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Happy to any progress on this project. Cincy is the last of the 3-C's to see it's iconic tower complex see a full scale redevelopment. I trust Victrix can knock this one out of the park and make Carew shine again.

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  • Carew Tower wins $10M in Ohio historic tax credits for residential conversion   By Brian Planalp – Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier Dec 21, 2023   Downtown Cincinnati’s i

  • There are a lot of massive buildings being developed right now in the downtown core.   Carew - 375 Apartments, 10 condo units Mercantile - 172 Apartments Fourth and Walnut - 280 Ro

  • Rabbit Hash
    Rabbit Hash

    #BringBackCarewLights   We need a campaign "2 Light Carew"!   Sorry.

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Cleveland based poster here--just saw this thread when scrolling through recent activity.  

Does this mean the hotel bar at the HIlton is no longer there?   I loved that place when staying in Cincinnati!  

23 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Cleveland based poster here--just saw this thread when scrolling through recent activity.  

Does this mean the hotel bar at the HIlton is no longer there?   I loved that place when staying in Cincinnati!  


No The Bar at Palm Court is still there. Orchids (the restaurant) has been closed since covid but is going to reopen. All of these spaces are in the hotel proper and separate from the Carew Tower side redevelopment.

  • 1 month later...
  • Author

Cincinnati's largest developments applying for over $89 million in state tax credits

 

Victrix Investments LLC is trying its hand at securing a different type of state tax credits for the redevelopment of Carew Tower.

 

Victrix requested $10 million in state historic tax credits for the project – one of three projects that sought that amount in the latest round of the program – but did not land its requested credits. Now, it’s applied for TMUD funds totaling over $4.2 million.

...

According to the application, the redevelopment would include the entirety of the 49-story Carew Tower for residential use. That would include 375 apartments and 10 short-term corporate housing units.

 

The amenities would include a fitness center, tenant lounge, roof deck, dedicated coworking space, bicycle storage and pet spa.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/11/13/tmud-tax-credits-convention-hotel-carew-tower.html

 

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

I know "Save our Icons" already happened, but behind Union Terminal and Music Hall, Carew Tower is the next logical "Icon" in line that needs to be saved. I say give them whatever they are asking for, but ensure that they maintain the public first floor galleria, the Palm Court/Hall of Mirrors, and the observation deck with that money. All the residential conversion itself should be on the developer. 

1 minute ago, ucgrady said:

I know "Save our Icons" already happened, but behind Union Terminal and Music Hall, Carew Tower is the next logical "Icon" in line that needs to be saved. I say give them whatever they are asking for, but ensure that they maintain the public first floor galleria, the Palm Court/Hall of Mirrors, and the observation deck with that money. All the residential conversion itself should be on the developer. 

Carew Tower is nice, but you will never get a tax levy to save Carew Tower, just like you did not get one to save the Terrace Plaza.  Union Terminal and Music Hall were public buildings, Carew is privately owned. 

Certainly, like other historic structures, you can give TIF or other tax credit financing to renovate them but public funding through a bond levy is not really appropriate here.

You're right, I'm not saying that it needs to be part of a tax levy, I'm saying that it should be a shoe in for all these tax credits though as a true icon in downtown and on their city's skyline. 

21 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Cincinnati's largest developments applying for over $89 million in state tax credits

 

Victrix Investments LLC is trying its hand at securing a different type of state tax credits for the redevelopment of Carew Tower.

 

Victrix requested $10 million in state historic tax credits for the project – one of three projects that sought that amount in the latest round of the program – but did not land its requested credits. Now, it’s applied for TMUD funds totaling over $4.2 million.

...

According to the application, the redevelopment would include the entirety of the 49-story Carew Tower for residential use. That would include 375 apartments and 10 short-term corporate housing units.

 

The amenities would include a fitness center, tenant lounge, roof deck, dedicated coworking space, bicycle storage and pet spa.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/11/13/tmud-tax-credits-convention-hotel-carew-tower.html

 

1fe1d5c1-8c17-43d9-a249-14259545b79a-dow

 

3 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said:

 

That's my take. Anytime applications go in for this or any sort of grant or subsidy, catastrophe has to be the other option to winning the money and the resulting utopia.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2023/11/13/downtown-cincinnati-intersection-closed-carew-tower/71572710007/

 

Yikes. Figuratively...not literally!

 

 

“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

this line makes it seem not that bad: "A brick fell from the Cincinnati landmark's façade on Monday as the building's exterior was undergoing repairs, city officials said in a news release."

Carew would make a great condo development in the hands of the right developer. Iconic address, economy of scale, amazing views, parking, compact units with ample light. Would be a big shot in the arm to downtown too.

