On 1/27/2022 at 1:06 PM, Troeros2 said:

 We have the largest metro area population in all of Ohio. 

Interesting, so I guess this is actually true from an metropolitan statistical area, but just barely. I've always heard the stats from the combined statistical area and Cincy is third. Thanks Wikipedia. 

 

Anyway, I think you have to a major tenant to support public dollars for an arena. Even then it's not a guarantee, look at the funding mess that is Nationwide Arena. 

9 minutes ago, 17thState said:

combined statistical area

Washington Courthouse is in the Columbus CSA. Not really a good metric for urban form.

Edited February 4, 20223 yr by zsnyder

2 hours ago, zsnyder said:

Washington Courthouse is in the Columbus CSA. Not really a good metric for urban form.

 

To be fair, that's a lot closer than Cincinnati to Maysville (also CSA).  But agreed, CSA is not a good metric for urban form.

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

 

To be fair, that's a lot closer than Cincinnati to Maysville (also CSA).  But agreed, CSA is not a good metric for urban form.

For sure, I used WCH because people are likely more familiar with the distances involved.
and I think the Cincinnati CSA only includes Maysville because of outdated Clooney-trips-in-and-out data.

On 2/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, carnevalem said:

How much is the land under Heritage Bank Arena worth? If a new arena were to be built in a different location, it would be a great location for some massive apartment / condo / hotel towers. I dream of a tower with Wrigleyville-esque outdoor seating in the left field gap.

 

That's the part I'm excited about too. Would be cool to see a luxury apartment or condo tower there.

*Cough* Former Arena Site Below *Cough*

 

I was really disappointed when I saw that the outfield at GABP would open up to Kentucky (with a view of our most generic bridge) and not Cincinnati. It distresses me more now that Ovation is going up. Getting a tower or towers on the left field side in place of the coliseum would make up for that to a great extent, as long as something truly unique happened in the interaction between the buildings and the ballpark.

On 2/4/2022 at 9:55 AM, zsnyder said:

For sure, I used WCH because people are likely more familiar with the distances involved.
and I think the Cincinnati CSA only includes Maysville because of outdated Clooney-trips-in-and-out data.

 

I have family in WCH and anecdotally it seems like the culture is more associated with Cincinnati. If they talk about going into the city they are referring to Cincinnati. Just an observation.

To the Washington Court House discussion… I’m guessing it’s somewhat situational. Like people that live off US 22 probably gravitate towards Cincy because it’s easy to cut down to Wilmington and take 73 to the highway if they don’t feel like going up to 35, and people that live east off 62 probably gravitate towards Columbus because it’s easy to head north and end up in Grove City

…Anyways, I hope that Cincinnati doesn’t build a new urban stadium that demolishes historic buildings in the Basin similar to TQL, especially if the stadium is really just built on spec. I’m glad FC Cincy is there and ended up going that route vs. more suburban sites in Oakley, etc. but they also were able to build on a site using a majority pre-cleared space.

Would it be possible to somehow redesign and repurpose the convention center to have an indoor arena? If that’s a no, the site at the corner of Reading and Liberty seems like a solid pick, and has been a proposed site for a stadium for years


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The casino would be a good site for an arena as having the arena host a sports book might also offset some of the cost. It's been brought up before but the tri-state is filled with mid-sized venues and there's no tenant for a larger venue.  UC electing to renovate 5/3 rather than permanently move to US Bank arena really hampered things. NKU building a new on-campus arena also gives NKY little incentive to build an arena.

 

My thought is if the casino isn't the site of a new arena it might be nice to have one at the IRS site in Covington. While NKU wouldn't play there, it might be a good venue for the Cyclones and might push NKY to also expand the streetcar across the river. An arena-district at the IRS site would be great.

I has proposed the idea of an arena in the core West End area on some of those abandoned blocks.  I do think , though, that given there is no major sports Tennant, the best chance for  a 20k arena space would be as part of a convention center complex.  In looking at downtown at the current area, why can't we demo the existing convention space and build an area on the current space into 6th street and into the parking garages on north edge of 6th.  Yes this would permnanatly block 6th street but is that really that much of an issue? You could build a connecting sky walk over 5th and additional more traditional convention space on the current parking lot on 4th/5th.  A new hotel can be built on the site of the Millennium.  

 

Basically you'd have a new convention complex that includes a flexible arena space that also can connect to a more traditional/smaller convention space.  

