21 minutes ago, 646empire said:

No offense...but here's a little personal dig.

For somebody relying so heavily on the study to make your biggest points, it's strange that you're pushing the site that actually scored the lowest on said study. And speaking of the study, 3 stars out of 5 tells me there's development, but it's not booming. Great, that seems on-script for Cincinnati. I'm not expecting a miracle by any stretch of the imagination.

As I've said elsewhere, the casino site is an absolute bottleneck, and Pendleton really doesn't deserve an arena, let alone a casino, foisted on its relatively intimate scale. The west side of the basin is, if the desire is there, essentially a blank slate, and the only place to grow if the basin continues to repopulate.

I don't particularly care for the arena discussion in and of itself. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me.  However, if there's going to be one, then I have a strong opinion, and  in this case, it's driven more by what I believe are the bad choices. There's definitely no rose-tint in looking at the whole thing from a defensive position.

13 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

For somebody relying so heavily on the study to make your biggest points, it's strange that you're pushing the site that actually scored the lowest on said study. And speaking of the study, 3 stars out of 5 tells me there's development, but it's not booming. Great, that seems on-script for Cincinnati. I'm not expecting a miracle by any stretch of the imagination.

As I've said elsewhere, the casino site is an absolute bottleneck, and Pendleton really doesn't deserve an arena, let alone a casino, foisted on its relatively intimate scale. The west side of the basin is, if the desire is there, essentially a blank slate, and the only place to grow if the basin continues to repopulate.

I don't particularly care for the arena discussion in and of itself. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me.  However, if there's going to be one, then I have a strong opinion, and  in this case, it's driven more by what I believe are the bad choices. There's definitely no rose-tint in looking at the whole thing from a defensive position.

I never said “Here’s a little personal dig” don’t fabricate a quote, that isn’t right. Im not all that happy with any of the sites but the convention center land should be saved for better uses not an arena which is my main point. The reasons I’ve listed are examples of why it’s not all that great for an arena anyway.

Edited December 9, 2024Dec 9 by 646empire

13 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I never said “Here’s a little personal dig” don’t fabricate a quote, that isn’t right. Im not all that happy with any of the sites but the convention center land should be saved for better uses not an arena which is my main point. The reasons I’ve listed are examples of why it’s not all that great for an arena anyway.

 

What better uses? It's highway-adjacent, so residential is not preferable. Office would be logical, but there is little to no demand that would not already be absorbed by other options.

 

I'm not a fan of the city having so many big entertainment sports venues and would love to see mixed-use there. However, if they want an arena, let's limit the damage to places like the West End and maximize the opportunity for more challenging highway-adjacent sites like this one.

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

Dual use with the convention center is going to be VERY RARE. Very few events/conventions would need/want to use both buildings. And using both simultaneously would be very expensive. The only event I can see Cincinnati hosting that this setup could be a real plus would be The Republican National Convention.

 

Yeah this is also my biggest hangup. Arenas don't host the same things that convention centers host. Building it adjacent to the casino makes more sense IMO. Vegas has several arenas either built in to the casinos (MGM/Orleans) or right next door (T-Mobile Arena). Also, going to local businesses near a convention center arena would possibly be a little harder since you would have to walk through/around the convention center. At least when you're walking through the casino, there are things to eat/drink. Also an arena on that end of town might help spur some more businesses in an area of OTR that doesn't have as much going on.

49 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

Yeah this is also my biggest hangup. Arenas don't host the same things that convention centers host. Building it adjacent to the casino makes more sense IMO. Vegas has several arenas either built in to the casinos (MGM/Orleans) or right next door (T-Mobile Arena). Also, going to local businesses near a convention center arena would possibly be a little harder since you would have to walk through/around the convention center. At least when you're walking through the casino, there are things to eat/drink. Also an arena on that end of town might help spur some more businesses in an area of OTR that doesn't have as much going on.