On 11/16/2023 at 1:59 PM, Miami-Erie said:

Carew would make a great condo development in the hands of the right developer. Iconic address, economy of scale, amazing views, parking, compact units with ample light. Would be a big shot in the arm to downtown too.

Agree! I wonder what the math would be on added residents if it was ALL condo. 40+ stories of condos would be considerable!

i was in that building years ago. my first impression was how small the offices were. The construction world went in more of a "open plan layout" for living spaces. i wonder if you can gut those floors to accommadate the 21C.

Don't forget that in addition to the conversion of the office tower to condos or apartments, the hotel tower is also in need of a major renovation, as the rooms are in bad shape and Hilton has already threatened to pull their brand from the hotel unless improvements are made. While the lobby, restaurant, and ballrooms appear to be in decent condition, I'm sure many of the mechanical systems serving the hotel are also nearing the end of their functional life.

This is a really exciting development for me. I wonder how it will look pre and post construction on the facade. Hopefully someone with Camera skills *cough @taestell@Lazaruscould do a before after!

  • 1 month later...

Carew Tower wins $10M in Ohio historic tax credits for residential conversion

 

By Brian Planalp – Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 21, 2023

 

Downtown Cincinnati’s iconic Carew Tower received $10 million from the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit program’s latest funding round, announced Dec. 21.

 

The 49-story office tower will be converted into 385 apartments with amenity spaces on floors 45 and 46, according to the award announcement.

 

MORE

Now let's get some city TIF funds approved with the condition that they reopen the rooftop observation deck to the public!

  • Author

...and bring the floodlights back...

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

The one thing that is a bit concerning about some of the office to apartment conversions is the loss of some smaller "amenity type" offices that cater to both an office and residential customer. I know Carew and even the old 4th and Vine, being older class B office space, offered some office space used by  primary care docs, dentists, chiropractors, etc.  These types of offices are important amenities to have in a residential neighborhood as people who are living and working in the city have a need for these services on a regular basis.  I wonder if people have thought about figuring out a way to keep these types of businesses around the urban core as many of them are pushed out of their older office space for residential conversions?

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The one thing that is a bit concerning about some of the office to apartment conversions is the loss of some smaller "amenity type" offices that cater to both an office and residential customer. I know Carew and even the old 4th and Vine, being older class B office space, offered some office space used by  primary care docs, dentists, chiropractors, etc.  These types of offices are important amenities to have in a residential neighborhood as people who are living and working in the city have a need for these services on a regular basis.  I wonder if people have thought about figuring out a way to keep these types of businesses around the urban core as many of them are pushed out of their older office space for residential conversions?

Have them rent storefronts? 

6 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

...and bring the floodlights back...

might be a bit of an issue with night-time occupants.

  • Author

I thought about that but then I remembered there are ways to floodlight it without getting into the windows.  For example...

 

BE77152_Hero.jpg?fit=fill&fm=jpg&w=600&h

 

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

There will be space for businesses (hopefully some resident-oriented ones) in the renovated tower:

 

”After completion, the tower is expected to comprise of 9% office space, 6% restaurant space, 3% retail space and 80% residential.”

14 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

there are ways

the carew tower facade has nominal relief and a much greater percentage of fenestration, which negates these strategies. The first example doesn't look like a flood light, at least in the sense that  it doesn't nearly compare to what is needed for the tower. those lights were freaking bright, and had a lot of range.

Also, if these are to be residential, you'll get a lot more interior illumination from the building at night than when it was offices, giving the buiiding some presence. The carew exterior  is a heavily value engineered surface and really doesn't call for exterior lights imo.

21 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

I thought about that but then I remembered there are ways to floodlight it without getting into the windows.  For example...

 

BE77152_Hero.jpg?fit=fill&fm=jpg&w=600&h

 

131818331.jpg

 

Or

 

rawImage.jpg.72f307adcdbc554c9b1ecd70b7081e2e.jpg

 

I suppose I'm in the camp of having never been a fan of the building (or structures in general) being bathed in artificial light because of light pollution. We have two bridges near me that are lit in bright blue LEDs and on cloudy nights, you can see the blue hues for 20 miles in any direction. The Carew is also rather plain in appearance - it doesn't have much ornamentation or decorative brickwork that lighting would enhance. Something like what's pictured above at street level or just above street level would do wonders. No need to light up the upper 2/3.

Edited by seicer

Is this the biggest single office conversion in Cincinnati history? 

