Would Cincinnati be in the conversation for a NBA or NHL expansion team in today's markets? Hell no.But that doesn't really matter.Cincinnati is a suitable market for either league to  be in although it in the low end of both markets.What Cincinnati has is willing billionaires  wanting to get a franchise into Cincinnati in a self financed arena.Can they do it? No idea but it's very possible with billionaires involved.Cincinnati has always had a defeatist attitude idk why

We are not getting an NHL or NBA team. Best we'll get is G League, upgraded Cyclones to an AHL team, or potentially a PWHL or WNBA team. But I don't expect either of the last two, either.

 

Again, we are not getting NHL or NBA teams in Cincinnati.

11 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

We are not getting an NHL or NBA team. Best we'll get is G League, upgraded Cyclones to an AHL team, or potentially a PWHL or WNBA team. But I don't expect either of the last two, either.

 

Again, we are not getting NHL or NBA teams in Cincinnati.

That is probably likely but dont say never. People said the same thing about FCC too at one time. I said that about FCC when they started too. 

If you have the right ownership group and an arena that is up to standards, it can work in Cincinnati. 

 

If you look at the Cin-day Region as a whole, it is larger than Charlotte (albeit slower growing), larger than Nashville, larger than Salt Lake, smaller but still comparable to Minneapolis. 

All of those markets have or are working to land a 4th or 5th professional team. So I would not say never. 

25 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

We are not getting an NHL or NBA team. Best we'll get is G League, upgraded Cyclones to an AHL team, or potentially a PWHL or WNBA team. But I don't expect either of the last two, either.

 

Again, we are not getting NHL or NBA teams in Cincinnati.

Google Meg Whitman The Lindner family net worth of 7-8 billion.That is the only answer needed to rebuttal of this statement.

12 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

That is probably likely but dont say never. People said the same thing about FCC too at one time. I said that about FCC when they started too. 

If you have the right ownership group and an arena that is up to standards, it can work in Cincinnati. 

 

If you look at the Cin-day Region as a whole, it is larger than Charlotte (albeit slower growing), larger than Nashville, larger than Salt Lake, smaller but still comparable to Minneapolis. 

All of those markets have or are working to land a 4th or 5th professional team. So I would not say never. 

I'm fairly confident a NHL franchise will do well in the Cincinnati market.

13 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

We are not getting an NHL or NBA team. Best we'll get is G League, upgraded Cyclones to an AHL team, or potentially a PWHL or WNBA team. But I don't expect either of the last two, either.

 

Again, we are not getting NHL or NBA teams in Cincinnati.

Exactly, all this chatter about NHL and NBA is silly. It’s not about billionaires or the city being “suitable”. From the leagues point of view and the city’s overall appetite it’s just not in the cards. The city needs and wants a championship not another pro franchise. 

Maybe we should reach out to Lebron to get an expansion team like Jordan did with Charlotte. Instead of him getting a team in Las Vegas, we could entice him to come home-ish to Ohio and make a Cincy team. 

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Exactly, all this chatter about NHL and NBA is silly. It’s not about billionaires or the city being “suitable”. From the leagues point of view and the city’s overall appetite it’s just not in the cards. The city needs and wants a championship not another pro franchise. 

I bet you are wrong and the city would support a team in either league above league average.The ownership group is going to try and bring another professional franchise to this area.Go ahead and bet against them.

I'm not saying never. I'm saying we aren't going to see an NHL or NBA team hosted in a new arena we build in the next 6 years. In 30 years? Who knows what the conditions of these leagues will be. But we are not getting an NHL or NBA team with this arena. It's not happening.

 

And I'm well aware of Lindner's and Whitman's net worths. I've been actively involved in the FC Cincinnati scene since 2016. It was an uphill battle to bring MLS to Cincinnati. But it was a much smaller hill. 

9 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I'm not saying never. I'm saying we aren't going to see an NHL or NBA team hosted in a new arena we build in the next 6 years. In 30 years? Who knows what the conditions of these leagues will be. But we are not getting an NHL or NBA team with this arena. It's not happening.