Also from what the other poster is saying and to my surprise the buildings wouldn’t actually even be connected I was ignorant in thinking this proposed site would be directly west of the Convention Center and create a mega hosting complex but nope lol. This proposed arena site would sit just south-west of the convention center?. Contiguous space is the name of the game and if they aren’t really connected that kills a critical point. 
 

I need to do more research, admittedly I haven’t been paying much attention to this because it’s possibly several years away from even a ground breaking let alone an opening. Bigger fish to fry right now including the hotel and bengals stadium.

4 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

At least when you're walking through the casino...

The idea of walking through a casino as a primary or secondary means of transit to another place doesn't give you the ick? 

So much is conjecture at this time. They could build the arena SW of the Convention center but also expand the center west to meet it. I’m pretty sure Indy convention center is connected to their stadium. They do quite a few sports events between the two. My opinion having the new arena be adjacent in some way just provides more options for large events. Maybe it’s only a couple a year but that’s more than we are getting now, which is none. 

tv is dead, educational tv is deader.. put the arena on Westend CP

Cincinnati wants people to weigh in on Town Center Garage redevelopment

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 10, 2024

 

Cincinnati officials want public input on the future of a West End site that has been identified by a recent study as one that could host a new arena.

 

The city has launched a survey on the Town Center Garage, which is located in the northwest corner of 12th Street and Central Parkway.

 

MORE

17 hours ago, zsnyder said:

The idea of walking through a casino as a primary or secondary means of transit to another place doesn't give you the ick? 

 

Not really, no. I've gone to a few events in Vegas and this was never a problem. At least with the casino you can stop off in a bar or restaurant and there's something to do pre/post-postgame. Plus that particular area of the city could use more foot traffic for local businesses which and arena could help provide to Pendleton and Prospect Hill. 

WCET estimates moving costs for a new arena at up to $50M, explores symphony partnership

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 13, 2024

 

The cost to move WCET-TV’s studios from its current West End site to make way for a new arena is likely $40 million to $50 million, its CEO told the Business Courier in an interview, adding that it’s not a cost the public television station will bear.

 

Nevertheless, the station, which is a part of PBS and an education resource for adults and children throughout Greater Cincinnati, would be open to considering a move if someone else paid for it, CET CEO Kitty Lensman said.

 

MORE

So, would there be no concerts on nights that Music Hall has events? I imagine the acoustic concerns are real on this site.

42 minutes ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

WCET estimates moving costs for a new arena at up to $50M, explores symphony partnership

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 13, 2024

 

The cost to move WCET-TV’s studios from its current West End site to make way for a new arena is likely $40 million to $50 million, its CEO told the Business Courier in an interview, adding that it’s not a cost the public television station will bear.

 

Nevertheless, the station, which is a part of PBS and an education resource for adults and children throughout Greater Cincinnati, would be open to considering a move if someone else paid for it, CET CEO Kitty Lensman said.

 

MORE

Arena or not, maybe WCET could be a good fit for the main library north building. If I recall correctly from discussions before the main library renovations, there was extra space available on the upper floors (not sure current status)

UC is playing UD this upcoming Friday at Riverfront Coliseum:

https://seatgeek.com/cincinnati-bearcats-mens-basketball-tickets/ncaa-basketball/2024-12-20-8-30-pm/17004332?aid=34&pid=17513747270&gid=141427093321&rid=dsa-2245261375353&dt=c&ap=&adId=604246269570&loc_interest=9060257&loc_physical=9015699&n=g&mt=&ext=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmfq6BhAsEiwAX1jsZ8TP8mABMWShdXm-MvIIM4daSB3r1q5pYuytp5LX1Jykw6C3JPtFyxoCtcMQAvD_BwE

 

I expect the Coliseum-haters to post the hateful yelp reviews - I wanna hear all about those narrow concourses.  

