6 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

Almost every major touring act visits Nashville, Detroit, and Chicago. That leaves two dates or so to fill in around Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. All of our 3 closest competitors (Louisville, Columbus, and Indy) have nice arenas. They typically can't visit all 4 cities.

 

Kansas City is so isolated from its peers, it makes almost every tour schedule. It's a large city that is completely isolated. Like Denver, almost every tour stops in Kansas City because it just makes sense logistically. Again, we will likely pick up a few bigger acts with a new, 17,000-ish capacity arena. But we still won't see every major act come to Cincy, just like they don't all come to Columbus, Indy, and Louisville.

 

And coincidentally, Pink is playing at Great American Ballpark this summer. Zach Bryan is playing Lexington. Even with a new arena, his management might still have chosen Lexington.

To your point, obviously, Cincinnati will not get all concerts that currently skip town (As you mention, Columbus and Indy still dont get all the concerts) but what % realistically will we start to get with a new arena?? If that plus some additional events like NCAA events or potentially Arena Football/G League are enough to justify the arena, then I am fine with that proposition. But to your point, the benefits need to be kept in perspective. I am sure we will hear a lot of complaining the first time Lady Gaga announces a tour skipping the new Cincinnati arena in favor of Columbus or Indy. 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I never meant to imply that. You build the arena with the state of the art seats and scoreboards. Your value engineering is behind the scenes in some of the luxury suites and locker rooms, etc. that cost significant money to build out but would receive little usage. The average fan does not notice that difference. 

 

So you value engineer the biggest revenue generator (luxury suites) and the facilities needed to attract major sporting events like NCAA tourney games (locker rooms)?

 

Which, again, leaves you with a Heritage Bank Center situation. A "modern enough" arena, but one lacking the latest updates to compete in attracting the latest events.

 

I get your point, I really do, but you're talking about saving very minimal costs on what will ultimately be a massive project. 

The price tag is going to be huge no matter what, even if you buy traditional sinks for the bathrooms instead of automatic ones. If Cincinnati truly wants to compete for the events that require a "modern, major arena" then they will have to build the real deal (which is what Berding and co. have been proposing) and not some compromised half-measure.

 

The question then becomes who pays for it and where does it go. 

Edited March 15, 20232 yr by Gordon Bombay

3 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

Having a modern, indoor arena is certainly an amenity that can benefit a city and if a deal is brokered that benefits all parties (taxpayers, city, neighborhood, etc.) then it certainly wouldn't be a boondoggle. I certainly understand the skepticism of folks here in Cincy, however. Stadium deals haven't been great in our recent history.

 

Also, while Heritage Bank Center is far from modern or perfect, I wouldn't say it's an embarrassment. Its seating capacity is large, it still hosts the major touring events that come through (wrestling, etc.).

 

Is RC Cola gross? Do the bathrooms always have a thin layer of liquid on the floor that you can't tell is pee or water? Are the concourses small and cramped? The answers to these questions are all a resounding YES, but that hasn't stopped the building from packing folks in for monster trucks and hosting minor league hockey in a central location of the city.

 

There's all this talk of "missed events," but...

• The RNC/DNC would realistically only come here once each (if that).
• The NCAA March Madness tournaments hosts its finals at indoor football stadiums now.
• Everyone says we miss concerts, yet, no one can seem to point out what concerts we're missing or an artist who specifically said "Oh, I'd come to Cincy, but I'm not playing at their arena because of X, Y, and Z." To be fair, I'm not doubting this point, I'm just always wondering who are these artists we're missing and is it really the building, or, other logistics or touring?

Great venue? Not at all. But an embarrassment? I wouldn't go that far. And trust me, no one hates that venue more than me. Anyone who wants to hear a rant, come join me for a Cyclones dollar beer night. 

 

 

No, that logic is not the "same", because...

• One's an arena, one's a convention center.

They're not comparable, because the Duke Energy Convention Center doesn't and wouldn't have a "tenant" in the same vein. It exists to host traveling events of a variety that an indoor arena could complement, but would never compete for. It has an argument for public support due to the economic impact it can contribute. 

 

Conversely, a modern arena that lacks a major tenant, has different merits to try and espouse and needs to be sold to the public in a different way (especially if they're going to support it financially). 