 

And I'm well aware of Lindner's and Whitman's net worths. I've been actively involved in the FC Cincinnati scene since 2016. It was an uphill battle to bring MLS to Cincinnati. But it was a much smaller hill. 

A billion to buy a NHL team and relocate it.A billion for a new arena to have your new team play in it.It is that simple. 

Edited February 1, 20241 yr by ucnum1

4 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

'm not saying never. I'm saying we aren't going to see an NHL or NBA team hosted in a new arena we build in the next 6 years. In 30 years? Who knows what the conditions of these leagues will be. But we are not getting an NHL or NBA team with this arena. It's not happening.

Highly unlikely yes. But the biggest hurdle of an eager ownership group being in place helps the odds quite a bit. 

 

Also, if they build an arena that is privately funded or mostly privately funded, it helps the odds. If the Lindner's own the arena and get an NHL team in place, the economics of the arena work out quite well for them whereas, if the arena is publicly funded, then it is harder to support an NHL team because they are paying rent to the arena and chances are the team's owners have some restrictions on how they can monetize the facility since it would be subject to city/county permission and reviews.

 

As I think about it more, the only real way to make a 4th team work in this market is to build an arena with private ownership who would also own the team. 

 

Now, to your point, Cincy is not going to be the belle of the ball when it comes to expansion cities, but if a team like the Jets, Coyotes, Hurricanes, Blue Jackets, Panthers come available, there could be an opportunity at an affordable price. 

On 1/31/2024 at 1:41 PM, GCrites said:

I don't know if the average person here in Columbus could tell you when we had March Madness games.

I was there when Iowa played Tennessee I think in 2019. We had the worst nose bleeds possible, fun time though, Iowa lost in OT. This was the second round, and first round.

Edited February 1, 20241 yr by IAGuy39

1 hour ago, ucnum1 said:

I bet you are wrong and the city would support a team in either league above league average.The ownership group is going to try and bring another professional franchise to this area.Go ahead and bet against them.

What?? no one is betting against anyone lol. Also did you actually read my comment. It’s not about if the city could/would support a new team my comment said there is no real appetite for another pro franchise nor is there real interest in Cincy by the NBA or NHL. Remember this conversation only happening because we want a new arena not a new pro team. As others have mentioned no one is saying never but I’m certainly not seeing in here in the 2020s.

Edited February 1, 20241 yr by 646empire

On 1/31/2024 at 1:41 PM, GCrites said:

I don't know if the average person here in Columbus could tell you when we had March Madness games.

The tourney games were just in Columbus last year.  In one of the games the number 1 overall seed Purdue lost in the first round to a 16 seed for only the second time in tournament history.  It was extremely high profile. 

 

Unless you're one of the people who never visit the city you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to not remember that from 11 months ago.  

58 minutes ago, 646empire said:

What?? no one is betting against anyone lol. Also did you actually read my comment. It’s not about if the city could/would support a new team my comment said there is no real appetite for another pro franchise nor is there real interest in Cincy by the NBA or NHL. Remember this conversation only happening because we want a new arena not a new pro team. As others have mentioned no one is saying never but I’m certainly not seeing in here in the 2020s.

The appetite is FC Cincinnati ownership wants a new team in the region it begins and ends there.They have the means to build a arena purchase a team and relocate it. It is that simple.

Edited February 1, 20241 yr by ucnum1

33 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

The appetite is FC Cincinnati ownership wants a new team in the region it begins and ends there.They have the means to build an arena purchase a team and relocate it. It is that simple.

Im familiar with that ownership group and I can tell you they are not interested in spending a billion plus dollars on a new NBA- NHL team in Cincy at this time period. Their focus is building the mix-use development outside of TQL stadium period. No endeavor that cost billionaires billions of dollars is ever “that simple” lol. Lets move on.

16 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Im familiar with that ownership group and I can tell you they are not interested in spending a billion plus dollars on a new NBA- NHL team in Cincy at this time period. Their focus is building the mix-use development outside of TQL stadium period. No endeavor that cost billionaires billions of dollars is ever “that simple” lol. Lets move on.

That is why had done studies on the viability of having another pro franchise in the Cincinnati market.