 

10 hours ago, CincyNY said:

Yes this would permnanatly block 6th street but is that really that much of an issue?

Sixth street is far too important to western hills/interstate access with the current configuration of highways downtown. I mean, one of those highways is called the 6th street expressway.

Ripping out the convention center for an arena is an interesting idea, makes decent sense to me as Cincy is not a big “convention” town like Indy or Columbus.

Would it be possible to just build over top of Sixth?

It’s all pie in the sky anyways, and depending on the design it could be an effective combo center


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Berding: It's time to build a new arena

 

 

Jeff Berding, the FC Cincinnati co-CEO and chairman of the Cincinnati USA Convention and Visitors Bureau, said Friday that the region needs to decide soon whether to build a new arena to replace the Heritage Bank Center on the riverfront.

 

Berding, speaking at the CVB's annual meeting, said he is in favor of it.

 

“It’s time we have a modern arena in Cincinnati," Berding said. "By the time we build it, it will have been 50 years since we first built Riverfront Coliseum."

 

Riverfront Coliseum was the original name of Heritage Bank Arena.

 

Cont

 

^ Yes, but I still say putting that money toward putting a roof/dome over Paul Brown would be a more efficient/effective use of the money and could accomplish the same goals while providing a permanent tenant. It may hurt on some indoor concerts but TQL can really step up the game on some of those concert series. 

 

It is hard to justify an arena without a permanent Major League tenant paying Major League prices. Let's steal the Blue Jackets from Columbus and then we can talk about the new arena

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ Yes, but I still say putting that money toward putting a roof/dome over Paul Brown would be a more efficient/effective use of the money and could accomplish the same goals while providing a permanent tenant. It may hurt on some indoor concerts but TQL can really step up the game on some of those concert series. 

Arena tours won't just play a stadium because it's the only building in town...   You would have to also install a rigging grid and curtaining system to make a football stadium more intimate.   There are only a couple stadiums in North America where I've seen this attempted (Alamodome in San Antonio, and Skydome in Toronto), and neither are particularly liked by artist, crews or fans.  

 

As for stadium level acts, they generally only tour in the summer, and don't really care if the crowd is covered or not.  

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Arena tours won't just play a stadium because it's the only building in town...   You would have to also install a rigging grid and curtaining system to make a football stadium more intimate.   There are only a couple stadiums in North America where I've seen this attempted (Alamodome in San Antonio, and Skydome in Toronto), and neither are particularly liked by artist, crews or fans.  

 

As for stadium level acts, they generally only tour in the summer, and don't really care if the crowd is covered or not.  

I get that. it does not solve all the problems. I just think we could get a bigger bang for the buck and more efficiencies with a dome over PBS and then some enhancements at TQL to attract some more acts looking for that 20k venue space.  Again, this is not ideal either and does not solve all the problems i am just looking at it from a best utilization of resources. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I get that. it does not solve all the problems. I just think we could get a bigger bang for the buck and more efficiencies with a dome over PBS and then some enhancements at TQL to attract some more acts looking for that 20k venue space.  Again, this is not ideal either and does not solve all the problems i am just looking at it from a best utilization of resources. 

I know I've pointed this out on the Cleveland FIrst Energy Stadium thread before-- pick a domed NFL stadium in a similar sized market, like Indy for instance.  Great modern stadium with connection to convention center.   Then check out their event calendar:  https://www.lucasoilstadium.com/events-tickets/

 

They have a weekend of monster trucks, some marching band championships (state capitol) and Def Leppard/Motley Crue in August (which would play PBS outdoors).    And Indy is a bad example because it is the home of the NCAA so many college events seems to steer there. 

 

The point is there just isn't that many events that need this big of a space.  

 

 

45 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I know I've pointed this out on the Cleveland FIrst Energy Stadium thread before-- pick a domed NFL stadium in a similar sized market, like Indy for instance.  Great modern stadium with connection to convention center.   Then check out their event calendar:  https://www.lucasoilstadium.com/events-tickets/

 

They have a weekend of monster trucks, some marching band championships (state capitol) and Def Leppard/Motley Crue in August (which would play PBS outdoors).    And Indy is a bad example because it is the home of the NCAA so many college events seems to steer there. 

 

The point is there just isn't that many events that need this big of a space.  

