NO 🤢 

 

A second outerbelt? Intel growth forcing Ohio transportation execs to think big

 

“The latest long-term discussion has been over the potential need for a second outer belt around Columbus, in addition to Ohio 270. Jim Roberts, chairman of the Grow Licking County infrastructure committee, said a consultant mentioned it at a recent meeting.
 

“It’s just kind of a vague concept now," Roberts said. "It’s an idea that’s out there.” Jack Marchbanks, director of the Ohio Department of Transportation, confirmed an outer outer belt has been discussed lately, but it's not a new concept.”

 

 This little tidbit is interesting, though:

 

”Jared Lane, the city of Heath director of building and zoning, said the southern part of Thornwood Drive, around Beaver Run Road, has become a focus.

 

“We’ve met with three foreign companies wanting to come to that area," Lane said. "There’s a ton of interest in that area.”’

 

Hmmm…

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2023/01/19/a-second-270-intel-forcing-ohio-transportation-execs-to-think-big/69812521007/

Ugh, ODOT is so one dimensional. Their solution is always to build more highways and expand highways. Columbus really doesn’t need more sprawl.

17 minutes ago, amped91 said:

NO 🤢 

 

A second outerbelt? Intel growth forcing Ohio transportation execs to think big

 

“The latest long-term discussion has been over the potential need for a second outer belt around Columbus, in addition to Ohio 270. Jim Roberts, chairman of the Grow Licking County infrastructure committee, said a consultant mentioned it at a recent meeting.
 

“It’s just kind of a vague concept now," Roberts said. "It’s an idea that’s out there.” Jack Marchbanks, director of the Ohio Department of Transportation, confirmed an outer outer belt has been discussed lately, but it's not a new concept.”

 

 This little tidbit is interesting, though:

 

”Jared Lane, the city of Heath director of building and zoning, said the southern part of Thornwood Drive, around Beaver Run Road, has become a focus.

 

“We’ve met with three foreign companies wanting to come to that area," Lane said. "There’s a ton of interest in that area.”’

 

Hmmm…

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2023/01/19/a-second-270-intel-forcing-ohio-transportation-execs-to-think-big/69812521007/

This is one of the dumbest things I've seen in a minute. It's 2023, you aren't building a bigger 270 lol. People kinda live where those roads would need to go. Think New Albany is going to be cool with a huge highway running through their town and not just on the edge?

7 minutes ago, TIm said:

Think New Albany is going to be cool with a huge highway running through their town and not just on the edge?

 

You think New Albany is going to let a huge highway run their town? Don't be ridiculous. There's plenty of open land to build a second outerbelt on, just like the open land that 270 was built on a half century ago. 

Ugh. This has idea been floated before, basically connecting the county seats in the counties surrounding Franklin. I think it's a horrible idea. 

7 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

You think New Albany is going to let a huge highway run their town? Don't be ridiculous. There's plenty of open land to build a second outerbelt on, just like the open land that 270 was built on a half century ago. 

What? A larger 270 would have to exist outside of 270 which would very much encroach on a bunch of towns just outside the outerbelt. This forum is becoming very contentious these days...

12 minutes ago, TIm said:

What? A larger 270 would have to exist outside of 270 which would very much encroach on a bunch of towns just outside the outerbelt. This forum is becoming very contentious these days...

 

You made a comment about a highway running through New Albany. I simply pointed out that New Albany is powerful enough to not let that happen. I'm not sure how that's contentious. 

 

With that said, I don't foresee a second outerbelt being built. It would be massive and take many decades to complete. I do foresee a connection being built near Heath between 70 and 161 though. Maybe in the future it will extend to 71N. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it extended south of 70 toward Lancaster, but that would be the extent of it. 

1 hour ago, amped91 said:

NO 🤢 

 

A second outerbelt? Intel growth forcing Ohio transportation execs to think big

 

“The latest long-term discussion has been over the potential need for a second outer belt around Columbus, in addition to Ohio 270. Jim Roberts, chairman of the Grow Licking County infrastructure committee, said a consultant mentioned it at a recent meeting.
 

“It’s just kind of a vague concept now," Roberts said. "It’s an idea that’s out there.” Jack Marchbanks, director of the Ohio Department of Transportation, confirmed an outer outer belt has been discussed lately, but it's not a new concept.”

 

 This little tidbit is interesting, though:

 

”Jared Lane, the city of Heath director of building and zoning, said the southern part of Thornwood Drive, around Beaver Run Road, has become a focus.

 

“We’ve met with three foreign companies wanting to come to that area," Lane said. "There’s a ton of interest in that area.”’

