I'd be interested to know how all of the deliveries were intercepted, and how to avoid that happening in the future?

My first guess would be that hypothetically....you'd want to use a variety of envelopes, stagger the dates you mail them on, and don't send them all from the same post office.

 

It would also be a pretty bad idea to use your own feces, cause they're definitely going to halt every rape kit in the state to DNA test that sh*t as fast as possible.

Lord...

Ohio Anti-Vaxxers Pushing Anti-Vaccine Update for Ohio Constitution

 

State politicians advanced an effort Tuesday to place anti-vaccination language onto a general election ballot, which would leave the fate of vaccine mandates in Ohio in voters’ hands.

 

If passed, Ohio would become the only state in the nation with an explicit ban of vaccine mandates in its constitution. It would mark a major step backward for public health, dampen an already sluggish COVID-19 vaccination effort in Ohio, and nix a practice of mandating vaccination that traces back through early American history.

 

The Ohio Ballot Board — a bipartisan panel controlled by Republicans — allowed organizers of the “Medical Right to Refuse” amendment to begin gathering the 443,000 voters’ signatures required to place the referendum on a ballot. Organizers said they’re hoping to put the issue to voters in May 2023.

 

The proposal covers all vaccines, not just COVID-19. It contains two basic elements:

• “An individual’s right to refuse any medical procedure, treatment, injection, vaccine, prophylactic, pharmaceutical, or medical device shall be absolute.”
• “No law, rule, regulation, person, employer, entity, or healthcare provider shall require, mandate or coerce any person to receive or use a medical procedure, treatment, injection, vaccine, prophylactic, pharmaceutical, or medical device nor shall the aforementioned discriminate against the individual who exercises this right.”

If enacted, the law could force changes in several institutions that require vaccination. For instance, the Ohio National Guard requires a broad range of vaccinations from its troops; Ohio k-12 schools and colleges require vaccination against COVID-19 and other diseases as a term of enrollment (although broad exemptions can be invoked); some health care providers require their care personnel to receive vaccinations; some employers require them as well.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/activists-want-anti-vaccine-amendment-in-ohio-constitution-ocj1/

 

37 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Lord...

Ohio Anti-Vaxxers Pushing Anti-Vaccine Update for Ohio Constitution

 

State politicians advanced an effort Tuesday to place anti-vaccination language onto a general election ballot, which would leave the fate of vaccine mandates in Ohio in voters’ hands.

 

If passed, Ohio would become the only state in the nation with an explicit ban of vaccine mandates in its constitution. It would mark a major step backward for public health, dampen an already sluggish COVID-19 vaccination effort in Ohio, and nix a practice of mandating vaccination that traces back through early American history.

 

The Ohio Ballot Board — a bipartisan panel controlled by Republicans — allowed organizers of the “Medical Right to Refuse” amendment to begin gathering the 443,000 voters’ signatures required to place the referendum on a ballot. Organizers said they’re hoping to put the issue to voters in May 2023.

 

The proposal covers all vaccines, not just COVID-19. It contains two basic elements:

• “An individual’s right to refuse any medical procedure, treatment, injection, vaccine, prophylactic, pharmaceutical, or medical device shall be absolute.”
• “No law, rule, regulation, person, employer, entity, or healthcare provider shall require, mandate or coerce any person to receive or use a medical procedure, treatment, injection, vaccine, prophylactic, pharmaceutical, or medical device nor shall the aforementioned discriminate against the individual who exercises this right.”

If enacted, the law could force changes in several institutions that require vaccination. For instance, the Ohio National Guard requires a broad range of vaccinations from its troops; Ohio k-12 schools and colleges require vaccination against COVID-19 and other diseases as a term of enrollment (although broad exemptions can be invoked); some health care providers require their care personnel to receive vaccinations; some employers require them as well.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/activists-want-anti-vaccine-amendment-in-ohio-constitution-ocj1/

 

Absolutely the dumbest collection of “lawmakers” on earth. 

If I was single and childless, I would have fled this toilet state by now

 

.@SherrodBrown says on Senate floor he's hearing from prestigious colleges and college presidents that "students who are considering coming to Ohio to go to school are having second thoughts" because of the "extremism" of the state's abortion and gun laws.