 

 

I get that, and I do not disagree with your point, and I am fully realistic that putting a roof on PBS will not likely lead to a super bowl in town (it didn’t for St. Louis which offers a better case study than indy) 

however, what it offers is flexibility and some additional uses. 
not offers flexibility because it provides a convention center space for the So baptists to have their convention while also allowing space at a domed pbs to host the car show. 
maybe we get a final 4 our political convention (both parties have used domes in the past). No, it will not help with concerts too much for the reasons you cite above, but it is coming  From the perspective that one, we have a small convention center that needs more convention space, two, The location of the convention center is landlocked and the most preferred direction of expansion is blocked by the interstate and there are a lot of hoops to jump through before you can effectively expand that direction. Third, PBS is three blocks from the convention center and it is not unrealistic that a large convention could effectively utilize both areas and the space in between be developed as a convention type district. Fourth, it would not involve acquiring additional parcels and destroying blocks of downtown to create such expansion. Five, there could be some type of joint financing between the hotel tax and sales tax To accomplish such car which would be an easier lift then financing a state of the art arena with no tenant.

 

I agree, this is not the ideal situation, where you have a state of the art arena state of the art convention center and state of the art stadium, but it could create some economies of scale and efficiencies that will allow us To be competitive in areas that we are not currently competitive in but the sports concerts and convention wise

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

while also allowing space at a domed pbs to host the car show.

 
 a small convention center that needs more convention space 

 

 

Stadiums are not great venues for car shows or conventions.   Both require closely focused lights, sound and visuals, which is why you see the trim height in most convention centers around 25-30'.   You wouldn't want to have to rig a piece of steel 285' to the upper roof to hang one light to highlight your Dodge Charger display.  

Please do not put a dome on Paul Brown. Outdoor Football is nice.

14 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Stadiums are not great venues for car shows or conventions.   Both require closely focused lights, sound and visuals, which is why you see the trim height in most convention centers around 25-30'.   You wouldn't want to have to rig a piece of steel 285' to the upper roof to hang one light to highlight your Dodge Charger display.  

If we are going to build a new arena, I would say that it should be built on the Covington side of the river where are the old IRS center is. Given that it appears a that public financing is going to be needed, it should not fall solely on the taxpayers of Hamilton county, let the taxpayers in Northern Kentucky do their fair share, build it on the Kentucky side

 

28 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

If we are going to build a new arena, I would say that it should be built on the Covington side of the river where are the old IRS center is. Given that it appears a that public financing is going to be needed, it should not fall solely on the taxpayers of Hamilton county, let the taxpayers in Northern Kentucky do their fair share, build it on the Kentucky side

 

Who is we though? based off the first few pages of this thread and the business courier article FC group is driving the train here. No one else has both the desire and the means to do it, so it’s going to be what and where they want. 
 

perhaps it will be structured like the soccer stadium where the arena is privately financed and the supporting infrastructure is publicly financed

21 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Who is we though? based off the first few pages of this thread and the business courier article FC group is driving the train here. No one else has both the desire and the means to do it, so it’s going to be what and where they want. 
 

perhaps it will be structured like the soccer stadium where the arena is privately financed and the supporting infrastructure is publicly financed

If in fact FC is driving the bus, they certainly will have a lot of say in the matter but, economically, billionaires aside, they still need to make the numbers work too. Without a major tenant it is hard. 
even with FC driving the bus, there is bound to be some ask from the taxpayers. Don’t know how much. It would be a good time for Kentucky to step up on this

Who is "FC"?

47 minutes ago, Cygnus said:

Who is "FC"?

The fc cincinnati ownership group

7 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

If we are going to build a new arena, I would say that it should be built on the Covington side of the river where are the old IRS center is. Given that it appears a that public financing is going to be needed, it should not fall solely on the taxpayers of Hamilton county, let the taxpayers in Northern Kentucky do their fair share, build it on the Kentucky side

 

I guess with all my arguments for not covering PBS I have left out that yes, I think Cincinnati should build a new arena.  

 

I'm from Cleveland so I have no argument against the NKY site.     

 

Here in Cleveland we do have a world-class arena, and it has lead to some pretty significant events including the GOP national convention. 

A lot of equating Jeff Berding's personal beliefs here with FC Cincinnati as an organization. Two different things.

6 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I guess with all my arguments for not covering PBS I have left out that yes, I think Cincinnati should build a new arena.  