5 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

The tourney games were just in Columbus last year.  In one of the games the number 1 overall seed Purdue lost in the first round to a 16 seed for only the second time in tournament history.  It was extremely high profile. 

 

Unless you're one of the people who never visit the city you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to not remember that from 11 months ago.  

 

That's the kind of stuff people in Cincinnati know but people in OSU football-crazed Columbus are less savvy about. Score one for the well-known higher interest in college basketball in Cincinnati. March Madness games would certainly be a bigger deal to locals there.

On 2/1/2024 at 3:36 PM, 646empire said:

Im familiar with that ownership group and I can tell you they are not interested in spending a billion plus dollars on a new NBA- NHL team in Cincy at this time period. Their focus is building the mix-use development outside of TQL stadium period. No endeavor that cost billionaires billions of dollars is ever “that simple” lol. Lets move on.

Like I said it's been studied adding another franchise by the FC Cincinnati ownership group in their plan of building a new West End Arena about 22k capacity.

 

 

Edited February 3, 20241 yr by ucnum1

22k seems a little big. The Seattle arena is only like 17k

2 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

22k seems a little big. The Seattle arena is only like 17k

Keeping the option for a suitable capacity of that of a NBA franchise although unlikely. 

5 hours ago, ucnum1 said:

Like I said it's been studied adding another franchise by the FC Cincinnati ownership group in their plan of building a new West End Arena about 22k capacity.

 

 

Trust me when I tell you this is not happening. I spoke with someone earlier today and they reiterated it’s a media ploy to build a new arena. As others have said over and over and over it’s never a never but it’s not actually in the cards right now. Read between the lines or no lines, Jeff Berding: We have to build an arena first lol.

13 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Trust me when I tell you this is not happening. I spoke with someone earlier today and they reiterated it’s a media ploy to build a new arena. As others have said over and over and over it’s never a never but it’s not actually in the cards right now. Read between the lines or no lines, Jeff Berding: We have to build an arena first lol.

Okie dokey.Ill only add Jeff Berding is running his mouth saying this is going to happen.I think the man is a blowhard myself but he has a track record of blowing hot air but actually making things happen.

14 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

22k seems a little big. The Seattle arena is only like 17k

Climate Pledge Arena was basically a complete construction of the Key arena, so there were some constraints with capacity. 

The intention is to build a very nice arena in Cincinnati.I won't say top in class but I have heard close to a billion for new arena with a planned capacity of 20k up to 22k.The intent is to try and get a major league tenant but at worst this new Arena will get Cincinnati NCAA games and much more.

Assuming that Heritage Bank is out of the question since it seems like they are wanting to get this moving relatively quickly. 
Casino site: 

Red-Arena

Yellow- Hotel to serve both arena and Casino 

Blue- Additional garage

 

West End site:

Green- Hotel

Purple- Garage

Red-Arena

 

The question is, is the West End site truly big enough to fit a 20-22k arena?

 

The one thing I do like about either site is that they are near some hideous  parking lots that I’ve been wanting to see developed for some time. 

 

Hate the idea of a garage on the corner of central parkway and ezzard charles.
The casino diagram makes a lot more sense for the city...

13 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

Hate the idea of a garage on the corner of central parkway and ezzard charles.
The casino diagram makes a lot more sense for the city...

I’m just assuming they are wanting to put some sort of garage close to the arena. That was just the spot I chose because if the hotel were to go next to TQL then the garage would be just across the street. Could totally go south of it and serve the arena plus city hall. 

1 hour ago, zsnyder said:

Hate the idea of a garage on the corner of central parkway and ezzard charles.
The casino diagram makes a lot more sense for the city...

While I love the idea of utilizing the casino site, it would be very anti-pedestrian surrounded by interstates on two sides, a very heavily trafficked Reading Road, and a private facility (casino). In addition that end of Pendleton is mostly residential. I don't know how you would funnel 15K people there, whereas most other sites would be able to approach from multiple sides. Even the south end of the casino site would be better, but I'm guessing it won't fit there.

On 2/2/2024 at 10:05 PM, ucnum1 said:

Okie dokey.Ill only add Jeff Berding is running his mouth saying this is going to happen.I think the man is a blowhard myself but he has a track record of blowing hot air but actually making things happen.