On 12/22/2023 at 6:05 PM, CincyIntheKnow said:

Have them rent storefronts? 

perhaps, but that those offices typically do not rely on foot traffic for walk ins and therefore, do not need to have the street exposure and pay that level of rent for street exposure. They can easily work on a 2-10th floor office setting, similar to your solo practice attorney. On some of these tower conversions, it would make sense for the developer to carve out a couple of floors above street level for a class B/C office space that can cater to these types of amenity businesses that get their clientele through appointment bookings instead of retail traffic (i.e. dentists, chiropractors, massage therapists, primary care doc,  allergist, orthodontist, etc.) 

Carew absolutely needs to be light up at night. The lighting doesnt affect inside as much as you would think. The exterior of my house is lit u like a weeding cake...no issues. Additionally, we don't hear about lighting issues with the contemporaries in CLE and CBUS which are also lit at night.

  • 4 weeks later...

Court grants summary judgment in Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza foreclosure lawsuit

TOM DEMEROPOLIS

By Abby Miller – Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 16, 2024

 

The Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza could be sold at sheriff's auction, following a court ruling in favor of the hotel’s lenders, unless the owner pays back debt to its creditors.

 

Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas Magistrate Anita Berding ruled Nov. 17, 2023, that the trustees may put the iconic property up for sale, if the hotel’s owner, Greg Power, did not pay the debt it owed within three days of the ruling, court documents show. An entry adopting that decision was signed by Common Pleas Judge Tom Heekin Dec. 15, 2023.

 

The ruling found Power had defaulted on a $72 million loan and the plaintiffs were owed $84.9 million, plus daily interest, from April 1, 2023. Until documents are filed initiating the sheriff's sale, Power has the ability to work out an agreement with the lenders that could avoid a sale.

 

MORE

3 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Court grants summary judgment in Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza foreclosure lawsuit

TOM DEMEROPOLIS

By Abby Miller – Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 16, 2024

 

The Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza could be sold at sheriff's auction, following a court ruling in favor of the hotel’s lenders, unless the owner pays back debt to its creditors.

 

Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas Magistrate Anita Berding ruled Nov. 17, 2023, that the trustees may put the iconic property up for sale, if the hotel’s owner, Greg Power, did not pay the debt it owed within three days of the ruling, court documents show. An entry adopting that decision was signed by Common Pleas Judge Tom Heekin Dec. 15, 2023.

 

The ruling found Power had defaulted on a $72 million loan and the plaintiffs were owed $84.9 million, plus daily interest, from April 1, 2023. Until documents are filed initiating the sheriff's sale, Power has the ability to work out an agreement with the lenders that could avoid a sale.

 

MORE

Prolly seems unlikely but what would be the odds that they announce that the new convention center hotel will be a Hilton and when it opens the Carew one will close and be turned into apartments.

32 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Prolly seems unlikely but what would be the odds that they announce that the new convention center hotel will be a Hilton and when it opens the Carew one will close and be turned into apartments.

Very, very likely. Hilton seems to love being in the convention business (i.e. Columbus, Cleveland). Both are new towers as well.

I would not mind the Hilton brand moving to the new convention hotel, but losing the Netherland--the grandest historic hotel in the state--to private apartments would be a sad thing. There are plenty of other hotel flags for the Netherland, and plenty of demand for the rooms.

The rooms in the Hilton are super outdated and need to be updated.  It's common areas are really cool but the rooms are bad, and this was 4 1/2 years ago.  So if it's going to stay a hotel it needs a lot of money to bring it up to modern standards. 

13 hours ago, columbus17 said:

Very, very likely. Hilton seems to love being in the convention business (i.e. Columbus, Cleveland). Both are new towers as well.


I don’t at all see The Hilton Netherland becoming apartments. New owners would most likely renovate and find another hotel partner. That building especially its grand public spaces like Palm Court etc and historic status make it an unlikely apartment project. The Carew Tower Side which was offices is a different matter and makes sense that it’s now headed to apartments. 

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:


I don’t at all see The Hilton Netherland becoming apartments. New owners would most likely renovate and find another hotel partner. That building especially its grand public spaces like Palm Court etc and historic status make it an unlikely apartment project. The Carew Tower Side which was offices is a different matter and makes sense that it’s now headed to apartments. 


I’ve been in the building a ton and It does need a big renovation that being said an apartment conversion would be much more expensive than a hotel renovation. Many of the hotels rooms are all different shapes and sizes and some very tiny even for micro apartments, they would need to basically gut all the guest room floors to make it work and I don’t see that happening. Side note: I’m not so sure the city itself would want to see the building switched to apartments for historic reasons and also its hotel stock of 500+ rooms being eliminated would not be a good thing. 

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

I don’t at all see The Hilton Netherland becoming apartments. New owners would most likely renovate and find another hotel partner.