 

I'm from Cleveland so I have no argument against the NKY site.     

 

Here in Cleveland we do have a world-class arena, and it has lead to some pretty significant events including the GOP national convention. 

The one big thing Cleveland has that Cincinnati does not is a major tenant for their arena. The cavs make it easy to finance an arena like that. You don’t get the rents on concerts or minor league sports that you would get for a major league team or large university. 
 

yes cincy needs a new arena. The bigger question is who is going to pay the $500 million or so to build it.

On 3/26/2022 at 11:23 PM, DEPACincy said:

A lot of equating Jeff Berding's personal beliefs here with FC Cincinnati as an organization. Two different things.

It is sometimes easier for the sake of things to refer to Berding as FC, but you are right. 

I thought I saw somewhere or someone indicated there were some groups working behind the scenes on an arena proposal and indicated something about the FC people being involved or talking about doing something near TQL? 

On 3/26/2022 at 10:44 AM, Brutus_buckeye said:

If we are going to build a new arena, I would say that it should be built on the Covington side of the river where are the old IRS center is. Given that it appears a that public financing is going to be needed, it should not fall solely on the taxpayers of Hamilton county, let the taxpayers in Northern Kentucky do their fair share, build it on the Kentucky side

 

 

Perfect, you can have the ovation developers run it and design it to look like a bunch of tall townhouses. 

2 minutes ago, RealAdamP said:

 

Perfect, you can have the ovation developers run it and design it to look like a bunch of tall townhouses. 

Arena's never look pretty. It will always be a large box in one form or another and take up a large city block. 

 

As long as it has access - You can walk to it from downtown (albeit a hike, it is walkable. There is Tank/bus service built in there already and some parking infrastructure.

It has amenities. - Urban arenas are much better because there are bars and other businesses there that can compliment things before and after games. NKY offers this (suburban arenas and stadiums are awful when surrounded by an ocean of parking because there is nowhere to meet before/after the game)

 

I will say that I think the old IRS site could be a good fit for such a project. It would accomplish a couple of goals. 

1) NKY has talked about wanting to expand their convention center. An arena could be part of that project and convention bonds could be used as a financing source.

2) It is a large enough area to fit it in. 

3) It would fit pretty well into the Covington and downtown fabric and offer access to many amenities in downtown Covington and Main Strauss 

 

I think Cincinnati offers a bit better infrastructure and transportation then in NKY, but given the cost to finance, it is time NKY shoulders some of the burden. 

The downside again to Covington is lack of a primary tenant. NKU built Heritage Bank arena and that gets a lot of regional events besides NKU athletics. It would have been nice to have them as a tenant in the arena just for booking purposes. I dont think the Cyclones would move there since they are owned by the people who own Heritage Bank arena and you figure that there would be some continued competition there and cheaper rent). So again, it makes it a difficult lift to build an arena anywhere in the urban core for that reason. You almost have to buy out the owners of Heritage Bank and mothball it as part of any arena development in order to take that space off the market. 

 

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Arena's never look pretty. It will always be a large box in one form or another and take up a large city block. 

 

As long as it has access - You can walk to it from downtown (albeit a hike, it is walkable. There is Tank/bus service built in there already and some parking infrastructure.

It has amenities. - Urban arenas are much better because there are bars and other businesses there that can compliment things before and after games. NKY offers this (suburban arenas and stadiums are awful when surrounded by an ocean of parking because there is nowhere to meet before/after the game)

 

I will say that I think the old IRS site could be a good fit for such a project. It would accomplish a couple of goals. 

1) NKY has talked about wanting to expand their convention center. An arena could be part of that project and convention bonds could be used as a financing source.

2) It is a large enough area to fit it in. 

3) It would fit pretty well into the Covington and downtown fabric and offer access to many amenities in downtown Covington and Main Strauss 

 

I think Cincinnati offers a bit better infrastructure and transportation then in NKY, but given the cost to finance, it is time NKY shoulders some of the burden. 

The downside again to Covington is lack of a primary tenant. NKU built Heritage Bank arena and that gets a lot of regional events besides NKU athletics. It would have been nice to have them as a tenant in the arena just for booking purposes. I dont think the Cyclones would move there since they are owned by the people who own Heritage Bank arena and you figure that there would be some continued competition there and cheaper rent). So again, it makes it a difficult lift to build an arena anywhere in the urban core for that reason. You almost have to buy out the owners of Heritage Bank and mothball it as part of any arena development in order to take that space off the market. 

