Posted February 3, 20232 yr Downtown’s next high-rise to turn residential By Ken Prendergast / February 2, 2023 Downtown Cleveland’s next office-to-residential conversion project appears to be in the works. But this one might not be a total changeover to a new use. Ohio Savings Plaza, with more than a half-million square feet divided among two buildings has something big going for it — it’s half-filled with office tenants. Or, half-empty if you’re a pessimist. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/02/02/downtowns-next-high-rise-to-turn-residential/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 3, 20232 yr Always love when an entirely new thread on UrbanOhio emerges because Ken drops a bomb. Edited February 3, 20232 yr by ASP1984
February 3, 20232 yr Author Oh yeah, I should've teased you all with a bomb graphic. Too late now? 💣 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 3, 20232 yr Yeah - I'm thrilled for the development but can't help but remember the days when 9th and Euclid really bustled. Ameritrust, National City (HQ), Ernst & Young - further down the street East Ohio Gas, a more robust IMG, Ohio Bell etc. I guess the thing to remember is apartments aren't as vacant during work hours as they used to be - with so many folks working from home. Better downtown evolves as work and lifestyle do - and on that front, it seems it's doing pretty ok.
February 3, 20232 yr I’m probably too young to remember a E 9th Street with all of those businesses (I’m 31). Anyone have a good thread/pics to point me to to get a feel for what it used to be?
February 3, 20232 yr Pepperidge Farm remembers. East 9th & Euclid was a financial hub at one time with Cleveland Trust (aka AmeriTrust), National City Bank, Union Commerce, Central National Bank and a few others.
February 3, 20232 yr Well, I worked in the Ohio Savings Plaza in the mid-90s. Don't have pictures, but I definitely remembered that there were no "casual days" for dress. Downstairs was the Colonnade Cafeteria.....
February 3, 20232 yr Author Better to discuss nostalgia and share pics in the Cleveland Historic Photos thread... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 3, 20232 yr This is hard for me given my predilection for independent businesses over chains, quirky over corporate but in this instance l have to go against type. We need to stop this onslaught of replacing businesses with residents. I get that most of the old Class C office buildings were functionally obsolete for business and we needed to add to the population living downtown. Ok, as cities go we were way more successful than most. But this trend has swung too far to one side now. It's time for officials to work with business to keep the remaining ones downtown while incentivizing others to move in. Creative subsidies comes to mind. What else? The most vibrant U.S. cities are filled with workers. Business is the lifeblood. We need to create mechanisms to help them repopulate again. We already have organizations that advocate for the other groups (Cleveland Sports Commission etc.) that promote downtown activities. We need one for business before it's too late.
February 3, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, cadmen said: This is hard for me given my predilection for independent businesses over chains, quirky over corporate but in this instance l have to go against type. We need to stop this onslaught of replacing businesses with residents. I get that most of the old Class C office buildings were functionally obsolete for business and we needed to add to the population living downtown. Ok, as cities go we were way more successful than most. But this trend has swung too far to one side now. It's time for officials to work with business to keep the remaining ones downtown while incentivizing others to move in. Creative subsidies comes to mind. What else? The most vibrant U.S. cities are filled with workers. Business is the lifeblood. We need to create mechanisms to help them repopulate again. We already have organizations that advocate for the other groups (Cleveland Sports Commission etc.) that promote downtown activities. We need one for business before it's too late. All the reporting reflects that this is not just a Cleveland problem but a problem nationwide since the pandemic, both large and mid sized cities. San Francisco might be the worst of the lot.
February 3, 20232 yr Oh l understand that this is not just a Cleveland problem. As a fan of vibrant cities it pains me to see what is currently happening nationwide. I'm just saying we need to focus on helping our businesses to make our downtown their home.