23 minutes ago, KJP said:

If I was single and childless, I would have fled this toilet state by now

 

.@SherrodBrown says on Senate floor he's hearing from prestigious colleges and college presidents that "students who are considering coming to Ohio to go to school are having second thoughts" because of the "extremism" of the state's abortion and gun laws.

 

Abortion laws, I can see.  Eventually we need to rethink that.   There's nothing "extreme" about our gun laws.

8 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Abortion laws, I can see.  Eventually we need to rethink that.   There's nothing "extreme" about our gun laws.

 

‘Our voices are not heard’ — Ohio’s largest police union slams new GOP gun bills

 

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signed a bill on Monday allowing teachers to carry guns in class after 24 hours of training, over opposition from teachers and a police group.

 

Not extreme, just those most affected by the law think that the laws go to far. 

13 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Abortion laws, I can see.  Eventually we need to rethink that.   There's nothing "extreme" about our gun laws.

 

Ohio disagrees with you.

 

https://giffords.org/press-release/2020/11/ohio-poll-overwhelming-support-for-gun-violence-prevention/

 

On 7/14/2022 at 3:09 PM, Luke_S said:

 

‘Our voices are not heard’ — Ohio’s largest police union slams new GOP gun bills

 

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signed a bill on Monday allowing teachers to carry guns in class after 24 hours of training, over opposition from teachers and a police group.

 

Not extreme, just those most affected by the law think that the laws go to far. 

 

Senator Brown chose the word, though.

 

I do disagree with getting rid of "duty to inform" vis a vis Constitutional carry and I would indeed inform if I get pulled over.    But as 25 states already have constitutional carry and all but a few holdouts allow licensed concealed carry.    Also, most states have preemption laws against stricter local laws.

 

So nothing here is "extreme".

 

I sort of worry about the day that the Democrats remember the last time their gubernatorial nominee won, he did so with the NRA endorsement.   But I don't expect it to happen soon.

Extremism is anti-economic development 

 

 

Three Teenagers Running for Ohio House of Representatives

 

Sam Cao worked out a plan with his principal and superintendent. They had to figure out how Cao could potentially balance constituent work in the Ohio House of Representatives with classwork at Mason High School.

 

At Miami University, Sam Lawrence mulled a similar plan for his upcoming sophomore year. Ohio University’s Rhyan Goodman is likely doing the same for his junior year.

 

The three Democrats would be quite young for elected office. Cao is 17 but turns 18 before Election Day, which allows him to run; Lawrence is 19; Goodman was 19 when he announced his run in February.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/three-teenagers-running-for-ohio-house-of-representatives-ocj1/

 

 

Democrat Candidates Want to Bring Accountability Back to State Offices

 

Democrats are hammering the administration of Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine for a rash of stories over the last few months they say raise serious ethical questions that highlight the need for changes to Ohio law.

 

In late May, Ohioans learned that Lt. Gov. Jon Husted quietly took a seat on a bank’s board a few months earlier. As chief of the DeWine administration’s Common Sense Initiative, which reviews state regulations to “to propel job and economic growth in Ohio,” the lieutenant governor’s influence could offer substantial, and potentially unfair, advantages to a bank looking to expand.

 

It took Husted more than a month to reveal how much he was making on the board.

 

More recently documents related to the FirstEnergy bribery scandal indicate DeWine and Husted played a much more active role than previously known. Text messages describe the two men performing “battlefield triage” to secure Sam Randazzo’s seat heading up the state utility commission. Randazzo resigned after FirstEnergy admitted to paying him a $4.3 million bribe but has not been charged and denies wrongdoing.

 

The same trove of documents show DeWine and Husted meeting repeatedly with Randazzo and state lawmakers to discuss House Bill 6. Prosecutors allege FirstEnergy bankrolled the nuclear plant bailout measure through a dark money group controlled by then House Speaker Larry Householder. Text messages indicate Husted even advocated to make the measure more lucrative for FirstEnergy by extending its length.

 

In a pair of press conferences Thursday, Democrats pitched plans to ensure accountability and prevent similar behavior in the future.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/democrat-candidates-want-to-bring-accountability-back-to-state-offices-ocj1/

Ohio GOP Wants More Tax Breaks for Natural Gas Corporations

 

Two state House Republicans proposed legislation to give some natural gas pipeline developers state-funded tax breaks and interest-free loans, while allowing them to add a surcharge to ratepayers’ monthly bills.