 

 

This logic just leads to the exact same situation we have now. If you're not going to build it to modern standards, then what's the point? Because that's what we've got currently. Heritage Bank Center is a relic of the past, but it's certainly not obsolete.

I will not stand for slander of RC Cola in this thread !!!

4 minutes ago, Dcs3939 said:

I will not stand for slander of RC Cola in this thread !!!

 

I will once again throw out the offer to anyone on this forum: if you want to hear my rants about US Bank Arena/Heritage, please join me for a Cyclones $1 beer night. 😀

I have so many thoughts on that building and its history + RC Cola has often been in those rants.

 

Truthfully, I think RC is just fine, but a former roommate and I used to joke abut it every time we saw a concert or caught a game at the arena. "We come here for RC and 7-Up, the hockey game is just a bonus." Then we started buying RC Cola for our apartment and man... that stuff just isn't my cup of tea cola. 

Edited March 15, 20232 yr by Gordon Bombay

Sorry to double post, but, just noticed this. Five years ago today (five years and two days ago, actually), I published this story about the loss of Cincinnati's greatest arena: https://ronnysalerno.com/queencitydiscovery/2018/03/goodbye-to-gardens.html

Even if this city builds the most modern, greatest arena of all time, NOTHING will ever beat the Gardens. 

Edited March 15, 20232 yr by Gordon Bombay

15 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

So you value engineer the biggest revenue generator (luxury suites) and the facilities needed to attract major sporting events like NCAA tourney games (locker rooms)?

There is a big difference between an NCAA tourney locker room and the locker room for the Golden State Warriors. The Warriors home locker room costs millions of dollars more than it would be to have a locker room for the NCAA tourney. NCAA teams who play in NBA arenas are not using the home team locker room anyway, so again that is an easy cut without sacrificing any value to the arena.

 

Doing some value engineering in luxury suites to make them nice but not ostentatious is a worthwhile savings too. Corporate suite holders will use the suite maybe a dozen or so times per year with concerts, etc. vs 60+ times a year with an NBA/NHL tenant. You have to also build it and price it so the corporate group finds the value there. If a suite cost a company $500k per year, what do they get for that and how does it compare to the same value you would get for FC, Reds, Bengals, etc. You dont need to go over the top when your events cant deliver the value. 

58 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Cyclones $1 beer night

 

It's $2 now. 

1 hour ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Even if this city builds the most modern, greatest arena of all time, NOTHING will ever beat the Gardens. 

 

That place was trash.  Even worse than...

49 minutes ago, richNcincy said:

 

It's $2 now. 

And they wonder why no one goes! 

Just now, ColDayMan said:

 

That place was trash.  Even worse than...

Mods, please band together and overthrow @ColDayMan. Thanks. 

Mayor Pureval, Hamilton County commissioners discuss new Cincinnati arena prospects

 

Mayor Aftab Pureval and two of the three Hamilton County commissioners said they are open to talking about funding a study of a new arena in the city’s urban core, but also were cautious about issuing any firm commitment to foot part of the bill.

 

On March 10 at the Visit Cincy annual meeting, FC Cincinnati co-CEO Jeff Berding said it was time for a feasibility study to replace Heritage Bank Center looking at how much it could cost, how it could be financed and where it would go. He urged the business community, the city and the county to work together to fund and complete it within the next year. He also said the region should not wait another decade before replacing Heritage Bank Center. Visit Cincy is the region’s convention and visitors bureau and Berding chairs its board.

 

The Business Courier spoke with Pureval, Commissioner Denise Driehaus and Commissioner Stephanie Summerow Dumas about whether they’d be willing to foot the bill for part of the study. Its cost is unknown. Commissioner Alicia Reece did not return a call seeking comment.

 

Pureval said he wanted to consult more with Cincinnati City Council before moving forward but acknowledged the declining state of the existing, half-century old arena.

 

“We’re in early conversations,” Pureval said. “We are losing out on national and international events because of our lack of a world-class, modern arena. We need to talk about whether we want an arena, the feasibility of an arena, where the arena would go and then make a decision based on that. We’re in a very early visioning stage about what the structure of those conversations will look like.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/20/leaders-react-cincinnati-arena.html

 

 

I think this was identified as a source for the convention center district projects by 3CDC. Their updates to the county commissioners included a reference to this necessary change in state law.