9 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

I expect the Coliseum-haters to post the hateful yelp reviews - I wanna hear all about those narrow concourses

Man, out of all the things to criticize in the local arena discourse, you’re hyper-focused on the one thing seemingly everyone agrees upon as an issue with the current arena. Hell, even a moderately attended Cyclones game makes the concourses (and restrooms) a crowded mess. This longstanding complaint/drawback/criticism of the building certainly isn’t new or coming out of nowhere. It was even brought up as having not been “resolved” in the 1996 renovations. 

9 hours ago, Lazarus said:

UC is playing UD this upcoming Friday at Riverfront Coliseum:

https://seatgeek.com/cincinnati-bearcats-mens-basketball-tickets/ncaa-basketball/2024-12-20-8-30-pm/17004332?aid=34&pid=17513747270&gid=141427093321&rid=dsa-2245261375353&dt=c&ap=&adId=604246269570&loc_interest=9060257&loc_physical=9015699&n=g&mt=&ext=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmfq6BhAsEiwAX1jsZ8TP8mABMWShdXm-MvIIM4daSB3r1q5pYuytp5LX1Jykw6C3JPtFyxoCtcMQAvD_BwE

 

I expect the Coliseum-haters to post the hateful yelp reviews - I wanna hear all about those narrow concourses.  

 

Nobody is buying tickets for this game (even though it's a top-25 matchup) because of the venue.

 

Downright shame that this yearly game can't be alternated between two of the best home environments around. 

Edited December 16, 2024Dec 16 by tonyt3524

56 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

Nobody is buying tickets for this game (even though it's a top-25 matchup) because of the venue.

Im not sure where you got this from. Tickets have sold very well. 

11 hours ago, Lazarus said:

I expect the Coliseum-haters to post the hateful yelp reviews - I wanna hear all about those narrow concourses.  

 

Concourses are obvious, but the basketball experience there is not good.

31 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Im not sure where you got this from. Tickets have sold very well. 

 

 I don't consider this very well when the game has been on sale for months. Although it was much worse last week.

Edited December 16, 2024Dec 16 by tonyt3524

Beyond the venue, they are not selling as well as they should because the exorbitant prices they are charging. Luckily it is a short drive for UD fans, who are notorious for supporting their program very well. I do expect it closer to a sellout though, the crosstown shootout just happened, so now UC fans should be ready to focus on this game.

1 hour ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

Beyond the venue, they are not selling as well as they should because the exorbitant prices they are charging. Luckily it is a short drive for UD fans, who are notorious for supporting their program very well. I do expect it closer to a sellout though, the crosstown shootout just happened, so now UC fans should be ready to focus on this game.

 

Yeah I agree completely. They did not price this game well.

2 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

 I don't consider this very well when the game has been on sale for months. Although it was much worse last week.

You do know the seats available are in blue? Call me crazy but that’s looking like a great crowd. Looking at the map it’s mostly just upper bowl that’s available. They should be pushing a sellout by Friday. The Dayton crowd showed up in masses last year.

Those are the absolute worst seats for any event in that venue. Basketball and hockey, those seats suck but for things like wrestling and concerts, you might as well be on another planet. Because of the shallow slope of the seats, you're even further from the court than in a more modern arena. This should be a home-and-home with UC and UD but I get the feeling that UC won't agree to that.

 

16 hours ago, Lazarus said:

UC is playing UD this upcoming Friday at Riverfront Coliseum:

https://seatgeek.com/cincinnati-bearcats-mens-basketball-tickets/ncaa-basketball/2024-12-20-8-30-pm/17004332?aid=34&pid=17513747270&gid=141427093321&rid=dsa-2245261375353&dt=c&ap=&adId=604246269570&loc_interest=9060257&loc_physical=9015699&n=g&mt=&ext=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmfq6BhAsEiwAX1jsZ8TP8mABMWShdXm-MvIIM4daSB3r1q5pYuytp5LX1Jykw6C3JPtFyxoCtcMQAvD_BwE

 

I expect the Coliseum-haters to post the hateful yelp reviews - I wanna hear all about those narrow concourses.  