 

Reps. Jay Edwards, of Nelsonville, and Jon Cross, of Kenton, proposed House Bill 685 to aid communities that they say lose out on economic gains from natural gas development due to a lack of infrastructure.
 

The bill would allow local governments to request a designation as an “EnergizeOhio zone.” The director of the Ohio Department of Development must grant it if he or she determines that “deficiencies in natural gas infrastructure” in the area harm economic growth.

 

Pipeline developers siting projects within these zones can obtain interest-free loans from a new $20 million pot of money to purchase or lease land easements. The legislation would create another $50 million pot, funded by federal coronavirus relief dollars, for natural gas infrastructure projects.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-wants-more-tax-breaks-for-natural-gas-corporations-ocj1/

 

^But what about rural aesthetics??

Not sure where else to put this

 

 

Ohio May End ‘Third Grade Reading Guarantee’

 

The Ohio Education Association is urging the Ohio Senate to take up House Bill 497 this fall. If passed, the bill will eliminate the mandatory retention of third graders who do not score proficiently on Ohio standardized literacy tests. 

 

The legislation has the bipartisan sponsorship of North Ridgeville Republican state Rep. Gayle Manning and Solon Democratic state Rep. Phil Robinson.

 

Christina Collins, who sits on the Ohio State Board of Education, argued test scores can be misleading.

 

“Policymakers have become solely reliant on data to tell narratives about the successes or lack thereof in districts schools, students, and student achievement,” Collins said.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-may-end-third-grade-reading-guarantee-ocj1/

 

Poll: Where Ohioans Stand on Abortion, Gun Control, Climate Change & More

 

A new poll from Baldwin Wallace University shows a largely favorable opinion of Gov. Mike DeWine, U.S. Senate candidate Tim Ryan and former President Donald Trump among Ohio voters.

 

Found to be unfavorable by likely Ohio voters is a lack of gun control in the state and a lack of action on climate change.

...

The “pulse” survey took the temperature of 856 likely Ohio voters ahead of the November elections, and found 85% favor expanded background checks for 18 to 21 year old gun purchasers, 79% support for raising the minimum age to buy “AR-15-style semi-automatic rifles” to age 21, and 75% want to see “red flag laws,” which would allow law enforcement to remove guns from owners who deemed to be a danger to themselves or others.

 

A majority (59%) of those surveyed said they would support an amendment to the Ohio Constitution to make “access to abortion a fundamental right,” and 60% approved of a federal law to legalize same-sex marriage.

 

When asked whether voters agreed or disagreed that “restricting access to abortion is a form of discrimination against women,” 44.5% of voters in the poll strongly agreed.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/poll-where-ohioans-stand-on-abortion-gun-control-climate-change-ocj1/

 

 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

The case that led to this mess was a gross miscarriage of justice. Issue 1 helps reset things to where they were before. It still gives judges discretion in setting bail, but it allows them to take into consideration the risk to the community of letting the person out. If it is someone who has a high recidivism rate and has had other violent crimes in the past it makes sense to provide a high bail because of the risk to the community that they will commit another crime while out again. It is common sense standards. Really should not be a major issue. The OH SC was wrong when they ruled on the bail issue over a year ago and this just fixes their mistake 

 

Here's one reason why Democrats performed badly in Ohio in the Midterms. Look at voter turnout in former Democratic strongholds like Cleveland. Voters in this city are completely disengaged and have been for most elections in the 21st century. Also, the National Democratic Party failed to support Tim Ryan. Ohio was surrendered.

 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

This is a little pessimistic. The balance of power in the governor's mansion and statehouse will remain essentially unchanged from the last couple years. When all the votes are counted, J.D. Vance may only lead by 4 points over Ryan, which makes Ohio essentially 5 points more Republican than Pennsylvania. That's not a drastic difference.

 

There are some pretty practical things you can get involved with. There should be another constitutional amendment on how redistricting is done that will get rid of the ridiculous state legislative districts we have. There is almost definitely going to be a pro-choice constitutional amendment on the ballot in the next couple years. Look at what just happened in Kentucky, which was a +30 Republican state. If democrats place a carefully crafted abortion rights amendment on the ballot, it will pass.