As I said.

 

“- Local influencers are keeping quiet, but it appears to be an unintended public-relations stunt to generate interest in building a new Cincinnati arena.

It’s unintended because the person or people who called the NHL probably didn’t know Bettman was going to publicly mention Cincinnati.

Serious talks about a new Downtown arena likely can’t start until there’s a prospective anchor tenant. Hence, the call to the NHL. It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s been a call to the NBA, too.

 

- It’s just talk, but so what? Nothing wrong with an influencer – or influencers – calling the NHL and asking for Cincinnati to be considered if the league ever considers expansion.

The idea of an NHL or NBA team coming to Cincinnati is fun to talk about, and it’s certainly something that’s been brought up before. But it’s likely never going to happen. Market size, lack of a modern arena and close proximity to Columbus’ NHL team (and Indianapolis’ NBA franchise) are three strikes against Cincinnati.

 

- Meantime, there’s no public outcry for a new arena and City Hall isn't interested. Yeah, it’d be nice to have a new arena at some point, but at what cost to the taxpayers? There’s no public money for an arena, not even for one-off payments to cover infrastructure-related costs like the city and state did on FC Cincinnati’s stadium.

Well, there shouldn’t be any money if you consider the list of major projects ahead of an arena on the city’s priority list. That list includes basic street and bridge improvements, convention center overhaul, low-income housing developments, convention center hotel and Fort Washington Way capping. Some would argue streetcar expansion should be a priority over an arena.”

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/jason-williams/2024/02/04/market-size-lack-of-modern-arena-make-nhl-long-shot-in-cincinnati-gary-bettman-expansion-talk/72453929007/

11 minutes ago, 646empire said:

As I said.

 

“- Local influencers are keeping quiet, but it appears to be an unintended public-relations stunt to generate interest in building a new Cincinnati arena.

It’s unintended because the person or people who called the NHL probably didn’t know Bettman was going to publicly mention Cincinnati.

Serious talks about a new Downtown arena likely can’t start until there’s a prospective anchor tenant. Hence, the call to the NHL. It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s been a call to the NBA, too.

 

- It’s just talk, but so what? Nothing wrong with an influencer – or influencers – calling the NHL and asking for Cincinnati to be considered if the league ever considers expansion.

The idea of an NHL or NBA team coming to Cincinnati is fun to talk about, and it’s certainly something that’s been brought up before. But it’s likely never going to happen. Market size, lack of a modern arena and close proximity to Columbus’ NHL team (and Indianapolis’ NBA franchise) are three strikes against Cincinnati.

 

- Meantime, there’s no public outcry for a new arena and City Hall isn't interested. Yeah, it’d be nice to have a new arena at some point, but at what cost to the taxpayers? There’s no public money for an arena, not even for one-off payments to cover infrastructure-related costs like the city and state did on FC Cincinnati’s stadium.

Well, there shouldn’t be any money if you consider the list of major projects ahead of an arena on the city’s priority list. That list includes basic street and bridge improvements, convention center overhaul, low-income housing developments, convention center hotel and Fort Washington Way capping. Some would argue streetcar expansion should be a priority over an arena.”

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/jason-williams/2024/02/04/market-size-lack-of-modern-arena-make-nhl-long-shot-in-cincinnati-gary-bettman-expansion-talk/72453929007/

Lmao Jason Williams is one seriously connected local reporter.I loved his articles on the Western & Southern relocating to Charlotte!!! Still waiting on that announcement !This is great news for NHL too Cincinnati if Jason Williams is reporting the opposite of it.Local Influencers are quiet? It's not hard Jason FC Cincinnati ownership contacted the NHL.Real quality article as his standards always are.

Edited February 5, 20241 yr by ucnum1

15 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

Lmao Jason Williams is one seriously connected local reporter.I loved his articles on the Western & Southern relocating to Charlotte!!! Still waiting on that announcement !This is great news for NHL too Cincinnati if Jason Williams is reporting the opposite of it.Local Influencers are quiet? It's not hard Jason FC Cincinnati ownership contacted the NHL.Real quality article as his standards always are.