 

The biggest knock against your desire to see this at the old IRS site is that Covington doesn't want it. They have repeatedly said they intend to recreate their city street grid that was obliterated by IRS. Their desire to mend their city is greater than any amount of new business you can offer them.

Furthermore, an arena in Covington or Newport would require more bridge capacity. Good luck with that.

While I'm dubious that Cincinnati really "needs" a new arena, I think the best place to put it would be in Queensgate since that area could use some redevelopment. The West End doesn't need a new sports venue. I don't think there's enough room at the Convention Center and I don't think Berding/FCC will want to work with the casino even though there's room there.

If you did something with Hard Rock, is that enough of an "anchor" so to speak to help make it manageable? They could fill that thing with content throughout the year including event esports. 

50 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

They have repeatedly said they intend to recreate their city street grid that was obliterated by IRS.

 

I wish Cincinnati had this same attitude, but if anything, we're more like to destroy even more of our downtown street grid in order to facilitate a new convention center expansion...

12 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

I wish Cincinnati had this same attitude, but if anything, we're more like to destroy even more of our downtown street grid in order to facilitate a new convention center expansion...

Sadly, you are correct.

1 hour ago, TheCOV said:

The biggest knock against your desire to see this at the old IRS site is that Covington doesn't want it. They have repeatedly said they intend to recreate their city street grid that was obliterated by IRS. Their desire to mend their city is greater than any amount of new business you can offer them.

Furthermore, an arena in Covington or Newport would require more bridge capacity. Good luck with that.

As mentioned before, the biggest knock against the IRS site is very simple: Cincinnati-Hamilton County- State of Ohio isn’t going to  put a penny into an arena project in KENTUCKY period. With that said the IRS or any Kentucky site is dead on arrival. This is not the Brent Spence Bridge project, there will be no financial coordination for a new arena. Whatever state side builds it will be paying for it and Kentucky is not financing a 500 million dollar tenantless arena.

1 hour ago, TheCOV said:

The biggest knock against your desire to see this at the old IRS site is that Covington doesn't want it. They have repeatedly said they intend to recreate their city street grid that was obliterated by IRS. Their desire to mend their city is greater than any amount of new business you can offer them.

Furthermore, an arena in Covington or Newport would require more bridge capacity. Good luck with that.

Those are very good points. Personally, I do not care where it is built as long as they can build it. However, figuring out how to finance it will be a challenge, especially without a permanent major league or major college tenant. Therefore, what are realistic options to be able to finance such a venture. Given the lack of major league tenant, you would almost need it to have a significant public financing portion. With that in mind, it seems like the best locations for such a venture would be to make it somehow related to or connected to a convention facility. NKY comes to find for that reason. You do not have the footprint in Cincinnati at the facility there that can accommodate. There is the Casino site which is also an option and would allow some shared resources to finance such an arena. Personally, I do not care where it is located as long as it is built.

2 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

While I'm dubious that Cincinnati really "needs" a new arena, I think the best place to put it would be in Queensgate since that area could use some redevelopment. The West End doesn't need a new sports venue. I don't think there's enough room at the Convention Center and I don't think Berding/FCC will want to work with the casino even though there's room there.

I'm not sure if it's Queensgate per se, but I have a dream of a redone area around Longworth hall that fills in the giant surface lot next to Longworth and attaches with an atrium to existing Longworth. I'm not sure an arena is that development, but it would be interesting to include an arena on that side of the highway and be part of the larger development re-working of I-75/Brent Spence and expansion of the convention center. 

34 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I'm not sure if it's Queensgate per se, but I have a dream of a redone area around Longworth hall that fills in the giant surface lot next to Longworth and attaches with an atrium to existing Longworth.

Where is that photo you included from? 

It's a space between two buildings in Seattle near the Seahawks stadium.

Edited March 28, 20223 yr by ucgrady

I correctly guessed where FCC was going to build TQL stadium before it was announced so I did a little speculating and came up with this for the new arena.

I used Kansas City's T-Mobile Center as a base since it's probably the size of the arena we'd be looking at. My first, and less likely, scenario is the arena being built adjacent to the casino. It would be easy to tear down the parking garages and rebuild them in the current surface lot.

I tried to make this as "too scale" as possible.