 

Everything that just happened in this election was either expected or in Democrats' favor. OH-1 and OH-13 are surprises. Tim Ryan was not supposed to win. Nan Whaley never had a chance. So I don't think you should be unduly discouraged because there are things that can be (and probably will be) done. You have somewhat of a bully pulpit and could make a difference in the redistricting changes. That would be the biggest thing for this state long term.

 

29 minutes ago, KJP said:

Here's one reason why Democrats performed badly in Ohio in the Midterms. Look at voter turnout in former Democratic strongholds like Cleveland. Voters in this city are completely disengaged and have been for most elections in the 21st century. Also, the National Democratic Party failed to support Tim Ryan. Ohio was surrendered.

 

 

District 11 had the lowest turnout of any congressional district in Ohio. The only way to fix this is to focus on improving the lives of the radically poor in Cleveland. The poor are basically never engaged voters. We have a tremendous opportunity with the manufacturing onshoring that is going to occur over the next decade to improve the lives of impoverished Clevelanders if we are just smart enough to capitalize on it.

26 minutes ago, KJP said:

National Democratic Party failed to support Tim Ryan

This was by design, and a good idea (potentially even requested by Ryan's team). But I agree, Cleveland has been failing us this past decade, while Cincinnati and Columbus continue pulling their weight at the least.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

While I'd love to move to Michigan or Western PA for the better politics, I can't because of jobs and family. I imagine the people that would move because of this election is statistically insignificant. In fact, I'm somewhat proud we over-performed expectations.

32 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

This was by design, and a good idea (potentially even requested by Ryan's team). But I agree, Cleveland has been failing us this past decade, while Cincinnati and Columbus continue pulling their weight at the least.

Cleveland deserves blame, but don't shift any off of Columbus, lol. The turnout in Cuyahoga County and Franklin County were basically the same.

39 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

District 11 had the lowest turnout of any congressional district in Ohio. The only way to fix this is to focus on improving the lives of the radically poor in Cleveland. The poor are basically never engaged voters. We have a tremendous opportunity with the manufacturing onshoring that is going to occur over the next decade to improve the lives of impoverished Clevelanders if we are just smart enough to capitalize on it.

 

This - if folks don't think politicians are working for them or care about them what's the incentive to vote? There are 1000 other things to worry about and caring about some unknown politician (congressperson, judge, etc.) is exponentially low on that list when you can't put food on the table.

55 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

This - if folks don't think politicians are working for them or care about them what's the incentive to vote? There are 1000 other things to worry about and caring about some unknown politician (congressperson, judge, etc.) is exponentially low on that list when you can't put food on the table.

 

There's really only one party that's been offering anything to the lower income groups for decades, and it's the opposite party that has actively been working to destroy any kind of social or economic safety nets for the poor, ensuring poverty in America- and all its related issues- only gets worse over time. Part of the reason they can't feed their families is because their own apathy helps terrible, even hostile leadership maintain power. 

 

Societies don't change magically. It requires engagement, it requires work. Regardless of one's personal circumstances or hardships, sacrificing one's vote is a self-inflicted wound.  At this point though, that apathy (and not just from the poor) is leading to the end of the democratic voice in the US altogether. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by jonoh81

With you a million percent @jonoh81. Your last sentence really brought it home - it's been years of chipping away at things to breed such apathy. Now that the SC is completely red it's only going to get worse. I think part of getting more people engaged is not just using folks for photo ops and instead engaging with the poor, weak, and downtrodden. I don't think people realize that things like the food bank expansion up here in Cleveland is a result of federal dollars, or the lack of transit is a result of state lawmakers not caring, or that the cost of electricity is burdened by HB6 and the surrounding corruption. It also takes a ton of energy and resources to be engaged - a lot of these neighborhoods barely have accessible internet access.

2 hours ago, 10albersa said:

This was by design, and a good idea (potentially even requested by Ryan's team). But I agree, Cleveland has been failing us this past decade, while Cincinnati and Columbus continue pulling their weight at the least.