News flash you don’t need be the best journalist to get the inside scoop on this particular matter. I’ve heard all of this all week from execs in the know and tried to tell you, this article confirms it. FYI go back to MY comments on the Tennis Tournament and you will see I said over and over people I know was confident it was staying and that construction cost of building a tennis center from scratch in Charlotte was going to be too high. But believe what you want.

Edited February 5, 20241 yr by 646empire

Just now, 646empire said:

News flash you don’t need be the best journalist to get the inside scoop on this particular matter. I’ve heard all of this all week from execs in the know and tried to tell you, this article confirms it. FYI go back to MY comments on the Tennis Tournament and you will see I said over and over people I know was confident it’s was staying and that construction cost of building a tennis center from scratch in Charlotte was going to be too high. But believe what you want.

Confirms what? That a local ownership group has had preliminary discussions about bringing a expansion team to the NHL and asked the NHL commissioner to name drop Cincinnati to raise the profile for a new arena?That is one lead pipe balloon theory.A new arena is going to get built in Cincinnati with or without a NHL or NBA franchise.If you want more details Nederlander Corporation  and FC Cincinnati ownership will be forming a private partnership to build the new arena.They didn't want any of this information to be made public quite the opposite.

18 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

Confirms what? That a local ownership group has had preliminary discussions about bringing an expansion team to the NHL and asked the NHL commissioner to name drop Cincinnati to raise the profile for a new arena?That is one lead pipe balloon theory.A new arena is going to get built in Cincinnati with or without a NHL or NBA franchise.If you want more details Nederlander Corporation  and FC Cincinnati ownership will be forming a private partnership to build the new arena.They didn't want any of this information to be made public quite the opposite.

You clearly didn’t read the article and or don’t understand the dynamics or timelines for these kinds of investments. Also a partnership between FCC and the Heritage Arena owners is not breaking news loll. Also everyone knows Cincy is going to build an arena EVENTUALLY but it’s not happening anytime soon is the point and as I said a pro franchise is highly unlikely and will not be apart of an agreement for a new arena. Thats all I have to add. Next up Paycor Stadium Renovation which is going to run 600+ million. One more thing as I said before FCC ownership is fully focused on its 250 million+ mix use development over the next 5 years not an arena.

Edited February 5, 20241 yr by 646empire

It is in FC Cincinnati ownership groups timeline to have a new arena built within 5 years and in their long-term 8-10 year plan to have a new pro franchise in said arena.I like their chances to have a new arena finished  much more so than another pro team but that is their intent for both.The Bengals stadium renovations have nothing to do with a new arena.One will be financed from the County sales tax passed in 1996.The other will be financed with private investment and a TIF district for public infrastructure investment.

 

20 minutes ago, 646empire said:

You clearly didn’t read the article and or don’t understand the dynamics or timelines for these kinds of investments. Also a partnership between FCC and the Heritage Arena owners is not breaking news loll. Also everyone knows Cincy is going to build an arena EVENTUALLY but it’s not happening anytime soon is the point and as I said a pro franchise is highly unlikely and will not be apart of an agreement for a new arena. Thats all I have to add. Next up Paycor Stadium Renovation which is going to run 600+ million. One more thing as I said before FCC ownership is fully focused on its 250 million+ mix use development over the next 5 years not an arena.

So Berding is having a study for a new arena done and is calling the NHL commissioner to maybe build a new arena in 20 years? Right

9 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

It is in FC Cincinnati ownership groups timeline to have a new arena built within 5 years and in their long-term 8-10 year plan to have a new pro franchise in said arena.I like their chances to have a new arena finished  much more so than another pro team but that is their intent for both.The Bengals stadium renovations have nothing to do with a new arena.One will be financed from the County sales tax passed in 1996.The other will be financed with private investment and a TIF district for public infrastructure investment.

 

These large projects have a sequence which is what you’re failing to realize and was hinted at in the article. Public dollars WILL be requested for a new arena period what form that takes is TBD. What I’m saying is the Paycor Renovation is the next big sports project that will be tackled by the local governments not an arena. This conversation is exhausting. 