Edited April 19, 20232 yr by Miami-Erie

That rendering of the arena is hilarious. It looks like the people were cut and pasted from the room the Mona Lisa is in.

41 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

That rendering of the arena is hilarious. It looks like the people were cut and pasted from the room the Mona Lisa is in.

 

It's very similar to the Moody Center in Austin

 

50 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

That rendering of the arena is hilarious. It looks like the people were cut and pasted from the room the Mona Lisa is in.

 

The Mona Lisa is set back in a little glass cabinet.  I wish it was bigger, and filled with prizes, like a Skill Crane.  

What is happening with a new arena for Cincinnati?

Quote

Since the first rendering of a new arena that could replace the 48-year-old Heritage Bank Center popped up in March, speculation has been building over where it could be built.

Now we have eight options and a tentative timeline for construction.

Visit Cincy, the region's convention and tourism bureau, has put together a list of sites in and around downtown Cincinnati where a 16,000- to 18,000-person arena could fit.

The Enquirer obtained a presentation from the organization that detailed the potential sites and what it would take for the city to conduct an independent feasibility study on the cost and construction of a future arena in Cincinnati. Chairman Jeff Berding, who also co-owns and serves as co-CEO of FC Cincinnati, announced late last spring that he was pushing for the city to complete a study by the end of this year.

"When we're doing big infrastructure projects like this, you have to have buy-in from the public sector," Berding told The Enquirer. "I believe there is the wherewithal for the city and county to step forward and see that this feasibility study happens because, ultimately, if there's going to be an arena, there's going to be public involvement." 

Current size estimates for the proposed West End location add up to a 216,080-square-foot arena. (By comparison, Heritage Bank Center is over 346,000 square feet and seats 17,500 people.)

 

 

 

 

Heres the 8 potential sites

West End Site: South of TQL Stadium on Ezzard Charles Drive and West Central Parkway.

Downtown East Site: North of the Hard Rock Casino Cincinnati between Gilbert Avenue and Reading Road.

Heritage Bank Center Site: On the original site of the Heritage Bank Center at Broadway and Pete Rose Way.

Queensgate Site: On the lot currently housing the historic Longworth Hall building at Gest Street and Pete Rose Way.

Convention Center South Site: South of the Duke Energy Convention Center between Fourth and Fifth streets and Plum and Elm streets.

P&G Headquarters North Site: North of P&G's Central Building spanning Sycamore Street between Sixth and Seventh streets.

Millennium Hotel Site 1: On the site of the former Millennium Hotel on Elm Street between Fifth and Sixth streets.

Millennium Hotel Site 2: On the site of the former Millennium Hotel on Elm Street between Fifth and Seventh streets.

 

Personally find that the West End site is too small in my opinion and that a location on the former Millenium Hotel site would be best as well as the Casino site. 

Look at all of the historic buildings they recklessly propose to demolish. Longworth Hall, the preserved block of 4th/5th west of Plum, the old Shillito's dept store.

Definitely fits most comfortably at the casino site out of those options.

Casino site with the Hard Rock hotel taking up the old greyhound station makes the most sense. Wouldn’t mind the P&G north site either as it would remove some large parking lots and could help start redevelopment of the other large lots around it. 

1 hour ago, Lazarus said:

Look at all of the historic buildings they recklessly propose to demolish. Longworth Hall, the preserved block of 4th/5th west of Plum, the old Shillito's dept store.

I personally didn't even notice Shillitos was gonna be torn down till now in the millennium site. 

Several of those locations are non-starters.

Seems a bit presumptuous that they name a design team before even determining how a public feasibility study would be conducted, financed or managed.

ODOT is acquiring the Longworth Hall site for the Brent Spence project and it will not be available in the next several years. 

 

It's pretty common knowledge FC Cincinnati ownership group is planning to finance this with infrastructure incentives and tax incrememt financing.As near to their developments as possible.The Cyclones would be a tenant.They also want 1 major league sports tenant.Probably a NHL franchise.

If I were going to rank the sites

1A) New land next to convention center from I-75 project - This is really not feasible because a project located here cant really happen for another 10 years.