 

Hmmm…

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2023/01/19/a-second-270-intel-forcing-ohio-transportation-execs-to-think-big/69812521007/

 

I thought this was interesting from the article:

 

"Harrison Township Trustee Mark Van Buren said plans need to be made for the Ohio 158-Interstate 70 interchange and north on Outville Road in the township. He said two half-million square foot warehouses will be built on a 280-acre farm in the area."

 

Do we know what these two are?  Have they already been approved?

 

This highway proposal isn't entirely new, at least the Licking County portion.

I've come across a few things about an Ohio State Route 157 proposal that was (apparently, digging through old newspapers) on and off active in various forms since at least 1966. The initial proposal would have created a 25 mile limited-access highway going from I-70, along Thornwood Drive, to just west of Mt Vernon (the only full description I found is an all-text legal notice of the route, and is rather dense to follow). The divided portions of 13 in Knox and Richland counties line up with that corridor, not doubt related given I saw a divided 13 mentioned in the same legal notice.

Later articles from the 1990's-2000's show it truncated at SR 16 in Granville. This clearly got pretty far along, the land used for the Thronwood Crossing interchange was already owned by ODOT in anticipation of the 157 project. I think the proposal mostly died when the east/west 16/37/161 project happened instead, which (major concerns about sprawl aside) is probably much more useful than funneling all the traffic to I-70.

 

A second outerbelt seems like it would mostly just drive sprawl, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the 1990's version of the Rt 157 proposal is revived to better serve the growth already happening along present-day Thornwood - though I'd assume more like a parkway than divided highway. Maybe that is already happening, its hard keeping up anymore... There is already a lot of truck traffic along that corridor, which I assume will grow with Intel and it's probably better trucks from point east don't all use 37 or the other various 2-lane N/S routes.

Hopefully nothing more than that, but FWIW I could see a lot more value in a full N/S connector following the old 157 proposal versus another outerbelt. Not sure how useful it really is for where vehicles actually go, but I can certainly say from Granville we take the back roads if we are heading to Mansfield or Cleveland.

 

 

1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

 

You made a comment about a highway running through New Albany. I simply pointed out that New Albany is powerful enough to not let that happen. I'm not sure how that's contentious. 

 

With that said, I don't foresee a second outerbelt being built. It would be massive and take many decades to complete. I do foresee a connection being built near Heath between 70 and 161 though. Maybe in the future it will extend to 71N. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it extended south of 70 toward Lancaster, but that would be the extent of it. 

Yeah... that's why I said "do you think New Albany would be cool with a highway running through town?". The answer would be no, they would not allow it. New Albany is outside 270 which is where a large outer belt would need to go. You don't need to turn hypothetical highway discussion into arguments...

1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

 

You made a comment about a highway running through New Albany. I simply pointed out that New Albany is powerful enough to not let that happen. I'm not sure how that's contentious. 

 

With that said, I don't foresee a second outerbelt being built. It would be massive and take many decades to complete. I do foresee a connection being built near Heath between 70 and 161 though. Maybe in the future it will extend to 71N. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it extended south of 70 toward Lancaster, but that would be the extent of it. 

I think a 70->33 connector is already in planning stages, right? Also, New Albany wouldn't have to block a new outerbelt from bisecting it. It's only ~5 miles from the current outerbelt. A new one would surely be further East. Probably the SR310 corridor. 

9 minutes ago, TIm said:

Yeah... that's why I said "do you think New Albany would be cool with a highway running through town?". The answer would be no, they would not allow it. New Albany is outside 270 which is where a large outer belt would need to go. You don't need to turn hypothetical highway discussion into arguments...

 

I wasn't arguing. All I said was New Albany obviously wouldn't let anything go throw town, but there's plenty of empty land out there where the new highway would likely go.

1 hour ago, Luvcbus said:

 

I thought this was interesting from the article:

 

"Harrison Township Trustee Mark Van Buren said plans need to be made for the Ohio 158-Interstate 70 interchange and north on Outville Road in the township. He said two half-million square foot warehouses will be built on a 280-acre farm in the area."

 

Do we know what these two are?  Have they already been approved?

 

 

LOL I'm not sure, but the very first question that sprung to mind was, is Mark van Buren in a position to know about these because they're being built on his farms?  The van Burens owned a ton of land in Kirkersville and Harrison Township in the 1990s, at least.  My guess it they've held onto a lot of it, waiting for opportunities like this.  And of course he would favor expanding the OH-158 interchange on I-70.

 

Fun fact: Because a part of Kirkersville disincorporated recently, dissolving back into Harrison Township--and I think that might have included a sizeable amount of van Buren farmland--the speed limit going into Kirkersville from I-70 on Outville Rd. is now the 55 MPH default for a rural township road.  But the speed limit leaving Kirkersville on that same road towards the highway is 35 MPH because that side of the road is still in an incorporated residential area.