 

The next scenario is building an arena adjacent to Union Terminal. I think this might be a better option since Queensgate is ripe for redevelopment and there are some businesses that could be bought out for the arena and the redevelopment plan. I included a site plan and a possible streetcar extension. If someone has better PhotoShop skills please take a crack at this.

I never thought I'd say this, but after seeing Buffalo's new $1.8B stadium deal, we're going to get taken to the cleaners by the Bengals when their original deal is up in a few years.  Might as well add a retractable roof and kill two birds with one stone. 

3 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I correctly guessed where FCC was going to build TQL stadium before it was announced so I did a little speculating and came up with this for the new arena.

As much as I like the idea to place the new stadium by Union terminal to help spur development and maybe a streetcar line over that direction, it just seems too of out of the way. I know the riverfront location is limiting, but it also helps keep the Banks busy all year round and acting as our own "arena district". FCC obviously messed with that idea, but it's built directly adjacent to OTR. Trying to build up a third entertainment/arena district over by Union Terminal just seems like a city of our size would be stretching itself too thin. I like the idea of redeveloping the lots in front of union terminal with parking and residential or office but I agree with your first idea that the arena should be next to the casino; otherwise I'd rather see it stay somewhere along the Banks/Riverfront.

18 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

I never thought I'd say this, but after seeing Buffalo's new $1.8B stadium deal, we're going to get taken to the cleaners by the Bengals when their original deal is up in a few years.  Might as well add a retractable roof and kill two birds with one stone. 

Even being good enough to go to the super bowl I'm not sure Hamilton County has the appetite for that kind of deal again, but who knows. The crazy thing is the Pegulas are worth over $5 billion and got that deal, while our owner might be the poorest (haha) in the NFL. I know SoFi stadium was ridiculously expensive, but one thing I like about it is the big roof that covers the football stadium, the outdoor plaza and connects to a theater/concert venue. If we do end up on the hook for a renovated PBS maybe we could attach a new indoor arena, new indoor practice facility, renovated PBS into one big package

Edited March 29, 20223 yr by ucgrady

22 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

I never thought I'd say this, but after seeing Buffalo's new $1.8B stadium deal, we're going to get taken to the cleaners by the Bengals when their original deal is up in a few years.  Might as well add a retractable roof and kill two birds with one stone. 

 

I hope to God we don't. I'm sorry, I'm a huge Bengals fan but if they try to grab tax $ when we need more affordable housing and rail transit, then they can relocate. Part of the reason we don't have rail now is because of the stadium deal.

It may not be the best way to go, but the obvious answer to me is to use the money that would go to a new basketball arena and put a dome on Paul Brown Stadium instead. Retrofit PBS to handle events like basketball games well enough to be passable (see article below) and focus the renovation primarily on building a venue capable of landing major concerts.

It sucks that the previous stadium deal was as horrible as it was, but the damage has been done. IMO Cincy would lose more money by not upgrading, then losing the Bengals, then building some other stadium without a clear purpose vs. just upgrading PBS to fit this purpose. Sure, this might cut into the purpose of the competing concert venues right there, but if we were smart maybe all three together plus the outdoor space could host events like a tamer Bunbury. Or heck, maybe even a winter Bunbury… better marketers and data analysts than me could figure out whether there’s a winter indoor music festival market, but I bet there would be.

Template for how Basketball can be played in a football stadium:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/4/5/8348653/what-its-like-to-watch-basketball-in-a-football-stadium


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Most or almost zero realize they won't be a new tax for any new stadium or PBS renovation.The half cent sales tax passed in 1996 has no expiration date.Im guessing the Bengals get a half billion dollar renovation without a huge backlash anything more and it's bloody murder cries against it.

7 hours ago, nicker66 said:

I never thought I'd say this, but after seeing Buffalo's new $1.8B stadium deal, we're going to get taken to the cleaners by the Bengals when their original deal is up in a few years.  Might as well add a retractable roof and kill two birds with one stone. 

I highly doubt a PBS renovation will be more than about 400 million. I’m not even sure the bengals even want a roof lol. The cost of a roof could be in the hundreds of millions which would be about the cost to gut Heritage Bank Center. The team/NFL will cover part of it and that will be that. This chatter about the bengals wanting a brand new stadium is silly to me. If I had to guess they will get the renovation and extend the lease thru the 2030s at which point the team will want a new stadium around 2040 or so.