1) West End  (solely because FC is likely to come up with the money), although I think you move it South toward City Hall a few blocks

2) Casino, because it ties into it for programming, easy access from 71, and can further integrate with that neighborhood

3) Renovate Heritage on existing site - Because it is there

4) Longworth Hall - Keep the existing building and integrate it into a new arena

5) P&G site. it can integrate with the Casino area fairly well

 

The rest of the sites are non starters because there just is not enough room around the old Millenium site and they have already committed to build the new Hotel on the Convention place site so that eliminates consideration for an arena.

 

One other issue i have is why build a new arena smaller than the old arena. Build it to 20k seats. While I have no preconceptions that we would ever get an NBA or NHL team, let's not close that avenue down completely as well as holding larger arena events that need 20k+ seat capacity. 20k + creates flexibility. We have plenty of arenas in the 10-12k capacity already, lets build a big one if you do it like the YUM Center size.

9 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

It's pretty common knowledge FC Cincinnati ownership group is planning to finance this with infrastructure incentives and tax incrememt financing.As near to their developments as possible. The Cyclones would be a tenant.They also want 1 major league sports tenant.Probably a NHL franchise.

I cant see NHL coming here. There is just not enough hockey infrastructure in town to support it (Maybe that will change, especially if the market starts growing much faster but that is still too early to predict). If anything, I could see NBA here before NHL (because there may be more moneyed individuals in town willing to bring in an NBA team), because the growth for NBA is much better than NHL projections.  

If it happens, it’ll be at the CET site, let’s be real. Otherwise they wouldn’t be talking about it, as there is not really any immediate need for an arena at all.

My favorite site is the casino site. It is the only one that makes sense, aside from possibly being a supplement to the convention center to make it bigger. Arenas are a poor use of urban land for the most part, but they are decent at driving pedestrian traffic into cities to support bars & restaurants. At the casino site, it’s still about as walkable to Pendleton as TQL Stadium is to OTR. I can also see it making a lot more sense to have an arena tied into a casino for UFC fights, for instance, singular big-draw events we don’t have here but would make sense to do. Getting an NHL team is fantasy at this point because of the Blue Jackets, and let’s be real there is not much of a hockey culture here. I still think it’s dumb to build this arena, but it is what it is at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

Current size estimates for the proposed West End location add up to a 216,080-square-foot arena. (By comparison, Heritage Bank Center is over 346,000 square feet and seats 17,500 people.)

 

 

Why even build this here if it's going to be too small?

 

28 minutes ago, SWOH said:

it’ll be at the CET site, let’s be real. 

I mean, it's pretty transparent to design a footprint that works on that site and then transpose it to a host of other "possible" locations. 

New arenas are going away from being 20,000+ seats.  It's all about the premium seats now as that's where you make your money.  If people are going to attend a game/event they want to see the game/event well and be pampered.  Cramming more people into the rafters where you can barely see the court is not what people want anymore.  The Milwaukee Bucks new arena is under 18,000 seats. Seattle's renovated arena for their new NHL team has less then 19,000 seats.  T Mobile Arena in Vegas that opened a couple years ago for their NHL team is less then 18,000 seats for basketball or hockey games.  

 

If this new arena is bigger then 16,000 seats it would be plenty big for an NBA or NHL team.  I don't think we're ever going to get one of those franchises because our metro is too small, but an arena of that size doesn't eliminate the possibility.  

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and am not invested enough to care about Jeff Berding's motivations or not. To some he's a villain and to others he's a hero. I don't care either way but this arena debate is shaping up to be a battle between 3CDC and the Convention Center District vs. Jeff Berding/FCC and the new Arena. To the winner, goes the spoils (ie taxpayer dollars). Berding may even be working with his old friend Alicia Reece to throw sand in 3CDC's gears at the Convention Center. 

 

It would appear that Berding is 10 steps ahead of everyone here. A clear choice of those 8 arena sites is the West End, just as Berding wants. 

 

Sites as ranked by MSA (probably with Berding's direct involvement):

1. West End (shocking, it's #1)

2. Casino - Too far from hotels. No site control. Also is in a dense residential area with traffic considerations.

3. Heritage Bank Arena - No site control. Location has a better use and a new arena could spur investment somewhere else. An arena at this site is not a catalyst.