6 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

So Berding is having a study for a new arena done and is calling the NHL commissioner to maybe build a new arena in 20 years? Right

Studies are done alllllllll the time and sit on a shelf until financing and public interest is in the right place to move forward many times a study has to be re-done after so many years because market conditions/needs change. 20 years? Where did you get 2 decades? lolllll im going to let you fight with yourself now lol.

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

These large projects have a sequence which is what you’re failing to realize and was hinted at in the article. Public dollars WILL be requested for a new arena period what form that takes is TBD. What I’m saying is the Paycor Renovation is the next big sports project that will be tackled by the local governments not an arena. This conversation is exhausting. 

It is going to be in the form of a TIF district.These discussions have been taking place for nearly 2 years informally between the city and FC.Jeffrey Skoll and Meg Whitman would be the names to remember and thank if this actually gets done.

Edited February 5, 20241 yr by ucnum1

4 hours ago, 646empire said:

Studies are done alllllllll the time and sit on a shelf until financing and public interest is in the right place to move forward many times a study has to be re-done after so many years because market conditions/needs change. 20 years? Where did you get 2 decades? lolllll im going to let you fight with yourself now lol.

Again this effort to gain Cincinnati another pro franchise has some serious investors behind it.Meg Whitman and Jeffrey Skoll plus a few others.

Who isn't in the "new major franchise to Cincinnati" camp? I want this all to be true.

16 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

Who isn't in the "new major franchise to Cincinnati" camp? I want this all to be true.

Jeffrey Skoll is a serious addition to a viable expansion bid.He is a partner in a sports equity fund that already has minority shared in multiple NHL franchises.That and he's worth billions.Again if people think this wont be a serious bid for a new franchise in Cincinnati okie dokey.

Would we be the only city our size to have 4 major league teams? 

I've mentioned that this is my main concern with trying to get an NHL team. I get it that Cincinnati's metro area and media market doesn't include Dayton, Lexington, Louisville, etc. But you're asking a lot of people to potentially buy tickets for NFL, MLB, MLS and NHL. That's not counting Xavier and UC sports. But, this is a sports town and people will show out if the team is competitive. You couldn't get tickets for a reasonable price when the Reds were on their run last year

I have no strong opinion one way or the other regarding an NHL team, but the Bengals/Reds pull fans from huge swaths of Ohio and Kentucky. Below are the Radio Networks:

 

 

Edited February 7, 20241 yr by cincydave8

I think a NHL or even a NBA team will draw well in Cincinnati not both though.The metro population in attracting a franchise does not apply to Cincinnati nearly as much.There are decades of built in history of regional support for both the Bengals and Reds.I think a Cincinnati NHL team would draw much better than Columbus does.

3 hours ago, ucnum1 said:

There are decades of built in history of regional support for both the Bengals and Reds.I think a Cincinnati NHL team would draw much better than Columbus does.

 

If we're going by history, that's inaccurate.  Pre-Burrow, the Bengals had the lowest home attendance percentage with 71% in the NFL.  The Reds were league-average attendance but the Reds have always been more popular than the Bengals, generally.  So no, I don't think Cincinnati would draw much better than Columbus (the Blue Jackets are like 90's Bengals if you don't know hockey).  Unless the UDF Boys & Co draw a FC Cincinnati-style NHL team and are competitive from the jump.  

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

 

If we're going by history, that's inaccurate.  Pre-Burrow, the Bengals had the lowest home attendance percentage with 71% in the NFL.  The Reds were league-average attendance but the Reds have always been more popular than the Bengals, generally.  So no, I don't think Cincinnati would draw much better than Columbus (the Blue Jackets are like 90's Bengals if you don't know hockey).  Unless the UDF Boys & Co draw a FC Cincinnati-style NHL team and are competitive from the jump.  

The Bengals had pretty good attendance during the Marvin years which included 7 playoff appearances.  It fell off a cliff when the team got bad.  Reds topped 2 million fans back when they were last competitive.  The fans come out when the teams are competitive and don't go when the teams are bad, which is how most cities operate. 

There's about 9 million people within a 100 miles of downtown Cincinnati. That's more than Dallas.