 

Partly by design, partly because he refused to toe the "progressive" line.   Had he done so, it would not have even been close.   This says more about the national Democratic Party that it does about him, the state party, or the Ohio electorate.

25 minutes ago, GISguy said:

With you a million percent @jonoh81. Your last sentence really brought it home - it's been years of chipping away at things to breed such apathy. Now that the SC is completely red it's only going to get worse. I think part of getting more people engaged is not just using folks for photo ops and instead engaging with the poor, weak, and downtrodden. I don't think people realize that things like the food bank expansion up here in Cleveland is a result of federal dollars, or the lack of transit is a result of state lawmakers not caring, or that the cost of electricity is burdened by HB6 and the surrounding corruption. It also takes a ton of energy and resources to be engaged - a lot of these neighborhoods barely have accessible internet access.

 

To put it in perspective, Republicans have controlled both the house and senate of the general assembly since 1992. That's right. 1992 was the last time either chamber was in Democrat hands. So it's not like Republicans being in control is anything new. We will find ways to succeed with the hand we have. Columbus has very strong growth. Cincinnati turned the corner. They have to deal with the same legislature we do. It's up to us to find a way to increase the prosperity here.

 

And to your point @LlamaLawyerI really hope the 3C's can flex our power at some point...

53 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

To put it in perspective, Republicans have controlled both the house and senate of the general assembly since 1992. That's right. 1992 was the last time either chamber was in Democrat hands. So it's not like Republicans being in control is anything new.

 

What amazes me is how many people in Ohio still think Democrats are to blame for everything they don't like about state government, and continue electing the people who got us where we are today.

46 minutes ago, mrCharlie said:

 

What amazes me is how many people in Ohio still think Democrats are to blame for everything they don't like about state government, and continue electing the people who got us where we are today.

 

Apathy and a general lack of critical thinking skills and intellectual curiosity. People anymore don't bother with facts or evidence, they simply regurgitate what they're told. And Republicans are far better at messaging than Democrats.  Not just from a standpoint of being louder with a more consistent message, but by providing a more compelling psychological impetus- Fear vs. literally anything else. Fear wins every single time. If you scare people enough, they will give up everything just to feel safe. Their freedom, their rights, their democracy, and ironically, even their safety.  Republicans cynically use fear ratcheted up to 11 constantly. It drowns out everything else, but especially a more hopeful, reality-based, non-threatening vision given by a weak-voiced Democratic Party.  Historically, this is how democratic empires die, but it's also how fascist empires rise.  That transition is well under way in America.

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by jonoh81

3 hours ago, GISguy said:

 

This - if folks don't think politicians are working for them or care about them what's the incentive to vote? There are 1000 other things to worry about and caring about some unknown politician (congressperson, judge, etc.) is exponentially low on that list when you can't put food on the table.

 

If you drag people down too far on Maslov's Heirarchy of Needs they aren't going to vote. That's why the Right wants to make being poor as miserable as possible. 

2 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Apathy and a general lack of critical thinking skills and intellectual curiosity. People anymore don't bother with facts or evidence, they simply regurgitate what they're told. And Republicans are far better at messaging than Democrats.  Not just from a standpoint of being louder with a more consistent message, but by providing a more compelling psychological impetus- Fear vs. literally anything else. Fear wins every single time. If you scare people enough, they will give up everything just to feel safe. Their freedom, their rights, their democracy, and ironically, even their safety.  Republicans cynically use fear ratcheted up to 11 constantly. It drowns out everything else, but especially a more hopeful, reality-based, non-threatening vision given by a weak-voiced Democratic Party.  Historically, this is how democratic empires die, but it's also how fascist empires rise.

 

White women will get raped if you don't do as they say.

10 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

White women will get raped if you don't do as they say.

 

By border-crossing migrant caravans who are also responsible for Chicago's and all urban murder rates, rigging the elections by voting without IDs in both socialist California and good-Christian, small-town Kansas, supporting CRT, trans in sports and child litter boxes in elementary schools, working in Leftist clinics that only abort full-term babies, and provide their homes for vampire Democratic pedophiles to traffick stolen children to European Communist CEOs and Bill Gates. 

 

All of this utterly stupid insanity is what motivates people to vote Republican. Imagine. Oh, and I guess gas prices they don't know how work. 