4. Longworth Hall - ODOT controls. BSB is an issue. Far from hotels and west of 75. When I saw this site was #4, I knew the fix was in.

5. Convention Center South - isn't this where the hotel is going? Seems like a jab at 3CDC.

6. P&G HQ North - floated because it's such an obvious sea of parking lots. No one is pushing for this one to happen even though it probably could work out well.

7 and 8. Millennium Hotel Sites - isn't this part of the convention center expansion. Seems like a direct jab at 3CDC.

 

Get your popcorn ready because I doubt this drama is going to end anytime soon.

NBA and NHL aren’t coming to Cincinnati given the proximity of that league’s other teams in Columbus, Indy, and Cleveland + those league’s desire to expand into other markets that are much larger. 

I wonder what this feasibility study will find? A site that makes sense, or the one they’ve already been pushing which benefits Jeff Berding’s existing investments the most? 
 

hmm 🤔 

I don't think the sites were ranked in order, they were just numbered.  But yeah the arena is going on the CET site.  This is just to show that they looked at alternative locations before settling on that one.  

Except that the map above doesn't acknowledge the new land created by the Brent Spence ramps at all, so it's not really looking at all the alternatives. I know that site won't be immediately available, but whats this big rush all the sudden? Is there IRA funding that needs to be claimed by a certain time or something? Are they afraid Nederlander will get into a bidding war to secure tax breaks or federal funding? I wish we would just wait until the final final BSB plans were done and plan this along with it adjacent to the convention center where it can be the most useful for large events.

I really dig the P&G north site, especially since it could be used as a reason to finally get rid of the Gilbert Avenue viaduct 

41 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

NBA and NHL aren’t coming to Cincinnati given the proximity of that league’s other teams in Columbus, Indy, and Cleveland + those league’s desire to expand into other markets that are much larger. 

I wonder what this feasibility study will find? A site that makes sense, or the one they’ve already been pushing which benefits Jeff Berding’s existing investments the most? 
 

hmm 🤔 

I think it may be a pipe dream to get an NBA or NHL team here, stranger things have happened and we should not completely shut the door on the idea. If you have an ambitious enough owner, things can happen.  Maybe Dr Troendle is a big NBA fan or something. 

I would not see Indy as an issue either. Louisville has been seriously considered as an NBA expansion city a number of years back so I do not think the NBA is too concerned or heavily prioritizing the Indy market.  NHL is harder because Cincy is a much bigger basketball town than hockey town so it would be a much harder lift to generate the support for an NHL team with the other competition in town. Columbus is not a huge factor (heck, who knows if Columbus will be there in 20 years, it is not like they have a huge passionate following like Pittsburgh or Detroit have, most of the people around here who go to Blue Jacket games are fans of the visiting team more than Columbus)

I like the Casino site best. Don't count out getting an NHL team. Several teams are looking to relocate in the next few years as their arenas get old. The Florida Panthers' arena lease is up in 2030 and who knows what the Coyotes will do. 

22 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think it may be a pipe dream to get an NBA or NHL team here, stranger things have happened and we should not completely shut the door on the idea. If you have an ambitious enough owner, things can happen. 

Sure, but your key phrase here is “pipe dream.”

 

Could the NBA or NHL come here?

Sure.

 

Is it likely?

Not at all at the current time.

5 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Sure, but your key phrase here is “pipe dream.”

 

Could the NBA or NHL come here?

Sure.

 

Is it likely?

Not at all at the current time.

Not at the current time, but also remember that nobody in 2010-2015 thought we would ever have an MLS team.

 

In the arena wars cities play off each other all the time for that battle. While a team may only relocate here for say 20 years, it is still an asset worth having for that time. Look at the fortunate cities to get a team solely because they have had an arena at the right time for the team to relocate. - OKC got their team because of an arena, same with Memphis, the Panthers are in Carolina because of an arena. Indy has an NFL team because they had an arena. Kansas City was close to getting another NBA team because of the arena. Not saying that if you build it they will come, but if you have it and can make use of the asset in the mean time, it just opens up more opportuntiies. 