February 3, 20232 yr Quote I’m probably too young to remember a E 9th Street with all of those businesses (I’m 31). Anyone have a good thread/pics to point me to to get a feel for what it used to be? This was from the early 80s when the Rose Bldg was Blue Cross Blue Shield, and their ground floor was filled with retail such as the Forum Cafeteria, Back to Eden Restaurant and the Front Page magazine/cigarette store at the corner.
February 3, 20232 yr 36 minutes ago, cadmen said: Oh l understand that this is not just a Cleveland problem. As a fan of vibrant cities it pains me to see what is currently happening nationwide. I'm just saying we need to focus on helping our businesses to make our downtown their home. Speaking my language. You should start a new thread!
February 3, 20232 yr Ha! I'll leave that to others but l am serious about the need. I'm an old hippie and not the corporate type at all. Corporations have done alot of bad things but they also provide good paying jobs and pay taxes. And they add mightly to the fabric of downtown. We need them. That being said, I'm not the creative type, not an original thinker. I make a better critic.
February 3, 20232 yr i would say somebody wanting to mixed use the ohio savings plaza buildings is fantastic news. its a great way to fill up the other half of the empty space and also make it more flexible and attractive. so yeah i disagree with disliking conversions of middling buildings, rather strive to keep them in use at all times. if there is some run on class B-C-D office space in the future someone can always slap up a few new cheapskate buildings to meet that need.
February 3, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Barneyboy said: This was from the early 80s when the Rose Bldg was Blue Cross Blue Shield, and their ground floor was filled with retail such as the Forum Cafeteria, Back to Eden Restaurant and the Front Page magazine/cigarette store at the corner. Way before my time in Cleveland, but I know a couple of people who lived in Reserve Square around this time. They tell me, yes the city was more bustling during the day, but desolate and dodgy af in the evenings. I’d absolutely love a more vibrant city during the day, but those days ain’t coming back and overall I’d rather have what we have now than then. My hovercraft is full of eels
February 3, 20232 yr Dodgy AF nights confirmed. There was a bar next to the lot across 13th street that was like the wild west.
February 3, 20232 yr Author It's pretty cool when a real estate brokerage likes and retweets an article in which you write that said brokerage has two bidders seeking to acquire a downtown office property and convert it into residential. That's what we call a confirmation. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 4, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, KJP said: It's pretty cool when a real estate brokerage likes and retweets an article in which you write that said brokerage has two bidders seeking to acquire a downtown office property and convert it into residential. That's what we call a confirmation. Sounds like they’re open to having more than two bidders lol.
February 5, 20232 yr On 2/3/2023 at 11:32 AM, cadmen said: This is hard for me given my predilection for independent businesses over chains, quirky over corporate but in this instance l have to go against type. We need to stop this onslaught of replacing businesses with residents. I get that most of the old Class C office buildings were functionally obsolete for business and we needed to add to the population living downtown. Ok, as cities go we were way more successful than most. But this trend has swung too far to one side now. It's time for officials to work with business to keep the remaining ones downtown while incentivizing others to move in. Creative subsidies comes to mind. What else? The most vibrant U.S. cities are filled with workers. Business is the lifeblood. We need to create mechanisms to help them repopulate again. We already have organizations that advocate for the other groups (Cleveland Sports Commission etc.) that promote downtown activities. We need one for business before it's too late. I very much agree with the sentiment of wanting businesses to stay downtown, but please no more subsidies. No more corporate welfare. And with the way the world is changing in regard to remote work, maybe the next best alternative is residential where there used to be office space. Perhaps this is the way Cleveland adapts. Hopefully, in time, there will be a trend back to the office and at that point office rental rates will be high enough to justify more Class A office construction.
February 5, 20232 yr On 2/4/2023 at 3:32 AM, cadmen said: The most vibrant U.S. cities are filled with workers. Business is the lifeblood. We need to create mechanisms to help them repopulate again. We already have organizations that advocate for the other groups (Cleveland Sports Commission etc.) that promote downtown activities. We need one for business before it's too late. Organizations with these mandates do already exist, primarily the Downtown Cleveland Alliance (https://downtowncleveland.com/office-relocation-expansion) and GCP (https://greatercle.com/).