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by jonoh81

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

 

And to your point @LlamaLawyerI really hope the 3C's can flex our power at some point...

 

It's kind of fun mocking on people who screech "gerrymandering!" about statewide elections, like they just learned that word and still don't know exactly what it means.

Ohio rocks

 

 

11 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

It's kind of fun mocking on people who screech "gerrymandering!" about statewide elections, like they just learned that word and still don't know exactly what it means.

 

Directly and in a single election, yes - but over time, gerrymandering almost certainly has some effects on statewide races. 

 

First, I'd speculate part of the reason we have so many weak D statewide candidates in Ohio is they have limited opportunity to gain district-level (statehouse, congressional) office experience thanks to gerrymandering. With packed districts, those that do win aren't running very tough races, and never gain that experience either.

It's also pretty discouraging for people like myself (mostly blue voters in highly gerrymandered red districts) realizing there is basically no point in voting in any district-level races. A fair number of these are unopposed races to being with, because why bother running when you have zero chance of winning? Does that get voters to stay home? Hard to say, but it certainly doesn't make voting feel very important. 

 

Then you get stuff like statewide issues, which can very often drive voters of one party or the other to the polls, either being put forward or suppressed by a very gerrymandered state legislature.

Abysmal voter turnout from the urban core and lower income areas of Cleveland. Dem's can't win elections because they can't turn out people to vote.

https://liveresults.boe.ohio.gov/ENR/cuyohenr/20/en/Index_20.html

1 minute ago, downtownjoe said:

Abysmal voter turnout from the urban core and lower income areas of Cleveland. Dem's can't win elections because they can't turn out people to vote.

https://liveresults.boe.ohio.gov/ENR/cuyohenr/20/en/Index_20.html

 

It's not a political party's job to turn out the vote. It's the job of citizens to exercise their rights, and arguably have a responsibility to do so. If Dem voters can't be bothered to turn out, they don't deserve the rights they have. And indeed, they're well on the way to having them taken away by the party they didn't bother to come out and vote against. 

8 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

It's not a political party's job to turn out the vote. It's the job of citizens to exercise their rights, and arguably have a responsibility to do so. If Dem voters can't be bothered to turn out, they don't deserve the rights they have. And indeed, they're well on the way to having them taken away by the party they didn't bother to come out and vote against. 

 

Disagree with ya here. A party or candidate that is consistently engaged and interacting with their constituents is going to be able to drive turnout. A party that only shows up every 2 to 4 years when they need votes is not going to fare well. And that's what Democrats in Ohio have been doing for at least the last decade+. 

41 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

It's not a political party's job to turn out the vote.

 

Having worked on several campaigns, it 100% is. In a well-run campaign the last three weeks are nothing but generating turnout, with a network of canvassers, door knockers, and, on election day, poll watchers. Did anyone knock on your door and make sure you got out to vote? Because no one did that in my neighborhood.

2 hours ago, mrCharlie said:

 

What amazes me is how many people in Ohio still think Democrats are to blame for everything they don't like about state government, and continue electing the people who got us where we are today.

 

This is true, but statehouse politics is less important to local economic issues than one might believe. What is important is stability and predictability. And though I criticize Republicans for a lot of what they're doing, Ohio Republicans have, for the most part, been a known quantity and predictable. Does it piss me off that the statehouse won't let Cleveland decide who can be a police officer? Yeah. Does it piss me off that they won't support intercity rail? Yeah. Does it piss me off that the legislature discriminates against alternative energy proposals even if they're profitable? Yeah. Does it piss me off that they want to make it easier to get a gun than to vote? Yeah. But I'm not exactly under the illusion that we'd be materially better off if we'd had democratic leadership this whole time. Chicago and Detroit and Buffalo have had all the same issues we have even with much more consistent democratic leadership in their statehouses. d*ck Celeste ran this state for most of the 1980s, but that decade didn't magically transform the state's cities into utopias. It's on the local leaders to bring prosperity to the community.

 

**EDIT: Apparently the forum won't let me write out our former governor's name.

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by LlamaLawyer

30 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

It's not a political party's job to turn out the vote. It's the job of citizens to exercise their rights, and arguably have a responsibility to do so. If Dem voters can't be bothered to turn out, they don't deserve the rights they have. And indeed, they're well on the way to having them taken away by the party they didn't bother to come out and vote against. 