OKC got the Sonics partly because of their "new" arena and because the owner is a douche. OKC looking for a new arena already. 

The NBA and NHL have both talked about expansion though not as much as the MLB. There are a few teams with old arenas that will be looking to move soonish as well. It's unlikely that Cincy gets a team but not impossible.

 

TBH: UC deciding to renovate 5/3 arena really hurt the whole arena game in the city. UC should have been a main tenant at a downtown arena or built a bigger venue on/around campus.

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Not at the current time, but also remember that nobody in 2010-2015 thought we would ever have an MLS team.

 

In the arena wars cities play off each other all the time for that battle. While a team may only relocate here for say 20 years, it is still an asset worth having for that time. Look at the fortunate cities to get a team solely because they have had an arena at the right time for the team to relocate. - OKC got their team because of an arena, same with Memphis, the Panthers are in Carolina because of an arena. Indy has an NFL team because they had an arena. Kansas City was close to getting another NBA team because of the arena. Not saying that if you build it they will come, but if you have it and can make use of the asset in the mean time, it just opens up more opportuntiies. 

I think the #1 most important reason is having a few billionaires wanting to bring another franchise to their metro area.The Lindners brought MLS to the City there is a track record for it.They want a NHL or NBA franchise in a new arena they are willing to build.Now this is a long term goal but a goal.

55 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Not at the current time, but also remember that nobody in 2010-2015 thought we would ever have an MLS team.

 

Having once been very involved with that whole process, I can't stress enough how totally different that scenario was—in a much smaller league that was actively seeking expansion when this market quickly proved it could not only support it, but afford it (and also a league, as it turned out, already had plans at the ready to move Columbus' franchise to Austin). 

 

EDIT: Also to this specific point, @Brutus_buckeye (and to recognize your earlier one), if there was an local wealthy business owner who was going to go for NBA or NHL, I have no doubt that it'd be Carl Lindner III. My guess would be NBA over NHL, though. 

 

My overall point is, the dangling of an NHL or NBA franchise shouldn't be something seriously considered as a carrot, because at this time it's not just unlikely, it's HIGHLY unlikely. Like you said, could it happen some day? Sure. But the odds aren't good. And if a franchise isn't relocating... quickly ...then the arena is going to be "outdated" in terms of being a potential new home venue for any relocation team (see Memphis and its Pyramid only being temporary before the Fed Ex Forum, or, Kansas City's lack of contention in recent years). Also, if you're hoping to lure a major league tenant - having "limited concourses" isn't a great move. 

That being said, even without a top league tenant, there's still a case for an arena—but if one is going to be built it needs to make sense. Since we're not likely to lure the NBA or NHL, what does that arena need to accomplish? Does it need to complement the convention center? Does it need to be a catalyst to revitalize a section of town?

 

Ultimately, those questions don't seem to matter at this moment— because it's pretty clear just from the latest news that they want the West End site (which conveniently just so happens to best benefit Berding and his existing investments). 

 

These are the same folks who keep saying we're passed up for concerts all the time due to our arena, but they can never tell you exactly what concerts those were. 

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by Gordon Bombay

I'm just sayin

' 

2 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and am not invested enough to care about Jeff Berding's motivations or not. To some he's a villain and to others he's a hero. I don't care either way but this arena debate is shaping up to be a battle between 3CDC and the Convention Center District vs. Jeff Berding/FCC and the new Arena. To the winner, goes the spoils (ie taxpayer dollars). Berding may even be working with his old friend Alicia Reece to throw sand in 3CDC's gears at the Convention Center. 

 

It would appear that Berding is 10 steps ahead of everyone here. A clear choice of those 8 arena sites is the West End, just as Berding wants. 

 

Sites as ranked by MSA (probably with Berding's direct involvement):

1. West End (shocking, it's #1)

2. Casino - Too far from hotels. No site control. Also is in a dense residential area with traffic considerations.

3. Heritage Bank Arena - No site control. Location has a better use and a new arena could spur investment somewhere else. An arena at this site is not a catalyst.

4. Longworth Hall - ODOT controls. BSB is an issue. Far from hotels and west of 75. When I saw this site was #4, I knew the fix was in.