13 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

Fun fact: Because a part of Kirkersville disincorporated recently, dissolving back into Harrison Township--and I think that might have included a sizeable amount of van Buren farmland--the speed limit going into Kirkersville from I-70 on Outville Rd. is now the 55 MPH default for a rural township road.  But the speed limit leaving Kirkersville on that same road towards the highway is 35 MPH because that side of the road is still in an incorporated residential area.

 

I was wondering what that was about, and why there were so many 55 MPH signs on the northbound side. I didn't even know it was legal to have the speed limit split on a two lane road in Ohio, but good luck arguing about it in mayor's court.

 

It really stood out too. My only speeding ticket in the last 20 or so years was northbound on that section of Outville, I missed the lower limit and incorporation signs going into town (probably checking on the kid in back) and nothing about that section of road screamed 35 mph (I was doing around 50). The police chief was really odd too, acted like I was being done a big favor by "only" getting a speeding ticket (instead of what else, I don't know).

 

Yet people are driving 320mph only half a mile away

If farmers can kill turning 23 into limited access within weeks, you better bet that the right opposition would kill any chance of an outerbelt. 

 

Also, this probably belongs in highways thread. Yes, Intel Intel Intel. But central ohio has talked about it for decades and it comes and goes. 

I seem to remember Buck Reinhart talking about it when he was mayor.

20 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

If farmers can kill turning 23 into limited access within weeks, you better bet that the right opposition would kill any chance of an outerbelt. 

 

Also, this probably belongs in highways thread. Yes, Intel Intel Intel. But central ohio has talked about it for decades and it comes and goes. 

 

Perhaps most notably, and on topic for this thread: Does Intel even want that?

 

(ETA: This discussion was originally in the Intel thread, was subsequently split and moved here, so the "on topic for this thread" was written when this was part of the Intel thread.)

1 hour ago, Pablo said:

I seem to remember Buck Reinhart talking about it when he was mayor.

 

I'd have to do some digging but I believe you're right. I can't recall if it was something like 470 or 271 but I think I remember it had a specific designation already as well. 

 

Now, Columbus as of the 90s officially opposed an outer outerbelt as shown below in the 96 comprehensive plan. 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

Perhaps most notably, and on topic for this thread: Does Intel even want that?

 

I think intel will mostly care about getting freight in and out. They'll let the rest be handled by ODOT. 

 

Im 100000000% opposed but if the poeers will it into existence, any outer outerbelt needs to take the model of Texas and say, 'you get one free. But after that, you're extra outer belts are tolls roads. Pay for your own excessive travel needs'

 

But I think this is largely ODOT driven and other leaders whose jobs it is to plan roads and nothing else. Job security I suppose. 

I dream of an Ohio covered by overlapping systems of endless concentric high-speed highways. Beautiful dystopian edge cities would emerge at some of the places where the various systems would intersect, and every home and business would be within walking distance of a freeway or toll road. Of course there would be no more walking.

Well, this is just going to have to wait until ODOT, InDOT and MDOT finish six-laning the Toledo's Outer Outerbelt, the Future I-9090. 

 

 

(CU) Opinion: Building A Second Outerbelt Around Columbus Would Be A Huge Mistake

 

“You’re not stuck in traffic. You are traffic.”

 

I’m not sure who originally stated the above quote, but it’s one you see often repeated by transit planners who are fully aware that you simply cannot build your way out of traffic problems by building bigger roads.

 

But here we are in 2023 and we’re still trying to solve car congestion issues with antiquated, 20th-century traffic engineering solutions that amount to widening highways and not much else.

 

Ever since the $20 billion Intel semiconductor manufacturing plant was announced last year, there’s been hand wringing about potential traffic jams on those former country roads in Licking County, as new employees are expected to commute to those high-paying jobs in the hinterlands from all over the region.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/columbus-second-outerbelt-we1/

 

21 hours ago, mrCharlie said:

 

I was wondering what that was about, and why there were so many 55 MPH signs on the northbound side. I didn't even know it was legal to have the speed limit split on a two lane road in Ohio, but good luck arguing about it in mayor's court.

 

It really stood out too. My only speeding ticket in the last 20 or so years was northbound on that section of Outville, I missed the lower limit and incorporation signs going into town (probably checking on the kid in back) and nothing about that section of road screamed 35 mph (I was doing around 50). The police chief was really odd too, acted like I was being done a big favor by "only" getting a speeding ticket (instead of what else, I don't know).

 

There are a great many Ohioans whose only speeding ticket ever was in Kirkersville.  If New Rome had not existed, Kirkersville would have been New Rome.

12 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

Well, this is just going to have to wait until ODOT, InDOT and MDOT finish six-laning the Toledo's Outer Outerbelt, the Future I-9090. 

 

 

You need to look the canadian government in this and then have the Lake Erie bridge project to complete the loop so you actually create a true outerbelt.