February 5, 20232 yr Author 12 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: Sounds like they’re open to having more than two bidders lol. They might get another as a result of that article. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 5, 20232 yr If the Downtown Cleveland Alliance is the organization charged with helping to promote current and possible new businesses downtown then my question is how successful are they? Are subsidies used to help businesses downtown the answer? I don't know. I'll let smarter people than me answer that. But l do know that downtowns across the country are struggling with this problem. And because having businesses locate in a central downtown rather than in far flung suburbs is better for a number of reasons l think helping them to do that is very important. Shining light on the problem is a good start.
November 8, 20231 yr Author Ohio Savings Plaza has a buyer, plans By Ken Prendergast / November 8, 2023 NEOtrans has learned that the two-structure Ohio Savings Plaza in Downtown Cleveland has a buyer who has put the property under contract while its real estate team does its due diligence. NEOtrans has also learned that the buyer intends to partially convert the half-full, 500,000-square-foot. two-building property to residential. The larger of the two buildings, an 18-story tower at 1801 E. 9th St., is tentatively to be converted to apartments. The smaller building, called Park Plaza at 1111 Chester Ave. that faces Perk Park, will likely remain an office building. MORE https://neo-trans.blog/2023/11/08/ohio-savings-plaza-has-a-buyer-plans/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 8, 20231 yr ^ Ohio Savings Plaza is at the south end of the federally designated Erieview Historic District, an area bounded by Lakeside and Chester avenues plus East 9th and East 12th Street... Great views and I really like that district name. I think it's a great candidate for some kind of placemaking/branding. I don't think the "9-12" thing ever got any traction.
November 8, 20231 yr Great news - and the bottom line is - the more residents we can put into nice digs Downtown - the better.
November 8, 20231 yr 13 minutes ago, CleveFan said: Great news - and the bottom line is - the more residents we can put into nice digs Downtown - the better. Agreed, but having so much vacant office space downtown is rather disturbing.
November 8, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Agreed, but having so much vacant office space downtown is rather disturbing. I said something similar over the weekend and my friend countered: "And then, 5 years from now when 35,000 people live downtown and they need office space again... bye bye surface lots."
July 12, 2024Jul 12 Author Downtown dealmaking takes time, new approaches By Ken Prendergast / July 12, 2024 Although the real estate listing for Ohio Savings Plaza, 1801 E. 9th St. and its associated Park Plaza, 1111 Chester Ave., show their transaction status as “under contract,” it’s been that way for many months. It will retain that status for at least two more months. What’s going on behind the scenes reveals the complexities and even creative new ways of pursuing big deals in this market at this time. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/12/downtown-dealmaking-takes-time-new-approaches/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 2024Jul 13 23 hours ago, KJP said: Downtown dealmaking takes time, new approaches By Ken Prendergast / July 12, 2024 Although the real estate listing for Ohio Savings Plaza, 1801 E. 9th St. and its associated Park Plaza, 1111 Chester Ave., show their transaction status as “under contract,” it’s been that way for many months. It will retain that status for at least two more months. What’s going on behind the scenes reveals the complexities and even creative new ways of pursuing big deals in this market at this time. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/12/downtown-dealmaking-takes-time-new-approaches/ Please redo that ugly facade.
July 24, 2024Jul 24 ^ yeah, just take off the ohio savings sign and we’re clean and good. to enter dress in the full cleveland highly encouraged. 😎
July 24, 2024Jul 24 This is the building that I think would best handle a Target type of store Downtown in the near future. New apartments above, new and old apartments nearby, and if Centennial or Erieview ever happens, there are around 10k residents within a quarter mile walk and a lot of hotel rooms. Then a 1500+ space parking garage connected to it. Long term, getting something like that in Tower City is probably better with the transit connections and room for new development. Maybe one day we can be crazy and have 2 larger stores like this Downtown...
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