5. Convention Center South - isn't this where the hotel is going? Seems like a jab at 3CDC.

6. P&G HQ North - floated because it's such an obvious sea of parking lots. No one is pushing for this one to happen even though it probably could work out well.

7 and 8. Millennium Hotel Sites - isn't this part of the convention center expansion. Seems like a direct jab at 3CDC.

 

Get your popcorn ready because I doubt this drama is going to end anytime soon.

 

Berding is Chair of the Visit Cincy board and has been one of the biggest advocates for the new convention center. I don't think he'd be interested in throwing any sand into those gears. Also, jabbing 3CDC would not be in his interest at all. Their board is made up of people he needs to maintain good relationships with.

22 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Berding is Chair of the Visit Cincy board and has been one of the biggest advocates for the new convention center. I don't think he'd be interested in throwing any sand into those gears. Also, jabbing 3CDC would not be in his interest at all. Their board is made up of people he needs to maintain good relationships with.

 

All good points! I think he's just very interested in getting his piece of the taxpayer pie however. I can't blame him.

1 hour ago, ucnum1 said:

I think the #1 most important reason is having a few billionaires wanting to bring another franchise to their metro area.The Lindners brought MLS to the City there is a track record for it.They want a NHL or NBA franchise in a new arena they are willing to build. Now this is a long term goal but a goal.

And while overall I agree with the sentiments of @Gordon Bombay,  there is something to be said that a new arena built privately would be the catalyst for the owner to try and relocate a NHL or NBA team. Lindners are good business people, but I cant see them wanting to spend the money on the NBA with the current valuations. NHL is much cheaper and more affordable but it seems as if it is not a growing enterprise like the NBA or even MLS. With that said, I cant see the Lindners as the group to bring a 4th professional franchise to town. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

And while overall I agree with the sentiments of @Gordon Bombay,  there is something to be said that a new arena built privately would be the catalyst for the owner to try and relocate a NHL or NBA team. Lindners are good business people, but I cant see them wanting to spend the money on the NBA with the current valuations. NHL is much cheaper and more affordable but it seems as if it is not a growing enterprise like the NBA or even MLS. With that said, I cant see the Lindners as the group to bring a 4th professional franchise to town. 

 

This is fair, I just see them as the main player if the arena goes into the West End as they have a lot of real estate and investment over that way with TQL and its current adjoining developments.

Either way, though, what concerns me about that site is its proximity to historic buildings and numerous homes (how long until they come for those) and the "limited concourses" laid out the above early plans. Heritage Bank Center is certainly dated, but it has been able to host the main regular touring acts (wrestling, ice shows, circus, etc.) and even big concert draws (Chili Peppers, etc.). However, one of its biggest detriments is how even on a mildly attended Cyclones night - the concourses are awfully crowded. Hell, even TQL stadium from the get go has small concourses. 

I just think to make best use of an arena, it needs to remedy all issues with our existing one and it should also serve as an extension to the convention center. I feel like most of the listed locations (with maybe the exception of Longworth Hall) are better than the West End. 

 

All in all, this is an exciting development for the city. 

20 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

And while overall I agree with the sentiments of @Gordon Bombay,  there is something to be said that a new arena built privately would be the catalyst for the owner to try and relocate a NHL or NBA team. Lindners are good business people, but I cant see them wanting to spend the money on the NBA with the current valuations. NHL is much cheaper and more affordable but it seems as if it is not a growing enterprise like the NBA or even MLS. With that said, I cant see the Lindners as the group to bring a 4th professional franchise to town. 

 

It is the Lindners and Meg Whitman.I agree and have heard the NHL is the most likely outcome for a new arena tenant.Again long term goal of theirs.This ownership group has a 10 and 20 year master plan outlined.

11 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

I just think to make best use of an arena, it needs to remedy all issues with our existing one and it should also serve as an extension to the convention center. I feel like most of the listed locations (with maybe the exception of Longworth Hall) are better than the West End. 

I agree, the best use is as much of an extension of the convention center. Heritage does not provide this extension. The location in between TQL and the convention center would, as would Longworth Hall. Plus, you could also integrate Paycor into some potential convention pitches better too.  Having something to add convention space to run 2-3 conventions simultaneiously or even run AAU sporting tourneys in a compact space would be very beneficial.