Get out the vote is a huge part of party politics. Well organized parties have lists of voters registered to their party and work those lists with multiple touch points to ensure that they vote. 

36 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

 

Disagree with ya here. A party or candidate that is consistently engaged and interacting with their constituents is going to be able to drive turnout. A party that only shows up every 2 to 4 years when they need votes is not going to fare well. And that's what Democrats in Ohio have been doing for at least the last decade+. 

 

That's an argument for better candidates, and I don't disagree with that. But ultimately, no matter how good a candidate is, every eligible voter must decide to be engaged too, to know the stakes and to make the effort to vote. I don't like the idea that we remove all responsibility from the voters to exercise a right, especially when it's literally being threatened. 

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Partly by design, partly because he refused to toe the "progressive" line.   Had he done so, it would not have even been close.   This says more about the national Democratic Party that it does about him, the state party, or the Ohio electorate.

Disagree.  The national party is run by the moderates (the DNC), not the progressives.  The Democratic Party is not advocating for universal healthcare or defunding the police -- those are truly far-left policies.  The Party actually argued for strengthening access to healthcare without expanding Medicare eligibility, something that progressives were upset about.  The Party position is that we should encourage competition among insurers as a way to bring costs down, not start a national health insurance program for everyone; again, much to the dismay of progressives.  The Party endorsed "net zero" emissions by 2050, but did not back cutting oil subsidies and not the Green New Deal.  

 

Democratic candidates need to stop running away from touting the party platform, because in doing so they are allowing Republicants to define Democratic Candidates as supporting further-left progressive and far-left policies, which most Democrats do not support.  Tim Ryan could have run as a Democrat with a message that touted the Democratic Party line and would have had more success than he did by bashing the national party.

45 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

A party or candidate that is consistently engaged and interacting with their constituents is going to be able to drive turnout. 

 

JD Vance didn't do squat and he won.  He didn't even put his own campaign sign in his own front yard.  

37 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

Having worked on several campaigns, it 100% is. In a well-run campaign the last three weeks are nothing but generating turnout, with a network of canvassers, door knockers, and, on election day, poll watchers. Did anyone knock on your door and make sure you got out to vote? Because no one did that in my neighborhood.

 

Again, though, that's saying no one has a responsibility to be informed or engaged, and I fully disagree with that. What is the point of having an individual right if it requires someone else to hold your hand to care about it at all?  Nope, I am not going to absolve people of their apathy. We need better candidates, but we also need people to step up. 

 

37 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

This is true, but statehouse politics is less important to local economic issues than one might believe. What is important is stability and predictability. And though I criticize Republicans for a lot of what they're doing, Ohio Republicans have, for the most part, been a known quantity and predictable. Does it piss me off that the statehouse won't let Cleveland decide who can be a police officer? Yeah. Does it piss me off that they won't support intercity rail? Yeah. Does it piss me off that the legislature discriminates against alternative energy proposals even if they're profitable? Yeah. Does it piss me off that they want to make it easier to get a gun than to vote? Yeah. But I'm not exactly under the illusion that we'd be materially better off if we'd had democratic leadership this whole time. Chicago and Detroit and Buffalo have had all the same issues we have even with much more consistent democratic leadership in their statehouses. d*ck Celeste ran this state for most of the 1980s, but that decade didn't magically transform the state's cities into utopias. It's on the local leaders to bring prosperity to the community.

 

**EDIT: Apparently the forum won't let me write out our former governor's name.

 

That seems kind of unfair, though. Just because local Democratic leadership hasn't solved all problems at all times in every place doesn't mean things wouldn't have been tangibly worse with the alternative. Democrats at the national level have produced better economic results than Republicans across the board, but that doesn't mean there were no economic issues under their leadership, and I think that's not a reasonable expectation. Bad things happen sometimes and there aren't easy fixes regardless of leadership, just like now with inflation. Besides, it's not always about you personally being materially better off. It's about all the other people that may end up much worse with the wrong people in charge.  Democrats, for their flaws, won't generally make things worse. Republicans will. 

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by jonoh81