because current PBS was not at all built with a future roof in mind.  

21 minutes ago, Rando Sinclair said:

I may have to try to see if I can dig up the ratings by markets, but IIRC, the four years the Cavs-Warriors met in the NBA Finals, I believe the top four in overall ratings were:

 

1. Cleveland

2. San Francisco

3. Columbus

4. Cincinnati

 

I specifically remember Columbus being No. 3 each year and I want to say Cincinnati was No. 4 all four years, though I believe there was a pretty big drop off from Columbus to Cincinnati.

Cincinnati is still in Ohio so that makes sense. Those 4 years of Lebron v. Golden State ratings would count with a *. I’m not a fan of the cavs and I was watching like a hawk during those years. But before that and as of today zero.

2 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm honestly not even sure how feasible it would be to put a roof on PBS.  I would bet it would likely cost almost as much as a brand new stadium because current PBS was not at all built with a future roof in mind.  

A roof wouldn’t cost a billion plus dollars like a new stadium would. If I had to guess I’m thinking a couple hundred million either way I doubt that’s an option.

Just now, Cincy513 said:

NCAA won't come to the current version of Heritage Bank because it's a dump.  A renovated or new arena would get tournament games.  the final four is only played in football stadiums so that wouldn't be at an arena no matter how new or nice.  

 

I'm honestly not even sure how feasible it would be to put a roof on PBS.  I would bet it would likely cost almost as much as a brand new stadium because current PBS was not at all built with a future roof in mind.  

I think the thought process as Brutus alluded to was that a new arena is going to cost 400-500 million and PBS is probably going to "need" hundreds of millions in improvements (I put need in quotes because it's really not a need but will be forced). 

 

At that point, I think it would be doable for a renovation of PBS with a roof. Honestly, it's something I wished Cleveland would have done for the same reasons, but with the hundreds of millions that have been put into Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse and FirstEnergy in recent years, that is not going to happen unless it's fully privately funded, which isn't going to happen.

 

Actually, Cincinnati not having an adequate arena makes it much more likely that a project like this could be feasible there if all the chips are moved toward it. And there are some definite benefits. 

I'd love it if PBS could add a roof.  But I think it would be way more expensive to do that then people think.  You'd have to enclose the entire stadium because right now only the club areas and team/player areas actually are inside.  The needed hvac and electric for the place would likely cost a couple hundred million on it's own.  Then you add in all the steel and finishes needed along with paying the contractors.  O and the original stadium still needs upgrades if we're doing all of this.  I think it would be a lot closer to 1 billion to do it then a couple hundred million, which is why I don't think it will ever happen. 

Count me in for a roof on PBS. Coincidentally, this has come up in conversation quite a bit with the Bengal buzz happening. Not putting a roof on it initially is ne of the biggest mistakes this city has ever made. Probably could have hosted a SB and a couple final 4's by now.

 

Find a way!

Was PBS designed with any provisions for future enclosure? I know that it had a number of provisions for the future that we didn't end up using, e.g. a second set of lockers rooms for a second home team such as an MLS team.

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

One of the key drivers to try and renovate or replace US Bank arena was getting the NCAA tourney to town. Does it matter if it is the first round or Final 4? I personally would rather have the final 4. 

It also could be incorporated into convention type space being only 3-4 blocks from Convention Center. I think it could be a good opportunity to pursue that angle 

 

Also, look at what can differentiate Cincinnati to Peer cities:

 

Cincinnati   - 2 Outdoor stadiums, 1 soccer Stadium, avg sized convention center, no arena

Cleveland   - 2 outdoor stadiums, 1 arena, avg convention size space

Columbus   - 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer, 2 arenas, large convention center

Indy  -             1 Dome stadium , 1 arena. large convention center

St. Louis         1 Dome Stadium, 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convention center

Louisville         1 arena, 1 stadium, avg convention center space

Kansas City    2 large stadias, 1 arena, 1 soccer stadia, decent convention space

Pittsburgh       2 large stadias, 1 arena, large convention center space

Detroit             1 indoor stadium, 1 baseball stadium, 2 arenas, 

Nashville          1 large stadia, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convetion space.

 

A dome would certainly separate Cincy in the equation where everyone else has a nice arena. Why do we need to follow the crowd, maybe it should be to think outside the box some. 

This is missing secondary arenas in most of these markets.   For instance, Wolstein Center in Cleveland, or Peterson Events Center in Pittsburgh. 

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

This is missing secondary arenas in most of these markets.   For instance, Wolstein Center in Cleveland, or Peterson Events Center in Pittsburgh. 

Or the IX center in Cleveland that has been revived, which is definitely a large convention space on top of our decent sized one downtown that is also expanding. 

4 hours ago, 646empire said:

True. Yet funny because the cavs have very small support in the Cincinnati region and the pacers have close to zero.

 

This is an accurate take. I've lived in Cincinnati my entire life (sans a couple years elsewhere) and have watched exactly zero NBA games, ever. The last time I even watched a part of one, it was a Bulls game with Scottie Pippen and Jordan. I pretty routinely watch college basketball, and most every other professional sport.

14 hours ago, Cleburger said:

This is missing secondary arenas in most of these markets.   For instance, Wolstein Center in Cleveland, or Peterson Events Center in Pittsburgh. 

it is, but pretty much every market has sufficient secondary arenas.