 

Exactly. The Netherland Plaza would most likely remain a hotel but switch to a different brand. Or, if they did a nice renovation they could aim for a different Hilton brand -- I'm not sure if Hilton has an equivalent of Marriott's Autograph Collection, but that's the brand they often use for renovated historic properties

1 hour ago, taestell said:

 

Exactly. The Netherland Plaza would most likely remain a hotel but switch to a different brand. Or, if they did a nice renovation they could aim for a different Hilton brand -- I'm not sure if Hilton has an equivalent of Marriott's Autograph Collection, but that's the brand they often use for renovated historic properties

The equivalent to Autograph is called Curio properties by Hilton and the Cincinnatian already has the flag. This could easily become a tapestry by Hilton, LXR or Conrad with enough cash infusion. I don't think the new convention hotel will be a Hilton brand anyway Portman isn't big on Hilton brands... So if anything Hilton will just make sure the new owner is committed to the brand instead of taking the flag back.

18 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

The equivalent to Autograph is called Curio properties by Hilton and the Cincinnatian already has the flag. This could easily become a tapestry by Hilton, LXR or Conrad with enough cash infusion. I don't think the new convention hotel will be a Hilton brand anyway Portman isn't big on Hilton brands... So if anything Hilton will just make sure the new owner is committed to the brand instead of taking the flag back.


I’ve heard similar that Cincys convention hotel will not be a Hilton, things change but that was as of last summer.

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Author

Carew Tower lands $4.25 million in new state funding for residential conversion

 

Downtown Cincinnati’s iconic Carew Tower has added yet another source of funding to its capital stack for residential conversion.

 

Carew Tower received $4.25 million from the Transformational Mixed-Use Development (TMUD) Program’s latest funding round, announced Jan. 29. It was one of two Cincinnati projects to receive funds, alongside the Cincinnati convention center headquarters hotel.

 

Carew Tower’s owner, Anoop Dave, president of New York City-based Victrix Investments, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. He said at a recent real estate forum in November he believes Cincinnati is a market where residential conversions can work due to healthy rent growth and plenty of private equity, among other reasons.

 

The 49-story office tower will be converted into a mix of uses, chief among them 375 apartments and 10 short-term corporate housing units. The apartments will target high-income earners, but 20% of the units will be reserved for workforce housing, according to the project application. Rents are slated to be restricted, remaining affordable to those earning 80%-120% of the area median income. For a single person living alone that would be between $56,650 and $84,900, and for a family of four it would be between $80,900 and $121,300.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/01/29/carew-tower-tmud-award-residential-conversion.html

 

img7545.jpg

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

I see "roof deck" listed as an amenity, but hopefully that's a reference to one of the lower roofs of the base. I would really like the public money to be held for a publicly accessible observation deck and not have that one be treated as an amenity space. 

I'm not sure it's going to be possible to keep the observation deck when the building is all apartments.  If I lived there I wouldn't want random people coming through my building and through my floor all the time.  

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm not sure it's going to be possible to keep the observation deck when the building is all apartments.  If I lived there I wouldn't want random people coming through my building and through my floor all the time.  

 

 

 

 

They could do where you have to badge in your key to get to your floor and just have a button to the highest floor possible to get to the observation deck. I remember you have to climb some stairs to get to the top though so that may hamper them opening it back up as an observation deck. 

  • Author

...or just make one of the elevators an express one to the top floor and remove all the other floor button options.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

If memory serves, the elevator stopped 3-4 floors short of the top and you had to take the stairs.

7 minutes ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

If memory serves, the elevator stopped 3-4 floors short of the top and you had to take the stairs.

You are correct.  It was actually kind of a bizarre set-up because you were free to roam those few floors.  I was up there once on a weekend with one of my kids when they were younger and we were able to find an unlocked bathroom.

A renovation of this scale could update the building to have a new elevator take you to the top floor. This is a huge project, and if part of public funds depends on this being a community amenity, they would figure it out.

4 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm not sure it's going to be possible to keep the observation deck when the building is all apartments.  If I lived there I wouldn't want random people coming through my building and through my floor all the time.  

 

 

 

 

I mean John Hancock tower in Chicago and many many other buildings have elevators that are express to an observation deck without intermingling with the residents it passes along the way. They could extend one of the shafts, move the hoist beam and machines up to the roof level and replace the cable with a longer one. It would be expensive but not as expensive as building a brand new shaft all the way up and it wouldn't take up rentable floor area. 

 

EDIT: the other idea, which would probably never fly with historic even though its on the 'back' side of the tower is to stick an exterior elevator up the side where the windows are already filled in. Similar to the exterior glass elevators on Peachtree plaza in Atlanta or the Ruth's Chris tower in Louisville 

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Edited by ucgrady

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