 

This has been an issue for nearly 30 years. Not to mention the fact that the HBC has to bring in porta-potties for bigger events because there aren't enough bathrooms. 

Edited December 16, 2024Dec 16 by JaceTheAce41

3 hours ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

Beyond the venue, they are not selling as well as they should because the exorbitant prices they are charging.

 

To be fair, no one in this market cares about college basketball nor would they support an NBA team. None of that nonsense is popular with the locals after we got screwed by the International Basketball League folding. Cincinnati Stuff forever (Slammers, never).

/s (maybe)

Quote

To be fair, no one in this market cares about college basketball nor would they support an NBA team. None of that nonsense is popular with the locals after we got screwed by the International Basketball League folding. Cincinnati Stuff forever (Slammers, never).

I have to respectfully disagree on this market not caring about college basketball.  UC and XU enjoy strong support, and other people in the region pull hard for other nearby schools (UK, NKU, Indiana, Dayton).

 

 

5 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Those are the absolute worst seats for any event in that venue. Basketball and hockey, those seats suck but for things like wrestling and concerts, you might as well be on another planet. Because of the shallow slope of the seats, you're even further from the court than in a more modern arena. This should be a home-and-home with UC and UD but I get the feeling that UC won't agree to that.

 

 

This has been an issue for nearly 30 years. Not to mention the fact that the HBC has to bring in porta-potties for bigger events because there aren't enough bathrooms. 

 

This game is held at Heritage solely for NIL reasons. You have an outside controller who can feed money back to the players. If it was a home and home that could not happen. Welcome to the new age of college ( really quasi pro) sports. 

6 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Quote

 

I have to respectfully disagree on this market not caring about college basketball.

No worries, I was being sarcastic. I don’t think many actually remember the “Cincinnati Stuff.” 😉

17 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

This should be a home-and-home with UC and UD but I get the feeling that UC won't agree to that.

 

UC would definitely agree to that, but it "has" to be held off-campus because they wanted it to be tied to NIL money.

7 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 I don’t think many actually remember the “Cincinnati Stuff.” 😉

They played at the Firstar center, which was a much better arena than Heritage, but perhaps not as great as The Crown.

42 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

They played at the Firstar center, which was a much better arena than Heritage, but perhaps not as great as The Crown.

🎶 “Down at the Crown (down at the Crown), DOWNTOWN AT THE CROWN.” 🎶 

10 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

No worries, I was being sarcastic. I don’t think many actually remember the “Cincinnati Stuff.” 😉

Was going to say. That's crazy talk. LOL.

Nederlander: ‘Not looking to create a battle,’ but moving arena from riverfront would be ‘devastating’

 

A senior Nederlander Co. executive said the company is not looking to battle over the location of a new arena but predicted that building it away from the riverfront would hurt small businesses at the Banks.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/12/21/nederlander-new-arena-heritage-bank-site-study.html

 

Do events at Heritage bring a lot of business to The Banks?

4 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

Do events at Heritage bring a lot of business to The Banks?

 

Yes. But I imagine events on West 4th would bring a similar crowd.

15 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

19 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

Do events at Heritage bring a lot of business to The Banks?

 

Yes. But I imagine events on West 4th would bring a similar crowd.

western CP site would bring more people. heritage is more of a WWE/Roller Derby/3rd-tier ice hockey crowd. West 4th would be roided-up/puffy jacket/drunk crowd, and the Westend CP would be more of a tuxedoed/bejeweled chauffeured affair. "Pip Pip cherrio".

23 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

Do events at Heritage bring a lot of business to The Banks?

 

No, there is less business at The Banks because there are fewer people parked in its parking garage during large events. 

4 hours ago, RJohnson said:

heritage is more of a WWE/Roller Derby/3rd-tier ice hockey crowd

Uh… what do you think is coming to a potential, new arena regardless of its location?

4 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Uh… what do you think is coming to a potential, new arena regardless of its location?

Westend CP would be more of a tuxedoed/bejeweled chauffeured affair. "Pip Pip cherrio".

8 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

Westend CP would be more of a tuxedoed/bejeweled chauffeured affair. "Pip Pip cherrio".

At a sports arena? 

20 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

20 hours ago, RJohnson said:

Westend CP would be more of a tuxedoed/bejeweled chauffeured affair. "Pip Pip cherrio".

At a sports arena?

they be ballers my dude.

Banks businesses on a new arena: ‘We want it. We want to fight for it’

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 8, 2025

 

The businesses at the Banks want a new main arena for Cincinnati to be built at the current site of the Heritage Bank Center and plan to press elected officials to consider the site weeks after a study tried to rule it out.

 

“We want it. We want to fight for it,” said Jim Moehring, the owner of the Holy Grail Tavern & Grille, which sits next to Great American Ball Park.

 

Moehring said he believes a new arena can fit on the current one’s site and will require less overall infrastructure to be built. A study spearheaded by the Cincinnati Regional Chamber said it will be too difficult to build at the existing location.

 

MORE

They make some good points, the infrastructure already exists down there and the Banks' businesses are already focused on those kind of events. The Banks, especially in it's unfinished state, doesn't have the year round foot traffic for businesses to thrive, and while the Brady probably helps it's not nearly as large as the arena so doesn't pull as many people through.  "during slow winter months when Great American Ball Park and Paycor Stadium are not active, arena events are an essential lifeline"

Maybe they should actually finish the banks and build more housing/hotel/office there so they aren't so reliant on events?  The only way the arena doesn't end up by TQL stadium is if someone besides the FCC owners step up to help pay for it.  I'll believe that happens when I see it.  

Edited January 8Jan 8 by Cincy513

23 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Maybe they should actually finish the banks and build more housing/hotel/office there so they aren't so reliant on events?  The only way the arena doesn't end up by TQL stadium is if someone besides the FCC owners step up to help pay for it.  I'll believe that happens when I see it.  

Agree. Is another hotel even on the drawing board for TB? The district should have aimed for three hotels. Those are in demand right now, no?

 

1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

so they aren't so reliant on events

Residential towers with views into GABP on the Heritage site.

Edited January 8Jan 8 by zsnyder

What if we built the arena on the unfinished part of the banks then built some Miamiesque condo towers on the site of HBC?

 

a good rule of thumb for space required by an arena without “limited concourses” is a 400 x 400 ft square.
 

It won’t fit on the remaining Banks street grid. 
 

it would fit on the Bengals practice fields. That would be about 0.25 mile from the convention center and about 0.5 mile from the Banks Freedom Way strip of bars/restaurants by GABP.

Edited January 9Jan 9 by thebillshark

Yeah but the Bengals want the county to spend a billion dollars on a practice facility.

Granted I don't think that will happen. My hope is now that the Bengals move out of town and we can build an arena on the stadium site.

35 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Yeah but the Bengals want the county to spend a billion dollars on a practice facility.

Granted I don't think that will happen. My hope is now that the Bengals move out of town and we can build an arena on the stadium site.

NFL is head and shoulders above rest of major league sports in terms of popularity and getting the city national recognition/impressions. If the Cincinnati area wants teams for these reasons NFL and the Bengals is by far the most effective to have. Additionally I think building a new football stadium elsewhere in the region would just be wasteful. The stadium looks great architecturally and positioned in its current location 

 

Edit: however I was not impressed at all with the plan for the stadium renovation/practice fields pitched to the county recently, seemed huge cost for minimal benefits 

Edited January 9Jan 9 by thebillshark

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/01/10/new-arena-banks-mayor-aftab-berding-no-location.html

 

Mayor speaks about new arena location, key quote to me is this: "Asked by moderator Doug Bolton where the arena should be, Pureval said, “Let me answer your question with a question: How do we pay for an arena?”"  To me this pretty clearly sums up why it's probably going to end up at the West End site because FCC/Berding are the only ownership group who have offered to pay for it, so unless Nederlander ponies up the conversation is likely over.